1. made the Orions. Gorn, Nausicaans, and Ferasans (possibly the Letheans) into vassel states, vastly increasing the size of the Empires armies, fleets, worlds, technology, etc... In the process, serious made the Empire vaster.
2. Likely took some extra territory from the Romulans as well.
3. Sort of victorious in their war with the federation in the sense of helping to free it of Undine Influence.
4. Won a series of proxi wars with the Iconians, both servitor races like the Elachi, Vaudwaar, Heralds, and manipulates powers like the Undine, Voth, Federation, Gorn, ect..., and ultimately gain peace with the Iconians in a war the Empire should never have won.
5. Shares the two Dyson Spheres with the alliance powers.
6. Defeated the Borg, Tholians, Feklri.
7. Increased relations with Gamma Quadrant Worlds
8. Helped create the Alliance
9. Has presided over the greatest advancement of Star Ship technology in recent memory
10. Gained technology from the future.
11. Defeated the Sphere builders and their allies, including the Terran Empire.
1. May be correct although IIRC only the Gorn were actually conquered, the rest paid to work for them
2. Is your own guesswork
3-11. Is all the stuff the Player Character did
J'mpok is an overall bad leader for the Klingon empire...
Sure he expanded it, but in doing so he pointlessly sacrificed thousands of warriors in a war he could not possibly win, and his reasons for doing so - preventing Species 8472 from infiltrating the alpha and beta quadrant - was so flawed that they STILL infiltrated even the Klingon empire (as seen in several federation missions).
He COULD have gone to the empires closest ally, and dropped a dead 8472 on the table, but no... Much easier to be offended, like a little spoiled child, and simply start a war... Mind you, the federation did not declare the war... They "simply" declined to help an invasion without proof...
There is no doubt that the Federation made a fatal error in judgement when it comes to the threat of 8472, but that does not excuse wasting a warriors life when there are more honorable ones to be fought.
Add to that, he has allowed dishonorable conduct to become a regular occurrence within the empire, attacking and destroying defenseless convoys and civilians on regular basis, something that even Duras himself would not do...
I mean Duras... This was the warrior who had Worf stripped of his honor, to cover for his fathers dishonor and STILL respected Worf's right for vengeance over his dead wife... Even HE would not simply engage without provocation (his sisters... lets just not go there).
Under J'mpok, the empire has been reduced to a dishonorable and untrustworthy empire, that is incapable of upholding it's own security and codes of conduct.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
J'mpok is an overall bad leader for the Klingon empire...
Sure he expanded it, but in doing so he pointlessly sacrificed thousands of warriors in a war he could not possibly win, and his reasons for doing so - preventing Species 8472 from infiltrating the alpha and beta quadrant - was so flawed that they STILL infiltrated even the Klingon empire (as seen in several federation missions).
He COULD have gone to the empires closest ally, and dropped a dead 8472 on the table, but no... Much easier to be offended, like a little spoiled child, and simply start a war... Mind you, the federation did not declare the war... They "simply" declined to help an invasion without proof...
There is no doubt that the Federation made a fatal error in judgement when it comes to the threat of 8472, but that does not excuse wasting a warriors life when there are more honorable ones to be fought.
Add to that, he has allowed dishonorable conduct to become a regular occurrence within the empire, attacking and destroying defenseless convoys and civilians on regular basis, something that even Duras himself would not do...
I mean Duras... This was the warrior who had Worf stripped of his honor, to cover for his fathers dishonor and STILL respected Worf's right for vengeance over his dead wife... Even HE would not simply engage without provocation (his sisters... lets just not go there).
Under J'mpok, the empire has been reduced to a dishonorable and untrustworthy empire, that is incapable of upholding it's own security and codes of conduct.
actually he pretty much did after find a whole bruch of undine in the gorn leadership after they, actually undine pretending to be gorn, picked a fight and feds called him a liar. the whole thing is a shining example of no good choices just varying levels a bad with no real way of telling if any other choice would be any better or worse.
though I agree J'mpok is not a good leader for the empire... though martok near the end of his reign was just as bad. actually I can't think of anyone currently in game that be a good fit. worf while a honorable warrior has chosen the federation over the empire in the past. any current leader would need to put klingon ideals first while not actually alienating the feds and RR. which would be interesting to see.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
He COULD have gone to the empires closest ally, and dropped a dead 8472 on the table, but no... Much easier to be offended, like a little spoiled child, and simply start a war... Mind you, the federation did not declare the war... They "simply" declined to help an invasion without proof...
