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Why are Engineers being neglected!?
velqua
Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
Recently, I have been running ground PvPs with my main character, which is an Engineer. In my encounters with other classes, I tend to fair about 1 kill per 30 to 50 deaths. My gear is typically Ultra Rare 14 or Epic 14. On various occasions, my traits are either towards a kill build or a tank build. I have used various Very Rare 13 kits with mods ranging from [Armor], [CrtH], [Kperf], [Shield], [Weapon], and [Will]. In addition, I have used Fabrication, Mechanic, Intel, Command, and Temporal modules to either boost damage, increase heal, increase resistance, or improve tactics. With all these modifications and setups, my Engineer still under performs against Science and Tactical characters.
Borticus, and other involved Developers, why are Engineers being treated this way? Why is it that a Science with Cold Fusion Flash, Exothermic Induction, and Anti-Time Entanglement is able to kill in 1 hit or a Tactical with Security Officers, Battle Strategies, and Graviton Spike is able to kill in a matter of a few seconds?
Yes, Engineers have abilities to deploy fabrications, mines, bombs, regenerators, and other devices. However, 1 or 2 seconds needed to deploy such devices is an eternity compared to the speed at which both Science and Tactical can deploy their abilities—especially Science. In those 1 or 2 seconds, the Engineer can easily be killed before the Engineer is finished deploying, which makes these devices useless. Even when they are deployed, the damage dealt is insignificant against the resists that both Science and Tactical have.
To make matters worse, Science and Tactical continue to get buffs and debuffs while Engineers get Shield Heals. At this point in the game, ground shields are virtually worthless. Shields on the ground are not like the shields used on a starship. In space, shields can provide a lot of defense, but on the ground, all it takes is 1 or 2 shots before they are gone. On top of that, there is a significant amount of shield penetration that the focus becomes keeping a character's Hit Points up. In space, Engineers can survive with high resistance and HP recovery; Science can keep their ships safe with their super strong shields—that keep shield penetration to a minimal. However, that is not the case on the ground as I mentioned.
If shields continue to be the focus for Engineers on the ground, make shields for Engineers as good as they are for Science in space—reducing penetration not only to Kinetic damage, but to Physical, Cold, Electrical, Fire, and Psionic. It should take 4-6 hits before shields should drop.
While on the topic of ground shields, I have noticed that all ground shields do not fully regenerate within their allotted time. Some stay stagnate at certain marks until a shield heal is implemented or until the shield is full depleted. My suspicion is that ground shields are glitched and partially broken when it comes to this aspect of their design.
Personally, I would like to see Engineers receive ground debuff removals and a few more means to recover HP other than through fabrication devices. At the moment, Phasic Shroud and Chronoplasty seem to be the only other HP recovery options for Engineers. Of course, one could use the 2-pieced Adapted M.A.C.O. / Honor Guard set for Adrenal Boost, but that requires the Engineer to restrict her/himself to a minimum of 2 pieces that are not as viable as they once were in ground PvP. Today, there are other gear options that would be much more beneficial than the battle-tested Adapted M.A.C.O / Honor Guard set.
And what about Hypos? Large Hypos are pretty much the only viable option for the Engineer. Using multiple consumable devices gives no advantage to the player since cool downs on those devices tend to be linked. The food boosters, prototype devices, and other consumable boosters are a limited means to help the Engineer since their timers tend to be a few minutes and are removed upon death, not to mention that they tend to take large amounts of resources to acquire. Even then, there are other devices like Shards of Possibilities or Temporal Flux Generator that would be much more useful.
Now, some may argue that ground PvP—or PvP in general—is dead. To some extent, that may be the case. That does not mean that the issue that Engineers have is non-existent. When it comes to Elite PvEs, Engineers begin to see the issues experienced by ground PvPers. I am not asking or begging for Engineers to be overpowered or to be at the top of the damage chain. What I am requesting is that Engineers be as balanced as Science and Tactical, meaning if you are going to make us shield dependent, make our shields work for us—give us the type of shields that Science have for space.
I chose Engineering because I wanted my character to be a “miracle worker” like Scotty, to be able to keep things together both in space and on the ground. Over the years, I have had to adapt to the changes. Luckily—in space—I was able to benefit from some of the power creep, but still, my character remains on the lower end of the DPS spectrum. I can live with that so long as I can work through the challenges of each PvE. However, ground—for the Engineer—needs adjustment so that even if we are on the lower end of any of the spectrums, we still have a fighting chance to win and not be so easily defeated with 1 hit from any of the other classes—especially if we are using Ultra Rare and/or Epic 14 kits, gear, and weapons.
Borticus, and other involved Developers, why are Engineers being treated this way? Why is it that a Science with Cold Fusion Flash, Exothermic Induction, and Anti-Time Entanglement is able to kill in 1 hit or a Tactical with Security Officers, Battle Strategies, and Graviton Spike is able to kill in a matter of a few seconds?
