There were never settlement talks for Peters to sabotage, neither offered nor intended.
Again, Settlement talks were a requirement by the Judge before he would take the case to trial. They were scheduled as part of the whole case structure. It's a very common requirement for judges to issue in civil lawsuits that both parties must hold settlement talks. The settlement talks were scheduled for the week after Axanar filed their countersuit, and had been scheduled for a year beforehand.
So yes, settlement talks were supposed to happen. The date was set by the court. CBS/Paramount didn't have to offer talks because it was a court requirement, but they were going to happen. That is, until Peters counter-sued and made a settlement legally impossible, making the whole exercise obsolete.
There were never settlement talks for Peters to sabotage, neither offered nor intended.
Again, Settlement talks were a requirement by the Judge before he would take the case to trial. They were scheduled as part of the whole case structure. It's a very common requirement for judges to issue in civil lawsuits that both parties must hold settlement talks. The settlement talks were scheduled for the week after Axanar filed their countersuit, and had been scheduled for a year beforehand.
So yes, settlement talks were supposed to happen. The date was set by the court. CBS/Paramount didn't have to offer talks because it was a court requirement, but they were going to happen. That is, until Peters counter-sued and made a settlement legally impossible, making the whole exercise obsolete.
Settlement talks were recommended, but never scheduled. Axanar's several attempts to reach settlements have all been rejected. For CBS, the only settlement option has been, "Don't make a movie." There were never settlement talks for Axanar to ruin with their filing. Between the JJ & Lin announcement and the court filings, CBS announced they were working on guidelines which would settle the issue, but Axanar had no seat at the table, and the guidelines as presented precluded any chance to complete Axanar.
Please link me to the news outlet that has information on these scheduled talks, as I cannot find them. All I can find are assertions that CBS couldn't settle due to the claim, but nowhere can I find evidence they ever intended to do so.
Renegades has adapted and will still go ahead without ST and Continues looks like it may continue (hehe) as it is. But has anybody from Phase II or Horizon said what they'll do? Are their projects dead. And what of Star Wreck?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Renegades has adapted and will still go ahead without ST and Continues looks like it may continue (hehe) as it is. But has anybody from Phase II or Horizon said what they'll do? Are their projects dead. And what of Star Wreck?
Parody is protected speech; C/P cannot legally do anything to Star Wreck.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The only act of redemption Peters has left at this point is to completely come ckean that he was scamming his donators, had no intention of actually making Axanar & that he was illegally profiting from the use of an IP he did not own. While he may have had a legal right to defend himself, much like the American white supremacist groups have a legal right to spew their vile hatred, he did not have any moral ground to do so. Sadly con men never learn until they are caught, & sometimes not then.
You seem very sure that Mr. Peters didn't intend to make a movie, but you have presented no evidence to back your assertions.
Mr. Peters filmed two promotional videos, one of which was advertised as a scene from the movie. He rented space and began construction of a set. He hired actors, a producer, and other movie making types. He continued to make optomistic posts about the behind-the-scenes progress toward making that movie.
The lawsuit was filed by CBS just two weeks before shooting was scheduled to begin. The current lack of progress is not an indication of lack of intent to make a movie. It is due to the attempt on Axanar's part to avoid making a bad situation worse.
I have heard many such assertions, but few of them have any substance. They appear to me to be cases of kicking a man when he's down. Perhaps Mr. Peters is the bad man I've read about here and elsewhere. I don't know him. Even if he is a complete jerk, that is not evidence that he tried to scam anyone.
Mr. Peters is the guy who bought and restored the shell of the Shuttlecraft Gallileo prop, back when nobody knew who he was. His start in Trek FanFic came when it was discovered that he owned a Fleet Captain uniform he bought at auction. He is a Trek fan.
My personal opinion is that he had a $200,000 movie idea and got $600,000 in donations, then got carried away in his enthuiasm. It's easy to get a swelled head when people throw money at you.
I don't know where the vitriol being spewed at Mr. Peters comes from, but when I see it from Star Trek fans, directed at other Star Trek fans, I wonder whatever happened to the dream. You know, where all humans are tolerant of the foibles of others, and where we help a neighbor when he falls flat on his face while trying to achieve his dream. We don't ridicule him for failing, but praise him for trying.
The only act of redemption Peters has left at this point is to completely come ckean that he was scamming his donators, had no intention of actually making Axanar & that he was illegally profiting from the use of an IP he did not own. While he may have had a legal right to defend himself, much like the American white supremacist groups have a legal right to spew their vile hatred, he did not have any moral ground to do so. Sadly con men never learn until they are caught, & sometimes not then.
You seem very sure that Mr. Peters didn't intend to make a movie, but you have presented no evidence to back your assertions.
Mr. Peters filmed two promotional videos, one of which was advertised as a scene from the movie. He rented space and began construction of a set. He hired actors, a producer, and other movie making types. He continued to make optomistic posts about the behind-the-scenes progress toward making that movie.
The lawsuit was filed by CBS just two weeks before shooting was scheduled to begin. The current lack of progress is not an indication of lack of intent to make a movie. It is due to the attempt on Axanar's part to avoid making a bad situation worse.
