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Next Expansion should advance the game time a few years....
kelshando
Member Posts: 887 Arc User
You think about it.. the in game time the Federation, KDF, Romulians have been at constant war and been taking on huge loss's over the last 18 months of game time...
I think they should make the next expansion take place 5 years from now or something.. showing a relative peace coming over the Alpha and Beta quadrants that would allow Federation to take a break from constant war footing to and the KDF and Romulians to rebuild and maybe solidify the alliance.. then hit them with a new threat to test them again.
I think they should make the next expansion take place 5 years from now or something.. showing a relative peace coming over the Alpha and Beta quadrants that would allow Federation to take a break from constant war footing to and the KDF and Romulians to rebuild and maybe solidify the alliance.. then hit them with a new threat to test them again.
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And to be clear, I've subtly played at advancing the time period ahead in the progression of my Foundry missions. Implicitly, if my first is 2409 then by my latest SSF you're probably at 2413 or 2414 for the necessary character arcs and faction moves to most sensibly happen. But there's only one time I've considered referencing it and I found it was a lot easier (in a concurrent MMO) just to move on with the story and not get bogged down by practical details. And honestly I think STO works best when it uses the same approach.
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I understand that it would be a "reset", I question what the actual value of that rest would be, the constraints it would have to work under in a concurrent MMO, and how much it would take to present it. Altogether, I don't think its a point that's necessary to make and it doesn't present any huge new opportunities for the story. Anything that could be written as happening after this 5 year gap could be written for 2410, only without the need to explain away this time period in a little selection of briefings and other conversations.
And I say that having worked at this problem before in this context. Maybe if Cryptic was launching a new game, an STO 2, then moving things ahead would carry fewer costs and open more opportunities. But over the course of a season or expansion, the jump from 2410 to 2415 is much more of a problem.
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Because of temporal shenanigans we never have to officially 'leave' 2410.
You want an adventure in 2415?
<Daniels pops in...>"Hey there's something wrong five years from now - we need your help"</Daniels>
But that would always have to involve some kind of temporal shenanigans (a big story constraint) and I don't think you'd be able to do more than a few episodes before the player would start asking "why does 2410 me have to take care of this? What's 2415 me up to that he/she can't be bothered to clean up their own time?"
If we really need a near future episode, sure that's the way to do it. But you'd only be able to do it in a limited way and under the current arc (ie. the one where Daniels sends us on fantastical temporal adventures. Coming into bother us during the great war with the First Federation over their Tranya mines, or whatever's coming next, would probably be a little distracting.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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In my own little RP head-canon it's 2416 in the game (going by the current STO stardate, which may vary from from other sources as they never really were consistent with the whole stardate system) and my character recently returned from a 5-year mission to "explore strange new worlds" and all that.
Oh please.. your over complicating it.... A entry vid just alike all the other expansions could explain it.. Such as..
Narrator voice: "It's been 5 years since peace was brought to the alpha quadrant" as it plays flash backs of past wars.
Narrator continues: "It has been a time of exploration and culture exchange, the Alliances forged in war have prospered in
peace. As the galaxy recovers from past struggles" Shows a scene of the leaders of the 3 factions shaking hands or such showing Romlians rebuilding and new ships leaving space docks of the KDF and Feds.
Narrator continues: On the frontier Captains explore new worlds and new threats....
Now you are in game with the first mission lets say exploreing a new undiscovered and come across a new threat or something happens to spark the next expansion...
it really isn't not this huge problem... you seem to try to be insinuating.
Keep the tone down, I'm pointing out that it doesn't get us anywhere (especially when your idea is simply for a rest and recuperation phase across the quadrant, not a dramatic shift in interspecies politics). So whatever complications the are (ex. one narration though I specifically mentioned handling it through in-game dialog, which takes even less to produce) they are in themselves prohibitive.
Minor problems, but no substantial benefit (as you saw from season 11, we moved onto to new worlds and new threats just fine). What would be needed is some kind of story that couldn't be adapted for 2410, but at the moment I can't envision one.
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My post is *against* actually doing this, I don't think the game needs the sort of change the OP suggests to occur.
If we don't time travel but simply move there naturally, all your shiny new 2410 equipment is now 5 years old.
I was just trying to point out that the end-result of time travel is we are all 'Sam' stuck in the "Quantum Leap" machine with Ziggy(Daniels) trying to 'fix' it.
