And who's to say no one else would find it by chance, just like the crew of DS9 did?
Cause the crew of DS9 were there because of Bajor, if there is no Bajor, then that system is useless to anyone, Bajor was the only reason anyone wanted that system.
0
Options
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,115Community Moderator
Survey ship checking for resources or passing through. Or maybe the Dominion finds their side first and discovers the Alpha Quadrant.
BOOM! Sudden wormhole!
Attracts the attention of every major superpower in the region.
Eventual Dominion War... but this time without a DS9 to hold down the Alpha side.
To me that sounds like a recipe for disaster without DS9 at the wormhole.
Besides, killing Nero wont fix the problem that caused him to go mad. To truly fix the issue, the time traveling Vulcan needs to go back in time to stop the Hobus Supernova.
Actually, no. STO is post Nemesis Star Trek fanfiction. It has a bigger budget and a wider audience than some teen writing Star Trek fanfiction in their basement, but it is just as canon as that teen's fanfiction especially with Star Trek's insistence on the Many Worlds Theory. Post Nemesis Star Trek requires a TV series or movie set after Nemesis.
As far as fixing the problem, there is no need. The Kelvin Universe is in its own parallel universe. What happens in the Kelvin Universe has absolutely nothing to do with the Prime Universe. For all we know, Spock and Romulus still exist in the Prime Universe and there was no Hobus Supernova. It could have been STO's Spock and Nero in Star Trek 2009 not Prime Universe's Spock and Nero. After all, STO's lore has Spock and Nero disappear and there is references to the Narada, Hobus Supernova, and Jellyfish.
If it happened on screen it happened, Spock is dead, both in and out of Trek
There is absolutely no rule that forces the next Star Trek series or movie set after Nemesis to follow what happened in Star Trek 2009. All Spocks in every parallel universe look the same provided that they aren't assimilated, lose a limb, or some other physical change occurred. STO's Spock or whichever version of Spock was used in Star Trek 2009 would look exactly the same as Spock Prime.
Different versions of Spock didn't try to stop a Supernova from destroying the Romulans so they would die in the 24th or 25th Century not the 23rd Century. So since it is not known if Spock Prime is in Star Trek 2009 based upon the fact that nothing is known about the Prime Universe after Nemesis, then he could have died in the 25th Century Prime Universe. All that matters is whether its creators wants to keep Romulus around or have the Romulans race lose their homeworld.
You can't kill bajor the prophets would charge out of the wormhole in their as yet unseen user ships (next lockbox)and kill everyone as it's not linear .
Besides, killing Nero wont fix the problem that caused him to go mad. To truly fix the issue, the time traveling Vulcan needs to go back in time to stop the Hobus Supernova.
Actually, no. STO is post Nemesis Star Trek fanfiction. It has a bigger budget and a wider audience than some teen writing Star Trek fanfiction in their basement, but it is just as canon as that teen's fanfiction especially with Star Trek's insistence on the Many Worlds Theory. Post Nemesis Star Trek requires a TV series or movie set after Nemesis.
As far as fixing the problem, there is no need. The Kelvin Universe is in its own parallel universe. What happens in the Kelvin Universe has absolutely nothing to do with the Prime Universe. For all we know, Spock and Romulus still exist in the Prime Universe and there was no Hobus Supernova. It could have been STO's Spock and Nero in Star Trek 2009 not Prime Universe's Spock and Nero. After all, STO's lore has Spock and Nero disappear and there is references to the Narada, Hobus Supernova, and Jellyfish.
If it happened on screen it happened, Spock is dead, both in and out of Trek
There is absolutely no rule that forces the next Star Trek series or movie set after Nemesis to follow what happened in Star Trek 2009. All Spocks in every parallel universe look the same provided that they aren't assimilated, lose a limb, or some other physical change occurred. STO's Spock or whichever version of Spock was used in Star Trek 2009 would look exactly the same as Spock Prime.
Different versions of Spock didn't try to stop a Supernova from destroying the Romulans so they would die in the 24th or 25th Century not the 23rd Century. So since it is not known if Spock Prime is in Star Trek 2009 based upon the fact that nothing is known about the Prime Universe after Nemesis, then he could have died in the 25th Century Prime Universe. All that matters is whether its creators wants to keep Romulus around or have the Romulans race lose their homeworld.