I have heard many such assertions, but few of them have any substance. They appear to me to be cases of kicking a man when he's down. Perhaps Mr. Peters is the bad man I've read about here and elsewhere. I don't know him. Even if he is a complete jerk, that is not evidence that he tried to scam anyone.
Mr. Peters is the guy who bought and restored the shell of the Shuttlecraft Gallileo prop, back when nobody knew who he was. His start in Trek FanFic came when it was discovered that he owned a Fleet Captain uniform he bought at auction. He is a Trek fan.
My personal opinion is that he had a $200,000 movie idea and got $600,000 in donations, then got carried away in his enthuiasm. It's easy to get a swelled head when people throw money at you.
I don't know where the vitriol being spewed at Mr. Peters comes from, but when I see it from Star Trek fans, directed at other Star Trek fans, I wonder whatever happened to the dream. You know, where all humans are tolerant of the foibles of others, and where we help a neighbor when he falls flat on his face while trying to achieve his dream. We don't ridicule him for failing, but praise him for trying.
Smart Aleck Peters was paying himself and some of his team members a $38,000 salary out of the donated funds and trying to build a for-profit movie studio. That's not amateur fan filmmaking, it's objectively theft and intellectual property infringement by any standard. That's where the vitriol being spewed at Mr. Peters comes from: his own objectively illegal actions using the Star Trek name.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
What IS suspicious is WHY Peters chose that date to begin filming. He apparently set the date for filming just to drag out the production. Prelude was produced in a fraction of the time that Peters spent doing fundraisers for the main Axanar movie.
Fundraisers like selling "Star Trek: Axanar" brand coffee....
He profited? Profit results when sales exceed cost to produce. Since production was halted by issues beyond his control, you cannot therefore claim it was never intended that he spend the money on the project.
The same applies to the studio space he leased and began to retrofit for use as a sound stage. Sure, he announced he would use the studio after filming of the movie. Was he supposed to destroy it? Making it easier for fans to find a studio where their fan films can be made seems to me to be a good deal for small film makers. If there had never been funds available for the warehouse nicknamed Ares Studios, there would still have been the need for renting space and equipment, and the fans' money would still have had to be spent, and there would have been no legacy to benefit future fan films. Should Continues destroy their recreation of the Connie Bridge between episodes to prove they never intend to use it for profit?
Now, payroll. Red Cross is a not-for-profit enterprise which pays many employees. In fact, most non-profit entities pay people for their time and expertise. It is neither illegal nor unethical for them to do so. Salaries are not profit, they are wages.
As for the timing: it was well publicised long before, and the date didn't change. CBS timed their suit without asking Mr. Peters. Insinuating he was responsible is to claim he specifically intended that CBS do what they never did before, and to do it before shooting began a mere two weeks later. I cannot fathom how one would even go about setting up that scam. The scenario would require collusion between the two parties. Obviously, Axanar had an inside man. The script for such a scam would be more complex than the heist in Ocean's Eleven.
And speaking of scripts...
Please link me to a news site or court document that claims Mr. Peters said there was no script. The claim made by Axanar's defense team is that there is as yet no FILM. There are many, including Mr. Peters, who have spoken publicly of the script, but I can find no documents claiming Mr. Peters denied having a script to the court. The defense team claimed you cannot claim infringement until the film actually exists, which motion the judge denied.
Again, I don't know Mr. Peters personally, so I cannot support or refute accusations about his personality or management style. I did see him act, and I agree with Mr. Peters when he said he was not a good enough actor to play Garth in his own movie. He posted long ago that the part would be played by a professional actor.
He profited? Profit results when sales exceed cost to produce. Since production was halted by issues beyond his control, you cannot therefore claim it was never intended that he spend the money on the project.
The same applies to the studio space he leased and began to retrofit for use as a sound stage. Sure, he announced he would use the studio after filming of the movie. Was he supposed to destroy it? Making it easier for fans to find a studio where their fan films can be made seems to me to be a good deal for small film makers. If there had never been funds available for the warehouse nicknamed Ares Studios, there would still have been the need for renting space and equipment, and the fans' money would still have had to be spent, and there would have been no legacy to benefit future fan films. Should Continues destroy their recreation of the Connie Bridge between episodes to prove they never intend to use it for profit?
Now, payroll. Red Cross is a not-for-profit enterprise which pays many employees. In fact, most non-profit entities pay people for their time and expertise. It is neither illegal nor unethical for them to do so. Salaries are not profit, they are wages.
Apples and oranges. The Red Cross does not use another organization's intellectual property to attract donations to pay its employees and executives without acquiring formal legal permission to do so.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Frankly I think brian is just trolling at this point. He keeps making easily disproved statements, such as claiming Peters restored the galileo, and when called out about it he ignores it and has not once yet admitted to being wrong.
As for permission, Axanar did nothing that others have not done before, and those other operations were not sued. Any reasonable person would expect similar treatment. CBS/Paramount never 'allowed' Phase II/ New Voyages to film, but then neither did they prohibit it. You can currently tour their standing sets. Did Phase II steal intellectual property for profit?
