The view screen shows space as black in holodeck, clearly this isn't black.
Same bridge on holodeck
Adjusting the sliders made no difference although with both sliders on minimum it was interesting lol.
Ok, I get it now. It's not that space is lighter, it's that the window is reflecting a generic cubemap (which is some blotchy sky/blue/white colors). Many bridges have not been touched up yet. My guess is that the Odyssey simply hasn't gotten probed yet. When it does, reflections should be back to normal.
Not sure what's going on with low-end, but I know that the Graphics team hasn't worked out all of the fallback stuff yet for people who's cards won't do the new lighting. That's all coming still.
Another one http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10075563-before-and-after
The before shot is clear, detailed and looks great. In the after shot the distances parts of the shots look like they are surrounded by a light fog/ haze. The detail has gone. I don’t have time to go throughout the entire game but from my play though on tribble it’s a common problem.
Don't go by the Before & Afters. Remember this is all a work in progress still, and most of those before and after shots were done before we really got into it. When we first switched over, fog was much more prominent than it used to be. But I believe that's been corrected at this point. If you're going to point at things, point me to things that are currently on Tribble.
“Nothing should have changed with water shaders. They were working fine last I looked, and would still catch light. Again, specifics. Where are you seeing this? Which water?”
All water has lost all reflections. (EDIT I have not checked since you made the post about the slider fix) The clearest example are the Xindi bridges with the Aquatic bridge being the worst. It no longer has water ripple effects on the ceiling. Most of the shadows have vanished. None of the consoles admit light. Colours are now faded and washed out.
To quote another person. “the Vorgon bridge looked the worst by far. On Holodeck this bridge is absolutely stunning, with every metal surface showing the reflection of the data orbs on the ceiling and the shiny crystal inlays on the floor panels. On Tribble, the textures for those crystal inlays have disappeared, leaving only the moving colors underneath visible. None of the metal surfaces are reflective anymore, and none of the data orbs/consoles/glowy bits emit light. It really just looks washed out and very bland on Tribble compared to Holodeck,”
I've looked at both the Xindi & Vorgon bridges just now. I agree they are missing their reflections, but this is due to the same thing as I mentioned above with the Odyssey. They haven't gotten touched yet. Many bridges have not. We're working on it, and they will get adjusted properly. We have several hundred maps in game. It was much more important to go through the social areas and primary mission maps first. That doesn't mean bridges won't get touched up, it just means that they haven't been yet.
“Not outdated at all, just a different method. Many different games have handled lighting in different ways from each other. That doesn't mean that Game A's lighting is inherently better than Game B's. They're different, they're contemporary”
I don’t agree. Shadow pops shouldn’t be a problem in modern games. It was barely a problem in the current lighting engine but is far worse in the new lighting engine which to me seems inherently worse. The large amount of shadows popping in and out feels like a step backwards. It’s not something I have experienced in games in many years.
This is not a step backwards in tech, it's just a symptom of overzealous environment artists that had their leash loosened. We will touch up the areas that are problematic. Shadows shouldn't be fading in and out nearby, they should only be doing so at a distance, as they did before.
“I agree that your hair, and the door are getting washed out, and I'd be happy to look into it if you tell me where that is. It may be that we just need to turn down the light a touch. I don't want it to look like the left, but I agree that the door is too bright.”
“Hey guys, if you think the lighting looks terrible, next time you're on tribble, go to your graphics settings, click "enable sliders", then slide both sliders all the way down (to the left), then all the way back up (to the right). Then adjust settings as you see fit.
There have been reports, and I've now seen a video (thank you Foundry Roundtable) where people's settings are SET to max, but not displaying properly. By dragging the sliders back and forth, it'll force everything to update.”
I would like to state my complaining and everything in this post above this quote is before trying this fix. If the horrible lighting I am experiencing is due to the above bug I apologise for complaining. I don’t have time right now to test out and replay all the starting missions as it’s getting late here. It could well be I thought the lighting was worse than it is due to the settings bug. That would explains why I lost reflections and water effects.
I've got no problem with you complaining. That's how we learn about these things. The only time I have a problem is when people start going off about our personal or collective incompetence, indifference, or heartlessness.
Bring up issues you see as often as you like, just do so in a respectful manner, and we're all good.
I tried the fix @tacofangs said and it did nothing, as I can not use shadows as it slows the game to a crawl and I am not able to play ( well I can but its like a slideshow ) ... and this is what I get
the only! thing that toned it down was Shadows and hmmm I cant use them....
Now on Holodeck I can use max settings with some Alterations! to play and this is what I get with/without shadows....
With
Without...
Nothing majorly different on Holo but as you see on Tribble........