Keep what tone done.. maybe you need to not be so sensitive.. as there was no "tone"
Star Trek was not about perpetual war that's why there needs to be a cool down between them... there is also nothing prohibitive about in game dialog.. as its used to set a scene.
its been 18 months in game time and there have been thousands of ships lost millions dead. yet there is nothing story wise of any of the faction reeling from these loss's... so a time break would allow a story reason why the factions still have the man power to keep war mongering around the galaxy.
it allows them to disengage from one war after another and allow the next expasions and give a little breathing room for things the players have done to show consequences. To expanded the universe.. maybe revamp some old zones.. like new Romulus...
I know. I was just trying to say that having Daniels or another time traveler come in for a quick jump would be the way to go if ever we want to explore another time period (regardless of what it may be). Individual stories with individual mechanics about how we get from A to B.
But I also went on to reinforce (in a general way, not specifically directed at your post) that this would still be an isolated way of moving through time. The OP's idea couldn't be adapted to it.
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Since when did Spock or Data start a sentence with "oh please." You weren't being toneless, you were re-flexing an attitude to try to reinforce your original point, restated. Stick to the facts without exclamations and this will remain a civil discussion (I'm fine with whatever you have to say but I'd rather have a constructive conversation. As much as you can say for any forum thread, its a much better use of time.)
Anyway, with that behind us we can move on. Star Trek is not about peace either. At no lasting point in Federation history were things truly settled. The Enterprise C was destroyed by Romulans at a time when we were supposedly at a sort-of-peace with the Klingons. And they broke that peace variously through the TNG and DS9 to produce dramatic story lines (remember what happened with the Enterprise D). And if its not Klingons (in groups or individually) taking shots at protagonists it's the Ferengi, Borg, Cardassians, or Dominion (not to mention all the aliens of the week). At some level there's always conflict because at no point does the Federation come to a perfect harmony with all other powers. It's reflective of the world for which the show was written.
The point is always to be striving not to be in conflict. The FED core principle is working to resolve difficult situations and that fact is also reflected in STO. We apparently made a bargain with the Undine to stop Cooper, allied with a group of Vaadwuar to stop Gual, reconciled 200,000 years of misunderstanding with some of the Iconians, and arrested Noye for what he chose to do without the consent of all his people.
The point is that we have a lot of diversity in the way conflict is handled and that is broadly in keeping with Star Trek. First Contact didn't need to start with a narration about how they had dealt with the fallout from the DS9 Klingon War. Insurrection even made the point explicitly that the FED's state of conflict isn't something to retreat from for the sake of easy alliances. It's immaterial to what the FED was trying to be. What we have here is the same message but without as many non-combat episodes as there were in show (because the format of this game is an action RPG. Non-combat is possible but it doesn't work as well, and consequently it doesn't happen anywhere near as frequently.)
But that's really a separate question from needing a "rest period." We don't, season 11 as I said moved on just fine without having to explain just how long the FED took reloading its torpedoes. And if that question really bothers you, consider that AOY and Season 11 only involved the player's ship across its arc, not the FED/KDF/ROM fleet of 2410. The important transition was in tone across the first few episodes and that's handled from moment to moment, mission to mission. No elaborated jump in time period is necessary to move on. It's a much more mechanical story telling process that's best served without unproductive complication (however slight it may be).
TL/DR: Staying in 2410 (or near to it, clicking the odometer over to 2411 wouldn't get in the way of anything) for the STO setting is perfectly appropriate for what the game is doing.
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I'm sorry do you just like to argue?
Nothing you have stated at all in any way shows that its to hard, not possible or any other excuse...
As far as saying we don't need a "rest period" or as I was saying a move forward in time.. as to much has happened into to short a time frame of game time.. do to this the STO universe is stagnet.. nothing you have done has an effect because they are not moving time forwards in a meaningful way.
You have ships that were state of the art at the start of STO and in less year of game time they are out dated.. and ships that shoud take years on the drawing board and testing are poped out left and right...
The game needs a sense of time and moveing forward... nothing you say changes that.. and nothing you say has proven that its to hard.. as in fact its not hard at all as you already pointed out it can easily be done with dialog... so in the end it just seems your here to argue.
And if you truly don't want to listen to other people, don't reply back. Let them make their point and move on with your own.
