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make the borg great again

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  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,496 Arc User
    omgwtf1236 wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Give the Borg Feedback Pulse and some ability to once again adapt to energy weapons, then watch the rage. I'm am being serious too. In space they haven't been a threat for many years now.

    i would add an ability so they could assimilate your ship and use it ageist other people

    It would be interesting if the Borg assimilated the vessel from someone in the top 10 of the DPS league.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    omgwtf1236 wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Give the Borg Feedback Pulse and some ability to once again adapt to energy weapons, then watch the rage. I'm am being serious too. In space they haven't been a threat for many years now.

    i would add an ability so they could assimilate your ship and use it ageist other people

    It would be interesting if the Borg assimilated the vessel from someone in the top 10 of the DPS league.

    Monster Play for the Borg?
    Allow players to play the Borg ship in an STF.


    ---

    I would still start by moving all the Borg ships one NPC ship category up - use the cube model for the tactical cube, the sphere model for the cube, the probe for the sphere, and, say, assimilated shuttle craft for the frigate.

    Then they'd still be as easy to beat, but the Cubes would at least seem a bit tougher and closer to the late TNG era (First Contact).

    To make them tougher, I think one would need to look at their adaptation abilities in space combat. I don't want something like in PvE where you need to use some magic trick to remodulate your weapons.

    1. Each time a Borg ship takes damage, it gains a defensive adaptation counter. This counter increases damage resistance and shield hardness against that type of damage.
    2. Once it has reached a certain amount of defensive adaptation counters (regardless of damage type), the counters are consumed, and the ship enters regeneration mode.
    3. In regeneration node the ship is temporarily immune to energy damage and highly resistant to other types of damage, but cannot deal damage itself. When taking damage, it gains offensive adaptation counters. It also regains hull strength at increased speed.
    4. After a certain amount of time or a certain amount of adaptation counters are reached, the Regeneration Mode ends. The number of adaptation counters increase the bleedthrough and control effect strength of Borg abilities for a certain amount of time.
    5. Regeneration Mode can be used only once per 10 minutes for a Borg Cube. If Regeneration Mode has already been used, any time it would enter regeneration mode, the defensive adaptation counters are converted into into offensive adaptation counters once the trigger point is reached.


    The result is that you want to hit a Borg ship as hard as you possibly can with as little attacks as possible, and you want to avoid hitting any ships you can't overpower quickly, because it just makes them more dangerous (and they heal the damage off.)

    (And if you want to explain why the damage adaptation goes aways - of course your engineers are busy to remodulate all weapons to counter the Borg's current adaptation. While the Borg are busy analyzing their effect in battle and prepare a stronger offense, which you in turn will try to counter as their weapon modifications hit you harder then expected)





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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    omgwtf1236 wrote: »
    I think they should make the Borg the big enemy as it always was has in star trek right now they seem like the least worked on, their not as cool as they used to be.
    So i think we should give the Borg some love and make the Borg great again

    I strongly disagree. If we stick to canon the Borg were only an obstacle in the beginning when they were new in the TNG era. Later on we clearly saw a strong Star Fleet dealing easily with a Borg cube during First Contact. By the time of Voyager’s finale End Game we had a single Federation ship one shooting fleets of cubes on its own.

    Given the fact that STO is set in that time or even thereafter the Borg are implemented precisely as they should be.
    If we stick to canon the Borg have never been defeated by anything but a one-shot plot device.

    Starfleet did not "easily" deal with a cube during First Contact. They only barely managed to avoid being wiped out until Picard came in and conveniently heard the voice of the collective telling him of the magic spot to shoot at.

    And while Voyager blew up cubes left and right in the middle of Endgame, by the end of the episode the Borg had already adapted to the transphasic torpedoes, thus Voyager was unable to stop even a single sphere without letting it tractor them inside it first.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    Borg Tac Cube with battle cloak and superior borg drone traits?
    Enhanced Battle Cloak spheres that spam disintegration torps?
    Cubes that can regen in combat like they have a permanent hazard emitter buff?
    Assimilation probes that ram you and disable your ship for X seconds while your crew desperately fight to not be assimilated?
    A Unimatrix with like 16 weapons slots including a few superior Kinetic Cutting Beams and upgraded gold XIV borg plasma beams?

    yes I'd love to see the Borg given their own arc and some steroids
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    Some people already did with their computers.

