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Wonder Woman character is TRIBBLE

valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,726 Arc User
The writer of the reborn "Wonder Woman" comics has revealed that the character is TRIBBLE.

Greg Rucka tells Comicosity that since Wonder Woman comes from the fictional all-female island nation of Themyscira, she "has been in love and had relationships with other women."

Source 1 and 2

Not sure I can ever understand the necessity of being historical revisionists when it comes to characters with a 70+ year history. Doesn't that stifle creativity?
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Comments

  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,446 Arc User
    Historically, her creator, William Marston, modeled Diana on his wife and her (female) lover. And there was more than a little bondage in the old comics.

    In-universe, as another comics writer pointed out on Twitter, "They're a society of all-female immortals. What do you think they were doing on that island? A 500-year book club?"​​
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,501 Community Moderator
    No evidence in universe for that valoreah.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Oh...​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • shevetshevet Member Posts: 1,667 Arc User
    Now I'm speculating on how a certain traditional Jewish custom regarding male infants could be performed on Superman. (I can't go into more detail, or it would get snipped.)
    8b6YIel.png?1
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    *muzzlepaw* terrible pun is utterly terrible....​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    jonsills wrote: »
    Historically, her creator, William Marston, modeled Diana on his wife and her (female) lover. And there was more than a little bondage in the old comics.

    In-universe, as another comics writer pointed out on Twitter, "They're a society of all-female immortals. What do you think they were doing on that island? A 500-year book club?"​​
    There is a reason for all those "g*y sailor" jokes besides just interservice rivalries. And I bet you my entire book collection that historical and literary reenactments are not the most common use to which people in Star Trek put holodecks.
    shevet wrote: »
    Now I'm speculating on how a certain traditional Jewish custom regarding male infants could be performed on Superman. (I can't go into more detail, or it would get snipped.)
    59754532.jpg
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    shevet wrote: »
    Now I'm speculating on how a certain traditional Jewish custom regarding male infants could be performed on Superman. (I can't go into more detail, or it would get snipped.)
    59754532.jpg

    You disappoint me. Did you expect worse from him? :tongue:

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    oh, don't you even THINK about making that face, lizard...if he hadn't said it, you WOULD have​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    does anyone research mythology? guess not

    amazons were warriors first and foremost , only time they would be with a man was to well get pregnant, then due to traditions and what not if the child was male it would be given to the father, if female raised as an amazon warrior.

    Also amazons did not get into romantic relationships, as it was a burden to them on the battlefield , but then again amazons were supposed to be like 10 feet tall and have a single breast as the other would be cut off during puberty to show revrence for thier patron deity.

    though ancient thebes had "The sacred band of thebes" they were peerless and one of the most feared warrior clans of ther day, also they were openly homosexual , it was acutally not frowned upon and made them ferocious as they always fought in pairs , and being romantically invololved made them fight even harder for their loved on who fought by thier side.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    I. Do. Not. Care.

    The media deluge about ficitional characters' choice of sexual partners has made me numb to this topic. The information has the sole purpose of making those who created or are using the character appear edgy, hip, or smart. All they are really trying to do is garner more attention in an effort to squeeze every last penny out of whatever project they are presenting to us.

    I'm very likely to see this film when it comes out. Due to the fact my wife is a lifelong comics collector and Wonder Woman is one of her favorite characters. Unless it is going to be a porno, she will not care either.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    I don't know what's more entertaining. The "news" itself or the angst and rage that goes with it.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    personally i wish they would quit calling wonder woman an amazon when clearly she is not, shes a warrior princess from some hidden island of woman, but no she isnt an amazon by definition.

    oh and amazons are androginous (ik spelling is bad) , in mythology they didnt view themselves as men or women only as warriors period, they would only ake a sexual partner as a means of procreation not romance.

    They also were forbidden to get romantically involved with anyone , as it was a burden to them when going into battle having a loved one somewhere would take their mind from the battle and that lapse could cost their lives and the lives of their comrades, and thier deity also forbid it any amazon found in a romance would herself be killed aswell as her partner.

    anyways thought id share a few things on this subject :)
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    What's new about this.
    They live on an Island...

    Everything they eat, tastes like fish.