There is no doubt that the Federation made a fatal error in judgement when it comes to the threat of 8472, but that does not excuse wasting a warriors life when there
Ahem. You might wish to peruse the STOWiki entries for 2400 and 2401. Worf went to the Federation Council with the Undine evidence and was ignored. That's a decorated veteran officer and ambassador, who understood Klingon politics better than most.
Then in 2401 we get this gem: "A contingent of retired and current Starfleet officers, including Ambassador Worf, Admirals Beverly Crusher, Kathryn Janeway and Chakotay and retired Captains Ezri Dax and Tuvok appealed to the Federation Council to reconsider its position on the Klingon-Gorn War."
In short, those who have served with the Klingons and have the most experience with the Undine warn the council and are again ignored. It's a level of wilful stupidity that is quite shocking. Whatever evidence the Klingons provided was enough to convince Starfleet's best.
Anyway, I stand by my theory that J'mpok's assault on the Federation was a carefully planned move to benefit both parties. Consider it; the declaration of "war" amounted to no more than border grabs and skirmishes. By Klingon standards, it's utterly trivial, but enough to unite the Empire's hardliners behind J'mpok and push the Federation into a higher state of military readiness... but it means that when the Borg and Undine resurface, Starfleet is already on a war footing. Meanwhile, J'mpok doesn't hesitate to commit Klingon forces and his personal troops, the Honor Guard, to a joint effort against the Borg even while the "war" goes on. J'mpok is playing the political situation masterfully; provoke the Federation enough to ready its formidable military, but do not engage in the sort of conflict that would significantly deplete both sides. And the second the Feds are willing to join forces fully... the "war" is over. It's exactly what one would expect from a veteran warrior who respects Starfleet but is vexed by Federation politics.
I honestly don't think that J'mpok is the cartoon monster often expected. The game's narrative can be read to show a farsighted leader who allies Klingon savagery with keen intellect.
The Klingons, for the most part, acted like Klingons-and reacted like Klingons, with the possible exception of being significantly more humane in their dealings with the defeated Gorn.
With the Gorn Confederacy defeated, the fact that they have a Gorn representing the Klingon Empire at every significant, diplomatic event is also a break from the norm.
Yes, even though S'Stass has his own agenda for the Gorn
Did we ever get an explanation of how he survived the assassination attempt in 'The Temporal Front'?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Maybe not the main target but if you are going to poison someone, you don't just give them a very bad stomach ache.
Maybe the Na'kuhl should have conferred with Kim Jong-un before the Mission.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
it could be they vastly underestimated a klingon's constitution and didn't use a strong enough dose of poison
it might not have been j'mpok either, but a double; someone pointed out that there were differences in the character model from what everyone was used to back when that mission first came out
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Well, maybe he has an iron constitution, would he be the Klingon Iron Chancellor.
Otto von J'mpock.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
1. made the Orions. Gorn, Nausicaans, and Ferasans (possibly the Letheans) into vassel states, vastly increasing the size of the Empires armies, fleets, worlds, technology, etc... In the process, serious made the Empire vaster.
2. Likely took some extra territory from the Romulans as well.
3. Sort of victorious in their war with the federation in the sense of helping to free it of Undine Influence.
4. Won a series of proxi wars with the Iconians, both servitor races like the Elachi, Vaudwaar, Heralds, and manipulates powers like the Undine, Voth, Federation, Gorn, ect..., and ultimately gain peace with the Iconians in a war the Empire should never have won.
5. Shares the two Dyson Spheres with the alliance powers.
6. Defeated the Borg, Tholians, Feklri.
7. Increased relations with Gamma Quadrant Worlds
8. Helped create the Alliance
9. Has presided over the greatest advancement of Star Ship technology in recent memory
10. Gained technology from the future.
11. Defeated the Sphere builders and their allies, including the Terran Empire.
1. May be correct although IIRC only the Gorn were actually conquered, the rest paid to work for them
2. Is your own guesswork
3-11. Is all the stuff the Player Character did
This all falls under J'mpok's watch as Chancellor. We as players are nothing more but trigger men to make these things happen. The accomplishments still fall under the leader's watch. For the same way IRL national leaders are revered for successful events, wars etc. even though they were not the ones drawing up the plans and pulling the trigger themselves.