CBS never stopped their production, nor blinked at their fundraising. It was reasonable for Mr. Peters to assume similar treatment of his project.
Frankly I think brian is just trolling at this point. He keeps making easily disproved statements, such as claiming Peters restored the galileo, and when called out about it he ignores it and has not once yet admitted to being wrong.
As for permission, Axanar did nothing that others have not done before, and those other operations were not sued. Any reasonable person would expect similar treatment. CBS/Paramount never 'allowed' Phase II/ New Voyages to film, but then neither did they prohibit it. You can currently tour their standing sets. Did Phase II steal intellectual property for profit?
CBS never stopped their production, nor blinked at their fundraising. It was reasonable for Mr. Peters to assume similar treatment of his project.
None of the other operations dangled the bait of a Trek project, to get money to be used to make a for-profit production facility which would be used to make other non-Trek projects (as an active film studio) after Axanar was produced! (if the intent to film it even existed)
Did Mignona or Cawley throw away the cameras they used, or demolish the studio they built? What are they supposed to do with the leftovers when shooting ends? In the specific case of Ares Studio, if it is cheaper to build your own set rather than rent someone elses, (and work around their schedule,) then it is only common sense to build your own. Well, what do you do with it afterward? Mr. Cawley turned his into a museum, but he still owns it.
Did Mignona or Cawley throw away the cameras they used, or demolish the studio they built? What are they supposed to do with the leftovers when shooting ends? In the specific case of Ares Studio, if it is cheaper to build your own set rather than rent someone elses, (and work around their schedule,) then it is only common sense to build your own. Well, what do you do with it afterward? Mr. Cawley turned his into a museum, but he still owns it.
They put their own money into the productions. I believe, that as you say, Mr. Cawley owns it. It's his property, from his dime. Same with Continues... Largely paid for, initially, by Mr.Mignogna himself.
You're also missing the key difference... Mssrs Cawley and Mignogna actually produced the work they said they wanted to produce... All Saint Alec did was pull in a million bucks because he wanted his own film studio so he could play producer. He pulled in that million bucks on the promise of Axanar, and as these precedings conclusively prove, there wasn't even a finished script. He had people money for that long, and had failed to produce the work he said he needed the money to produce... Stop defending the man, he is quite literally indefensible, and probably belongs behind bars for obtaining funds by deception. At least Diana's no longer with him anymore, she clearly saw him for the lying spiv he is...
Ok, so I had to comb through 2 dozen articles about the galileo restoration to find 2 that even mentioned Peters so hey I was wrong he was involved in a minor capacity. From what I can glean he provided photos to help in the work and thats about it. Unlike some claims he was neither the purchaser of the prop nor the primary motivator of the project nor the bankroll for the project. So basically, big whoop, he did something half the people on this forum could have done better.
Now when is brian going to admit he was wrong in his claim that the axanar counter- suit was filed months before the statements from JJ rather than days after those statements? Remember the statement from JJ was on May 20th & the counter- suit was filed May 23rd.
Already did that a few pages back. Keep up.
When are you going to admit that there were never any scheduled settlement talks, which you claimed were offered, and which that countersuit was supposed to have sabotaged? The only attempts to settle came from Axanar days after the original complaint was filed, and they were rejected by CBS. That is what I referred to as coming months before the countersuit filed this summer.
I'd also like to comment on Marcus' 'Saint Alec' comment. I don't know the guy personally, so I have no idea what he is like as a person. I am, however, extremely dismayed by the degree of personal attack. Ad hominem attacks were once the last refuge of someone who lost the argument. By focusing the debate on personality, substance can easilt be ignored. The argument goes, 'He is bad and deserves misfortune,' without ever giving the issue itself a fair hearing. Mr. Peters may be a complete jerk, but that has nothing at all to do with making a movie.
There were never settlement talks for Peters to sabotage, neither offered nor intended.
Again, Settlement talks were a requirement by the Judge before he would take the case to trial. They were scheduled as part of the whole case structure. It's a very common requirement for judges to issue in civil lawsuits that both parties must hold settlement talks. The settlement talks were scheduled for the week after Axanar filed their countersuit, and had been scheduled for a year beforehand.
So yes, settlement talks were supposed to happen. The date was set by the court. CBS/Paramount didn't have to offer talks because it was a court requirement, but they were going to happen. That is, until Peters counter-sued and made a settlement legally impossible, making the whole exercise obsolete.
Settlement talks were recommended, but never scheduled. Axanar's several attempts to reach settlements have all been rejected. For CBS, the only settlement option has been, "Don't make a movie." There were never settlement talks for Axanar to ruin with their filing. Between the JJ & Lin announcement and the court filings, CBS announced they were working on guidelines which would settle the issue, but Axanar had no seat at the table, and the guidelines as presented precluded any chance to complete Axanar.
Please link me to the news outlet that has information on these scheduled talks, as I cannot find them. All I can find are assertions that CBS couldn't settle due to the claim, but nowhere can I find evidence they ever intended to do so.
