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Why in gods name do we need 10 reputations?

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  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,413 Arc User
    dtrekkie wrote: »
    Moreover, there is way too much [...] unnecessary clickfests

    The clickfest is insane if you actually try to do it. Takes me ~2h hours each day at full speed running through 14 toons doing R&D, admiralty, and doffing, without counting doing stuff on the exchange, visiting fleet facilities, or turning in some simple reputations like Omega and Nukara, event dailies, or cycling ships on newer toons, nevermind running a quick ISA/CCA.

    More often than not now I still do it, then quit the game right away and play something else for the rest of the day, something fun that doesn't revolve entirely around clicking the same buttons 14 times over.

    That is a sure way to grind oneself out of the game altogether, and not enjoy the fruit of the farming - I still haven't even flown a few new C-store ships yet like the Fedternal or the Nebula.
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    I'll bite. Who out there in the big wide world of gaming do you think is doing fun endgame 'right'?
    Ive not seen it 'done right' yet. But there is 'better' than rep grinds.

    You know, there's a phrase for that: unrealistic expectations.

    Cryptic is a small house with very finite resources. The rep system is a downright generous solution to trying to leverage limited content to attract players for long stretches of time. Sorry its not novel experiences every 4.1 minutes, but its what they can do. I mean, we could discuss how much people are still going to snivel about grind in a massive procedural content blender like Star Citizen is threatening, but people tend to lose their minds around here every time someone so much as glances at the 142 million dollar behemoth in the room ;).
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,158 Arc User
    My character is a genocidal manic assigned to multiple task forces and seems to have the ability to time travel at her leisure. I'm the greatest threat this galaxy has ever seen /muhahaha
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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Learn to love the rep grind.
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  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    dtrekkie wrote: »
    Moreover, there is way too much [...] unnecessary clickfests

    The clickfest is insane if you actually try to do it. Takes me ~2h hours each day at full speed running through 14 toons doing R&D, admiralty, and doffing, without counting doing stuff on the exchange, visiting fleet facilities, or turning in some simple reputations like Omega and Nukara, event dailies, or cycling ships on newer toons, nevermind running a quick ISA/CCA.

    More often than not now I still do it, then quit the game right away and play something else for the rest of the day, something fun that doesn't revolve entirely around clicking the same buttons 14 times over.

    That is a sure way to grind oneself out of the game altogether, and not enjoy the fruit of the farming - I still haven't even flown a few new C-store ships yet like the Fedternal or the Nebula.

    Well to be honest, things like Admiralty and Doffing help with grinding. It's not like you have to do it, you could just play missions instead of doing these things. It's different from reputations as you sometimes need the stuff from that to play the game the way you want or for specific rewards.

    Perhaps you shouldn't treat it as something that has to be done, but something that can be a nice bonus.
  • potasssiumpotasssium Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    I have no issue with the Reps, much better than trying to get rare drops in STF's.

    I just pop into Borg and Tholian Red Alerts while Maruadering. Then toon jump while they are on cooldown. Borg and Tholian Red Alerts never get old to me. Can level ships while doing them. Get Marks, Dilithium, and a free transwarp across the map.

    Low key and relaxing, at least to me.

    To each their own.
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  • ash352ash352 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    The clickfest is insane if you actually try to do it. Takes me ~2h hours each day at full speed running through 14 toons doing R&D, admiralty, and doffing, without counting doing stuff on the exchange, visiting fleet facilities, or turning in some simple reputations like Omega and Nukara, event dailies, or cycling ships on newer toons, nevermind running a quick ISA/CCA.

    More often than not now I still do it, then quit the game right away and play something else for the rest of the day, something fun that doesn't revolve entirely around clicking the same buttons 14 times over.

    That is a sure way to grind oneself out of the game altogether, and not enjoy the fruit of the farming - I still haven't even flown a few new C-store ships yet like the Fedternal or the Nebula.

    This is more an issue of you feeling you HAVE to click through all those characters and less an issue of you NEEDING to click through all those characters. This same issue is what causes burnout in the first place. Players setup an unrealistic expectation that they NEED to do certain things on every character, and this is the case in every MMO not just STO. Do you actually feel like you want to play all those characters or are you just doing it because you MIGHT want to play one of those characters one day and being "behind" is too much to handle? This is why I try to keep the amount of characters I have low, even though I do run several characters in every MMO. You honestly don't have to do anything on more than one character, and I'm pretty sure you know that, however you're forcing yourself to do it for whatever reason and it's probably better to come to terms with that instead of being upset with the game itself.