With Nimoy himself having passed, it's time to let Prime Spock go. Good gravy people, there's no one to reprise the role even. Let your dislike of Star Trek 2009 go. Quinto's the only Spock you got right now.
Besides, killing Nero wont fix the problem that caused him to go mad. To truly fix the issue, the time traveling Vulcan needs to go back in time to stop the Hobus Supernova.
Actually, no. STO is post Nemesis Star Trek fanfiction. It has a bigger budget and a wider audience than some teen writing Star Trek fanfiction in their basement, but it is just as canon as that teen's fanfiction especially with Star Trek's insistence on the Many Worlds Theory. Post Nemesis Star Trek requires a TV series or movie set after Nemesis.
As far as fixing the problem, there is no need. The Kelvin Universe is in its own parallel universe. What happens in the Kelvin Universe has absolutely nothing to do with the Prime Universe. For all we know, Spock and Romulus still exist in the Prime Universe and there was no Hobus Supernova. It could have been STO's Spock and Nero in Star Trek 2009 not Prime Universe's Spock and Nero. After all, STO's lore has Spock and Nero disappear and there is references to the Narada, Hobus Supernova, and Jellyfish.
If it happened on screen it happened, Spock is dead, both in and out of Trek
There is absolutely no rule that forces the next Star Trek series or movie set after Nemesis to follow what happened in Star Trek 2009. All Spocks in every parallel universe look the same provided that they aren't assimilated, lose a limb, or some other physical change occurred. STO's Spock or whichever version of Spock was used in Star Trek 2009 would look exactly the same as Spock Prime.
Different versions of Spock didn't try to stop a Supernova from destroying the Romulans so they would die in the 24th or 25th Century not the 23rd Century. So since it is not known if Spock Prime is in Star Trek 2009 based upon the fact that nothing is known about the Prime Universe after Nemesis, then he could have died in the 25th Century Prime Universe. All that matters is whether its creators wants to keep Romulus around or have the Romulans race lose their homeworld.
With Nimoy himself having passed, it's time to let Prime Spock go. Good gravy people, there's no one to reprise the role even. Let your dislike of Star Trek 2009 go. Quinto's the only Spock you got right now.
If STO players were able to let things go, there'd be no forums. Can't have that now, can we?
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Oh lord have mercy who let the Kelvin-haters and Trek-purist out of their cages again.
If Trek didn't adapt and reinvent itself and was stuck in the TOS format it probably would not have made it out of the 60's. So there's not much sense in arguing what isn't real or whatever backwards looking small minded argument you want to put forwards for why the Krlvin stuff isn't real. If it was for the new films the franchise would be dead, it already was dead and we wouldn't be where we are now without a fresh angle to look at it.
I'm so sick and tired of people acting like the Kelvin stuff is some insult against their mothers or something when Trek has always been about looking forward and adapting to new things.
You can't truly *end* the Kelvin Timeline because it is a branch universe and anything that you do to change things will merely spin off another branch universe (if it is a temporal aberration that will irreparably damage and compromise the functional fabric of the space time continuum , then and only then, will time travelers step in to intervene. However it has already been established in the STO timeline that the Kelvin timeline *is* stable and the mission to travel into it reinforces that notion. Furthermore as the Hobus explosion happened in the Prime timeline, we have to take it that the characters contemporary with that event live with the consequences as they would a normal tragic event. From a "present day" perspective, tragic as events are... it would be assumed that "life goes on". Anyone from the future who seeked to affect the Hobus event would merely create another branch timeline (although we don't know whether this would be unstable). Now by all means this universe could continue with a Romulan Star Empire and it would look very much like the status quo you are left with at the end of Nemesis... but it would not be a continuation, merely another deviation like the Kelvin timeline itself. The Hobus event is observed history and therefore it is part of the Prime timeline.
Remember the only previous attempt to restore Romulus was only put forward when the present day security of the Prime timeline was endangered. They only entertained the idea because of the starkness of the Iconian threat... and of course it didn't work out.
The interesting thing is that in effect according to real life temporal theory, the present you return to after traveling to the past should be unchanged (this is why branch theory exists and how paradox is avoided), but for observable changes to be made, the implication is that there are parallel universes very similar or identical to the Prime one, in which actions were taken by our time travelers interdimensional counterparts that mirrored the choices of our time travelers which caused the changes in our timeline. That said, strictly speaking it shouldn't be possible to be in a timeline with any observable changes.
