I'd like to see this myself. A build using all white gear, no traits, no rep junk, no fleet junk, no specializations,...etc in a pug run doing 100k.
No pug run or they'd be relying on buffs. Ever since I stared playing this game I hear over and over how "easy" it is and new people are just "stupid". So I'd like to see it. Level 50, only regular gear, no rep gear, no fleet stuff, no traits from any later missions. no R&D traits no spec trees etc.
Only thing would be how to determine if it was a pug...someone in dps-diamond/75k/100k/etc. censuses their friends list, has a bunch of people join at the same time, and ends up with essentially a coordinated team.
I'm not sure I would even agree it's all about the "OP P2W OMG" lockbox traits and gear. In my opinion the biggest issues STO has in terms of lacking balance are a) a blatant favoritism for AoE abilities and b) a ridiculous amount of automatic health, damage immunity and regeneration anyone can get easily through the spec trees and the like.
Fully in agreement with this and the rest of your post.
I greatly dislike the lack of teamwork for anything other than team-wide buffs in this game, and the steady course it's been on every since DR away from a team based strategic game and into an AoE trash mob type fire on everything.
Receiving heals from dealing damage, all out damage immunity, complete self-sufficiency and I might as well play it as a single player game alongside NPC allies as the end result experience would be no different, or indeed a better experience since ally NPCs would at least follow mission optionals unlike average players now that can't even figure out ISA since the single player mission leveling aspect doesn't challenge them in the least or motivate them to learn how to work alongside other players or NPCs.
Every time NPCs get some new ability, there's new posts complaining that they can't beat said content because it's way too hard to figure out, say, Nakuhl invincibility has a tiny little something to do with that trail leading to a decoy ship, and to just perhaps try firing on that and see if there's an impact that might just do the trick.
Those asking for assistance on the forum isn't the problem, but I believe an otherwise silent majority cry out whenever Cryptic tries to make something more properly MMO, and they listen, perhaps out of fear of losing even greater number of players. This is what happens when you drive away PvPers who were the competent players by ruining PvP to the ground since DR and cutting all support from it!
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Of course, it's not just MKwhatever gear, there's so many things that contribute..... gear, traits, specs, space-assigned Doffs, Boff traits, the actual Boff skill slotted, consumables, ship settings & positioning... and the knowledge of how to actually use all of that properly.
Someone can have all Mk14 gold gear, but miss a lot of the other stuff & have TRIBBLE DPS.
Someone can copy an entire build (complete with the right doffs/boffs/etc), but not know how to use it right & have TRIBBLE DPS.
Someone can have white Mk X gear, supported by all the other junk, and use it properly, and have great DPS.
There's just so many factors involved that it's hard to point to any one thing and say "yes, THAT is what needs to be balanced!"
(that also means it's hard to teach new players, because there's so many things. The standard 'have matching weapons and tac consoles, and set your Weapon power to 125' advice is just barely scratching the surface.)
Whereas I see that as there's 20 places you can make small nerfs to things that contribute to the whole, none of them more than a few percent, but multiplied together being quite a substantial shave to the sum of the parts. And the more you distribute the changes, the less it affects each player that's not following every single part of the meta.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,159Community Moderator
Gear isn't the problem. Its people using a 5 man STF as a personal measuring stick to beat others over the head with.
If people want to know their DPS... they should run something solo, as THAT would be a better measuring stick of how they're performing. Not inflating numbers by getting help from a team.
SO you can get 100k in Infected... ok... can you do that in Japori or somewhere else without a team?
once again.. for those who maybe missed the previous posts and are still veering off topic; there IS a map in foundry to test DPS solo, its called DPSMark and I suggest you set your game options difficulty to "Advanced" for a relevant parse.
The Foundry mission DPS Under Fire on Elite is a good test too. It's one of the harder tests as well so very few submit their records for that. Also why I think they didn't use it to qualify for the 100k channel (needs a lot of survivability).
You should try it (though I hear the KDF version was missing).
once again.. for those who maybe missed the previous posts and are still veering off topic; there IS a map in foundry to test DPS solo, its called DPSMark and I suggest you set your game options difficulty to "Advanced" for a relevant parse.
Great! How do you find this map?! I traverse all sorts of system, and occassionally run into a few Foundry maps, or see several listed in mission queue, but never all of them.
and yet the vast majority of players can be defeated using nothing more than purple MK XII "junk" gear against their XIV golden nugget cookie-cutter ships. Devaluing special consoles won't solve anything. The problem is players with low skill/experience whining about players with high skill/experience.
Great! How do you find this map?! I traverse all sorts of system, and occassionally run into a few Foundry maps, or see several listed in mission queue, but never all of them.
press J to open mission window
go to "foundry" tab at top
select "browse all" from list at left
click the "top rated" dropdown arrow & a search field will open
type DPSMark into search field & the rest is straightforward
the entry point is inside ESD near the exchange (transporter room on Qo'nos for KDF)
As a general guideline, nerfs of any kind are bad. They alienate players and make them feel like whatever they invested into getting whatever was nerfed was wasted. Obviously there are exceptions for things that are outright mechanically broken, but cases like that should be uncommon at worst.
