cbs and paramount demanding fan films of star strek what a joke!!!!!!

xayss

i was looking for fan films of star trek then i cross a video of prelude of axanar where the producers talking about cbs demanding fro be succefull and ppl love his fan film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxOkhC8-u3s the link about the producerrs talking about that


also i found a nice fan film using jj universe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuXt2AAn1Kw

artan42

People might like his fan film. What they don't like is his IP theft and his use of the Star Trek brand to make money for himself. Peters forced CBS and PAramount into taking those steps by refusing to back down in court after his attempt to get rich off of the back of other people's property failed.

So now Renegades, Horizon, Phase Two, and Continues are screwed thanks to his greed.​​

peterconnorfirst

No wonder CBS went into paranoid mode over Axanar. Prelude was awesome and well done. The new series launching in Jan has some pretty big shoes to fill already and picked an unimaginative similar setting as a start. If fans can make better shows than pros can, nobody needs pros anymore.

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wideningxgyre

I liked Axanar and would have enjoyed seeing the whole movie.

There are two separate issues which seem to come into play: 1) profiting from appropriated copyrights; and 2) creative infringement, i.e., what others here have noted with regard to stories which overlap with planned "sanctioned" projects.

For the most part, Paramount usually left fan films alone. However, there is a line which I think has to be drawn when other people actually try to make money from copyrighted material. If the Axanar folks had merely used funds for production costs, rather than paying people to participate, that would have been a different situation.

Now, CBS (the rights were split) has issued somewhat draconian "guidelines" about fan films which essentially makes it impossible to make them without actually coming out and saying it.

As for the second issue of creative infringement - personally, I think it points to a broader problem if fans can come up with better stories and ideas than the studios. If the studios are so concerned that fans' creativity is outpacing them, perhaps they ought to hire fans, rather than the hacks they've paid.

snoggymack22

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

If fans can make better shows than pros can, nobody needs pros anymore.

But that's not what was happening. The "fans" were on their way to becoming pros, with the cash being poured into the project. And at that point, the issue of IP rights does become a massive obstacle.

You can't take amateur artists and writers, who are very good, and let them take a Spider-Man comic they were working on as a free, passion project, and then turn it into a professional for sale project.

You could try. But see what Disney does about that.

Same thing here. When it started to become a professional project, the professional people who had the rights to make professional star trek content, needed to step in.

It stopped being a fan project.

nikephorus

CBS and Paramount didn't give two craps about fan films for a long time because the production values were so low, but now fan productions like Star Trek Continues and Axanar look like something you could see on television CBS/Paramount feel threatened by them.

daveyny

Some folks are forgetting that Star Trek was never actually an open source IP for use by just anybody who wanted.

CBS and Paramount were just nice enough to turn a blind eye toward the fan's creations for many years, because they were being made for the 'Love of Trek', NOT to Make a Profit.

Then this Peter's guy came along and decided he was going to use it TOO MAKE PROFIT, and try and hide that under the guise of it being a fan production.

He crossed the line, it doesn't matter how good the result is, it ceased to be a "Fan Creation" and it became a Professional Production the moment he decided he was going to make money from it for his own betterment.

CBS & Paramount had no choice, they had to step in or else possibly lose their exclusive rights to earning revenue from the IP.

I'll reiterate the main point here...
It doesn't matter how good Axanar is.
Even if it were horribly bad, the moment Peters took money for his own personal gain, it became a problem for CBS & Paramount.
<shrug>

questerius

This is in my opinion better suited for the litter box known as Ten Forward since it is not directly related to Star Trek Online.
@jodarkrider
@pwlaughingtrendy

imperatorpaveli

Plus I doubt this thread will end well anyway.

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artan42

nikephorus wrote: »

CBS and Paramount didn't give two craps about fan films for a long time because the production values were so low, but now fan productions like Star Trek Continues and Axanar look like something you could see on television CBS/Paramount feel threatened by them.

Laughable. They feel that a bloke freeloading from their IP is threatening. They don't give two tosses about the quality of the production as long as it didn't generate revenue from their product.​​

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iconians

Remember all those other franchises that gave up control to the fans so they could make their own money off of the intellectual properties owned by others?

No, I don't either.

If I wanted to be a comic book writer and got denied by Marvel to write an X-Men comic, I probably wouldn't ask for a bunch of money and crowdfund my own X-Men comic book. I'd probably just focus my creative efforts elsewhere, and I'd probably thank Marvel for at least considering my idea.

But then again, I'm a grown adult who understands intellectual property that isn't in the public domain isn't mine to play with, no matter how much I really, really like it.​​

sheldonlcooper

I may have an opinion on this subject!

alexhurlbut

Turtledove wrote a story about a Roman Legion in the Middle Earth (Fan Fiction!). When he dust it off for publishing, he changed the setting to his own and you have The Videssos Cycle.
Then you have the 40 Shades of Gray which I heard was originally a Twilight Fan Fiction.

