[PC] Balance Changes Coming to Star Trek Online

ambassadorkael

We're beginning the process of a balance pass on STO - check out the philosophy behind the changes, and a little bit of a preview for what you'll see on Tribble later today.

Full details here:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10402523

nebfab

What exactly "one pair at a time" means for Security Escort? Simply removing the doffs (and whatever else) that can give you more than that, or is it on a team lock-out now, like Tac Fleet?

EDIT: Other stuff: Stealth module: Do Want. The rest... Well, I'll wait and see how they interact with the other changes not announced yet.

risian4

That's very good news.

nccmax2

probably, when you call your SE, others can't. like we have in space whit tactical captains ability.

lucho80

@crypticspartan#0627 - Is ground the only thing being affected by the balance pass?

nebfab

lucho80 wrote: »

@crypticspartan#0627 - Is ground the only thing being affected by the balance pass?

The blog says space rebalance comes shortly thereafter:

The immediate changes being made are to ground combat, with a bigger set of space changes coming to Tribble in the near future.

lucho80

Keeping my eyes glued to the tribble release notes, but I'll be the first one to complain like crazy if balance = science nerf while DPS gets a pass like always.

nebfab

... And whatever the space re-balance would be, it would be either to quote B'Vat, "A glorious, glorious war!" or an equally glorious success... Possibly both.

I really hope that this whole thing would receive the same extended Tribble treatment Skills 3.0 got.

thay8472

How much grind will this add to the game?

sinn74

Is this going to address the hilarious "Tactical Captain or GTFO" state we've seen for all this time?

risian4

Oh and guys... you don't actually have to make the tac powers more useful. No need to compensate anything imo.

If I look at the Stealth module change for example, it actually seems like it will be buffed.

crypticarmsman

Translation:

Hi Lead STO Designer Captain (Al Rivera) Geko here. I'm using my associate designer to inform you of the great changes coming to STO so he can take all the heat and I can remain blissfully ignorant of the playerbase's response as it's just meaningless whining anyway. In a nutshell - if you remember "City of Heroes" I came up with a GREAT change known as 'Enhancement Diversification' because hey:

•Choices should be meaningful – Anywhere the game gives you a choice, there should be no choice that you always take nor one you never take.
^^^
That was the philosophy behind "Enhancement Diversification" in "City of Heroes" and I felt that idea worked so wonderfully for that game that I figured STO could use a version of it too. Enjoy. If you have feedback - don't bother; I'm not reading the STO forums anyway and what the CMs tell me goes in one ear and out the other...ENJOY!

nebfab

sinn74 wrote: »

Is this going to address the hilarious "Tactical Captain or GTFO" state we've seen for all this time?

It would better. Or the whole re-balance would be a joke.

lucho80

crypticarmsman wrote: »

Translation:

Hi Lead STO Designer Captain (Al Rivera) Geko here. I'm using my associate designer to inform you of the great changes coming to STO so he can take all the heat and I can remain blissfully ignorant of the playerbase's response as it's just meaningless whining anyway. In a nutshell - if you remember "City of Heroes" I came up with a GREAT change known as 'Enhancement Diversification' because hey:

•Choices should be meaningful – Anywhere the game gives you a choice, there should be no choice that you always take nor one you never take.
^^^
That was the philosophy behind "Enhancement Diversification" in "City of Heroes" and I felt that idea worked so wonderfully for that game that I figured STO could use a version of it too. Enjoy. If you have feedback - don't bother; I'm not reading the STO forums anyway and what the CMs tell me goes in one ear and out the other...ENJOY!

ROFL - Checking that out, seeing if I can figure out how badly they screwed up that game and how bad it will get here.

Edit: Aaaannnddd.... I just read what that was all about. Can I be first? Doooommmm!!!!! Welcome to diminishing returns online. Science got hit with the nerf stick when the skill revamp hit (A 5%-10% hit on the high end, is still a hit) in the name of "normalization". Here we go again because that first hit wasn't enough.

nebfab

risian4 wrote: »

Oh and guys... you don't actually have to make the tac powers more useful. No need to compensate anything imo.