    As for the main point that the OP brought up, they're not going to stop making more reputations. Several people have complained, including one person wanting to just get rid of all the currency, and yet here we are with one more rep on top of the others. (I will agree that elite marks should be part of the currency table for reps and not be an inventory item) The simple fact is the reputations are going to continue to happen because they're a way to give out gear at a reasonable time table that keeps people logging in to play. This, again, feeds into the above point, but you don't HAVE to do every reputation. You really don't. If you're feeling like there are too many, just don't do ones you don't like. I personally target alts to specific reps and only do those on those alts.

    If you look at games like WoW, they have HUNDREDS of reps. Their reps though aren't as important because the gear treadmill is locked behind raids/dungeons. STO locks the gear behind the reps and the dungeons are just there to provide you the materials to get the gear. It's the same system just turned a different way. You know why STO has a better system though? Your rep gear isn't going to be totally irrelevant in a year when the next patch comes out and releases the next tier of raids. You're also not going to replace every single piece of your gear when the next expansion comes out. I don't think people really grasp what the issues they're bringing up are really about. It's not the concept of the reps you're not liking, it's the concept of GRINDING and TIME GATING that you don't like. (Shocking note though, even games like WoW have time gates on gearing up)

    STO doesn't have another way to give out gear like WoW. They tried that with RNG drops and it didn't go well because people complained about the RNG. Now we have the rep system. Now people are complaining about the rep system. Be careful what you complain about, you might get something far worse.
    flumf wrote: »
    Mmo's require people to play them continuously for long periods of time in order to keep the servers running. due to this repeatable content and the need to grind it is the lifeblood of mmo game-play. Without those things no mmo could survive.

    Take the repeatable grind out of an mmo and people only log in when there is something new released and then take months long breaks, and only come back for a few days when the next new thing gets released. No mmo can keep running long term like this.

    Funny enough, GW2 operates on this same kind of principle. They release a storyline mission from the "Living World" now every couple of months, players log in and play it, grind out everything, and then don't log in until the next one. Some players keep logging in to grind out Ascended Gear and Legendary weapons, but for the most part there's really nothing to do anymore once you've finished the expansion, done the most recent living world mission, and already have a full set of Ascended Gear. Somehow they're still running just based off cashshop purchases, but large portions of the game are ghost towns and the new maps have noticeably less people in them a week or so after it's released. The combat is a lot of fun but they're a similarly managed company to Cryptic in that they're not that large so they're just doing what they can when they can. Funny since I actually prefer their combat over every other games ground combat I've played.
  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    Why in Gods name do you feel the need to do all 10 of Them ?..
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    My character is a genocidal manic assigned to multiple task forces and seems to have the ability to time travel at her leisure. I'm the greatest threat this galaxy has ever seen /muhahaha

    There is a point here. Why are most of these not just extensions of the Maco/Honor Guard system? Neither was created solely to handle the Borg after all. So making the other Reps/STFs be other divisions seems logical.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,413 Arc User
    running through 14 toons
    The only insanity here is you thinking you need 14 toons, and thinking you need to max all these things on them
    How many characters do you have?
    Having more characters is the only way to bypass dilithium limit, make the most of giveaways & events, bypass cool-downs, farm EC with crafting, etc.
    Clickfest across toons is a fairly efficient method to farm dilithium, and fully level characters to the point where XP becomes dilithium.

    Yes, we don't need any of these things to enjoy STO by playing what's fun and making do with what's given from that.

    I had fun farming, that's what I found to be efficient. Now, I'm doing the sane thing by cutting back because this is a sure way to grind out of the game altogether.
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  • edited February 2017
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  • lathaislathais Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    xyquarze wrote: »
    lathais wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    How do you define 'no real justification' for having advanced queues?

    They do nothing. They are not really for the newbies and people who don't want to gear up or learn the game, because those will be limited to Normal anyway - by their ships' abilities. They are also not for those who perform better, and don't nudge you into becoming better either.

    If they simply removed each and every Advanced queue, people would have to decide whether to do the Normal or the Elite versions. As a result, Elite would actually get played and the experience would be more like it was back when there were only the Omega STF's.

    I have felt in many games that having 2 levels of difficulty is already too much, but works well enough. 3 levels just makes things far too tedious. People will either progress through each difficulty, getting bored with the same content by the time they get to the third, or they will just pick the one that has the best reward/effort ratio and stick with that. Three different "levels" of the same content is kinda silly IMO.