If you got a great story you want to tell and it does not need a specific IP to use as its setting, go with your own IP and publish or film it.

commanderkassy

So what happened? I heard back in June that CBS/Paramount was backing off.. then they released those new rules... but it sounds like something got uncovered at Axanar that was pretty dirty. What happened? Is Axanar officially gone now? That would suck, I wanted to see it.

markhawkman

They were willing to back off, but Peters demanded that they crucify him then boil him in oil instead.

sheldonlcooper

It's in direct competition with the new series so they decided they had to kill it. it's sad but understandable.

artan42

sheldonlcooper wrote: »

It's in direct competition with the new series so they decided they had to kill it. it's sad but understandable.

It really, really wasn't. Really. It wasn't in competition with other fanworks never mind a fully funded and advertised full scale production. It was killed because it was theft, nothing more, nothing less.​​

commanderkassy

So can someone elaborate?

alexhurlbut

artan42 wrote: »

sheldonlcooper wrote: »

It's in direct competition with the new series so they decided they had to kill it. it's sad but understandable.

It really, really wasn't. Really. It wasn't in competition with other fanworks never mind a fully funded and advertised full scale production. It was killed because it was theft, nothing more, nothing less.​​

You can't deny though that both take places between Enterprise and TOS. One by 10 years before TOS, the other 20 years before TOS.

artan42

alexhurlbut wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

sheldonlcooper wrote: »

It's in direct competition with the new series so they decided they had to kill it. it's sad but understandable.

It really, really wasn't. Really. It wasn't in competition with other fanworks never mind a fully funded and advertised full scale production. It was killed because it was theft, nothing more, nothing less.

You can't deny though that both take places between Enterprise and TOS. One by 10 years before TOS, the other 20 years before TOS.

I wasn't. They also asked Renegades to shut down and that was set post-VOY.​​

snoggymack22

commanderkassy wrote: »

So can someone elaborate?

I believe the Washington Post sums the core of the issue up the best when it wrote:

copyrights can sometimes prevent well-meaning fans from showing the depth of their appreciation for a work by becoming creators themselves.

How is this even a discussion?

Many of you on here do creative things yourselves. You sketch, write, design. You've made foundry missions. You've written your own fan fic. Designed your own starships. Written your own backstories for your own characters.

How would you feel if JJ Abrams just surfed through the portal and ten forward and dug up all of your own creative work and just plopped that into the fourth Star Trek film? And then you saw the movie made millions of dollars at the box office. And your ideas got you ZERO in return?

JJ's still a FAN of your work. He did it out of love! He was just showing appreciation! That's cool with you right?

No? It's not? Then seriously let this Axanar thing go. It crossed the line. It's theft. It's pure theft. No matter what you think of Discovery or Beyond versus what you thought of Axanar ... Axanar was a violation.

daveyny

commanderkassy wrote: »

So can someone elaborate?

Apparently CBS/Paramount were willing to forgo the legalese stuff if Peter's would agree to an off-the-books settlement.

But then Mr. Peters had his lawyers file a Counter-suit toward CBS/Paramount and that pretty much meant things have to be settled in court now.

Can you say, I D I O T ??

smh

greyhame3

Basically they need to do this to protect their IP. The guidelines came out specifically because someone was threatening their IP. If it was anything but an existing IP, this wouldn't be a problem at all. It probably also would not have made as much money either.

highlord83

snoggymack22 wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

If fans can make better shows than pros can, nobody needs pros anymore.

But that's not what was happening. The "fans" were on their way to becoming pros, with the cash being poured into the project. And at that point, the issue of IP rights does become a massive obstacle.

You can't take amateur artists and writers, who are very good, and let them take a Spider-Man comic they were working on as a free, passion project, and then turn it into a professional for sale project.

You could try. But see what Disney does about that.

Same thing here. When it started to become a professional project, the professional people who had the rights to make professional star trek content, needed to step in.

It stopped being a fan project.

To an extent is is whats happening. Fan films, made with modern software by skilled users, are in many cases outpacing old development houses like Paramount with better stories and better writing, with near-equal or equal effects, and in many cases, better acting. And doing it cheaper.

Part of it is that fans tend to know better what other fans actually want, instead of some idiot in an office, worshiping the focus groups and holy spreadsheets made up by marketeers at the behest of the old, stupid and genre-blind executive throwback-to-the-60's shareholders.

Much like how large publishing houses and newspapers are taking a beating from advancing technology and data-sharing capability, the old and entrenched music industry getting hammered by the same, and even established game producers taking hits, the older and even more entrenched film producers are seeing the trends and panicking. Hand in hand with that is their near total refusal to change with the times, instead insisting on insane "AAA" production values, only to get the same response the gaming industry is receiving from years of the same, remade and overdone gray slop they crank out every year.