It was part of the multiple scheduling conferences held over the course of the lawsuit. Part of the scheduling conference was that both sides had to discuss alternative resolutions to the lawsuit. They may not be called settlement talks, but they are effectively the same thing.
Also, Alec Peters and Co were demanding CBS provide fan film guidelines after JJ and Lin 'intervened' and before CBS announced any such guidelines were in the pipeline.
I'd also like to comment on Marcus' 'Saint Alec' comment. I don't know the guy personally, so I have no idea what he is like as a person. I am, however, extremely dismayed by the degree of personal attack. Ad hominem attacks were once the last refuge of someone who lost the argument. By focusing the debate on personality, substance can easilt be ignored. The argument goes, 'He is bad and deserves misfortune,' without ever giving the issue itself a fair hearing. Mr. Peters may be a complete jerk, but that has nothing at all to do with making a movie.
Yawn... I really don't understand why you are white knighting and defending the honor of this scammer. He deserves nothing but contempt, and you have been told that by several people, who have cited various reasons for just how and why Alec Peters is in the wrong. The only one who has lost the argument, is you, ergo it doesn't matter what I resort to. What truly is the last resort of a lost argument, is criticising the comment another person makes, and the way they make it, rather than addressing the content of said comment...
He absolutely is a complete jerk, and if the evidence is anything to go by, he was never going to make a movie anyway, just scam people for money so he could revive his flagging prop-selling business, and build a studio so he could play movie producer. When someone asks money for X, then uses it for Y, they open themselves to critique, ridicule and scorn...
I'd also like to comment on Marcus' 'Saint Alec' comment. I don't know the guy personally, so I have no idea what he is like as a person. I am, however, extremely dismayed by the degree of personal attack. Ad hominem attacks were once the last refuge of someone who lost the argument. By focusing the debate on personality, substance can easilt be ignored. The argument goes, 'He is bad and deserves misfortune,' without ever giving the issue itself a fair hearing. Mr. Peters may be a complete jerk, but that has nothing at all to do with making a movie.
Yawn... I really don't understand why you are white knighting and defending the honor of this scammer. He deserves nothing but contempt, and you have been told that by several people, who have cited various reasons for just how and why Alec Peters is in the wrong. The only one who has lost the argument, is you, ergo it doesn't matter what I resort to. What truly is the last resort of a lost argument, is criticising the comment another person makes, and the way they make it, rather than addressing the content of said comment...
He absolutely is a complete jerk, and if the evidence is anything to go by, he was never going to make a movie anyway, just scam people for money so he could revive his flagging prop-selling business, and build a studio so he could play movie producer. When someone asks money for X, then uses it for Y, they open themselves to critique, ridicule and scorn...
Personality has nothing to do with competence. You have offered no evidence that he was never going to make the movie, yet all of your accusations are based on that. So far, aside from repeating outright, and easily disproven lies generated by Axanar/Peters haters and personal attacks based on third party reports you have presented no evidence whatsoever to support your opinion. You have simply jumped on the hater bandwagon and are now using character assassination to discredit the man.
It is very easy to go on the internet and bad mouth someone. It has even become acceptable. When I was growing up you risked a fist in the mouth for doing so, but now the internet allows complete cads the opportunity to say anything without rear of reprisal.
But you have not proven any of the points you tried to make. Not a single one. When a point is refuted, you dismiss the refutation by calling me stupid. But I support my arguments, and I don't resort to name-calling.
The truth is, I don't see any evidence that Mr. Peters intended to scam anyone. What I see is people using hindsight and negative spin to rewrite the story so that there is a villain in it. (The other side is doing the same by denigrating CBS, by the way.) There may well be a villain in this tale, but it is neither CBS nor Mr.Peters, who were each looking after their own interests. The true villain is that segment of the fan base who rushed to judgement and condemned a man, not for what he did, but for what they imagined he did.
Accusations are easy to make, and having been made, difficult to live down. It really doesn't matter if they are true or not. Once made, they never go away, and cast their shadow on a person long afterward. One should be careful about spreading accusations around. There is a court that will rule on the issue if the two parties can't settle. Let that court do its thing.
And pray to whatever gods you hold dear that you never find yourself the subject of such a campaign of speculation, innuendo, and lies.
I'd also like to comment on Marcus' 'Saint Alec' comment. I don't know the guy personally, so I have no idea what he is like as a person. I am, however, extremely dismayed by the degree of personal attack. Ad hominem attacks were once the last refuge of someone who lost the argument. By focusing the debate on personality, substance can easilt be ignored. The argument goes, 'He is bad and deserves misfortune,' without ever giving the issue itself a fair hearing. Mr. Peters may be a complete jerk, but that has nothing at all to do with making a movie.
Yawn... I really don't understand why you are white knighting and defending the honor of this scammer. He deserves nothing but contempt, and you have been told that by several people, who have cited various reasons for just how and why Alec Peters is in the wrong. The only one who has lost the argument, is you, ergo it doesn't matter what I resort to. What truly is the last resort of a lost argument, is criticising the comment another person makes, and the way they make it, rather than addressing the content of said comment...