Yes, Engineers have abilities to deploy fabrications, mines, bombs, regenerators, and other devices. However, 1 or 2 seconds needed to deploy such devices is an eternity compared to the speed at which both Science and Tactical can deploy their abilities—especially Science. In those 1 or 2 seconds, the Engineer can easily be killed before the Engineer is finished deploying, which makes these devices useless. Even when they are deployed, the damage dealt is insignificant against the resists that both Science and Tactical have.
To make matters worse, Science and Tactical continue to get buffs and debuffs while Engineers get Shield Heals. At this point in the game, ground shields are virtually worthless. Shields on the ground are not like the shields used on a starship. In space, shields can provide a lot of defense, but on the ground, all it takes is 1 or 2 shots before they are gone. On top of that, there is a significant amount of shield penetration that the focus becomes keeping a character's Hit Points up. In space, Engineers can survive with high resistance and HP recovery; Science can keep their ships safe with their super strong shields—that keep shield penetration to a minimal. However, that is not the case on the ground as I mentioned.
If shields continue to be the focus for Engineers on the ground, make shields for Engineers as good as they are for Science in space—reducing penetration not only to Kinetic damage, but to Physical, Cold, Electrical, Fire, and Psionic. It should take 4-6 hits before shields should drop.
While on the topic of ground shields, I have noticed that all ground shields do not fully regenerate within their allotted time. Some stay stagnate at certain marks until a shield heal is implemented or until the shield is full depleted. My suspicion is that ground shields are glitched and partially broken when it comes to this aspect of their design.
Personally, I would like to see Engineers receive ground debuff removals and a few more means to recover HP other than through fabrication devices. At the moment, Phasic Shroud and Chronoplasty seem to be the only other HP recovery options for Engineers. Of course, one could use the 2-pieced Adapted M.A.C.O. / Honor Guard set for Adrenal Boost, but that requires the Engineer to restrict her/himself to a minimum of 2 pieces that are not as viable as they once were in ground PvP. Today, there are other gear options that would be much more beneficial than the battle-tested Adapted M.A.C.O / Honor Guard set.
And what about Hypos? Large Hypos are pretty much the only viable option for the Engineer. Using multiple consumable devices gives no advantage to the player since cool downs on those devices tend to be linked. The food boosters, prototype devices, and other consumable boosters are a limited means to help the Engineer since their timers tend to be a few minutes and are removed upon death, not to mention that they tend to take large amounts of resources to acquire. Even then, there are other devices like Shards of Possibilities or Temporal Flux Generator that would be much more useful.
Now, some may argue that ground PvP—or PvP in general—is dead. To some extent, that may be the case. That does not mean that the issue that Engineers have is non-existent. When it comes to Elite PvEs, Engineers begin to see the issues experienced by ground PvPers. I am not asking or begging for Engineers to be overpowered or to be at the top of the damage chain. What I am requesting is that Engineers be as balanced as Science and Tactical, meaning if you are going to make us shield dependent, make our shields work for us—give us the type of shields that Science have for space.
I chose Engineering because I wanted my character to be a “miracle worker” like Scotty, to be able to keep things together both in space and on the ground. Over the years, I have had to adapt to the changes. Luckily—in space—I was able to benefit from some of the power creep, but still, my character remains on the lower end of the DPS spectrum. I can live with that so long as I can work through the challenges of each PvE. However, ground—for the Engineer—needs adjustment so that even if we are on the lower end of any of the spectrums, we still have a fighting chance to win and not be so easily defeated with 1 hit from any of the other classes—especially if we are using Ultra Rare and/or Epic 14 kits, gear, and weapons.
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Comments
It's your favorite, and you want to have it being absolutely awesome, but they aren't giving it the attention YOU feel is right...
In fact, this game is so neglected, it shut down 5 years ago... It's just so neglected they forgot to kill the servers when the Devs were fired.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
That said, OP, the issue is PVP in general, not the class. PVP in this game is lame, weak, unbalanced, waste of time. If you want to PVP, this is not the game for you. Oh, and no, you will not change their mind, nor will they do anything about it as it will take a complete redesign of the game to achieve and well, we are too far into the game for that now.
Move along.
Site to Site Ensnare + Mine Barrier & other explosives = Happy Fun Time!
We need a PVP subforum so PVP can be ignored by us just like Cryptic does
And we all know how that went over. The brutality... the DPS spike...
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I actually tried that tactic. It worked 2 or 3 times before the person adapted. It's good if you catch the person off guard, but once they know, it becomes almost useless.
I really don't need to be "absolutely awesome". I just need to be less killable and more viable. I wouldn't mind some awesome love though.
Sorry... I've seen several kinds of cruisers stand toe to to with being pounded by 3-4 Escorts almost without taking a dent to the hull...
I've seen Engineers survive being overrun by bugs on elite Bug Hunt, using only skills...
I am not buying it.
Hi revanindustries!