    >:)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    personally i wish they would quit calling wonder woman an amazon when clearly she is not, shes a warrior princess from some hidden island of woman, but no she isnt an amazon by definition.

    oh and amazons are androginous (ik spelling is bad) , in mythology they didnt view themselves as men or women only as warriors period, they would only ake a sexual partner as a means of procreation not romance.

    They also were forbidden to get romantically involved with anyone , as it was a burden to them when going into battle having a loved one somewhere would take their mind from the battle and that lapse could cost their lives and the lives of their comrades, and thier deity also forbid it any amazon found in a romance would herself be killed aswell as her partner.

    anyways thought id share a few things on this subject :)

    Comicbook Amazons are not mythological Amazons. Both have the right to use the name as one is based on the other. In the old Norse religion, Loki is Odin's brother, not Thor's. Should Marvel give them different names? Should any adaptation of any media be required to change something because it is an adaptation an not the original?
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    @jorantomalak virtually everything we know about "amazons" is myth and romantisized pictures derived from art. There aren't any historical sources whatsoever to even pinpoint where the myths come from. Every single society in history that considered men and women equal (which were rather few) could and per definition has brought fore "amazons". We don't even know what "amazon" is supposed to mean. Every theory about things like sexual ethics and romance about "amazons" is pure and wild speculation.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    @jorantomalak virtually everything we know about "amazons" is myth and romantisized pictures derived from art. There aren't any historical sources whatsoever to even pinpoint where the myths come from. Every single society in history that considered men and women equal (which were rather few) could and per definition has brought fore "amazons". We don't even know what "amazon" is supposed to mean. Every theory about things like sexual ethics and romance about "amazons" is pure and wild speculation.

    so what you're saying is...everything is true, especially the lies?​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,446 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I don't know what's more entertaining. The "news" itself or the angst and rage that goes with it.
    The angst and rage. Easily. :lol:​​
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    shevet wrote: »
    Now I'm speculating on how a certain traditional Jewish custom regarding male infants could be performed on Superman. (I can't go into more detail, or it would get snipped.)

    Would likely be difficult.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    shevet wrote: »
    Now I'm speculating on how a certain traditional Jewish custom regarding male infants could be performed on Superman. (I can't go into more detail, or it would get snipped.)

    Would likely be difficult.
    Kryptonite Blade...

    Cut and Done.
    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • daviesdaviesdaviesdavies Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    I dare you all say "Wunderbar" to Wonderwoman :D
    Mzd8i1c.gif
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,446 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.​​
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    jonsills wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.​​
    On a personal level, I'd rather see a token character, than retcon an existing one to cater to SJWs...

    Example: Captain Jack Harkness.
    In Empty Child, he was shown as flirting with men and women. In (I forget the episode name) he flirted with robots. In another episode (when he was reunited with the Doctor (as the 10th Doctor)) he flirted with a humanoid/insectoid alien... In short, he flirted with everyone and anything. In Miracle Day, he was strictly depicted as being g.ay...

    Barrowman once said in interview that a difference between him and Jack was "I'm [Barrowman] g.ay, he[Jack]'s not..."

    A massively popular and much-loved character, was retconned away from one of the very qualities which made him lovable!

    Same with making KT Sulu g.ay (against George Takei's request) If they had to incoude a reference to homosexuality because it was plot-relevant, rather than just a tired attempt 'to be hip', I'd much rather they had created a new character than pull that trick on an established one.

    IMHO, there's a difference between 'revealing new information about a character', such as Worf having accidentally killed another boy when playing soccer, than 'revealing 'new' information about a character' such as making KT Sulu g.ay and in a relationship no one had ever heard of before.

    There's a certain level of respect and obligation when working with someone else's characters, which frankly, they failed to do with KT Sulu...

    And to bring it back on topic, yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense that Wonder Woman has had same-sex encounters... The point, or rather non-point the writers should be making, should be "And?? So what??" and down-playing it, not being "We made Wonder Woman G.ay!" to draw attention to another DC future-flop which has 'trying too hard' written all over it (like every other POS movie they've put out since Man of Steel...) All the time hacks can't use g.ay characters without needlessly drawing attention to that as an advertising point, there never will be mainstream acceptance of g.ay people or g.ay rights, because it will atill be being treated as different, and needing differential status, than simply being a 'so what?' notion...
  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.​​
    On a personal level, I'd rather see a token character, than retcon an existing one to cater to SJWs...