Axanar crossed a line, yes. But the more important point is that so many are behind it anyway, despite it breaking (old, draconic, stupidly written and even more stupidly enforced) copyright laws. Paramount/CBS were in the legal right, but don't think for a second that wanting to make an example of someone outdoing them using a fraction of their budget and not pandering to the guilds and executive bank accounts didn't play a part.

This was in no means just "protecting their IP" (which is funny, since the only person who should have had any right to Star Trek is dead.) It had far more to do with suits who couldn't find their asses with both hands if their lives depended on it using their clout to slap down a competitor that was already proving better than them at their own game.

snoggymack22

highlord83 wrote: »

but don't think for a second that wanting to make an example of someone outdoing them using a fraction of their budget and not pandering to the guilds and executive bank accounts didn't play a part.

It didn't. This was a clear violation. And Paramount just did the same thing Disney always does. They reacted. With the force of law.

So let's put this to a test shall we?

Give us some of your most creative ideas. Post them right here. In this thread. I'll go take those ideas and do my own creative thing with it. Maybe some others up in here will. We have the technology. We can crowd source this.

And if any of it is awesome and successful, we'll move on. Without you. Because we're fans!

Then we'll see how draconian and outdated copyright laws feel to you.

Let's put your love of fandom and the communal spirit of creativity and the bold new world that easy access to quality production software to a real test! Give us your ideas!

daveyny

highlord83 wrote: »

snoggymack22 wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

If fans can make better shows than pros can, nobody needs pros anymore.

But that's not what was happening. The "fans" were on their way to becoming pros, with the cash being poured into the project. And at that point, the issue of IP rights does become a massive obstacle.

You can't take amateur artists and writers, who are very good, and let them take a Spider-Man comic they were working on as a free, passion project, and then turn it into a professional for sale project.

You could try. But see what Disney does about that.

Same thing here. When it started to become a professional project, the professional people who had the rights to make professional star trek content, needed to step in.

It stopped being a fan project.

To an extent is is whats happening. Fan films, made with modern software by skilled users, are in many cases outpacing old development houses like Paramount with better stories and better writing, with near-equal or equal effects, and in many cases, better acting. And doing it cheaper.

Part of it is that fans tend to know better what other fans actually want, instead of some idiot in an office, worshiping the focus groups and holy spreadsheets made up by marketeers at the behest of the old, stupid and genre-blind executive throwback-to-the-60's shareholders.

Much like how large publishing houses and newspapers are taking a beating from advancing technology and data-sharing capability, the old and entrenched music industry getting hammered by the same, and even established game producers taking hits, the older and even more entrenched film producers are seeing the trends and panicking. Hand in hand with that is their near total refusal to change with the times, instead insisting on insane "AAA" production values, only to get the same response the gaming industry is receiving from years of the same, remade and overdone gray slop they crank out every year.

Axanar crossed a line, yes. But the more important point is that so many are behind it anyway, despite it breaking (old, draconic, stupidly written and even more stupidly enforced) copyright laws. Paramount/CBS were in the legal right, but don't think for a second that wanting to make an example of someone outdoing them using a fraction of their budget and not pandering to the guilds and executive bank accounts didn't play a part.

This was in no means just "protecting their IP" (which is funny, since the only person who should have had any right to Star Trek is dead.) It had far more to do with suits who couldn't find their asses with both hands if their lives depended on it using their clout to slap down a competitor that was already proving better than them at their own game.

There is need for a caveat or two here...

The Axanar Production was using PROFESSIONAL Actors and SPFx Guys and PAYING some of them.

&

Mr. Roddenberry sold his 'Exclusive Claim' on Star Trek to NBC back in the early 70's.

So let's not make this discussion into a "Little Guy Vs Big Corporations" lament.

While it may appear to be that, in fact it's actually a question of defending ones IP against theft.
<shrug>

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vegeta50024

markhawkman wrote: »

They were willing to back off, but Peters demanded that they crucify him then boil him in oil instead.

What if this whole fan film controversy was because CBS saw a similar fan film idea to the official star trek series they were planning on releasing in January? Think about it:

• A lot of fan films have used the Star Trek IP and things with in it in the past, Renegades included before they changed the name. CBS didn't go after them especially after Renegades attempted to promote the idea of their Star Trek series to CBS.
• Axanar comes around and all of a sudden, CBS is going after them because of the fan films setting, mid 23rd century? Note that this also uses trek actors.
• Just recently, it was announced that Star Trek: Discovery would be set in the 23rd century. When exactly? 2355, five years down the road from mid 23rd century but still close enough to the point Axanar would still be a fresh memory for the people of that time.

This is just a theory I came up with, but it does have to make sense with everything revealed.