As I said above if there is no fix for this I will and im guess others to, with either have to abandon the game or spend RL money to buy a new GPU (and what ever else is needed to do so) to be able to play the game...
From your other thread:
ESD is an odd duck.
It's an interior map, set in space, with big windows looking directly toward the sun.
When we re-lit, ESD, a change was made to the way we were representing Sunlight on the map. That allowed us to do some cooler stuff, like having the sunlight pour through to the concourse, something it couldn't do before. But it relies on shadows to not have that sunlight affect everything, everywhere.
I'll bring this up, but I honestly don't know what the right answer is right now.
Edit: I will add that I believe you should be able to revert to the old lighting by switching from DX11 back to DX9.
Hey guys, if you think the lighting looks terrible, next time you're on tribble, go to your graphics settings, click "enable sliders", then slide both sliders all the way down (to the left), then all the way back up (to the right). Then adjust settings as you see fit.
There have been reports, and I've now seen a video (thank you Foundry Roundtable) where people's settings are SET to max, but not displaying properly. By dragging the sliders back and forth, it'll force everything to update.
I'll try that - thanks Taco.
Note that this isn't really a "FIX" for anything, other than potentially settings that look like they're set to one thing, but are actually displaying something else.
Thank you for understanding. To confirm I was suffering from the graphics bug. I had all my sliders on max thinking the graphics was on max but after putting the sliders on low and back to max again the graphics improved a lot. Between that and not being aware some areas have not been worked on it explains why I thought the upgrade was so bad which it isn’t now its working correctly. I am much happier with the upgrade now I have seen it function correctly.
I still believe a few areas are too bright and the spooky missions like what "What lies beneath". and Elachi missions have lost their spooky atmospherics. Not sure why you said the word doesn’t mean what I think it does. I checked it means the mood of the area. It’s often used when talking about atmosphere and lighting. But what the word means doesn't matter, I was trying to say the spooky nature of those missions which was great has been lost in the transfer over to the new lighting.
I am not sure of the best way to deal with this but as players we don't know which areas are still being worked on, which haven't even been touched yet or which areas have been finished. For example if I had known most bridges hadn't been looked at yet I would have held off giving feedback. I know I sometimes complain a lot but I want to give useful feedback and I am not sure which parts of the game I should be looking at.
EDIT: Just flown my ship to a new mission and I love the new fire trail coming out the back of the ship and lighting everything up. I was getting none of this yesterday.
EDIT: Since the slider fix so far no close up shadows popping in and out. All been smooth transitions. Due to the fix most of what I was complaining about is no longer valid. The new lighting is not a giant step back. That was one horrible bug that made the lighting appear far worse then it really is.
EDIT3: I don't know if you changed the exchange yet on ESD but if you haven't it does not need looking at. Since the slider fix that's area is working correctly. No sudden shadow pops.
No worries, thanks for checking, and I'm glad that straightened out your graphics.
Yes, there's still plenty to be done.
"Atmospherics" is a pretty broad term. While you can use "Atmosphere" to describe how the inside of a restaurant feels, you can also use "Atmosphere" to describe the actual atmosphere. Both of those things are things that an Environment Artist (such as myself) would deal with, and both of which could be affected by lighting changes. So it's less that the word didn't mean what you think it means, and more that we needed more specific terms to narrow down what it was we're talking about.
The best way to go about it, is to keep posting when you see something that you think looks funky. Don't expect a reply on each one, some we may already know about. But some we may not, and you may be the only one to tell us.
I think the key is to shift your frame of thinking. You're on Tribble, a test server. Don't "complain" about how bad it looks, give us "feedback" about how we could make things better.
I think the key is to shift your frame of thinking. You're on Tribble, a test server. Don't "complain" about how bad it looks, give us "feedback" about how we could make things better.
@tacofangs have you been on the kelvin connie bridge in the new lighting? i noticed that it is very "dark" at the captain's chair, while very "bright" on the floor right in front of the view screen. i have also noticed that you will have a strange "line" on your character cutting off the higher dark level from the lower lighter level.
Hey guys, if you think the lighting looks terrible, next time you're on tribble, go to your graphics settings, click "enable sliders", then slide both sliders all the way down (to the left), then all the way back up (to the right). Then adjust settings as you see fit.
There have been reports, and I've now seen a video (thank you Foundry Roundtable) where people's settings are SET to max, but not displaying properly. By dragging the sliders back and forth, it'll force everything to update.
I tried this out...wow, totally made a huge difference. The DS9 interior looks fantastic now! Very atmospheric, and much more like the show.
There are still a lot of spots that are blown out and too bright, and oddly it looks to me that the colors are muted in some locations - ESD being one of them. But overall, this "reset" seems to have forced things to work better for me.