    Example: Captain Jack Harkness.
    In Empty Child, he was shown as flirting with men and women. In (I forget the episode name) he flirted with robots. In another episode (when he was reunited with the Doctor (as the 10th Doctor)) he flirted with a humanoid/insectoid alien... In short, he flirted with everyone and anything. In Miracle Day, he was strictly depicted as being g.ay...

    Barrowman once said in interview that a difference between him and Jack was "I'm [Barrowman] g.ay, he[Jack]'s not..."

    A massively popular and much-loved character, was retconned away from one of the very qualities which made him lovable!

    Same with making KT Sulu g.ay (against George Takei's request) If they had to incoude a reference to homosexuality because it was plot-relevant, rather than just a tired attempt 'to be hip', I'd much rather they had created a new character than pull that trick on an established one.

    IMHO, there's a difference between 'revealing new information about a character', such as Worf having accidentally killed another boy when playing soccer, than 'revealing 'new' information about a character' such as making KT Sulu g.ay and in a relationship no one had ever heard of before.

    There's a certain level of respect and obligation when working with someone else's characters, which frankly, they failed to do with KT Sulu...

    And to bring it back on topic, yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense that Wonder Woman has had same-sex encounters... The point, or rather non-point the writers should be making, should be "And?? So what??" and down-playing it, not being "We made Wonder Woman G.ay!" to draw attention to another DC future-flop which has 'trying too hard' written all over it (like every other POS movie they've put out since Man of Steel...) All the time hacks can't use g.ay characters without needlessly drawing attention to that as an advertising point, there never will be mainstream acceptance of g.ay people or g.ay rights, because it will atill be being treated as different, and needing differential status, than simply being a 'so what?' notion...

    Why does everyone go nuts about KT Sulu? It was barely noticeable! If you happened to blink once during that scene, you'd have missed it! It's not like it was right in our faces! I thought they handled it in a very respectful way by making it a very simple scene without making a big deal out of it. The only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because Paramount made a big deal out of it before the film launched.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    ryan218 wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.​​
    On a personal level, I'd rather see a token character, than retcon an existing one to cater to SJWs...

    Example: Captain Jack Harkness.
    In Empty Child, he was shown as flirting with men and women. In (I forget the episode name) he flirted with robots. In another episode (when he was reunited with the Doctor (as the 10th Doctor)) he flirted with a humanoid/insectoid alien... In short, he flirted with everyone and anything. In Miracle Day, he was strictly depicted as being g.ay...

    Barrowman once said in interview that a difference between him and Jack was "I'm [Barrowman] g.ay, he[Jack]'s not..."

    A massively popular and much-loved character, was retconned away from one of the very qualities which made him lovable!

    Same with making KT Sulu g.ay (against George Takei's request) If they had to incoude a reference to homosexuality because it was plot-relevant, rather than just a tired attempt 'to be hip', I'd much rather they had created a new character than pull that trick on an established one.

    IMHO, there's a difference between 'revealing new information about a character', such as Worf having accidentally killed another boy when playing soccer, than 'revealing 'new' information about a character' such as making KT Sulu g.ay and in a relationship no one had ever heard of before.

    There's a certain level of respect and obligation when working with someone else's characters, which frankly, they failed to do with KT Sulu...

    And to bring it back on topic, yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense that Wonder Woman has had same-sex encounters... The point, or rather non-point the writers should be making, should be "And?? So what??" and down-playing it, not being "We made Wonder Woman G.ay!" to draw attention to another DC future-flop which has 'trying too hard' written all over it (like every other POS movie they've put out since Man of Steel...) All the time hacks can't use g.ay characters without needlessly drawing attention to that as an advertising point, there never will be mainstream acceptance of g.ay people or g.ay rights, because it will atill be being treated as different, and needing differential status, than simply being a 'so what?' notion...