Now, back to discussion. What I said explains at length why there's no need to jump setting (which just shows my interest in the topic. As I said, I've considered it before.) What we have now is appropriate for Star Trek and the way this game applies the IP, as illustrated using specific examples from both the game and show. Time self-evidently moves on in the setting, as we cross these individual conflicts and story arcs, and the way to help that along isn't to get bogged down by the calendar.
The difference between 2409 and 2410 isn't as significant as the difference even just between the Iconian War arc and the Delta Rising arc. Quite literally, those dates are just labels on a sequence of events. So long as those events tell a consistent, well connected story specific dates might as well not be included (which is, by in large, how STO treats the calendar year.) Therefore moving to 2415 should only be considered if that jump represents a change of equal magnitude between story lines (since the story is what really matters). As it is you aren't really talking about that (just that it feels right to you), so there's really nothing else to do here but say "it's not a promising idea."
There's ways to make it a better idea (ex. what I just said in the previous paragraph), but you haven't listened to those so far so I guess that's it for the thread.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I would like an expansion that improves the core game instead of adding content.
Personally I would like to see old systems replaced (remove fixed classes and have a career skill path instead), improve the NPC A.I and skill variety they have.
Overhaul ground combat completely it makes no sense having dodge when you cannot dodge 99% of the skills as they are homing... I would like something closer to neverwinters ground combat.
Take a look at the damage creep that has plagued this game for years maybe its time to re balance the whole came just start over.
What your wanting is procedurally generated missions/worlds... ya that would be nice... also there should a sense of change when you have all these events.. such as the destruction of ESD to rebuild it... that was great it showed cause and effect but.. time frame just doesn't make sense...
ya I agree.. and there is no reason that cant do both.. well moving the time line forward.. would be a good time to revamp and maybe scale back the power creep.
/facepam..
What do you think I was talking about.. the point of moving the timeline is to effect change to the game... away to break the war after war and show some cause and effect... to make it more a breathing universe then stuck in its old stagnate rinse and repeat that been happening for 5 years and 18 months of in game time....
The problem is you are over complicating it.. so you can argue.. you make up excuse that are not grounded in any sort of facts...
Moving forward a couple year on the star date will not effect the ships being used or the technology of the game.. but will allow more freedom on story and the effects the players had in the events they were key in... its a simple story telling concept.
Well, first of all this is a huge tangent (because its a dead-horse topic in its own right
Exploration 2.0 would be cool but the question is what the devs can actually achieve and what would work for the format of STO. Could we have a randomized set of patrol missions? Sure can, that was exploration 1.0. But without dedicating the dev cycle of an entire game (as no man's sky and all its contemporaries have done) there's not much hope it could be populated with enough content that it could last the amount of time people are willing to put into those formats (Cryptic is a small dev and the cycle would be much shorter).
Just how can I say that? Look at Delta Rising. Even with an expansion behind it, the content produced for its patrols wasn't met with tremendous fanfare. And those have quite a number of randomized elements, including randomized enemy factions and supporting characters. What it lacked from "exploration" was randomized mission selection, but is that the core element that prevented these missions from being (generally regarded as) fun? Well, probably not. What was more likely a factor is that the gameplay offered by episodes, queues, and zones is (to simplify) better and what we've seen since then is Cryptic trying their best to play to STO's strengths (ie. richer episodes, more zones, and more elaborate queues.)
I'm sure there's some way of developing exploration for STO that I'd enjoy, but I can't really get behind the idea since I currently enjoy the current alternatives to exploration/patrols a lot more. I see the product as more likely being a dull departure from what makes STO (and for that matter ST) entertainment one can connect with.
Also, I'd add that Star Trek is better served with narrative stage drama (in the way of episodes), not the every day activities of planetary scanning. If we want Star Trek Online to develop, I think the place to start is the way stories are told and how deep they go, not the ancillary details surrounding them.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
1. Saying 5 years have passed (with no visual impact on setting, as you just described) is no way to show the player the universe has moved on in tone or content. A lot more is presented now simply in the organic progression of arcs and faction relationships. STO should continue to use this method (it has a lot more impact.)
2. Please name the specific story that couldn't be told in 2410 that could be told in 2415. I keep asking for this and you've yet to mention anything concrete that could justify the jump in timeframe (you seem to be stuck at vague generalities.) If you can't, then just leave this idea alone until someone can make the 2415 setting worth exploring. It could definitely be interesting (again, I've dabbled with these kinds of changes), but it needs a foundation and it needs a solid argument for why that story couldn't be handled in the game now.