Nimoy is credited as Spock Prime in the 2009 film, probably in STID as well though I'd have to check, so canonically his timeline of origin has been identified.
We know absolutely nothing about what happened in the Prime Universe after Nemesis. If the creator of some future TV series or movie set after Nemesis decides that he wants Romulus to stay around, then Spock in the Star Trek 2009 would be falsely credited as Spock Prime. If that happens, then old Spock and the few minutes in the 24th Century is moved to another universe instead of what we originally thought. Therefore until we get verification in the Prime Universe that Romulus is destroyed from a supernova, then it is not known which universe old Spock came from. He could be from the Prime Universe, the universe Harry Kim is from, or one of the countless other Star Trek universes that existed in the Parallels episode.
You can't truly *end* the Kelvin Timeline because it is a branch universe and anything that you do to change things will merely spin off another branch universe (if it is a temporal aberration that will irreparably damage and compromise the functional fabric of the space time continuum , then and only then, will time travelers step in to intervene. However it has already been established in the STO timeline that the Kelvin timeline *is* stable and the mission to travel into it reinforces that notion. Furthermore as the Hobus explosion happened in the Prime timeline, we have to take it that the characters contemporary with that event live with the consequences as they would a normal tragic event. From a "present day" perspective, tragic as events are... it would be assumed that "life goes on". Anyone from the future who seeked to affect the Hobus event would merely create another branch timeline (although we don't know whether this would be unstable). Now by all means this universe could continue with a Romulan Star Empire and it would look very much like the status quo you are left with at the end of Nemesis... but it would not be a continuation, merely another deviation like the Kelvin timeline itself. The Hobus event is observed history and therefore it is part of the Prime timeline.
Remember the only previous attempt to restore Romulus was only put forward when the present day security of the Prime timeline was endangered. They only entertained the idea because of the starkness of the Iconian threat... and of course it didn't work out.
The interesting thing is that in effect according to real life temporal theory, the present you return to after traveling to the past should be unchanged (this is why branch theory exists and how paradox is avoided), but for observable changes to be made, the implication is that there are parallel universes very similar or identical to the Prime one, in which actions were taken by our time travelers interdimensional counterparts that mirrored the choices of our time travelers which caused the changes in our timeline. That said, strictly speaking it shouldn't be possible to be in a timeline with any observable changes.
There is nothing in Star Trek 2009 that specifies that the Kelvin Universe is a branch universe. It is just as likely that the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe that is extremely similar to the 23rd Century. After all, there is nothing that forces all parallel universes to have the same time. Some might go faster, some might go slower, some might look like the future, and some might look like the past. Only someone like Q or Daniels could tell if the Kelvin Universe is a branch universe or a parallel universe.
STO specifically states that the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe in the Terminal Expanse mission.
In 2387, an incident created a quantum rift between our universe and this one. A Romulan ship accidentally traveled here through a singularity.
They found themselves in 2233 and later destroyed the U.S.S. Kelvin in battle. This caused their timeline to differ from ours - as a result, we now refer to it as the Kelvin Timeline.
We believe the Sphere Builders communicate with their operatives through the rift.
The only issue is if there is only one Kelvin Universe or if there is the Kelvin-STO Universe and Kelvin-Movies Universe. If there is only one Kelvin Universe, then the few minutes in Star Trek 2009 showing the 24th Century takes place in the STO Universe not the Prime Universe. STO's lore and the Terminal Expanse mission clearly shows that the STO Universe messed up a parallel universe to become a Kelvin Universe. Whether it is the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin-STO Universe remains to be seen.
We know absolutely nothing about what happened in the Prime Universe after Nemesis.
We know Spock was an ambassador. We know the Vulcans use Red Matter. We know the Jellyfish is their fastest ship. We know Romulus was destroyed. We know Nero's family died. We know Nero owned a ship named Nerada.
If the creator of some future TV series or movie set after Nemesis decides that he wants Romulus to stay around, then Spock in the Star Trek 2009 would be falsely credited as Spock Prime.
Yes. You've got something right this time. It would be a retcon.