So rather than lower the ceiling, it's better to raise the floor. BFAW overperforming versus CSV or single-target skills when coupled with various buffs and consoles? Bring up CSV and single-target skills. As fast as a fully buffed BFAW can melt entire groups, theoretically BO or CRF should be able to cut through most of a group almost as fast, and certainly kill single targets much faster. Outside of mechanical benefits, making player powers and items better instead of worse makes players feel better.
The only people who could possibly complain about such a change would be those whose superiority feels threatened by the common man getting a buff. These people are human trash who should be ignored. My proposed changes would not invalidate or reduce 500kdps burst epeen waving, merely ensure even an idiot like me can do greater than 15k without having to do a lot of math, and on top of that even provide new avenues with which to acquire those big bursts. Imagine a 750k BO or a 550k CSV (both arbitrary numbers I pulled out of thin air but illustrate my point).
Gear isn't the problem. Its people using a 5 man STF as a personal measuring stick to beat others over the head with.
If people want to know their DPS... they should run something solo, as THAT would be a better measuring stick of how they're performing. Not inflating numbers by getting help from a team.
SO you can get 100k in Infected... ok... can you do that in Japori or somewhere else without a team?
Of course they can't...why do you think they use the easiest starter stf with the most bunched up mobs in the game?
Now if they would make things immune to damage instead of it instantly regenerating damage maybe it wouldn't be so bad in there...I just choose to avoid Infected mostly these days.
Great! How do you find this map?! I traverse all sorts of system, and occassionally run into a few Foundry maps, or see several listed in mission queue, but never all of them.
press J to open mission window
go to "foundry" tab at top
select "browse all" from list at left
click the "top rated" dropdown arrow & a search field will open
type DPSMark into search field & the rest is straightforward
the entry point is inside ESD near the exchange (transporter room on Qo'nos for KDF)
Comments
Only thing would be how to determine if it was a pug...someone in dps-diamond/75k/100k/etc. censuses their friends list, has a bunch of people join at the same time, and ends up with essentially a coordinated team.
I greatly dislike the lack of teamwork for anything other than team-wide buffs in this game, and the steady course it's been on every since DR away from a team based strategic game and into an AoE trash mob type fire on everything.
Receiving heals from dealing damage, all out damage immunity, complete self-sufficiency and I might as well play it as a single player game alongside NPC allies as the end result experience would be no different, or indeed a better experience since ally NPCs would at least follow mission optionals unlike average players now that can't even figure out ISA since the single player mission leveling aspect doesn't challenge them in the least or motivate them to learn how to work alongside other players or NPCs.
Every time NPCs get some new ability, there's new posts complaining that they can't beat said content because it's way too hard to figure out, say, Nakuhl invincibility has a tiny little something to do with that trail leading to a decoy ship, and to just perhaps try firing on that and see if there's an impact that might just do the trick.
Those asking for assistance on the forum isn't the problem, but I believe an otherwise silent majority cry out whenever Cryptic tries to make something more properly MMO, and they listen, perhaps out of fear of losing even greater number of players. This is what happens when you drive away PvPers who were the competent players by ruining PvP to the ground since DR and cutting all support from it!
Someone can have all Mk14 gold gear, but miss a lot of the other stuff & have TRIBBLE DPS.
Someone can copy an entire build (complete with the right doffs/boffs/etc), but not know how to use it right & have TRIBBLE DPS.
Someone can have white Mk X gear, supported by all the other junk, and use it properly, and have great DPS.
There's just so many factors involved that it's hard to point to any one thing and say "yes, THAT is what needs to be balanced!"
(that also means it's hard to teach new players, because there's so many things. The standard 'have matching weapons and tac consoles, and set your Weapon power to 125' advice is just barely scratching the surface.)
If people want to know their DPS... they should run something solo, as THAT would be a better measuring stick of how they're performing. Not inflating numbers by getting help from a team.
SO you can get 100k in Infected... ok... can you do that in Japori or somewhere else without a team?
You should try it (though I hear the KDF version was missing).
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Great! How do you find this map?! I traverse all sorts of system, and occassionally run into a few Foundry maps, or see several listed in mission queue, but never all of them.
He shoots he scores.
press J to open mission window
go to "foundry" tab at top
select "browse all" from list at left
click the "top rated" dropdown arrow & a search field will open
type DPSMark into search field & the rest is straightforward
the entry point is inside ESD near the exchange (transporter room on Qo'nos for KDF)
So rather than lower the ceiling, it's better to raise the floor. BFAW overperforming versus CSV or single-target skills when coupled with various buffs and consoles? Bring up CSV and single-target skills. As fast as a fully buffed BFAW can melt entire groups, theoretically BO or CRF should be able to cut through most of a group almost as fast, and certainly kill single targets much faster. Outside of mechanical benefits, making player powers and items better instead of worse makes players feel better.
The only people who could possibly complain about such a change would be those whose superiority feels threatened by the common man getting a buff. These people are human trash who should be ignored. My proposed changes would not invalidate or reduce 500kdps burst epeen waving, merely ensure even an idiot like me can do greater than 15k without having to do a lot of math, and on top of that even provide new avenues with which to acquire those big bursts. Imagine a 750k BO or a 550k CSV (both arbitrary numbers I pulled out of thin air but illustrate my point).
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Of course they can't...why do you think they use the easiest starter stf with the most bunched up mobs in the game?
Now if they would make things immune to damage instead of it instantly regenerating damage maybe it wouldn't be so bad in there...I just choose to avoid Infected mostly these days.
Thanks!