As it is, STO has no apparent difficulty transitioning from one thing to another. I cite again the movement from DR to the Iconian war, and subsequently to the Temporal Cold War. There's plenty of flexibility on display across that span of game. We do a lot, involving many characters, circumstances, and factions, and where we are now has a lot of possibilities open to it. And I remind you again that the latter most arc is not just a rinse and repeat conflict for the FED/KDF/ROM because you are the only member (from 2410) involved (this is the nub of the conversation you have with Daniels at the end.)
These are the facts, you're free to consider them or not. But if you want to stay grounded you might want to try a more thoughtful approach (I know what you're trying to say in your main idea, but there's points that need work. That's all I'm saying.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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oh look the broken recorded is back...
You cant claim its to hard then throw it back at the person with your values and in factual rhetoric...
As you or I are not the writers.. and are not in any way having impute into the next expansion why would I have to come up with specifics on it.. what I can attest to is the total stagnate world STO has become.. do that move the time frame forward to take into account the past episodes and create an expansion that evolves the universe of STO is needed.. as stagnation leads to less playing.. as you get people just saying.. well its the same world, same game play nothing new...
Your ridiculous question of what couldn't be done in 2410 that could be in 2415 is childish argument.. as the same can be said in reverse what story in sto couldn't be told in 5 year increments... at least with time frame moving along it gives the perception that at least something other then warfare maybe be happening in the intern.. and how the Federation can keep losing thousands of ships and keep rebuilding.. and how new ships are being designed... vs hey lets have tier 3 generations of ships created in a year of game time...
You keep using the word facts... I don't think it means what you think it means...
Well, yes I can. I've looked at the problem of moving the STO timeframe while writing for STO foundry missions. There's definite problems with the idea. I looked at how the game worked and handled its story lines. I saw what it was able to achieve without particular attention to the date and I took a similar approach (around the 2410 setting). I found it worked quite in my stuff and over the past few seasons in Cryptic's. It avoids a lot of unnecessary complication while allowing for as much flexibility as you need to tell good stories. So I can say from the facts of the game in hand (and some basic principles of creative writing) that moving to 2415 in a single go isn't advisable without a good, complementary story line.
Now mind you, I could develop one pretty easily (I've gone a lot further in fact), but I'd need to play around with key faction relationships and do things that would reflect in other areas of the game. For example, available characters, ships, involved species, and personnel uniforms. You don't want to go that far (and we are just talking about an update to STO), so that's out. What we have instead is a rather weak idea (IMO) of merely moving the calendar forward and making a few statements about "moving on" in a cutscene. Nothing important changes, we're just told to feel differently about what happened during the last patch.
That's not good writing, which is why I've been trying to tell you to improve your idea. There's ways it can be done well, as I've implicitly done from the forth SSF on, but you need to put more thought into it.
And it is you who needs to work on this. It's your idea. Personally I don't think going to 2415 is necessary for the main game, and I'm perfectly comfortable letting the topic end here.
All of them.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Wait.. your whole opinion is based on your limited view of foundry mission that are locked in a time frame made by the game.... You know how laughable that argument is... your stuck using their tools... and you must be a very inept writer if you can't figure out how add dialog in a story to give the filling of passed time...
We are talking about an expansion not foundry missions...
Oh and ps.. all of the expansions could of had 5 years inbetween expansions...
but your ok with ESD being blown up and rebuilt instantly.. with no time frame given... you sir are bad at story telling if you think that its hard to write it in... let alone with a whole new expansion setting the frame work...
Nothing of note really happens between Delta Rising and the Iconian War, I suppose they could have gone to 2411 there.
Then I suppose we could have dragged out the Iconian War for 'Future Proof' to start in or near 2412.
Read on through the rest of that sentance. No, it isn't. I just pointed out my personal experience and the game itself (through quite a few examples). I've also been citing the franchise (for what's appropriate to present in style and content, a topic you've variously brought up) and I've been referencing principles of creative writing on the side.
What do you have? That's a serious question. Focus on what you can actually support yourself by.
I just hope someone who's played Eons reads this statement.
I'm really not trying to harsh your buzz when it comes to this thread, just have a discussion about the way setting is applied to the game. You were completely free to let my original reply slide if you really didn't want to hear it. It was a self contained point that stood as my opinion about the topic. That would have been that but you chose to have a conversation instead. If you want to take the low road, well that's fine but I don't know exactly what you're hoping to achieve by it.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!