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    warpangel wrote: »
    omgwtf1236 wrote: »
    I think they should make the Borg the big enemy as it always was has in star trek right now they seem like the least worked on, their not as cool as they used to be.
    So i think we should give the Borg some love and make the Borg great again

    I strongly disagree. If we stick to canon the Borg were only an obstacle in the beginning when they were new in the TNG era. Later on we clearly saw a strong Star Fleet dealing easily with a Borg cube during First Contact. By the time of Voyager’s finale End Game we had a single Federation ship one shooting fleets of cubes on its own.

    Given the fact that STO is set in that time or even thereafter the Borg are implemented precisely as they should be.
    If we stick to canon the Borg have never been defeated by anything but a one-shot plot device.

    Starfleet did not "easily" deal with a cube during First Contact. They only barely managed to avoid being wiped out until Picard came in and conveniently heard the voice of the collective telling him of the magic spot to shoot at.

    And while Voyager blew up cubes left and right in the middle of Endgame, by the end of the episode the Borg had already adapted to the transphasic torpedoes, thus Voyager was unable to stop even a single sphere without letting it tractor them inside it first.

    I remember it differently I guess but it was indeed some time ago. Thought Data or somebody else on the Enterprise bridge mentioned the Borg cube to be already heavily damaged when they arrived.

    And sure in End Game I could easily see the Borg doing what they do best. Adapting here and there and trying not to be blown up. But in the end didn’t they lose a trans warp hub as well as the entire unimatrix to a virus or something like that?

    Sorry there but nope. The Borg are victims in Star Trek and making them cannon fodder for DPS maniacs in STO is a fitting transition.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    omgwtf1236 wrote: »
    I think they should make the Borg the big enemy as it always was has in star trek right now they seem like the least worked on, their not as cool as they used to be.
    So i think we should give the Borg some love and make the Borg great again

    I strongly disagree. If we stick to canon the Borg were only an obstacle in the beginning when they were new in the TNG era. Later on we clearly saw a strong Star Fleet dealing easily with a Borg cube during First Contact. By the time of Voyager’s finale End Game we had a single Federation ship one shooting fleets of cubes on its own.

    Given the fact that STO is set in that time or even thereafter the Borg are implemented precisely as they should be.
    If we stick to canon the Borg have never been defeated by anything but a one-shot plot device.

    Starfleet did not "easily" deal with a cube during First Contact. They only barely managed to avoid being wiped out until Picard came in and conveniently heard the voice of the collective telling him of the magic spot to shoot at.

    And while Voyager blew up cubes left and right in the middle of Endgame, by the end of the episode the Borg had already adapted to the transphasic torpedoes, thus Voyager was unable to stop even a single sphere without letting it tractor them inside it first.

    I remember it differently I guess but it was indeed some time ago. Thought Data or somebody else on the Enterprise bridge mentioned the Borg cube to be already heavily damaged when they arrived.

    And sure in End Game I could easily see the Borg doing what they do best. Adapting here and there and trying not to be blown up. But in the end didn’t they lose a trans warp hub as well as the entire unimatrix to a virus or something like that?

    Sorry there but nope. The Borg are victims in Star Trek and making them cannon fodder for DPS maniacs in STO is a fitting transition.

    He said the outer hull had sustained heavy damage, but in BoBW Commander Shelby states that a cube would still be combat effective even if 75% of it were inoperable, so damage to the outer hull is nothing
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    omgwtf1236 wrote: »
    I think they should make the Borg the big enemy as it always was has in star trek right now they seem like the least worked on, their not as cool as they used to be.
    So i think we should give the Borg some love and make the Borg great again

    I strongly disagree. If we stick to canon the Borg were only an obstacle in the beginning when they were new in the TNG era. Later on we clearly saw a strong Star Fleet dealing easily with a Borg cube during First Contact. By the time of Voyager’s finale End Game we had a single Federation ship one shooting fleets of cubes on its own.

    Given the fact that STO is set in that time or even thereafter the Borg are implemented precisely as they should be.
    If we stick to canon the Borg have never been defeated by anything but a one-shot plot device.

    Starfleet did not "easily" deal with a cube during First Contact. They only barely managed to avoid being wiped out until Picard came in and conveniently heard the voice of the collective telling him of the magic spot to shoot at.

    And while Voyager blew up cubes left and right in the middle of Endgame, by the end of the episode the Borg had already adapted to the transphasic torpedoes, thus Voyager was unable to stop even a single sphere without letting it tractor them inside it first.