Lightmaps are an ENTIRELY different system that we have never had in STO. The Shadows are dynamic because the lights that are casting them are dynamic. Whether the geometry is static or not is irrelevant. This is the way it's been from the start.
Lightmaps are pre-calculated textures/decals, nothing more. Most of the rendering and game engines I have ever worked on allow designers to set receive and cast shadow flags on individual objects. Details that are static and not being acted upon by dynamic lighting in a dynamic way (eg. moving light sources in the immediate vicinity) generally have dynamic shadows disabled and a static lightmap in place. There is practically no drawback to doing this and in most cases a payoff of a sizeable performance boost.
I don't know the innards of the engine used in STO, but I'm beginning to understand the reasons behind some of the issues with it.
Lightmaps are an ENTIRELY different system that we have never had in STO. The Shadows are dynamic because the lights that are casting them are dynamic. Whether the geometry is static or not is irrelevant. This is the way it's been from the start.
Lightmaps are pre-calculated textures/decals, nothing more. Most of the rendering and game engines I have ever worked on allow designers to set receive and cast shadow flags on individual objects. Details that are static and not being acted upon by dynamic lighting in a dynamic way (eg. moving light sources in the immediate vicinity) generally have dynamic shadows disabled and a static lightmap in place. There is practically no drawback to doing this and in most cases a payoff of a sizeable performance boost.
I don't know the innards of the engine used in STO, but I'm beginning to understand the reasons behind some of the issues with it.
Yeah but your example of exchange consoles is NOT static. Players do stuff.... If a player stands on the console, MOAR SHADOWZ! Players can also add light sources,,, such as Psionic command aura, among others...
Comments
Thank you for understanding. To confirm I was suffering from the graphics bug. I had all my sliders on max thinking the graphics was on max but after putting the sliders on low and back to max again the graphics improved a lot. Between that and not being aware some areas have not been worked on it explains why I thought the upgrade was so bad which it isn’t now its working correctly. I am much happier with the upgrade now I have seen it function correctly.
I still believe a few areas are too bright and the spooky missions like what "What lies beneath". and Elachi missions have lost their spooky atmospherics. Not sure why you said the word doesn’t mean what I think it does. I checked it means the mood of the area. It’s often used when talking about atmosphere and lighting. But what the word means doesn't matter, I was trying to say the spooky nature of those missions which was great has been lost in the transfer over to the new lighting.
I am not sure of the best way to deal with this but as players we don't know which areas are still being worked on, which haven't even been touched yet or which areas have been finished. For example if I had known most bridges hadn't been looked at yet I would have held off giving feedback. I know I sometimes complain a lot but I want to give useful feedback and I am not sure which parts of the game I should be looking at.
EDIT: Just flown my ship to a new mission and I love the new fire trail coming out the back of the ship and lighting everything up. I was getting none of this yesterday.
EDIT: Since the slider fix so far no close up shadows popping in and out. All been smooth transitions. Due to the fix most of what I was complaining about is no longer valid. The new lighting is not a giant step back. That was one horrible bug that made the lighting appear far worse then it really is.
EDIT3: I don't know if you changed the exchange yet on ESD but if you haven't it does not need looking at. Since the slider fix that's area is working correctly. No sudden shadow pops.
Yes, there's still plenty to be done.
"Atmospherics" is a pretty broad term. While you can use "Atmosphere" to describe how the inside of a restaurant feels, you can also use "Atmosphere" to describe the actual atmosphere. Both of those things are things that an Environment Artist (such as myself) would deal with, and both of which could be affected by lighting changes. So it's less that the word didn't mean what you think it means, and more that we needed more specific terms to narrow down what it was we're talking about.
The best way to go about it, is to keep posting when you see something that you think looks funky. Don't expect a reply on each one, some we may already know about. But some we may not, and you may be the only one to tell us.
I think the key is to shift your frame of thinking. You're on Tribble, a test server. Don't "complain" about how bad it looks, give us "feedback" about how we could make things better.
@tacofangs have you been on the kelvin connie bridge in the new lighting? i noticed that it is very "dark" at the captain's chair, while very "bright" on the floor right in front of the view screen. i have also noticed that you will have a strange "line" on your character cutting off the higher dark level from the lower lighter level.
I tried this out...wow, totally made a huge difference. The DS9 interior looks fantastic now! Very atmospheric, and much more like the show.
There are still a lot of spots that are blown out and too bright, and oddly it looks to me that the colors are muted in some locations - ESD being one of them. But overall, this "reset" seems to have forced things to work better for me.
I don't know the innards of the engine used in STO, but I'm beginning to understand the reasons behind some of the issues with it.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
My character Tsin'xing