If I look at the Stealth module change for example, it actually seems like it will be buffed.

IMO, Stealth Module is something that ought to be buffed. Right now it and other ground stealth stuff are one big heap of wasted potential.

nebfab

lucho80 wrote: »

crypticarmsman wrote: »

Translation:

Hi Lead STO Designer Captain (Al Rivera) Geko here. I'm using my associate designer to inform you of the great changes coming to STO so he can take all the heat and I can remain blissfully ignorant of the playerbase's response as it's just meaningless whining anyway. In a nutshell - if you remember "City of Heroes" I came up with a GREAT change known as 'Enhancement Diversification' because hey:

•Choices should be meaningful – Anywhere the game gives you a choice, there should be no choice that you always take nor one you never take.
^^^
That was the philosophy behind "Enhancement Diversification" in "City of Heroes" and I felt that idea worked so wonderfully for that game that I figured STO could use a version of it too. Enjoy. If you have feedback - don't bother; I'm not reading the STO forums anyway and what the CMs tell me goes in one ear and out the other...ENJOY!

ROFL - Checking that out, seeing if I can figure out how badly they screwed up that game and how bad it will get here.

Edit: Aaaannnddd.... I just read what that was all about. Can I be first? Doooommmm!!!!! Welcome to diminishing returns online. Science got hit with the nerf stick when the skill revamp hit. Here we go again because that first hit wasn't enough.

I never played pre-ED City... But, although the players never quite got over it, looking at pre-ED and post-ED builds, I think it was objectively good for the game ... After they introduced invention gear, that is. ADD: Which, I think happened after Cryptic sold it.

revanindustries

Calling it now: the Tactical Initiative change is so they can release some DOff/trait/doodad in a Lockbox or some such that will make it work for the entire team again.

lucho80

I can't take a second accross the board science nerf so quickly after the skill revamp one when energy weapons damage went completely unaffected back then. It's been only a year (Heck, a bit less). Devs, please have mercy on science, we're only a tiny slice of the player base.

evilmark444

nevi1

Bring back team work that requires healing and tanking as well and not just full blown DPS. The game went so wrong with not requiring it that has to be fixed. No more "ALL DPS ONLY" balances.

This is Cryptic's chance to fix that and rebalance the game properly so you can actually choose to play a role you like and want to do rather then forced into a DPS only role which is what the game forces you into .

tobiashirt

sinn74 wrote: »

Is this going to address the hilarious "Tactical Captain or GTFO" state we've seen for all this time?

One can dream...you don't necessarily have to nerf tacs, perhaps more like side-grade (vs. upgrade) and delineate roles a bit more. Tamping down bfaw/fbp/gdf (+continuity/invincible) or changing their functionality would be a shortlist.

tobiashirt

lucho80 wrote: »

I can't take a second across the board science nerf so quickly after the skill revamp one when energy weapons damage went completely unaffected back then. It's been only a year (Heck, a bit less). Devs, please have mercy on science, we're only a tiny slice of the player base.

Not only unaffected, but massively increased...taking a 75-90k ship and getting it up to 130k on a regular basis with a 1-off 170k.

lucho80

tobiashirt wrote: »

Not only unaffected, but massively increased...taking a 75-90k ship and getting it up to 130k on a regular basis with a 1-off 170k.

I'm well aware of that part. My 14K DPS build all of a sudden was hitting 40K-50K DPS, but the scaling of abilities using drain skill were taken down a notch, even after they adjusted thing when we complained like crazy.

tobiashirt

lucho80 wrote: »

tobiashirt wrote: »

Not only unaffected, but massively increased...taking a 75-90k ship and getting it up to 130k on a regular basis with a 1-off 170k.

