The title is dumb enough that I didn't even make it to the description. That an that fact that it has Michael Dorn in it. I love him as Worf, but beyond that I've never seen him in anything else of worth. No wonder he was pushing so hard for a Worf-centric TV show. Man's gotta eat.
Never say never, but people have been asking for the Franz Joseph ships for years. Esp the Federation class. There are threads from 5 years ago asking if we can get it in game. The "reason" is the supposed royalties/licensing fees Cryptic would have to pay the estate of Franz Joseph to use his stuff. Personally, I find that hard to buy, as a) don't those copyrights expire after 50 years or something? b) even if they don't expire, it's not like Franz Joseph estate is getting much from royalties....so I can't imagine they would be asking a lot to use his designs. SEVERAL other Star Trek games used them, both board based and computer games. So the family IS WILLING to let them be used.......
I'm not sure. I Googled Bonaventure class and picked the only image not a cartoon or line drawing. If you search on Deviantart you may find one as well. There's a guy who's name I cannot remeber that makes models of TOS and TAS ships.
Wish it could be narrowed down a bit....DA is a BIG site, mind you. o.o;;
Indeed - and it's search engine sometimes leaves something to be desired!
no TRIBBLE...i spent weeks on that site trying to find an image i saw there years back using all manner of search words i could think of - never found it
course, i'm not 100% sure it was DA i saw it on, but definitely in the 90% range
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I love him as Worf, but beyond that I've never seen him in anything else of worth. No wonder he was pushing so hard for a Worf-centric TV show. Man's gotta eat.
TacoFang posted a couple of months ago that CBS specifically told Cryptic NOT to use any of the Franz Joseph designs.
SO, I guess we're in for another six years of the "NO T-6 CONNIE Syndrome" as far as this is concerned.
(YES, I think STO will still be around till then)
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As for the pics posted by Artan42, other than the freighter, they are the dumbest designs ever. And yes I know the Bonadventure is from TAS (along with the freighter - which was then put in the TOS remaster) and that the bottom design is an original (failed) concept for the Phase 2/TMP era. But, fugly is fugly.
It's this kind of thinking that (along with no ability to be consistent which is vital to a prequel) was the fatal flaw that doomed Enterprise. The Bonaventure IS clunky and homely, that's the freaking point! It's a midway point between the even clunkier and homelier Deadalus and the sleek lines of the Constitution. It's bulkier in the nacelles and engineering hull with less capability out of that extra bulk with much less usable space in the primary hull because it needed proportionally more engine to make it work. That's what less technologically advanced should look like, and why the Akira-prise was so criticized. It was sleeker and more usable space to engineering space than the ship that would replace it some 100-something years later! That's not how technological advancement works.
As unappealing as the Bonaventure looks compared to the Constitution, it makes PERFECT SENSE as an older, clunkier version of the design language. It's less advanced, and it shows. That's what designs that are intended to be older and less advanced should be like. Save the slick advanced stuff for later in the timeline and display the limitations of the older tech in the designs that are intended for earlier.
You seem to have forgotten that the NX-01 was much smaller in size and had about a 16th of the volume of the Constitutions.
And the engine room of the NX was no where near as complex as the engines of the 1701 which had two separate locations.
Older does not have to look "clunkier", it simply has to look as though it is an earlier design.
The NX was basically a WARP 5 Engine with a hull wrapped around it.
The Enterprise of TOS was a much more complicated design with a multitude of additional assets that the NX would never have been able to accommodate.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Love to see a HUGE, arrow typed saucer, with 4 nacelles close to the hull (Prometheus alike type, but NOT federation looking) as Klingon ship.
No other item on it.
Or MAYBE a pod, but...
Warship, of course.
6 front cannons, 2 aft turrets...
Oh, and locked type slots, so no option for non-cannon and turret weapons.]
It IS in the end a Klingon.
This maybe, but no Romulan, but Klingon "wings"?