Therefore until we get verification in the Prime Universe that Romulus is destroyed from a supernova, then it is not known which universe old Spock came from. He could be from the Prime Universe, the universe Harry Kim is from, or one of the countless other Star Trek universes that existed in the Parallels episode.
We know he is from the Prime Universe, both in universe (through dialogue) and out of universe (from the people who own the franchise and the credits). As with the last dozen times you've trodden this path, your refusal to accept that does not change it.
There is nothing in Star Trek 2009 that specifies that the Kelvin Universe is a branch universe. It is just as likely that the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe that is extremely similar to the 23rd Century. After all, there is nothing that forces all parallel universes to have the same time. Some might go faster, some might go slower, some might look like the future, and some might look like the past. Only someone like Q or Daniels could tell if the Kelvin Universe is a branch universe or a parallel universe.
The official name is the Kelvin Timeline not the Kelvin Universe. So by being wrong you've accidentally gone full circle into being right. It's not a 'branch universe' it's an alternate timeline.
The only issue is if there is only one Kelvin Universe or if there is the Kelvin-STO Universe and Kelvin-Movies Universe. If there is only one Kelvin Universe, then the few minutes in Star Trek 2009 showing the 24th Century takes place in the STO Universe not the Prime Universe. STO's lore and the Terminal Expanse mission clearly shows that the STO Universe messed up a parallel universe to become a Kelvin Universe. Whether it is the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin-STO Universe remains to be seen.
HA! The STO universe is not canon and factored not one iota in the minds of the people making the KT or anything else for that matter.
I'll correct your little paragraph above for you;
'If there is only one Kelvin Timeline then the then the few minutes in Star Trek 2009 showing the 24th Century takes place in the Prime Universe'.
Notice how, even with the corrections, it still dosn't make sense. You haven't presented an argument, you made up a statement and presented it in such a way to make it look like it contains evidence and a conclusion.
I know the last bit was technically about STO but considering you're basing your conclusion of that on your faulty understanding of actual canon it still needs correction.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It is not up to you or me what is canon in the Prime Universe. If some future creator of a post-Nemesis TV series or movie decides that the events of Star Trek 2009 didn't happen in the Prime Universe, but some other universe, then it is up to their whims whether the Hobus Supernova, Jellyfish, Nero, and Narada exist in the Prime Universe. They could have Spock stop the supernova, but only Nero or Spock goes to another universe if that is their desire. So either it will be verified that the events in the 24th Century in Star Trek 2009 happened in the Prime Universe or it will be retconned that those events happened in some unknown universe.
There is already a Kelvin Universe connected to the STO Universe. All the events that happened in the 24th Century in Star Trek 2009 happened in STO while there is no verification of those events happening in the Prime Universe. It is the whims of that creator to determine whether those events are canon to the Prime Universe or not. Nero of the STO Universe created a Kelvin Universe while it remains to be seen if Nero of the Prime Universe created a Kelvin Universe.
Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether old Spock is from the Prime Universe or another universe. All that matters is keeping an open mind to what can happen.
It is not up to you or me what is canon in the Prime Universe. If some future creator of a post-Nemesis TV series or movie decides that the events of Star Trek 2009 didn't happen in the Prime Universe, but some other universe, then it is up to their whims whether the Hobus Supernova, Jellyfish, Nero, and Narada exist in the Prime Universe. They could have Spock stop the supernova, but only Nero or Spock goes to another universe if that is their desire. So either it will be verified that the events in the 24th Century in Star Trek 2009 happened in the Prime Universe or it will be retconned that those events happened in some unknown universe.
Correct. It's up to CBS and Paramount and they have decided that the 24th century parts of 09 are the Prime Universe. You can't just refuse to accept that, on the off chance, that one distant day, maybe, perhaps, it might be retconed.
There is already a Kelvin Universe connected to the STO Universe. All the events that happened in the 24th Century in Star Trek 2009 happened in STO while there is no verification of those events happening in the Prime Universe. It is the whims of that creator to determine whether those events are canon to the Prime Universe or not. Nero of the STO Universe created a Kelvin Universe while it remains to be seen if Nero of the Prime Universe created a Kelvin Universe.
Again, you sticking your fingers in your eyes and chanting 'lalalalalalalalala' does not remove that evidence.
Nero of the Prime Universe helped create the Kelvin Timeline (there's that word again, 'timeline', not 'universe') as established in canon (dialogue) and out (word of CBS and PAramount and the films credits). I do understand that those particular bits of evidence may be hard to see with your fingers firmly in your eyes but they are there.
Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether old Spock is from the Prime Universe or another universe. All that matters is keeping an open mind to what can happen.
Do tell us about the afterburners again. Or explain why you'd reject the present in the possibility of a different future?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,115Community Moderator
KT Spock stated pretty clearly that the moment the Narada came and destroyed the Kelvin caused a whole new series of events, to which Uhura correctly identified as an Alternate Reality. Until the Narada came, it WAS Prime Universe. Then the Narada destroyed the Kelvin, triggering the branching point.
There is no reason to "correct" it as it is now a branched timeline. The Prime Timeline still exists, the Kelvin Timeline exists in parallel to it, just like the Mirror Universe exists in parallel. Trying to "correct" it will just cause ANOTHER branching point and the creation of yet another timeline. NOT a restoration of the "proper" timeline as it already exists.
Want more proof? Look at Annorax. The more you try and force a desired change, the more Time itself will fight you.
Why are we trying to kill off the single greatest part of Star Trek again ?
to create something the purist would hate even more?
Oh please. TNG got them frothing enough. I'm sure they even hate TOS reruns for not being how they originally remember them.
Not quite...
I've always imagined them with much better Sp-fx in my mind anyway, the stuff they did with the re-masters, just brings it closer to what I imagined as a kid growing up with Trek in my head 24/7.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
ignoring it works pretty well. and the latest movie's box office might have done the trick - we'll see.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Why are we trying to kill off the single greatest part of Star Trek again ?
to create something the purist would hate even more?
Oh please. TNG got them frothing enough. I'm sure they even hate TOS reruns for not being how they originally remember them.
Not quite...
I've always imagined them with much better Sp-fx in my mind anyway, the stuff they did with the re-masters, just brings it closer to what I imagined as a kid growing up with Trek in my head 24/7.
ignoring it works pretty well. and the latest movie's box office might have done the trick - we'll see.
That's what true fans do, they conspire to kill their franchise.
'I don't like it so nobody can have it'.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I am not a corporatist. I don't think in terms of "franchise," or mcnuggets.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Stan Lee suggested an answer to a similar query back when he answered the question; "Who would win?"
So one Question I'm always asked. Who would win in a fight? Who would win in a fight if Galactus fought The Hulk, or if Thor fought Iron Man? And there's one answer to all of that. It's so simple, anyone should know this. The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win! If I'm writing a story, about The Thing, from the Fantastic Four, and he gets into a big fight with Spider-Man, and millions of people out there say Who Would Win? Well, it depends on who I want to win if I'm writing the script. If I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win. If I want the Thing to win, he'll win. These are fictitious characters, the writer can do whatever he wants with them! So stop asking those questions, 'cause I've had it with that. comicbookmovie.com/other/stan-lee-answers-the-question-who-would-win-in-his-latest-rant-a90575
Basically, what happens in ANY story is in the hands of whoever is writing the story. Here the Devs have control of the story. On Network Television or CBS All Axis those writers have control. And these guys also have control over which timeline is Prime or Alt 002 or Alt 003 or Alt 004-XJ-22-C95A1 etc.
Let's face it, what would you rather have had: Trek to keep going the way that it was, or something new to breath fresh life into it?
I personally like the new movies. As a fan of TOS, it does a great job of capturing the spirit of the show. And it doesn't make the previous Treks go away. It's an alternate timeline, just as Trek has shown time and time again.
Captain Jack. L Mueller
Commander, U.S.S. Novara NCC-200001-D
Fleet Admiral
LMAO! just becasue you don't like somethig doesm't make it non canon, as it hasalways been since always....if it happened on screen it happened.
If I ignored what i didn't like well Voyager would not exist.
oh wait! I do remember back in the 2000's people arguing that Enterprise was not canon cause well we never heard of the Star Ship Enterprise NX-01 in Trek before...it reminds me of the JJverse....and before that TNG was not Trek because TOS purist did not like it.
Comments
Cause the crew of DS9 were there because of Bajor, if there is no Bajor, then that system is useless to anyone, Bajor was the only reason anyone wanted that system.
BOOM! Sudden wormhole!
Attracts the attention of every major superpower in the region.