    Why does everyone go nuts about KT Sulu? It was barely noticeable! If you happened to blink once during that scene, you'd have missed it! It's not like it was right in our faces! I thought they handled it in a very respectful way by making it a very simple scene without making a big deal out of it. The only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because Paramount made a big deal out of it before the film launched.
    I'm not making a big deal out of it, I'm using it as an example of i) unnecessarily retconning a character, and ii) releasing the point to mass media to try and generate hype. You answered your question in your last sentence ;)

  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    ryan218 wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.
    On a personal level, I'd rather see a token character, than retcon an existing one to cater to SJWs...

    Example: Captain Jack Harkness.
    In Empty Child, he was shown as flirting with men and women. In (I forget the episode name) he flirted with robots. In another episode (when he was reunited with the Doctor (as the 10th Doctor)) he flirted with a humanoid/insectoid alien... In short, he flirted with everyone and anything. In Miracle Day, he was strictly depicted as being g.ay...

    Barrowman once said in interview that a difference between him and Jack was "I'm [Barrowman] g.ay, he[Jack]'s not..."

    A massively popular and much-loved character, was retconned away from one of the very qualities which made him lovable!

    Same with making KT Sulu g.ay (against George Takei's request) If they had to incoude a reference to homosexuality because it was plot-relevant, rather than just a tired attempt 'to be hip', I'd much rather they had created a new character than pull that trick on an established one.

    IMHO, there's a difference between 'revealing new information about a character', such as Worf having accidentally killed another boy when playing soccer, than 'revealing 'new' information about a character' such as making KT Sulu g.ay and in a relationship no one had ever heard of before.

    There's a certain level of respect and obligation when working with someone else's characters, which frankly, they failed to do with KT Sulu...

    And to bring it back on topic, yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense that Wonder Woman has had same-sex encounters... The point, or rather non-point the writers should be making, should be "And?? So what??" and down-playing it, not being "We made Wonder Woman G.ay!" to draw attention to another DC future-flop which has 'trying too hard' written all over it (like every other POS movie they've put out since Man of Steel...) All the time hacks can't use g.ay characters without needlessly drawing attention to that as an advertising point, there never will be mainstream acceptance of g.ay people or g.ay rights, because it will atill be being treated as different, and needing differential status, than simply being a 'so what?' notion...

    Why does everyone go nuts about KT Sulu? It was barely noticeable! If you happened to blink once during that scene, you'd have missed it! It's not like it was right in our faces! I thought they handled it in a very respectful way by making it a very simple scene without making a big deal out of it. The only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because Paramount made a big deal out of it before the film launched.
    I'm not making a big deal out of it, I'm using it as an example of i) unnecessarily retconning a character, and ii) releasing the point to mass media to try and generate hype. You answered your question in your last sentence ;)

    It's not a retcon if there was no con to be reted. Sulu never had a sexuality onscreen. Mirror Sulu notwithstanding.​​
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  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,764 Arc User
    I can only see this and KT Sulu as a good thing because there's still some sense of stigma about homosexuality for some people in general. I prefer to support these, and articles about them, rather than shut them down because they're providing visibility on equality. Maybe WW was obvious, but no one was talking about it.
  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
    ryan218 wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.​​
    On a personal level, I'd rather see a token character, than retcon an existing one to cater to SJWs...

    Example: Captain Jack Harkness.
    In Empty Child, he was shown as flirting with men and women. In (I forget the episode name) he flirted with robots. In another episode (when he was reunited with the Doctor (as the 10th Doctor)) he flirted with a humanoid/insectoid alien... In short, he flirted with everyone and anything. In Miracle Day, he was strictly depicted as being g.ay...

    Barrowman once said in interview that a difference between him and Jack was "I'm [Barrowman] g.ay, he[Jack]'s not..."

    A massively popular and much-loved character, was retconned away from one of the very qualities which made him lovable!

    Same with making KT Sulu g.ay (against George Takei's request) If they had to incoude a reference to homosexuality because it was plot-relevant, rather than just a tired attempt 'to be hip', I'd much rather they had created a new character than pull that trick on an established one.

    IMHO, there's a difference between 'revealing new information about a character', such as Worf having accidentally killed another boy when playing soccer, than 'revealing 'new' information about a character' such as making KT Sulu g.ay and in a relationship no one had ever heard of before.

    There's a certain level of respect and obligation when working with someone else's characters, which frankly, they failed to do with KT Sulu...

