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Stealth Module Ruined
sparda100981
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
The stealth module.
This module has, ever since I started playing sto been one of my favorite modules in the game and one of the things I loved about playing a tac. I don't pvp in the game, have no time for it, nor any desire. So leaving that aside, in PVE and story missions, the stealth module was for me incredibly useful and has always been a must have for my characters. You could actually sneak around, sneak passed npc's if you wished, get yourself into a nice tactical position, search for your objective in one of the more manic and frantic battlezone maps, sneak in and save your fallen allies, the list goes on etc... Instead now you get a 15 second personal cloak if you're lucky, whats the point in that?
And in the name of what ye call balance, ye have taken that useful mod away from us, and it doesn't feel balanced at all, it feels like the scales have once again been tipped, and not in our favor. Ye have basically taken the stealth module and turned it into the Ambush Module! which does basically the same thing, just with a way higher damage percentage and a little less stealth percentage. So what ye have done, is ruined our good module and turned it into a lesser version of something we already had
Now I can understand, if ye didn't want people using Stealth Modules is the Arena of Sompeck, so disable them on that map!... And I imagine ye get people complaining about Stealth Modules being used in PvP, so disable them on PvP maps! Tacs can slot a different mod, like maybe the Ambush Module For example. But to remove the usefulness of the Stealth Module for these or any other reasons, is not balanced
Now I am not usually one to complain, but I am angered annoyed and I feel robbed by this latest change to something I loved in the game!... I apologize if at anytime I have come off as rude or offensive. And of course I don't speak for everyone, this is my opinion, and I am airing this as a personal grievance
Now the ability to attack after a few seconds of stealth is nice! saving you having to manually deactivate your mod is a real plus. The damage buff that comes with that is nice, but having your cloak only last a few seconds destroys the mods real usefulness. why not just have the 15 or so second damage buff and ability to attack clock a cooldown but have your cloak remain after that period has expired, so it can still be used, for scouting, tactical positioning and saving your allies etc?
Anyway, this is my rant over for now at least, I am not happy and I am sure a lot of ye are not happy with it ether
Kind regards to all
This module has, ever since I started playing sto been one of my favorite modules in the game and one of the things I loved about playing a tac. I don't pvp in the game, have no time for it, nor any desire. So leaving that aside, in PVE and story missions, the stealth module was for me incredibly useful and has always been a must have for my characters. You could actually sneak around, sneak passed npc's if you wished, get yourself into a nice tactical position, search for your objective in one of the more manic and frantic battlezone maps, sneak in and save your fallen allies, the list goes on etc... Instead now you get a 15 second personal cloak if you're lucky, whats the point in that?
And in the name of what ye call balance, ye have taken that useful mod away from us, and it doesn't feel balanced at all, it feels like the scales have once again been tipped, and not in our favor. Ye have basically taken the stealth module and turned it into the Ambush Module! which does basically the same thing, just with a way higher damage percentage and a little less stealth percentage. So what ye have done, is ruined our good module and turned it into a lesser version of something we already had
Now I can understand, if ye didn't want people using Stealth Modules is the Arena of Sompeck, so disable them on that map!... And I imagine ye get people complaining about Stealth Modules being used in PvP, so disable them on PvP maps! Tacs can slot a different mod, like maybe the Ambush Module For example. But to remove the usefulness of the Stealth Module for these or any other reasons, is not balanced
Now I am not usually one to complain, but I am angered annoyed and I feel robbed by this latest change to something I loved in the game!... I apologize if at anytime I have come off as rude or offensive. And of course I don't speak for everyone, this is my opinion, and I am airing this as a personal grievance
Now the ability to attack after a few seconds of stealth is nice! saving you having to manually deactivate your mod is a real plus. The damage buff that comes with that is nice, but having your cloak only last a few seconds destroys the mods real usefulness. why not just have the 15 or so second damage buff and ability to attack clock a cooldown but have your cloak remain after that period has expired, so it can still be used, for scouting, tactical positioning and saving your allies etc?
Anyway, this is my rant over for now at least, I am not happy and I am sure a lot of ye are not happy with it ether
Kind regards to all
Post edited by sparda100981 on
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Comments
Additionally, you suggestion of disabling the power would not have worked. It would leave any players who use it with one less kit power that they can rely on in these areas. And if they build around that power, then they're screwed.