    I remember it differently I guess but it was indeed some time ago. Thought Data or somebody else on the Enterprise bridge mentioned the Borg cube to be already heavily damaged when they arrived.
    Only its outer hull. Meaning a bunch of glowing spots on its armor. Without Picard, it would've finished off the fleet and regenerated.
    And sure in End Game I could easily see the Borg doing what they do best. Adapting here and there and trying not to be blown up. But in the end didn’t they lose a trans warp hub as well as the entire unimatrix to a virus or something like that?
    One transwarp hub. Out of six. The queen being killed by the virus is meaningless, she's died almost every time she's appeared on screen.
  • seriousxenoseriousxeno Member Posts: 473 Arc User
    I agree with the idea of moving up the Borg NPCs by one rank. Cubes feel too weak with too few weapons in particular (3 weapon slots, really?!)

    What I don't like is that in 20+ years since Endgame, they Borg barely changed at all. The only things that changed is that:

    - they now have V'ger-style command ships.

    - they don't ignore anyone anymore and just attack outright.

    - drones look like half-finished Terminators.

    But they sport no new abilities, no adaption mechanic in space, no other ship designs or weapons that show they advanced in any meaningful way.

    Considering all it takes to fully counter everything a Borg ship can throw at you is Hazard Emitters + Tactical Team they are one of STO's easiest opponents.

    +1 for a much needed Borg revamp! The whole incident with the Krenim timeship is the perfect excuse to do so!
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    +1 for a much needed Borg revamp! The whole incident with the Krenim timeship is the perfect excuse to do so!
    Except that whole timeline was reset in the end, meaning the Borgs are back to being exactly as they were.

    Not the WHOLE timeline ... we did pretty much exterminate the sphere builders in the process ...
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    +1 for a much needed Borg revamp! The whole incident with the Krenim timeship is the perfect excuse to do so!
    Except that whole timeline was reset in the end, meaning the Borgs are back to being exactly as they were.
    Except we don't actually need an excuse to buff the Borg. In Voyager, even a few loose nanoprobes finding their way into a 29th century mobile holoemitter produced a super drone. All it would take is assimilating any one of the massive amount of supertech floating around in the game and they're ready to go.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    +1 for a much needed Borg revamp! The whole incident with the Krenim timeship is the perfect excuse to do so!
    Except that whole timeline was reset in the end, meaning the Borgs are back to being exactly as they were.
    Except we don't actually need an excuse to buff the Borg. In Voyager, even a few loose nanoprobes finding their way into a 29th century mobile holoemitter produced a super drone. All it would take is assimilating any one of the massive amount of supertech floating around in the game and they're ready to go.

    I've been wanting to see assimilated herald ships ever since the Iconian war, seems like that would be a great way to do this
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  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 6,016 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    omgwtf1236 wrote: »
    I think they should make the Borg the big enemy as it always was has in star trek right now they seem like the least worked on, their not as cool as they used to be.
    So i think we should give the Borg some love and make the Borg great again

    I strongly disagree. If we stick to canon the Borg were only an obstacle in the beginning when they were new in the TNG era. Later on we clearly saw a strong Star Fleet dealing easily with a Borg cube during First Contact. By the time of Voyager’s finale End Game we had a single Federation ship one shooting fleets of cubes on its own.

    Given the fact that STO is set in that time or even thereafter the Borg are implemented precisely as they should be.
    If we stick to canon the Borg have never been defeated by anything but a one-shot plot device.

    Starfleet did not "easily" deal with a cube during First Contact. They only barely managed to avoid being wiped out until Picard came in and conveniently heard the voice of the collective telling him of the magic spot to shoot at.

    And while Voyager blew up cubes left and right in the middle of Endgame, by the end of the episode the Borg had already adapted to the transphasic torpedoes, thus Voyager was unable to stop even a single sphere without letting it tractor them inside it first.

    I remember it differently I guess but it was indeed some time ago. Thought Data or somebody else on the Enterprise bridge mentioned the Borg cube to be already heavily damaged when they arrived.

    And sure in End Game I could easily see the Borg doing what they do best. Adapting here and there and trying not to be blown up. But in the end didn’t they lose a trans warp hub as well as the entire unimatrix to a virus or something like that?

    Sorry there but nope. The Borg are victims in Star Trek and making them cannon fodder for DPS maniacs in STO is a fitting transition.

    He said the outer hull had sustained heavy damage, but in BoBW Commander Shelby states that a cube would still be combat effective even if 75% of it were inoperable, so damage to the outer hull is nothing

    It was 78% not 75%
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      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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    • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
      I've been wanting to see assimilated herald ships ever since the Iconian war, seems like that would be a great way to do this
      The only known destroyed Iconian ships were in the Alpha/Beta Quadrants, near local space, an area the Alliance had driven the Borg from some time ago.
      Incorrect. We ourselves destroy some in the Kyana system in the delta quadrant in the episode mission "Time in a Bottle."