He absolutely is a complete jerk, and if the evidence is anything to go by, he was never going to make a movie anyway, just scam people for money so he could revive his flagging prop-selling business, and build a studio so he could play movie producer. When someone asks money for X, then uses it for Y, they open themselves to critique, ridicule and scorn...
Personality has nothing to do with competence. You have offered no evidence that he was never going to make the movie, yet all of your accusations are based on that. So far, aside from repeating outright, and easily disproven lies generated by Axanar/Peters haters and personal attacks based on third party reports you have presented no evidence whatsoever to support your opinion. You have simply jumped on the hater bandwagon and are now using character assassination to discredit the man.
It is very easy to go on the internet and bad mouth someone. It has even become acceptable. When I was growing up you risked a fist in the mouth for doing so, but now the internet allows complete cads the opportunity to say anything without rear of reprisal.
But you have not proven any of the points you tried to make. Not a single one. When a point is refuted, you dismiss the refutation by calling me stupid. But I support my arguments, and I don't resort to name-calling.
The truth is, I don't see any evidence that Mr. Peters intended to scam anyone. What I see is people using hindsight and negative spin to rewrite the story so that there is a villain in it. (The other side is doing the same by denigrating CBS, by the way.) There may well be a villain in this tale, but it is neither CBS nor Mr.Peters, who were each looking after their own interests. The true villain is that segment of the fan base who rushed to judgement and condemned a man, not for what he did, but for what they imagined he did.
Accusations are easy to make, and having been made, difficult to live down. It really doesn't matter if they are true or not. Once made, they never go away, and cast their shadow on a person long afterward. One should be careful about spreading accusations around. There is a court that will rule on the issue if the two parties can't settle. Let that court do its thing.
And pray to whatever gods you hold dear that you never find yourself the subject of such a campaign of speculation, innuendo, and lies.
What you've said, or at least the moral principle of what you're saying, is true (although I haven't called you stupid: I simply don't get why you are white-knighting Alec Peters...) Now, with regards Alec Peters, have a read of this, and see if you still think that everyone who has something bad to say about him is just making it up...
I don't know Mr. Peters, and could care less about him outside the Axanar movie, the concept of which fascinates me. Perhaps the end result would not have lived up to the promise, but that's nothing new for a Trek fan.
But if the issue is that Mr. Peters deserves what happened because he is a jerk, then most of Hollywood should be burned to the ground. The personality of the artist, producer, or cameraman is irrelevant.
Claims of criminal behavior and intent in this matter are at best speculative. The suit never made a claim of criminal acts or intents, and all such claims come from the speculations of a group that has defined Mr. Peters so with no proof, or even evidence, that there is any merit to theri claims.
As for White Knighting, I admit to that, but not on the behalf of Mr. Peters, whom I have never met in any capacity. I am advocating against character assassination. You see, I have been the victim of such a campaign, the result of which was the loss of a very good job. There were people who knew the truth and, for fear of their own jobs, kept silent. I will never sit back and watch it happen to someone else. It is not only the openly spoken lies of those of ill intent, but the silence of those who know better that allows evil to prosper.
He profited? Profit results when sales exceed cost to produce. Since production was halted by issues beyond his control, you cannot therefore claim it was never intended that he spend the money on the project.
The same applies to the studio space he leased and began to retrofit for use as a sound stage. Sure, he announced he would use the studio after filming of the movie. Was he supposed to destroy it? Making it easier for fans to find a studio where their fan films can be made seems to me to be a good deal for small film makers. If there had never been funds available for the warehouse nicknamed Ares Studios, there would still have been the need for renting space and equipment, and the fans' money would still have had to be spent, and there would have been no legacy to benefit future fan films. Should Continues destroy their recreation of the Connie Bridge between episodes to prove they never intend to use it for profit?
Now, payroll. Red Cross is a not-for-profit enterprise which pays many employees. In fact, most non-profit entities pay people for their time and expertise. It is neither illegal nor unethical for them to do so. Salaries are not profit, they are wages.
As for the timing: it was well publicised long before, and the date didn't change. CBS timed their suit without asking Mr. Peters. Insinuating he was responsible is to claim he specifically intended that CBS do what they never did before, and to do it before shooting began a mere two weeks later. I cannot fathom how one would even go about setting up that scam. The scenario would require collusion between the two parties. Obviously, Axanar had an inside man. The script for such a scam would be more complex than the heist in Ocean's Eleven.
And speaking of scripts...
Please link me to a news site or court document that claims Mr. Peters said there was no script. The claim made by Axanar's defense team is that there is as yet no FILM. There are many, including Mr. Peters, who have spoken publicly of the script, but I can find no documents claiming Mr. Peters denied having a script to the court. The defense team claimed you cannot claim infringement until the film actually exists, which motion the judge denied.
Again, I don't know Mr. Peters personally, so I cannot support or refute accusations about his personality or management style. I did see him act, and I agree with Mr. Peters when he said he was not a good enough actor to play Garth in his own movie. He posted long ago that the part would be played by a professional actor.