And it wasn't J'mpok that was poisoned at the conference. There are tons and tons of KDF NPCs that look like that.
1. made the Orions. Gorn, Nausicaans, and Ferasans (possibly the Letheans) into vassel states, vastly increasing the size of the Empires armies, fleets, worlds, technology, etc... In the process, serious made the Empire vaster.
2. Likely took some extra territory from the Romulans as well.
3. Sort of victorious in their war with the federation in the sense of helping to free it of Undine Influence.
4. Won a series of proxi wars with the Iconians, both servitor races like the Elachi, Vaudwaar, Heralds, and manipulates powers like the Undine, Voth, Federation, Gorn, ect..., and ultimately gain peace with the Iconians in a war the Empire should never have won.
5. Shares the two Dyson Spheres with the alliance powers.
6. Defeated the Borg, Tholians, Feklri.
7. Increased relations with Gamma Quadrant Worlds
8. Helped create the Alliance
9. Has presided over the greatest advancement of Star Ship technology in recent memory
10. Gained technology from the future.
11. Defeated the Sphere builders and their allies, including the Terran Empire.
1. May be correct although IIRC only the Gorn were actually conquered, the rest paid to work for them
2. Is your own guesswork
3-11. Is all the stuff the Player Character did
This all falls under J'mpok's watch as Chancellor. We as players are nothing more but trigger men to make these things happen. The accomplishments still fall under the leader's watch. For the same way IRL national leaders are revered for successful events, wars etc. even though they were not the ones drawing up the plans and pulling the trigger themselves.
Except 85% of the time, it isn't even a KDF player character doing that.
1. made the Orions. Gorn, Nausicaans, and Ferasans (possibly the Letheans) into vassel states, vastly increasing the size of the Empires armies, fleets, worlds, technology, etc... In the process, serious made the Empire vaster.
2. Likely took some extra territory from the Romulans as well.
3. Sort of victorious in their war with the federation in the sense of helping to free it of Undine Influence.
4. Won a series of proxi wars with the Iconians, both servitor races like the Elachi, Vaudwaar, Heralds, and manipulates powers like the Undine, Voth, Federation, Gorn, ect..., and ultimately gain peace with the Iconians in a war the Empire should never have won.
5. Shares the two Dyson Spheres with the alliance powers.
6. Defeated the Borg, Tholians, Feklri.
7. Increased relations with Gamma Quadrant Worlds
8. Helped create the Alliance
9. Has presided over the greatest advancement of Star Ship technology in recent memory
10. Gained technology from the future.
11. Defeated the Sphere builders and their allies, including the Terran Empire.
1. May be correct although IIRC only the Gorn were actually conquered, the rest paid to work for them
2. Is your own guesswork
3-11. Is all the stuff the Player Character did
This all falls under J'mpok's watch as Chancellor. We as players are nothing more but trigger men to make these things happen. The accomplishments still fall under the leader's watch. For the same way IRL national leaders are revered for successful events, wars etc. even though they were not the ones drawing up the plans and pulling the trigger themselves.
Except 85% of the time, it isn't even a KDF player character doing that.
Doesn't matter. It is all under J'mpok's watch as Chancellor of the Klingon Empire. People hold up historical leaders up for their accomplishments all the time, despite them not doing the actual military planning and most definitely not the one facing the enemy in battle.
Comments
1. May be correct although IIRC only the Gorn were actually conquered, the rest paid to work for them
2. Is your own guesswork
3-11. Is all the stuff the Player Character did
Sure he expanded it, but in doing so he pointlessly sacrificed thousands of warriors in a war he could not possibly win, and his reasons for doing so - preventing Species 8472 from infiltrating the alpha and beta quadrant - was so flawed that they STILL infiltrated even the Klingon empire (as seen in several federation missions).
He COULD have gone to the empires closest ally, and dropped a dead 8472 on the table, but no... Much easier to be offended, like a little spoiled child, and simply start a war... Mind you, the federation did not declare the war... They "simply" declined to help an invasion without proof...