    I actually like the three level system. There's normal to learn the ropes. There's advanced for somewhat more of a challenge. And there's elite to keep those guys away from my queues who somehow think that others are beneath them. (Oh, and also for some good players who like even more of a challenge)

    Yeah, just do away with the middle ground though and things are fine. Normal to learn the ropes and then Elite for more of a challenge. If the other people think people are beneath them, that's fine, form a group and use a private queue, no need to associate with the rest of us if that's how you feel.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Reps are easily filled (as opposed to, say, Spec trees). Their Traits' usefulness decreases as the number of rep slots remains the same, of course. But who knows, there's always some rep gear you can get out of it. And, let's face it, that Lukari armor is a must-have. :)
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    I'm hoping for at least 25 more before the game goes dark. Because like most things, more is BETTER.

    Each one is something to do. Each is new choices and new combinations. Don't want to do it? Don't. Not every build and captain needs every reputation track unlocked. and once you have one unlocked, the sponsorship makes them pretty trivial for the rest of your captains.

    Your mentally is why this game doesn't have a massive playerbase, nobody wants a rinse and repeat grindfest that you seem to be keen on.

    But they keep doing it anyway so anyone actually looking for excitement rather than "I gotta get the best gear mang!" only comes back every so often to play the new story stuff then leaves again.

    Grinding is part of MMOs. I myself don't mind grinding the marks and everything, but what I would like is a way to pay to remove the timegate from rep projects for older reps, whether that's a "Complete now for X Dilithium" button after you fill in all the contributions or a tiered C-Store service purchase, cause I really despise that aspect of STOs rep system.
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Section 31 (with actual PHASERS!!) and Mirror Universe Rebels.

    Make it so.

    (and add a Ferengi/merchants admiralty campaign that emphasizes credit rewards)
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    There is a point here. Why are most of these not just extensions of the Maco/Honor Guard system? Neither was created solely to handle the Borg after all. So making the other Reps/STFs be other divisions seems logical.
    The MACO/Honor Guard team up only happened becuase, during the Borg arc, the Feds and KDF were still at war, but still needed to team up to beat the Borg, so they both sent detachments of their elite forces to deal with the situation.

    Ever since the Romulan reputation though, the Feds/KDf have been in a quasi alliance(The Roms not allowing the two to fight each other on New Romulus, or the Dyson Sphere), with a full alliance appearing after the Undine attacks on Earth/Qo'nos, meaning its not just a small detachment of their elite forces dealing with it, but rather the nations as a whole.

    Paying attention to the plot can answer some of these basic questions.

    Okay so how does the plot I supposedly ignored explain Nukara?
    The war does not officially end till the Iconians are being faced after the Undine assault on ESD and Qo'nos. So why only elites in one area then never elites again? Oh and you are not one of those elites when you join. You earn your way in during the battles. So more the national support than just they detached their elite cadre's.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • edited February 2017
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  • lathaislathais Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    I'm hoping for at least 25 more before the game goes dark. Because like most things, more is BETTER.

    Each one is something to do. Each is new choices and new combinations. Don't want to do it? Don't. Not every build and captain needs every reputation track unlocked. and once you have one unlocked, the sponsorship makes them pretty trivial for the rest of your captains.

    Your mentally is why this game doesn't have a massive playerbase, nobody wants a rinse and repeat grindfest that you seem to be keen on.

    But they keep doing it anyway so anyone actually looking for excitement rather than "I gotta get the best gear mang!" only comes back every so often to play the new story stuff then leaves again.

    Grinding is part of MMOs. I myself don't mind grinding the marks and everything, but what I would like is a way to pay to remove the timegate from rep projects for older reps, whether that's a "Complete now for X Dilithium" button after you fill in all the contributions or a tiered C-Store service purchase, cause I really despise that aspect of STOs rep system.

    Yeah, the time-gate leaves new players feeling far behind. A way to "catch-up" would be great. Once a new expansion comes out, just remove the daily limits on the old reps and leave it there on the new ones. The new ones are still gated so that people can't get everything day 1, but those of us new to the game can just catch up without spending 40 days to do it.

    Now I know the counter argument to this is always, "Well I had to spend 40 days getting it, so you should to," but let's be real, if new players have to jump through hoops to catch up to where vets are, they will just feel left behind and move on to games where they can catch up quickly and easily.