Alec Peters has benefited financially - or do you think the warehouse studio he's renovated using donor funds and uses as storage space for his Propworx auction business was just donated by it's landlord? And since Alec peters paid himself (and his girlfriend at the time a salary; used donor funds to pay his personal SAG union dues, and also used those same funds to travel to, pay entry fees to and for all the various Conventions where he exhibited Prelude publicly - all claiming it was to promote for more donations...) -- In other words evidence abounds that Alec Peters used the Star Trek IP illegally and saw personal financial gain as a result -- and that aspect was ALSO present in CBS/Paramount's lawsuit filing. If you bother to read it, 'profit' isn't mentioned anywhere; but 'direct financial gain' is - and it's what Alec Peters has experienced by making illegal use of the Star Trek IP.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I don't know Mr. Peters, and could care less about him outside the Axanar movie, the concept of which fascinates me. Perhaps the end result would not have lived up to the promise, but that's nothing new for a Trek fan.
But if the issue is that Mr. Peters deserves what happened because he is a jerk, then most of Hollywood should be burned to the ground. The personality of the artist, producer, or cameraman is irrelevant.
Claims of criminal behavior and intent in this matter are at best speculative. The suit never made a claim of criminal acts or intents, and all such claims come from the speculations of a group that has defined Mr. Peters so with no proof, or even evidence, that there is any merit to theri claims.
As for White Knighting, I admit to that, but not on the behalf of Mr. Peters, whom I have never met in any capacity. I am advocating against character assassination. You see, I have been the victim of such a campaign, the result of which was the loss of a very good job. There were people who knew the truth and, for fear of their own jobs, kept silent. I will never sit back and watch it happen to someone else. It is not only the openly spoken lies of those of ill intent, but the silence of those who know better that allows evil to prosper.
Asking for money to do X, and doing Y, is called 'obtaining funds by deception: A criminal act. Pointing it out, is not a character assassination. It seems, that that is something which Alec Peters specializes in, according to that link I posted for you to read... Comments which are true, are not libelous or slanderous...
Believing that there was never a plan to actually make Axanar is indeed supposition, but given that there is allegedly still no finalised script, it is beyond idle speculation, and into the realm of an educated guess...
When someone behaves in a dishonest manner by, oh, I don't know, manipulating a fandom's good will to obtain money by deception (ie asking for money to make a specific film, and then using that money to build a studio which will make countless other for profit films) and insults, ridicules and criticizes the people who actually do the work one is claiming credit for, then that is not character assassination: As Worf so aptly once put it, you cannot tarnish a rusty blade...
Don't allow your own experiences to cloud your judgement. Unless you somehow brought those circumstwnces upon yourself and axtually deserved to lose your job and deserved to have no one stand up for you, your situation is likely nothing like Alec Peters', so you shouldn't compare yourself in such a way, or allow it to make you defend him. He
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Again, Settlement talks were a requirement by the Judge before he would take the case to trial. They were scheduled as part of the whole case structure. It's a very common requirement for judges to issue in civil lawsuits that both parties must hold settlement talks. The settlement talks were scheduled for the week after Axanar filed their countersuit, and had been scheduled for a year beforehand.
So yes, settlement talks were supposed to happen. The date was set by the court. CBS/Paramount didn't have to offer talks because it was a court requirement, but they were going to happen. That is, until Peters counter-sued and made a settlement legally impossible, making the whole exercise obsolete.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Settlement talks were recommended, but never scheduled. Axanar's several attempts to reach settlements have all been rejected. For CBS, the only settlement option has been, "Don't make a movie." There were never settlement talks for Axanar to ruin with their filing. Between the JJ & Lin announcement and the court filings, CBS announced they were working on guidelines which would settle the issue, but Axanar had no seat at the table, and the guidelines as presented precluded any chance to complete Axanar.
Please link me to the news outlet that has information on these scheduled talks, as I cannot find them. All I can find are assertions that CBS couldn't settle due to the claim, but nowhere can I find evidence they ever intended to do so.
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Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
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You seem very sure that Mr. Peters didn't intend to make a movie, but you have presented no evidence to back your assertions.
Mr. Peters filmed two promotional videos, one of which was advertised as a scene from the movie. He rented space and began construction of a set. He hired actors, a producer, and other movie making types. He continued to make optomistic posts about the behind-the-scenes progress toward making that movie.
The lawsuit was filed by CBS just two weeks before shooting was scheduled to begin. The current lack of progress is not an indication of lack of intent to make a movie. It is due to the attempt on Axanar's part to avoid making a bad situation worse.
I have heard many such assertions, but few of them have any substance. They appear to me to be cases of kicking a man when he's down. Perhaps Mr. Peters is the bad man I've read about here and elsewhere. I don't know him. Even if he is a complete jerk, that is not evidence that he tried to scam anyone.
Mr. Peters is the guy who bought and restored the shell of the Shuttlecraft Gallileo prop, back when nobody knew who he was. His start in Trek FanFic came when it was discovered that he owned a Fleet Captain uniform he bought at auction. He is a Trek fan.
My personal opinion is that he had a $200,000 movie idea and got $600,000 in donations, then got carried away in his enthuiasm. It's easy to get a swelled head when people throw money at you.