There is no doubt that the Federation made a fatal error in judgement when it comes to the threat of 8472, but that does not excuse wasting a warriors life when there are more honorable ones to be fought.
Add to that, he has allowed dishonorable conduct to become a regular occurrence within the empire, attacking and destroying defenseless convoys and civilians on regular basis, something that even Duras himself would not do...
I mean Duras... This was the warrior who had Worf stripped of his honor, to cover for his fathers dishonor and STILL respected Worf's right for vengeance over his dead wife... Even HE would not simply engage without provocation (his sisters... lets just not go there).
Under J'mpok, the empire has been reduced to a dishonorable and untrustworthy empire, that is incapable of upholding it's own security and codes of conduct.
actually he pretty much did after find a whole bruch of undine in the gorn leadership after they, actually undine pretending to be gorn, picked a fight and feds called him a liar. the whole thing is a shining example of no good choices just varying levels a bad with no real way of telling if any other choice would be any better or worse.
though I agree J'mpok is not a good leader for the empire... though martok near the end of his reign was just as bad. actually I can't think of anyone currently in game that be a good fit. worf while a honorable warrior has chosen the federation over the empire in the past. any current leader would need to put klingon ideals first while not actually alienating the feds and RR. which would be interesting to see.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Ahem. You might wish to peruse the STOWiki entries for 2400 and 2401. Worf went to the Federation Council with the Undine evidence and was ignored. That's a decorated veteran officer and ambassador, who understood Klingon politics better than most.
Then in 2401 we get this gem: "A contingent of retired and current Starfleet officers, including Ambassador Worf, Admirals Beverly Crusher, Kathryn Janeway and Chakotay and retired Captains Ezri Dax and Tuvok appealed to the Federation Council to reconsider its position on the Klingon-Gorn War."
In short, those who have served with the Klingons and have the most experience with the Undine warn the council and are again ignored. It's a level of wilful stupidity that is quite shocking. Whatever evidence the Klingons provided was enough to convince Starfleet's best.
Anyway, I stand by my theory that J'mpok's assault on the Federation was a carefully planned move to benefit both parties. Consider it; the declaration of "war" amounted to no more than border grabs and skirmishes. By Klingon standards, it's utterly trivial, but enough to unite the Empire's hardliners behind J'mpok and push the Federation into a higher state of military readiness... but it means that when the Borg and Undine resurface, Starfleet is already on a war footing. Meanwhile, J'mpok doesn't hesitate to commit Klingon forces and his personal troops, the Honor Guard, to a joint effort against the Borg even while the "war" goes on. J'mpok is playing the political situation masterfully; provoke the Federation enough to ready its formidable military, but do not engage in the sort of conflict that would significantly deplete both sides. And the second the Feds are willing to join forces fully... the "war" is over. It's exactly what one would expect from a veteran warrior who respects Starfleet but is vexed by Federation politics.
I honestly don't think that J'mpok is the cartoon monster often expected. The game's narrative can be read to show a farsighted leader who allies Klingon savagery with keen intellect.
With the Gorn Confederacy defeated, the fact that they have a Gorn representing the Klingon Empire at every significant, diplomatic event is also a break from the norm.
Yes, even though S'Stass has his own agenda for the Gorn
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
He respawned.
Or I suppose someone could've wave a tricorder at his corpse when we weren't looking.
Maybe the Na'kuhl should have conferred with Kim Jong-un before the Mission.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
it might not have been j'mpok either, but a double; someone pointed out that there were differences in the character model from what everyone was used to back when that mission first came out
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Otto von J'mpock.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
This all falls under J'mpok's watch as Chancellor. We as players are nothing more but trigger men to make these things happen. The accomplishments still fall under the leader's watch. For the same way IRL national leaders are revered for successful events, wars etc. even though they were not the ones drawing up the plans and pulling the trigger themselves.
And it wasn't J'mpok that was poisoned at the conference. There are tons and tons of KDF NPCs that look like that.
Doesn't matter. It is all under J'mpok's watch as Chancellor of the Klingon Empire. People hold up historical leaders up for their accomplishments all the time, despite them not doing the actual military planning and most definitely not the one facing the enemy in battle.