Yes, I was on Otha. I tend to farm Otha for the Kit and Kit Module drops. Lately, I have had a lot of resistance from the KDF side and few Feds who know how to switch sides there. I have been using various methods to counter these guys, but their Sci and Tac abilities just seem to take me out so much. You are right about Sci and Tac being able to drop abilities on the run while Engs have to stay put, especially when it comes fabrication devices. As for "full fortress mode", it might be possible with a couple of Command modules. Last night, I tried using Force Field Dome and Medical Generator; Force Field Dome to boost resistance, and Medical Generator (with the DOFF to drop Shield Generator) to help heal me. The constant bombardment of Cold Fusion Flash, Exothermic Induction, and Anti-Time Entanglement--as well as Tricorder debuffs--make it nearly impossible to be a fortress, and that's just a 1-on-1 encounter with a Sci.
As for the Feedback Pulse module, there are two I believe. One deals Psionic damage and the other Plasma if I remember correctly. However, they only work for Energy damage and not Cold, Fire, or Physical, which makes those modules useless. Plus, the Sci I encountered uses a melee weapon. I would be interested to see damage reflected off a Crit Boolean attack. As for damage, Boolean seems to be the best at the moment.
Might be interesting against the elachi..
That's true but now kemo seems pretty mild compared to some of the awesomeness in the game today, like temporal abilities.
Actually, for Bug Hunt, all you need is high resist to Toxic. Biotech Armor tends to work best for me; you might want to try that.
As for Engineers, ground PvP may be the least played content in the game. The devs won't devote time (money) to it because it frankly won't produce worthwhile revenue. The best that you can do is change your tactics and if you can't cope, roll a sci or tac.
Even if they don't devote money or time in fixing the issue, I don't see why they couldn't attempt to address the issue when they create newer gear and items. As I mentioned, I would like to see a viable remove debuffer feature either using a kit module, Duty Officer, or Trait. That something that could be done in the future with newer content.
At least that's the rumor going around.
This thread sort of proves that, right?
If that's the case, what is so wrong with Engineers? Is it just harder to code for them? Is it harder to plan game mechanics for them? If this is somewhat true, it is sad to think that the Engineer would be tossed aside.
I get that Cryptic is focusing on profit by means of power creep, and that the bottom line is making a profit by getting people to buy. I would like to see something that would help balance us out. It doesn't have to be something that takes millions of man hours. I would settle for a Duty Officer that clears debuffs for Engineers when slotted. That already exists for ships. It would be nice for Engs. However, I do agree with you in that Cryptic would be less likely to work on something that does not benefit them directly or indirectly. One can only hope for something, but the reality is that--for the moment--ground PvP for Engineers will be a Mount Everest that only a few may see the pinnacle from a distance.
Yes, damage is important but we have so many kit modules that boost damage in a variety of ways. I want something that you notice like that Polaron Bombardment or the Herald kit modules that were really cool and visual.
Even though you are right with what you say I would like to emphasize around here again that a lot of power-creepy things which were issued the past 2 years did not cost at all but were for free.
- Skill Revamp (massive boost to literally everything)
- Trait Revamp (including the release of powerful free traits)
- New specializations (especially strategist and temporal operative push things much more than pilot or command officer)
- Free Event Ship Traits (Greedy Emitters and now Improved Feedback Pulse)
- Free Event Ship Gear (Timeline Stabilizer)
Other things were also handed out by means of regular game progression rather than the use of cash:
- Reputation Gear (Iconian Space Set, Terran Beam)
- Trait-slot unlocks (Research Lab Fleet holding)
- R&D System (Weapons with ideal mods, upgrades to mk14)
While there are surely ways to waist money to get the upper stuff faster it would not be very smart to do so as the alternative just means playing the game a bit which one does anyway.
Now it’s true that for each of this stuff we get expensive lock box, lobi and zen store items and peeps make use of them a great deal there as well. However if the whole purpose of power creep would be to generate revenue I really think cryptic would hold back much more elsewhere to force peeps to go for it which they don’t.
I really think that your theory is just part of the story with the other part being even more depressing:
The causal STO player is so extremely bad at playing this game that he needs to be given power for free in order to be able to cope with the content at all. And most of the more engaging content is still empty…
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Easier solution: Roll a tac, and just color the uniform in Engineer Yellow/Gold/Orange. You can RP as an Engineer, but be effective IN the game at the same time.
Boom! Hedshot!
I'm not entirely sure what Cryptic's overall beef with Engineers is collectively, but I'm guessing that there's still some bad blood left over from when Atari and its infamous no cups in the kitchen era was in play, and the software engineers were all top of the pyramid and the rest of the company resented them. But that's just speculation.
I think some of the issues are related to coding, too, but don't quote me. It's just time and time again devs on podcasts point out how the spaghetti code that Zinc and Emmert left them with is harder to understand than sanskrit on papyrus.
The game mechanics I'd wager a few quatloos don't affect this internal aggression against profession though. And while some in the ivory tower of cryptic let their emotions sway them toward ending engineers forever, cooler heads prevailed and AoY became an expansion, complete with a bold new faction that had engineers!
But keep in mind much of this is all based on pure rumor, speculation and parsing of podcasts and reading of tea leaves. It's all just so sketchy.
If I were you I'd either take heart in what engineering prowess you DO have, or strongly consider rerolling as a Tac and just RPing as an Engineer? The devs' hands are mostly tied on this.