I don't know where the vitriol being spewed at Mr. Peters comes from, but when I see it from Star Trek fans, directed at other Star Trek fans, I wonder whatever happened to the dream. You know, where all humans are tolerant of the foibles of others, and where we help a neighbor when he falls flat on his face while trying to achieve his dream. We don't ridicule him for failing, but praise him for trying.
Dude, he broke the law by profiting off an IP he had no rights to. That is a fact, as shown by the financial report he himself put out three days before the lawsuit was filed. That is the timing you should be paying attention to.
Smart Aleck Peters was paying himself and some of his team members a $38,000 salary out of the donated funds and trying to build a for-profit movie studio. That's not amateur fan filmmaking, it's objectively theft and intellectual property infringement by any standard. That's where the vitriol being spewed at Mr. Peters comes from: his own objectively illegal actions using the Star Trek name.
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Fundraisers like selling "Star Trek: Axanar" brand coffee....
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The same applies to the studio space he leased and began to retrofit for use as a sound stage. Sure, he announced he would use the studio after filming of the movie. Was he supposed to destroy it? Making it easier for fans to find a studio where their fan films can be made seems to me to be a good deal for small film makers. If there had never been funds available for the warehouse nicknamed Ares Studios, there would still have been the need for renting space and equipment, and the fans' money would still have had to be spent, and there would have been no legacy to benefit future fan films. Should Continues destroy their recreation of the Connie Bridge between episodes to prove they never intend to use it for profit?
Now, payroll. Red Cross is a not-for-profit enterprise which pays many employees. In fact, most non-profit entities pay people for their time and expertise. It is neither illegal nor unethical for them to do so. Salaries are not profit, they are wages.
As for the timing: it was well publicised long before, and the date didn't change. CBS timed their suit without asking Mr. Peters. Insinuating he was responsible is to claim he specifically intended that CBS do what they never did before, and to do it before shooting began a mere two weeks later. I cannot fathom how one would even go about setting up that scam. The scenario would require collusion between the two parties. Obviously, Axanar had an inside man. The script for such a scam would be more complex than the heist in Ocean's Eleven.
And speaking of scripts...
Please link me to a news site or court document that claims Mr. Peters said there was no script. The claim made by Axanar's defense team is that there is as yet no FILM. There are many, including Mr. Peters, who have spoken publicly of the script, but I can find no documents claiming Mr. Peters denied having a script to the court. The defense team claimed you cannot claim infringement until the film actually exists, which motion the judge denied.
Again, I don't know Mr. Peters personally, so I cannot support or refute accusations about his personality or management style. I did see him act, and I agree with Mr. Peters when he said he was not a good enough actor to play Garth in his own movie. He posted long ago that the part would be played by a professional actor.
This is not hear say, Todd said so.
http://www.axanarproductions.com/ares-studios-launches/
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This is funny, because any perusal of the internet will reveal Mr. Peters' involvement.
http://www.space.com/20953-star-trek-shuttlecraft-galileo-superfans.html
As for permission, Axanar did nothing that others have not done before, and those other operations were not sued. Any reasonable person would expect similar treatment. CBS/Paramount never 'allowed' Phase II/ New Voyages to film, but then neither did they prohibit it. You can currently tour their standing sets. Did Phase II steal intellectual property for profit?
CBS never stopped their production, nor blinked at their fundraising. It was reasonable for Mr. Peters to assume similar treatment of his project.
You're also missing the key difference... Mssrs Cawley and Mignogna actually produced the work they said they wanted to produce... All Saint Alec did was pull in a million bucks because he wanted his own film studio so he could play producer. He pulled in that million bucks on the promise of Axanar, and as these precedings conclusively prove, there wasn't even a finished script. He had people money for that long, and had failed to produce the work he said he needed the money to produce... Stop defending the man, he is quite literally indefensible, and probably belongs behind bars for obtaining funds by deception. At least Diana's no longer with him anymore, she clearly saw him for the lying spiv he is...
Already did that a few pages back. Keep up.
When are you going to admit that there were never any scheduled settlement talks, which you claimed were offered, and which that countersuit was supposed to have sabotaged? The only attempts to settle came from Axanar days after the original complaint was filed, and they were rejected by CBS. That is what I referred to as coming months before the countersuit filed this summer.
I'd also like to comment on Marcus' 'Saint Alec' comment. I don't know the guy personally, so I have no idea what he is like as a person. I am, however, extremely dismayed by the degree of personal attack. Ad hominem attacks were once the last refuge of someone who lost the argument. By focusing the debate on personality, substance can easilt be ignored. The argument goes, 'He is bad and deserves misfortune,' without ever giving the issue itself a fair hearing. Mr. Peters may be a complete jerk, but that has nothing at all to do with making a movie.
It was part of the multiple scheduling conferences held over the course of the lawsuit. Part of the scheduling conference was that both sides had to discuss alternative resolutions to the lawsuit. They may not be called settlement talks, but they are effectively the same thing.