Eventual Dominion War... but this time without a DS9 to hold down the Alpha side.
To me that sounds like a recipe for disaster without DS9 at the wormhole.
There is absolutely no rule that forces the next Star Trek series or movie set after Nemesis to follow what happened in Star Trek 2009. All Spocks in every parallel universe look the same provided that they aren't assimilated, lose a limb, or some other physical change occurred. STO's Spock or whichever version of Spock was used in Star Trek 2009 would look exactly the same as Spock Prime.
Different versions of Spock didn't try to stop a Supernova from destroying the Romulans so they would die in the 24th or 25th Century not the 23rd Century. So since it is not known if Spock Prime is in Star Trek 2009 based upon the fact that nothing is known about the Prime Universe after Nemesis, then he could have died in the 25th Century Prime Universe. All that matters is whether its creators wants to keep Romulus around or have the Romulans race lose their homeworld.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
With Nimoy himself having passed, it's time to let Prime Spock go. Good gravy people, there's no one to reprise the role even. Let your dislike of Star Trek 2009 go. Quinto's the only Spock you got right now.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
If Trek didn't adapt and reinvent itself and was stuck in the TOS format it probably would not have made it out of the 60's. So there's not much sense in arguing what isn't real or whatever backwards looking small minded argument you want to put forwards for why the Krlvin stuff isn't real.
If it was for the new films the franchise would be dead, it already was dead and we wouldn't be where we are now without a fresh angle to look at it.
I'm so sick and tired of people acting like the Kelvin stuff is some insult against their mothers or something when Trek has always been about looking forward and adapting to new things.
Remember the only previous attempt to restore Romulus was only put forward when the present day security of the Prime timeline was endangered. They only entertained the idea because of the starkness of the Iconian threat... and of course it didn't work out.
The interesting thing is that in effect according to real life temporal theory, the present you return to after traveling to the past should be unchanged (this is why branch theory exists and how paradox is avoided), but for observable changes to be made, the implication is that there are parallel universes very similar or identical to the Prime one, in which actions were taken by our time travelers interdimensional counterparts that mirrored the choices of our time travelers which caused the changes in our timeline. That said, strictly speaking it shouldn't be possible to be in a timeline with any observable changes.
We know absolutely nothing about what happened in the Prime Universe after Nemesis. If the creator of some future TV series or movie set after Nemesis decides that he wants Romulus to stay around, then Spock in the Star Trek 2009 would be falsely credited as Spock Prime. If that happens, then old Spock and the few minutes in the 24th Century is moved to another universe instead of what we originally thought. Therefore until we get verification in the Prime Universe that Romulus is destroyed from a supernova, then it is not known which universe old Spock came from. He could be from the Prime Universe, the universe Harry Kim is from, or one of the countless other Star Trek universes that existed in the Parallels episode.
There is nothing in Star Trek 2009 that specifies that the Kelvin Universe is a branch universe. It is just as likely that the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe that is extremely similar to the 23rd Century. After all, there is nothing that forces all parallel universes to have the same time. Some might go faster, some might go slower, some might look like the future, and some might look like the past. Only someone like Q or Daniels could tell if the Kelvin Universe is a branch universe or a parallel universe.
STO specifically states that the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe in the Terminal Expanse mission.
The only issue is if there is only one Kelvin Universe or if there is the Kelvin-STO Universe and Kelvin-Movies Universe. If there is only one Kelvin Universe, then the few minutes in Star Trek 2009 showing the 24th Century takes place in the STO Universe not the Prime Universe. STO's lore and the Terminal Expanse mission clearly shows that the STO Universe messed up a parallel universe to become a Kelvin Universe. Whether it is the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin-STO Universe remains to be seen.
We know Spock was an ambassador. We know the Vulcans use Red Matter. We know the Jellyfish is their fastest ship. We know Romulus was destroyed. We know Nero's family died. We know Nero owned a ship named Nerada.
Yes. You've got something right this time. It would be a retcon.
And now you're back to being wrong again. Continuity errors do not spin off their own universes.
We know he is from the Prime Universe, both in universe (through dialogue) and out of universe (from the people who own the franchise and the credits). As with the last dozen times you've trodden this path, your refusal to accept that does not change it.
The official name is the Kelvin Timeline not the Kelvin Universe. So by being wrong you've accidentally gone full circle into being right. It's not a 'branch universe' it's an alternate timeline.