    And to bring it back on topic, yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense that Wonder Woman has had same-sex encounters... The point, or rather non-point the writers should be making, should be "And?? So what??" and down-playing it, not being "We made Wonder Woman G.ay!" to draw attention to another DC future-flop which has 'trying too hard' written all over it (like every other POS movie they've put out since Man of Steel...) All the time hacks can't use g.ay characters without needlessly drawing attention to that as an advertising point, there never will be mainstream acceptance of g.ay people or g.ay rights, because it will atill be being treated as different, and needing differential status, than simply being a 'so what?' notion...

    Why does everyone go nuts about KT Sulu? It was barely noticeable! If you happened to blink once during that scene, you'd have missed it! It's not like it was right in our faces! I thought they handled it in a very respectful way by making it a very simple scene without making a big deal out of it. The only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because Paramount made a big deal out of it before the film launched.
    I'm not making a big deal out of it, I'm using it as an example of i) unnecessarily retconning a character, and ii) releasing the point to mass media to try and generate hype. You answered your question in your last sentence ;)

    It's not even a retcon. I've said this before, it is possible to be attracted to both genders. Just because Sulu was attracted to females in TOS doesn't mean he wasn't also attracted to males.

    Anyway, to put this back on-topic: as far as I'm concerned, changing a character's sexuality isn't that big a deal (assuming it's not a case of completely retconning their previous sexuality) provided the storytelling is of good quality. And I feel the need to point out that in-universe there is no reason why Wonder Woman couldn't have an attraction to woman as well as men.

    Anytime any writer changes anything about a character, it gets blown way out of proportion. Remember when they had the audacity to divorce Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson? And then how they dared to give Peter a new love interest? Except it didn't actually turn out that bad, but because it was different, it was hated on.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    ryan218 wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.
    On a personal level, I'd rather see a token character, than retcon an existing one to cater to SJWs...

    Example: Captain Jack Harkness.
    In Empty Child, he was shown as flirting with men and women. In (I forget the episode name) he flirted with robots. In another episode (when he was reunited with the Doctor (as the 10th Doctor)) he flirted with a humanoid/insectoid alien... In short, he flirted with everyone and anything. In Miracle Day, he was strictly depicted as being g.ay...

    Barrowman once said in interview that a difference between him and Jack was "I'm [Barrowman] g.ay, he[Jack]'s not..."

    A massively popular and much-loved character, was retconned away from one of the very qualities which made him lovable!

    Same with making KT Sulu g.ay (against George Takei's request) If they had to incoude a reference to homosexuality because it was plot-relevant, rather than just a tired attempt 'to be hip', I'd much rather they had created a new character than pull that trick on an established one.

    IMHO, there's a difference between 'revealing new information about a character', such as Worf having accidentally killed another boy when playing soccer, than 'revealing 'new' information about a character' such as making KT Sulu g.ay and in a relationship no one had ever heard of before.

    There's a certain level of respect and obligation when working with someone else's characters, which frankly, they failed to do with KT Sulu...

    And to bring it back on topic, yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense that Wonder Woman has had same-sex encounters... The point, or rather non-point the writers should be making, should be "And?? So what??" and down-playing it, not being "We made Wonder Woman G.ay!" to draw attention to another DC future-flop which has 'trying too hard' written all over it (like every other POS movie they've put out since Man of Steel...) All the time hacks can't use g.ay characters without needlessly drawing attention to that as an advertising point, there never will be mainstream acceptance of g.ay people or g.ay rights, because it will atill be being treated as different, and needing differential status, than simply being a 'so what?' notion...

    Why does everyone go nuts about KT Sulu? It was barely noticeable! If you happened to blink once during that scene, you'd have missed it! It's not like it was right in our faces! I thought they handled it in a very respectful way by making it a very simple scene without making a big deal out of it. The only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because Paramount made a big deal out of it before the film launched.
    I'm not making a big deal out of it, I'm using it as an example of i) unnecessarily retconning a character, and ii) releasing the point to mass media to try and generate hype. You answered your question in your last sentence ;)

    It's not a retcon if there was no con to be reted. Sulu never had a sexuality onscreen. Mirror Sulu notwithstanding.​​
    ryan218 wrote: »
    ryan218 wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    qjunior wrote: »
    As for revising established characters that way....70 years ago it was hardly possible to have non-straight people in comics...or elsewhere. You could simply say they can finally be open about it.