      And as much as it may at times seem like the Invincible Player Character is the only one in the galaxy to ever successfully fight a herald, logically that can't possibly be the case.
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    • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
      warpangel wrote: »
      Incorrect. We ourselves destroy some in the Kyana system in the delta quadrant in the episode mission "Time in a Bottle."

      And as much as it may at times seem like the Invincible Player Character is the only one in the galaxy to ever successfully fight a herald, logically that can't possibly be the case.
      Ok, I did forget the Kyana system thing.

      But, I wasn't talking about the MC only, I was talking about the whole alliance.

      The Iconian invasion began and ended in local Alpha/Beta Quadrant space, and they focused almost exclusively on taking us out first because we posed the greatest threat to the Iconian's war machine other then The Dominion(who they were avoiding until after they conquered us and could use our resources for themselves)
      As far as we know.

      That still doesn't mean it's impossible for the Borg to have encountered a herald ship. Or to encounter one in the future. It wouldn't be difficult to write. There were heralds in the delta quadrant during the war and who knows what they're up to now.
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    • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,003 Community Moderator
      Bring T'Ket back as the new Borg Queen. >:)
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    • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
      Borg Tac Cube with battle cloak and superior borg drone traits?
      Enhanced Battle Cloak spheres that spam disintegration torps?
      Cubes that can regen in combat like they have a permanent hazard emitter buff?
      Assimilation probes that ram you and disable your ship for X seconds while your crew desperately fight to not be assimilated?
      A Unimatrix with like 16 weapons slots including a few superior Kinetic Cutting Beams and upgraded gold XIV borg plasma beams?

      yes I'd love to see the Borg given their own arc and some steroids

      The above would probably be a simple way using a mechanic already present (Undine have a built-in hazard emitter effect on at least some of their ships) to make the borg at least marginally more of a problem, although simply buffing regeneration would just encourage more mindless damage output. The regeneration could also come with a debuff cleanse, or the ships themselves could have some effect akin to the Iconian shield passive, representing them adapting to debuffs as they learn more about them.

      +1 to the idea of giving them fbp or something like it, to alter the flow of combat and encourage role/weapon diversity
    • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
      edited January 2017
      tobiashirt wrote: »
      Borg Tac Cube with battle cloak and superior borg drone traits?
      Enhanced Battle Cloak spheres that spam disintegration torps?
      Cubes that can regen in combat like they have a permanent hazard emitter buff?
      Assimilation probes that ram you and disable your ship for X seconds while your crew desperately fight to not be assimilated?
      A Unimatrix with like 16 weapons slots including a few superior Kinetic Cutting Beams and upgraded gold XIV borg plasma beams?

      yes I'd love to see the Borg given their own arc and some steroids

      The above would probably be a simple way using a mechanic already present (Undine have a built-in hazard emitter effect on at least some of their ships) to make the borg at least marginally more of a problem, although simply buffing regeneration would just encourage more mindless damage output. The regeneration could also come with a debuff cleanse, or the ships themselves could have some effect akin to the Iconian shield passive, representing them adapting to debuffs as they learn more about them.

      +1 to the idea of giving them fbp or something like it, to alter the flow of combat and encourage role/weapon diversity

      I propose using the suggested permanent hazard emitters, as well as permanent BFaW, and some frequent (but not permanent) feedback pulse (make some special borg FBP effects so it doesn't look out of place)
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    • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
      tobiashirt wrote: »
      Borg Tac Cube with battle cloak and superior borg drone traits?
      Enhanced Battle Cloak spheres that spam disintegration torps?
      Cubes that can regen in combat like they have a permanent hazard emitter buff?
      Assimilation probes that ram you and disable your ship for X seconds while your crew desperately fight to not be assimilated?
      A Unimatrix with like 16 weapons slots including a few superior Kinetic Cutting Beams and upgraded gold XIV borg plasma beams?

      yes I'd love to see the Borg given their own arc and some steroids

      The above would probably be a simple way using a mechanic already present (Undine have a built-in hazard emitter effect on at least some of their ships) to make the borg at least marginally more of a problem, although simply buffing regeneration would just encourage more mindless damage output. The regeneration could also come with a debuff cleanse, or the ships themselves could have some effect akin to the Iconian shield passive, representing them adapting to debuffs as they learn more about them.