Klingons don't get drunk.
They just get less sober.
Eh, the chances of us ever seeing any Franz Joseph or Animated Series ships is slim to none. Roddenberry went out of his way to declare all of that stuff non-canon when TNG was starting up.
The reasoning was probably a combination of clearing out any potential continuity snarls and to reduce the amount of royalties being divided from the shows profits. Star Trek writers have always preferred to make things up as they go, so having an extra layer of EU continuity is more baggage than most of them are willing to deal with. The studio side of things has always had a habit of taking steps to avoid paying royalties unless absolutely necessary, such as when Robert McNeill's TNG character Nicholas Lacarno was revised into Tom Paris.
However with Discovery being set shortly before TOS it is very likely we will see a ton of new STO content based on what appears in that show. There is bound to be a lot more brand new designs for ships, bases, equipment, etc, so the 23rd century faction still has plenty of potential for growth once the show debuts.
Eh, the chances of us ever seeing any Franz Joseph or Animated Series ships is slim to none. Roddenberry went out of his way to declare all of that stuff non-canon when TNG was starting up.
The CBS made TAS canon again. Roddenberry dosn't set canon (remember he also excluded TWoK and TUC), CBS does.
Two of the Joseph sips appear on displays in TWoK which also makes them canon. The issue is with rights not canon status.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Lets be perfectly clear, the chance is some fraction AFTER the Franz Joseph estate picks a price to sell one of their most precious possessions that vaguely overlaps the price CBS is willing to offer for what is to them a historical footnote.
It's not hard to see why the two parties haven't meaningfully come to the bargaining table in decades. And possibly NEVER will.
Discovery has the possibility of reviving interest in the era, but truthfully, they have designers of their own who'd like to stretch their wings rather than chase after what is, under the nostalgia, some extremely rudimentary kit bashing.
As for the pics posted by Artan42, other than the freighter, they are the dumbest designs ever. And yes I know the Bonadventure is from TAS (along with the freighter - which was then put in the TOS remaster) and that the bottom design is an original (failed) concept for the Phase 2/TMP era. But, fugly is fugly.
It's this kind of thinking that (along with no ability to be consistent which is vital to a prequel) was the fatal flaw that doomed Enterprise. The Bonaventure IS clunky and homely, that's the freaking point! It's a midway point between the even clunkier and homelier Deadalus and the sleek lines of the Constitution. It's bulkier in the nacelles and engineering hull with less capability out of that extra bulk with much less usable space in the primary hull because it needed proportionally more engine to make it work. That's what less technologically advanced should look like, and why the Akira-prise was so criticized. It was sleeker and more usable space to engineering space than the ship that would replace it some 100-something years later! That's not how technological advancement works.
As unappealing as the Bonaventure looks compared to the Constitution, it makes PERFECT SENSE as an older, clunkier version of the design language. It's less advanced, and it shows. That's what designs that are intended to be older and less advanced should be like. Save the slick advanced stuff for later in the timeline and display the limitations of the older tech in the designs that are intended for earlier.
Speaking of consistency, this is what the canon Bonadventure looks like (a correction to the hurriedly drawn cartoon ship that was obviously nothing more than a 'squashed' 1701):
This is simply the logical first 'mass production' improvement of the Phoenix testbed craft, capable of actually doing useful missions in space.
The TAS Bonaventure is canon. It simply had the same name as the little warp ship. It's not even slightly a 'correction'.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Personally, I find that hard to buy, as a) don't those copyrights expire after 50 years or something? b) even if they don't expire, it's not like Franz Joseph estate is getting much from royalties....
I think it's like 78 years or 96 years or something like that, but either way, the designs were "recopyrighted" for at least a 20th-25th anniversary era edition of the tech manual (paperback)...
So the counters were "reset" to that point, at least.