    For newer players, you have to remove some of the barriers of entry. I am not saying that they need to be able to jump into the game and immediately have what everything, but some of those barriers need to at least be lowered a bit once the content is no longer new. Once it's no longer new, there is no longer a real reason to have it time-gated any more.
  • lathaislathais Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    accidentally quoted myself instead of editing, oops.
  • lathaislathais Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    and did it again, wow am I being stupid today.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I remember when they nerfed the rep powers one of the developers said, sure it may not be a big deal now but when we have 40 or 50 reputations the creep will be bad. He may have said hundreds. I don't remember. But it was a lot.
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  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    Okay so how does the plot I supposedly ignored explain Nukara?
    The war does not officially end till the Iconians are being faced after the Undine assault on ESD and Qo'nos. So why only elites in one area then never elites again? Oh and you are not one of those elites when you join. You earn your way in during the battles. So more the national support than just they detached their elite cadre's.
    What is there to explain? The Nukara wasn't situation wasn't as critical as the Borg one, so they had no need for MACO/Honor Guard, and the FED/KDF weren't working together on Nukara, hence the separate bases.
    feiqa wrote: »
    The war does not officially end till the Iconians are being faced after the Undine assault on ESD and Qo'nos. So why only elites in one area then never elites again? Oh and you are not one of those elites when you join. You earn your way in during the battles. So more the national support than just they detached their elite cadre's.
    Wrong, the war ends after the Undine attack on Earth and Qo'nos, meaning the entire Delta Rising Arc, which before the Iconian arc, has them in a formal alliance, which is referenced several times in Delta Rising.

    Also, you never technically join the MACO or Honor Guard forces, you never work your way in either, you just assist them because you have proven your badassery through all the previous arcs, and they let you use their gear in exchange for your help.

    You alone being sent to them them out is not some national support.

    Just checking so the titles for being a recruit, veteran etc means we were never invited in. And While there was a great flotilla we never saw them do a bloody thing. So if only the PC (And there can be only one.) was sent. Then what you are saying is that the Macos/Honor Guard want to join you. As you are the single greatest threat to the borg. Ahead of 8472. . . Actually I kinda like that idea..

    Uhm. So we agree when the war ended. But not the next act? Okay. I can accept that. I have seriously gotten about as far as removing the undine from Tuvok's mind. And I think the mission to make the undine ship sue for peace. So no comment on the Delta quadrant.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    Someone mentioned this, and I agree with his statement, you have the option but not required to do all the reps.

    I have 11 toons, All of them have dyson, maco, rommie and tholan reps completed. I personally do not see the need to complete the other reps. Does my decision mean that Cryptic has to remove the others? Nope, it is how I choose to play the game.

    The part of the game I enjoy the most is doffing. Moving through sectors and sending out my minions to spy on someone or find a rare item. If a rep was linked to more doffing options, I would for sure do that rep.

    I know some of my fleetmates do the reps for the dil, and it is funny when they complain about running the same STF for the 100th time to get those marks. In the end it is their choice.

    Make you choice.
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  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    Just checking so the titles for being a recruit, veteran etc means we were never invited in. And While there was a great flotilla we never saw them do a bloody thing. So if only the PC (And there can be only one.) was sent. Then what you are saying is that the Macos/Honor Guard want to join you. As you are the single greatest threat to the borg. Ahead of 8472. . . Actually I kinda like that idea..

    Uhm. So we agree when the war ended. But not the next act? Okay. I can accept that. I have seriously gotten about as far as removing the undine from Tuvok's mind. And I think the mission to make the undine ship sue for peace. So no comment on the Delta quadrant.
    Accolades and titles are largely 4th wall breaking BS that has no actual reflection on the game lore.

    Also, we very clearly see them do things in the Borg STFs.

    I like how often people seem to habitually lie and misrepresent things here, makes this place popcorn worthy fun.

    I request a minor apology. I may be wrong. But I am not lying.

    As to your points. Largely 4th wall breaking. I can see 'Moist' being a bit out there, agreed. But largely means you consider some to be properly in game and others not. What criteria do you have for fitting that in?

    "Very clearly see them do things in Borg STFs." Taken over space station. I do not believe was Maco. None at the temporal portal. One Honor Guard ship with a potential cure you need to defend. And the Klingon that asked you to help/join versus the borg queen. That is two. What am I missing? (Also that seems to be pretty much the Honor guard is involved. Where are the Macos?)

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
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