So? STO has no bearing on canon.
HA! The STO universe is not canon and factored not one iota in the minds of the people making the KT or anything else for that matter.
I'll correct your little paragraph above for you;
'If there is only one Kelvin Timeline then the then the few minutes in Star Trek 2009 showing the 24th Century takes place in the Prime Universe'.
Notice how, even with the corrections, it still dosn't make sense. You haven't presented an argument, you made up a statement and presented it in such a way to make it look like it contains evidence and a conclusion.
I know the last bit was technically about STO but considering you're basing your conclusion of that on your faulty understanding of actual canon it still needs correction.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
There is already a Kelvin Universe connected to the STO Universe. All the events that happened in the 24th Century in Star Trek 2009 happened in STO while there is no verification of those events happening in the Prime Universe. It is the whims of that creator to determine whether those events are canon to the Prime Universe or not. Nero of the STO Universe created a Kelvin Universe while it remains to be seen if Nero of the Prime Universe created a Kelvin Universe.
Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether old Spock is from the Prime Universe or another universe. All that matters is keeping an open mind to what can happen.
Correct. It's up to CBS and Paramount and they have decided that the 24th century parts of 09 are the Prime Universe. You can't just refuse to accept that, on the off chance, that one distant day, maybe, perhaps, it might be retconed.
Again, you sticking your fingers in your eyes and chanting 'lalalalalalalalala' does not remove that evidence.
Nero of the Prime Universe helped create the Kelvin Timeline (there's that word again, 'timeline', not 'universe') as established in canon (dialogue) and out (word of CBS and PAramount and the films credits). I do understand that those particular bits of evidence may be hard to see with your fingers firmly in your eyes but they are there.
Do tell us about the afterburners again. Or explain why you'd reject the present in the possibility of a different future?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
There is no reason to "correct" it as it is now a branched timeline. The Prime Timeline still exists, the Kelvin Timeline exists in parallel to it, just like the Mirror Universe exists in parallel. Trying to "correct" it will just cause ANOTHER branching point and the creation of yet another timeline. NOT a restoration of the "proper" timeline as it already exists.
Want more proof? Look at Annorax. The more you try and force a desired change, the more Time itself will fight you.
As stated, he's passed. We will all miss him. But there's no more to be done with Spock by Nimoy.
Agreed. Why people keep trying to find ways to "fix" the timeline...
Its like a dog with a bone. Just won't let it go.
Resisting urge to post that song now...
I've always imagined them with much better Sp-fx in my mind anyway, the stuff they did with the re-masters, just brings it closer to what I imagined as a kid growing up with Trek in my head 24/7.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Stop being so unreasonably reasonable
That's what true fans do, they conspire to kill their franchise.
'I don't like it so nobody can have it'.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
So one Question I'm always asked. Who would win in a fight? Who would win in a fight if Galactus fought The Hulk, or if Thor fought Iron Man? And there's one answer to all of that. It's so simple, anyone should know this. The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win! If I'm writing a story, about The Thing, from the Fantastic Four, and he gets into a big fight with Spider-Man, and millions of people out there say Who Would Win? Well, it depends on who I want to win if I'm writing the script. If I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win. If I want the Thing to win, he'll win. These are fictitious characters, the writer can do whatever he wants with them! So stop asking those questions, 'cause I've had it with that.
comicbookmovie.com/other/stan-lee-answers-the-question-who-would-win-in-his-latest-rant-a90575
Basically, what happens in ANY story is in the hands of whoever is writing the story. Here the Devs have control of the story. On Network Television or CBS All Axis those writers have control. And these guys also have control over which timeline is Prime or Alt 002 or Alt 003 or Alt 004-XJ-22-C95A1 etc.
I personally like the new movies. As a fan of TOS, it does a great job of capturing the spirit of the show. And it doesn't make the previous Treks go away. It's an alternate timeline, just as Trek has shown time and time again.
Commander, U.S.S. Novara NCC-200001-D
Fleet Admiral
If I ignored what i didn't like well Voyager would not exist.
oh wait! I do remember back in the 2000's people arguing that Enterprise was not canon cause well we never heard of the Star Ship Enterprise NX-01 in Trek before...it reminds me of the JJverse....and before that TNG was not Trek because TOS purist did not like it.