I did state that this is my opinion and I am aware that not all share this opinion, all I am saying is that it could have been balanced in a better way than basically being taken away from us. As I said, I am not stating it in terms of PvP, but in PvE and story missions/battlezones etc It was far more useful they way it was, and something I for one made constant use of, for my own and my teammates benefit.
It was a fun aspect of the game, and one of the things I personally loved about playing a tac, and a big part of that fun is now gone. I am referring only to the Stealth Module and as stated it could be disabled on certain maps instead of just taken away all together, thats all I am saying
you don't lose until EVERYONE is defeated at the same time...so if someone is permanently stealthed and constantly moving, the other 4 could just be killing everything in sight, and even if they get knocked out, that 5th could pop out of stealth to rez everyone once the enemies reset and go back to their initial positions, then stealth up again
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I honestly don't believe was was being that rude, or really overreacting. But at the same time, I did not wish to cause offence or get anyone bent out of shape.
Take your favorite character, and their favorite module/power/ability... Then have someone say, we don't like how you use this so we're removing it from the game, totally deleting it, its gone, goodbye have fun.
That is basically what happened to the stealth module. It didn't get nerfed it got turned into something totally different. As stated it is now just a different version of the Ambush Module. They may as well have removed it givin us a different module and called it Different Ambush Module!
So they have effectively removed an ability which I and I can only assume a lot of people loved
I'm just going to point out a very very simple alternative that would have let cloak stay as is and keep the arena "safe" from cloaking exploits (if that was ever a concern for the devs.) Reduce the time to hit for lightning in the lightning round and/or increase the speed handicap from cloak. Major mechanics wouldn't have needed to be tweaked and it's a solution readily found through playtesting. One just thinks "hey, I'm cloaked and the lightning isn't hitting me!" and adjust small numbers accordingly.
The fact that Cryptic didn't do this strongly suggests that the changes made to cloaking module were made for ITS OWN SAKE, not the balance of a single temporary PVE playlist. Simply consider the amount of effort involved in making a new set of module mechanics versus shaving seconds. The new cloaking module [in all reasonable probabilities] has NOTHING to do with the arena. Come next week it'll have to stand/fall on it's own merits. It would be best for people here to focus on that if they want positive, constructive changes made to the game. Tin-foil hat arguments (or at the very least, arguments made by dubious supposition that relies on the assumption that the devs are lying about their reasons for adjusting stealth module) don't help deliver feedback.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And while that's all kinds of fun for stirring up players, it's also how you get your account tagged to be ignored by Developers.
Put your facts in order before engaging mouth. The people you're trying to convince have ALL of the data at their fingers tips and being of mathematical bent, tend to respond poorly to naked falsehood
tl;cr Putting three '!' in your title probably means you're doing it wrong.
For sure you put it nicely.
If they did not want people to cheat in this @#$ Arena event they could have just locked it out just for that event.
Why mess it up for the rest of us. Lesser nerfs in other MMOs have cost the salaries of many DEVs but here it seems a lot of complacency. Just wait till they take this to space and they start nerfing DPS or cloaking abilities to oblivion as well.
Shameful practice Devs and you could have your "precious" arena back and replace what was nerfed to complete uselessness.
I'm definitely with you on that loss of a tac power (15 sec vs infinite) and have already suggested if devs dislike having it on certain maps to give NPCs tricorder scan and restore it the way it used to be.
Expect me to vociferate on all things space, though, when those nerfs are coming in.
I'm strongly against a reversion (just to sound off for the opposing view). The old stealth module was mechanically clunky and there's very few situations where stealthing through an encounter is preferable to approaching it directly. Take cloak in a game like Deus Ex for example. That has very practical uses as emphasized by map design, AI, and combat. In STO the only comparable analog is the flanking bonus (maps and AI certainly aren't built with stealth mechanics in mind). And that's still a core part of the new stealth module. Its designed as a way of helping to set up a flanking shot and help in the moments following. The devs stated as much. The module is better integrated into combat now and it has applications in broad swaths of STO, not just a few choice scenarios where a player effectively volunteers to check out to avoid respawn mechanics or combat altogether (which is a null-gameplay scenario, however one looks at it.)