Also, Alec Peters and Co were demanding CBS provide fan film guidelines after JJ and Lin 'intervened' and before CBS announced any such guidelines were in the pipeline.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Yawn... I really don't understand why you are white knighting and defending the honor of this scammer. He deserves nothing but contempt, and you have been told that by several people, who have cited various reasons for just how and why Alec Peters is in the wrong. The only one who has lost the argument, is you, ergo it doesn't matter what I resort to. What truly is the last resort of a lost argument, is criticising the comment another person makes, and the way they make it, rather than addressing the content of said comment...
He absolutely is a complete jerk, and if the evidence is anything to go by, he was never going to make a movie anyway, just scam people for money so he could revive his flagging prop-selling business, and build a studio so he could play movie producer. When someone asks money for X, then uses it for Y, they open themselves to critique, ridicule and scorn...
Personality has nothing to do with competence. You have offered no evidence that he was never going to make the movie, yet all of your accusations are based on that. So far, aside from repeating outright, and easily disproven lies generated by Axanar/Peters haters and personal attacks based on third party reports you have presented no evidence whatsoever to support your opinion. You have simply jumped on the hater bandwagon and are now using character assassination to discredit the man.
It is very easy to go on the internet and bad mouth someone. It has even become acceptable. When I was growing up you risked a fist in the mouth for doing so, but now the internet allows complete cads the opportunity to say anything without rear of reprisal.
But you have not proven any of the points you tried to make. Not a single one. When a point is refuted, you dismiss the refutation by calling me stupid. But I support my arguments, and I don't resort to name-calling.
The truth is, I don't see any evidence that Mr. Peters intended to scam anyone. What I see is people using hindsight and negative spin to rewrite the story so that there is a villain in it. (The other side is doing the same by denigrating CBS, by the way.) There may well be a villain in this tale, but it is neither CBS nor Mr.Peters, who were each looking after their own interests. The true villain is that segment of the fan base who rushed to judgement and condemned a man, not for what he did, but for what they imagined he did.
Accusations are easy to make, and having been made, difficult to live down. It really doesn't matter if they are true or not. Once made, they never go away, and cast their shadow on a person long afterward. One should be careful about spreading accusations around. There is a court that will rule on the issue if the two parties can't settle. Let that court do its thing.
And pray to whatever gods you hold dear that you never find yourself the subject of such a campaign of speculation, innuendo, and lies.
What you've said, or at least the moral principle of what you're saying, is true (although I haven't called you stupid: I simply don't get why you are white-knighting Alec Peters...) Now, with regards Alec Peters, have a read of this, and see if you still think that everyone who has something bad to say about him is just making it up...
But if the issue is that Mr. Peters deserves what happened because he is a jerk, then most of Hollywood should be burned to the ground. The personality of the artist, producer, or cameraman is irrelevant.
Claims of criminal behavior and intent in this matter are at best speculative. The suit never made a claim of criminal acts or intents, and all such claims come from the speculations of a group that has defined Mr. Peters so with no proof, or even evidence, that there is any merit to theri claims.
As for White Knighting, I admit to that, but not on the behalf of Mr. Peters, whom I have never met in any capacity. I am advocating against character assassination. You see, I have been the victim of such a campaign, the result of which was the loss of a very good job. There were people who knew the truth and, for fear of their own jobs, kept silent. I will never sit back and watch it happen to someone else. It is not only the openly spoken lies of those of ill intent, but the silence of those who know better that allows evil to prosper.
Alec Peters has benefited financially - or do you think the warehouse studio he's renovated using donor funds and uses as storage space for his Propworx auction business was just donated by it's landlord? And since Alec peters paid himself (and his girlfriend at the time a salary; used donor funds to pay his personal SAG union dues, and also used those same funds to travel to, pay entry fees to and for all the various Conventions where he exhibited Prelude publicly - all claiming it was to promote for more donations...) -- In other words evidence abounds that Alec Peters used the Star Trek IP illegally and saw personal financial gain as a result -- and that aspect was ALSO present in CBS/Paramount's lawsuit filing. If you bother to read it, 'profit' isn't mentioned anywhere; but 'direct financial gain' is - and it's what Alec Peters has experienced by making illegal use of the Star Trek IP.
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Asking for money to do X, and doing Y, is called 'obtaining funds by deception: A criminal act. Pointing it out, is not a character assassination. It seems, that that is something which Alec Peters specializes in, according to that link I posted for you to read... Comments which are true, are not libelous or slanderous...
Believing that there was never a plan to actually make Axanar is indeed supposition, but given that there is allegedly still no finalised script, it is beyond idle speculation, and into the realm of an educated guess...
When someone behaves in a dishonest manner by, oh, I don't know, manipulating a fandom's good will to obtain money by deception (ie asking for money to make a specific film, and then using that money to build a studio which will make countless other for profit films) and insults, ridicules and criticizes the people who actually do the work one is claiming credit for, then that is not character assassination: As Worf so aptly once put it, you cannot tarnish a rusty blade...
Don't allow your own experiences to cloud your judgement. Unless you somehow brought those circumstwnces upon yourself and axtually deserved to lose your job and deserved to have no one stand up for you, your situation is likely nothing like Alec Peters', so you shouldn't compare yourself in such a way, or allow it to make you defend him. He
Does
Not
Deserve
Support...