And as far as royalties go, the leverage is all in the estate's hands. They can sit there all they want and set ridiculous prices on their ship designs - prices that Cryptic will either have to accept or pass by. Only desperation on the part of the Estate can convince the prices to go down...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
The title is dumb enough that I didn't even make it to the description. That an that fact that it has Michael Dorn in it. I love him as Worf, but beyond that I've never seen him in anything else of worth. No wonder he was pushing so hard for a Worf-centric TV show. Man's gotta eat.
Never say never, but people have been asking for the Franz Joseph ships for years. Esp the Federation class. There are threads from 5 years ago asking if we can get it in game. The "reason" is the supposed royalties/licensing fees Cryptic would have to pay the estate of Franz Joseph to use his stuff. Personally, I find that hard to buy, as a) don't those copyrights expire after 50 years or something? b) even if they don't expire, it's not like Franz Joseph estate is getting much from royalties....so I can't imagine they would be asking a lot to use his designs. SEVERAL other Star Trek games used them, both board based and computer games. So the family IS WILLING to let them be used.......
......so, maybe?
no TRIBBLE...i spent weeks on that site trying to find an image i saw there years back using all manner of search words i could think of - never found it
course, i'm not 100% sure it was DA i saw it on, but definitely in the 90% range
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
He did a decent job as a cop counselor on Castle
SO, I guess we're in for another six years of the "NO T-6 CONNIE Syndrome" as far as this is concerned.
(YES, I think STO will still be around till then)
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You seem to have forgotten that the NX-01 was much smaller in size and had about a 16th of the volume of the Constitutions.
And the engine room of the NX was no where near as complex as the engines of the 1701 which had two separate locations.
Older does not have to look "clunkier", it simply has to look as though it is an earlier design.
The NX was basically a WARP 5 Engine with a hull wrapped around it.
The Enterprise of TOS was a much more complicated design with a multitude of additional assets that the NX would never have been able to accommodate.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
No other item on it.
Or MAYBE a pod, but...
Warship, of course.
6 front cannons, 2 aft turrets...
Oh, and locked type slots, so no option for non-cannon and turret weapons.]
It IS in the end a Klingon.
This maybe, but no Romulan, but Klingon "wings"?
They just get less sober.
Sleek one, that beast.
They just get less sober.
The reasoning was probably a combination of clearing out any potential continuity snarls and to reduce the amount of royalties being divided from the shows profits. Star Trek writers have always preferred to make things up as they go, so having an extra layer of EU continuity is more baggage than most of them are willing to deal with. The studio side of things has always had a habit of taking steps to avoid paying royalties unless absolutely necessary, such as when Robert McNeill's TNG character Nicholas Lacarno was revised into Tom Paris.
However with Discovery being set shortly before TOS it is very likely we will see a ton of new STO content based on what appears in that show. There is bound to be a lot more brand new designs for ships, bases, equipment, etc, so the 23rd century faction still has plenty of potential for growth once the show debuts.
The CBS made TAS canon again. Roddenberry dosn't set canon (remember he also excluded TWoK and TUC), CBS does.
Two of the Joseph sips appear on displays in TWoK which also makes them canon. The issue is with rights not canon status.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It's not hard to see why the two parties haven't meaningfully come to the bargaining table in decades. And possibly NEVER will.
Discovery has the possibility of reviving interest in the era, but truthfully, they have designers of their own who'd like to stretch their wings rather than chase after what is, under the nostalgia, some extremely rudimentary kit bashing.
The TAS Bonaventure is canon. It simply had the same name as the little warp ship. It's not even slightly a 'correction'.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I think it's like 78 years or 96 years or something like that, but either way, the designs were "recopyrighted" for at least a 20th-25th anniversary era edition of the tech manual (paperback)...
So the counters were "reset" to that point, at least.
And as far as royalties go, the leverage is all in the estate's hands. They can sit there all they want and set ridiculous prices on their ship designs - prices that Cryptic will either have to accept or pass by. Only desperation on the part of the Estate can convince the prices to go down...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]