Space is a different matter, battle cloaking has a long and cherished history in Star Trek games and there's plenty built around it. But ground has its own mechanics to consider. IMO, the only thing the new stealth module needs is some minor number tweaking, perhaps increasing the stealth effect by a few seconds to give players just a wee bit more time to move and prepare (think active camo in Halo). Everything else about it is fine, the new stealth module is a welcome change (IMO) and I should repeat again that the question is not "oh, how do we make this work for the arena?" The strategies suggested are questionable (you're probably going to get pounded by one kind of AOE or another, this isn't a Borg STF) and the logic to the premise doubly so (in part for the reasons stated in my last post.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I say: don't get too comfortable with ANYTHING being the same for any length of time. Expect change, even on your personal favorite abilities/gear/content/traits and, recently, even the Skill Tree.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Ok, this is a MUCH better appeal to emotion.
It's also doomed.
You're not saying anything they don't know, and despite people's hysterics, an ability -- any ability -- has to be badly out of whack to EVER get changes at all, be they positive (buff), negative (debuff), or redesigned entirely. Small adjustments are rare because even when they're entirely warranted, Devs don't want to ruffle feathers. Especially in a game with a GEOLOGICALLY SLOW balance cycle like STO. This is in fact one of the most conservative and reactionary playerbases I've ever observed. And I blame it in no small part on them doing these kinds of reviews all of about twice a decade.
One of the problems is more often than not, the reason people declare something "their favorite" is because it vastly outperforms other options. "I LIKE BEING OVERPOWERED" is something Devs hear a lot, but it's not something that they can let entirely dictate their process.
Good abilities, genuinely good from a design perspective are ones that feel fun and rewarding, but aren't particularly strong. The true magic of good game design is "everybody feels cool and special, while everybody's performance is actually pretty average". In a 'IP-based game' like Star Trek Online that means it evokes the setting without being catnip for the min/maxers.
If you would, take a few minutes and think about what exactly it is you loved about the previous stealth module. The feel. The gameplay. If the joy was big numbers, that's probably something you need to let go. Ferret out if there's some quality about what you did with it or how it changed the way you thought about tackling missions.
If you can write that up, I'll show you how to present it so that you can be much more certain the Dev's have read your concerns and will possibly have it on their minds in a way could make them WANT to tweak this new version to feel more like that. Because beyond coding issues, and balance issues, they still want players to not feel disrupted and frustrated in the exact way you described very well in the quote above.
At Mk XIII Very Rare, Battle Strategies lasts 15 sec, gives a bonus of 28.8% ALL DAMAGE when attacking from any angle and has a chance to Expose if you are shot.
Right now, I can't justify putting Battle Strategies on my Tac because so many other modules out-perform it, so it seems unlikely I would ever put this new Stealth Module on.
Besides number tweaking, a stun/debuff if flanking might also help Stealth Module stand out more. Emphasize that first shot and prolog the benefit of the successful stealth setup.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Trajectory Bending gives you Flank damage and +60% Crit Severity from any angle.
Not much they can do with Stealth Module at this point. It's not bad, but no where near as good as lockbox stuff, which is why I most likely will never use it.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And hopefully by the end of this balance pass you have some idea how completely wrong you'd be in thinking that.
As designer, throwing your hands up and saying, 'yeah, we're just gonna grandfather every mistake we've ever made." is what you do when you're sunsetting a game. STO - miraculously - appears to actually be growing again with the introduction of the console versions. And to those people, these mistake haven't fossilized yet.
So you look to other effects, that's why I suggested stuns/debuffs as opposed to raw power. In STO, stealth module will NEVER be as good as a direct min-max offensive build the game's just not setup to handle the sneaky approach on equal terms to open combat (see. that reference I made back to Deus Ex. You've got to approach the whole game's design from a different angle.) The problem is just making stealth module fun enough for players to approach as a rewarding combat style in its own right. That doesn't necessarily mean giving it parity, more "making it functional." Old stealth module wasn't very functional, new stealth module is more functional. It can be even better with a few extra tweaks, ex. more stealth time and some added effects to accentuate basic impact the sneaky approach can have on combat (ie. setting yourself up to make your enemy more vulnerable.)
It won't equal other builds, not without a LONG drive of new traits, modules, weapons, combat scenarios, ect. but it may be something that can be taken more seriously.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!