      +1 to the idea of giving them fbp or something like it, to alter the flow of combat and encourage role/weapon diversity

      I propose using the suggested permanent hazard emitters, as well as permanent BFaW, and some frequent (but not permanent) feedback pulse.

      except borg would logically focus for effect, on one target, then move to the next not FaW
      tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
      tacofangs wrote: »
      STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
    • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
      tobiashirt wrote: »
      Borg Tac Cube with battle cloak and superior borg drone traits?
      Enhanced Battle Cloak spheres that spam disintegration torps?
      Cubes that can regen in combat like they have a permanent hazard emitter buff?
      Assimilation probes that ram you and disable your ship for X seconds while your crew desperately fight to not be assimilated?
      A Unimatrix with like 16 weapons slots including a few superior Kinetic Cutting Beams and upgraded gold XIV borg plasma beams?

      yes I'd love to see the Borg given their own arc and some steroids

      The above would probably be a simple way using a mechanic already present (Undine have a built-in hazard emitter effect on at least some of their ships) to make the borg at least marginally more of a problem, although simply buffing regeneration would just encourage more mindless damage output. The regeneration could also come with a debuff cleanse, or the ships themselves could have some effect akin to the Iconian shield passive, representing them adapting to debuffs as they learn more about them.

      +1 to the idea of giving them fbp or something like it, to alter the flow of combat and encourage role/weapon diversity

      I propose using the suggested permanent hazard emitters, as well as permanent BFaW, and some frequent (but not permanent) feedback pulse.

      except borg would logically focus for effect, on one target, then move to the next not FaW

      Haven't watched it in awhile, but wasn't the cube in FC shooting at several targets at once throughout the battle?
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    • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
      tobiashirt wrote: »
      Borg Tac Cube with battle cloak and superior borg drone traits?
      Enhanced Battle Cloak spheres that spam disintegration torps?
      Cubes that can regen in combat like they have a permanent hazard emitter buff?
      Assimilation probes that ram you and disable your ship for X seconds while your crew desperately fight to not be assimilated?
      A Unimatrix with like 16 weapons slots including a few superior Kinetic Cutting Beams and upgraded gold XIV borg plasma beams?

      yes I'd love to see the Borg given their own arc and some steroids

      The above would probably be a simple way using a mechanic already present (Undine have a built-in hazard emitter effect on at least some of their ships) to make the borg at least marginally more of a problem, although simply buffing regeneration would just encourage more mindless damage output. The regeneration could also come with a debuff cleanse, or the ships themselves could have some effect akin to the Iconian shield passive, representing them adapting to debuffs as they learn more about them.

      +1 to the idea of giving them fbp or something like it, to alter the flow of combat and encourage role/weapon diversity

      I propose using the suggested permanent hazard emitters, as well as permanent BFaW, and some frequent (but not permanent) feedback pulse.

      except borg would logically focus for effect, on one target, then move to the next not FaW

      Haven't watched it in awhile, but wasn't the cube in FC shooting at several targets at once throughout the battle?

      by and large it focuses on the Defiant until the Enterprise gets in the way.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPzJSBHG4pI

      on a diff note... do we have that bridge as an option??
      tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
      tacofangs wrote: »
      STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
    • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
      warpangel wrote: »
      Or to encounter one in the future.
      Are you implying The Borg still exist as a sustainable faction in STO?
      If Cryptic wants it to be, it is.
    • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
      I would not want to see the Borg be "the big bad" again, but merely improved up to where they are not push overs any more. I mean they could keep them challenging, and interesting enemy-wise in the game under the concept of them always attempting to assimilating/adapting continuously. The idea of maybe the Borg finding a one of the solanae/herald/Iconian spheres that were reactivated by the player during sphere of influence mission, or them attempting to fight their way into the pair of spheres that connect the beta and delta quad in an attempt to gain access to the omega particles an technology that uses/generates the omega particles could be an interesting story arc.
    • cayleercayleer Member Posts: 44 Arc User
      I think the Borg HAVE to be the big bad guy.. games tend to 'jump the shark' when they attempt to create new more powerful bad guys than the last and it just turns into a DPS fest just to watch Big Bad mob X get whittled down. OH the last bad guy had a mini nuke, the NEXT bad guy has TWO NUKES and so on and so on. I am actually surprised the Borg havent assimilated Iconian tech, I am kinda disappointed they haven't... or a Dyson Sphere yes!!!!
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