I'm well aware of that part. My 14K DPS build all of a sudden was hitting 40K-50K DPS, but the scaling of abilities using drain skill were taken down a notch, even after they adjusted thing when we complained like crazy.

ah, so something like '750 drainX = 400 flowcaps'? Tbh, I didn't do much with drain prior to the change, other than have ballpark figures about how much abilities were supposed to do.

Edit: realized what you mean, which is that DrainX gives +50% ability efficacy now for each 100 points, whereas FlowCaps used to give different amounts/scaling for different abilities. Are there any such abilities that are more effective after the change?

potasssium

Well, I'll wait and see what happens. The idea sounfs good, but the devil is in the details, and my judgement will be based on execution.

echatty

I always adopt a wait and see attitude when things like this happens.

Premature DooooooM! is no fun anyway.

davefenestrator

nccmax2 wrote: »

probably, when you call your SE, others can't. like we have in space whit tactical captains ability.

I just read it as you get a squad of 2 faster, stronger redshirts in place of the existing 4 weak ones. That's easier on the servers (half as many NPCs to control) and if their health is buffed they should also last longer.

lucho80

tobiashirt wrote: »

Are there any such abilities that are more effective after the change?

ROFL, nope, when the skill revamp hit, it was an accross the board nerf. Only things that got better because of the skill reshuffling were all control abilites that were not GW, TB, or TBR if I'm not mistaken since they could finally scale higher. Even those, I think got a slight adjustment after devs decided they were a bit too effective for their comfort.

claudiusdk

•A stealth module re-design to improve its general usefulness and unique feel. In its re-designed state, when you activate stealth module, you become cloaked; after a short duration, you can attack, gaining a damage buff while attacking from behind that lasts the duration the stealth buff would have, but ending the stealth early.

Sounds good so far, never been a bit fan of stealth and never really used it. So dunno how this affects people.

•Your captain now uses a combadge to communicate - many of the Command kit modules that used to just affect an area near you now affect your entire team, no matter how far!

OMG yes! No need to cluster together anymore. Love it~

•Tactical Initiative has also received a few changes - it now lasts longer, but cannot have its cooldown reduced, and only affects the caster’s kit modules. Those changes are intended to make it so that the Tactical Initiative remains valuable to use while active, but changes the amount of performance spike that non-tactical captains get due to tactical captains, and ensures that non-kit abilities designed around a long cooldown retain that balance point.

Eh, better last a great deal longer if it can't have its cooldown reduced.

•Security Escorts should now be more useful while in combat– they now move faster to keep up with you better, and hit harder while out, but in return players are limited to one pair at a time.

This one I kinda fear is gonna be a problem. As someone thats played around with that power a lot on a character, and even running with 3 purple doffs to make myself spawn a total of 8 Security Escort npcs to aid me and had a lot of fun with it.

"they now move faster to keep up with you better"
This has never really been a problem for me. Would rather have they lasted longer, as when they go out of combat they and dont have any other targets around, they then despawn rather fast.

"and hit harder while out, but in return players are limited to one pair at a time"
If we are only limited to one pair, they better hit a heck of a lot harder. And the old doffs that made more spawn should be repurposed into buffing them even further. Those 8 Security Escort npcs can do a lot of damage. Don't wanna see this balance become a nerf, when you claim they will hit harder.

tobiashirt

lucho80 wrote: »

tobiashirt wrote: »

Are there any such abilities that are more effective after the change?

ROFL, nope When the skill revamp hit, it was an across the board nerf. Only things that got better because of the skill reshuffling were all control abilities that were not GW, TB, or TBR if I'm not mistaken since they could finally scale higher. Even those, I think got a slight adjustment after devs decided they were a bit too effective for their comfort.

Hmm, that sounds about right...I remember seeing math after the change on what % up or down happened in each ability and concluding that the mix of them that I used would see an overall buff, so I kinda tuned out the other details of the normalization (which is exactly what it was, normalized the effect per point for skills, not a blanket nerf).

gradii

Healing and tanking is not the only form of "teamwork" possible. I hope the devs will continue to maintain STO as a forward looking game that eschews classic trinity ideas for something more fun.