    Alternatively, the writers can use some of that talent they supposedly have and create new characters. I don't believe times changing is an excuse to be revisionist.
    And then they get accused of creating token characters to cater to the "SJW" crowd. Oh, and of letting the existing characters "stagnate". You just can't win on this front - some folks scream about how they want to read something new, then when you give them something new they complain about it.​​
    On a personal level, I'd rather see a token character, than retcon an existing one to cater to SJWs...

    Example: Captain Jack Harkness.
    In Empty Child, he was shown as flirting with men and women. In (I forget the episode name) he flirted with robots. In another episode (when he was reunited with the Doctor (as the 10th Doctor)) he flirted with a humanoid/insectoid alien... In short, he flirted with everyone and anything. In Miracle Day, he was strictly depicted as being g.ay...

    Barrowman once said in interview that a difference between him and Jack was "I'm [Barrowman] g.ay, he[Jack]'s not..."

    A massively popular and much-loved character, was retconned away from one of the very qualities which made him lovable!

    Same with making KT Sulu g.ay (against George Takei's request) If they had to incoude a reference to homosexuality because it was plot-relevant, rather than just a tired attempt 'to be hip', I'd much rather they had created a new character than pull that trick on an established one.

    IMHO, there's a difference between 'revealing new information about a character', such as Worf having accidentally killed another boy when playing soccer, than 'revealing 'new' information about a character' such as making KT Sulu g.ay and in a relationship no one had ever heard of before.

    There's a certain level of respect and obligation when working with someone else's characters, which frankly, they failed to do with KT Sulu...

    And to bring it back on topic, yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense that Wonder Woman has had same-sex encounters... The point, or rather non-point the writers should be making, should be "And?? So what??" and down-playing it, not being "We made Wonder Woman G.ay!" to draw attention to another DC future-flop which has 'trying too hard' written all over it (like every other POS movie they've put out since Man of Steel...) All the time hacks can't use g.ay characters without needlessly drawing attention to that as an advertising point, there never will be mainstream acceptance of g.ay people or g.ay rights, because it will atill be being treated as different, and needing differential status, than simply being a 'so what?' notion...

    Why does everyone go nuts about KT Sulu? It was barely noticeable! If you happened to blink once during that scene, you'd have missed it! It's not like it was right in our faces! I thought they handled it in a very respectful way by making it a very simple scene without making a big deal out of it. The only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because Paramount made a big deal out of it before the film launched.
    I'm not making a big deal out of it, I'm using it as an example of i) unnecessarily retconning a character, and ii) releasing the point to mass media to try and generate hype. You answered your question in your last sentence ;)

    It's not even a retcon. I've said this before, it is possible to be attracted to both genders. Just because Sulu was attracted to females in TOS doesn't mean he wasn't also attracted to males.

    Anyway, to put this back on-topic: as far as I'm concerned, changing a character's sexuality isn't that big a deal (assuming it's not a case of completely retconning their previous sexuality) provided the storytelling is of good quality. And I feel the need to point out that in-universe there is no reason why Wonder Woman couldn't have an attraction to woman as well as men.

    Anytime any writer changes anything about a character, it gets blown way out of proportion. Remember when they had the audacity to divorce Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson? And then how they dared to give Peter a new love interest? Except it didn't actually turn out that bad, but because it was different, it was hated on.
    George Takei said that he was told Sulu was straight, and that he played him as being straight. As far as I'm concerned, that's all that needs to be said on the matter, making anything else done, a retcon (wether you guys agree with the use of the word 'retcon' or not)

    When George Takei asked them not to do it, they should have respected his request, not just done it anyway. They could have had any new token/unknown character (Trek uses them pretty much every episode) fill the role of 'g.ay husband', rather than unnecessarily tweaking an existing character. Especially when the original actor asked them not to do it. They said they were honoring Takei. Takei said he didn't want to be honored like that. They should have had the humility to expect that, not the hubris to just do it anyway...

    They shouldn't have TweetLeaked it to try and generate hype, because all it did, was kick the hornet's nest.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    so what you're saying is...everything is true, especially the lies?

    I say every statement about "real amazons" is fantasy pig-2.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
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