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Whenever you use a transporter you die and get cloned.
oliviaclaire
Member Posts: 158 Arc User
And STO doesn't give you a choice to use other means for transport unless it's scripted as part of a mission.
TNG: "Second Chances"
The Horrifying Truth About Star Trek Transporters
TNG: "Second Chances"
LAFORGE: Apparently there was a massive energy surge in the distortion field around the planet just at the moment you tried to beam out. The Transporter Chief tried to compensate by initiating a second containment beam.
DATA: An interesting approach. He must have been planning to reintegrate the two patterns in the transport buffer.
LAFORGE: Actually, it wasn't really necessary. Commander Riker's pattern maintained its integrity with just the one containment beam. He made it back to the ship just fine.
CRUSHER: What happened to the second beam?
LAFORGE: The Transporter Chief shut it down, but somehow it was reflected back to the surface.
PICARD: And another William Riker materialised there.
RIKER: How was the second pattern able to maintained its integrity?
LAFORGE: The containment beam must have had the exact same phase differential as the distortion field.
RIKER: Which one of them is real?
LAFORGE: That's the thing. Both. You were both materialised from a complete pattern.
CRUSHER: Up until that moment, you were the same person.
DATA: An interesting approach. He must have been planning to reintegrate the two patterns in the transport buffer.
LAFORGE: Actually, it wasn't really necessary. Commander Riker's pattern maintained its integrity with just the one containment beam. He made it back to the ship just fine.
CRUSHER: What happened to the second beam?
LAFORGE: The Transporter Chief shut it down, but somehow it was reflected back to the surface.
PICARD: And another William Riker materialised there.
RIKER: How was the second pattern able to maintained its integrity?
LAFORGE: The containment beam must have had the exact same phase differential as the distortion field.
RIKER: Which one of them is real?
LAFORGE: That's the thing. Both. You were both materialised from a complete pattern.
CRUSHER: Up until that moment, you were the same person.
The Horrifying Truth About Star Trek Transporters
If it does just copy you, then the transporter is pretty much a fancy suicide booth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI
MinutePhysics [. . .] explain that scientists began looking at a thing called quantum teleportation in the nineties. This is the process whereby quantum information – such as the state of an atom–- could be transmitted. However, a major clause in this theory is the “no cloning theorem.” Essentially, to create a replica of a quantum state, the original must be destroyed in order to obtain all the information.
Science is still pretty shady on what exactly constitutes consciousness and what makes you “you,” so it's still hard to say. However, if it was something to do with the quantum state of certain electrons and atoms in our brain, then it doesn’t look too hopeful that “you” would survive the journey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAaHHGHuy1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYIMinutePhysics [. . .] explain that scientists began looking at a thing called quantum teleportation in the nineties. This is the process whereby quantum information – such as the state of an atom–- could be transmitted. However, a major clause in this theory is the “no cloning theorem.” Essentially, to create a replica of a quantum state, the original must be destroyed in order to obtain all the information.
Science is still pretty shady on what exactly constitutes consciousness and what makes you “you,” so it's still hard to say. However, if it was something to do with the quantum state of certain electrons and atoms in our brain, then it doesn’t look too hopeful that “you” would survive the journey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAaHHGHuy1c
Post edited by oliviaclaire on
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Basic fact is with Star Trek transporters, NOT replicators which use similar theory and technology, they convert matter into energy and transmit it to it's destination and reconvert it back to it's matter form ie just like a jigsaw, it takes it apart and reassembles it, if a piece is missing then the 'pattern' can't be completed. It does not copy anything, that's what replicators do, unless it is instructed to use a previous pattern that's stored so as the computer has a 'blueprint' to where things should be when there is need to correct an error. Bear in mind, we also have to assume that a transporter has more computing power than is available on this world at this time. The reason is that it would require extremely fast processing of the pure size of the 'transfer' on top of any error correction etc.
No, it doesn't make sense with real-world science; it's part of the 'fiction' in 'science fiction.'
If I spontaneously turned into a cloud of energy (yes, yes, I know it's not technically a cloud we're talking about...), I'd stop being myself. If that cloud of energy was then reconstituted back into its original form, how do we know there was nothing lost?
The saddest part is, even if it were 'consciousness-safe', I would be no more willing to do it than the folks in the early ENT episodes, because even the resulting duplicate of me wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The only one who would be able to tell the difference would be too dead to care or talk about it - incidentally, that's also the only one who cares about the difference in the first place. Tricky stuff.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
If pressed to guess I would say that a transporter would indeed make a copy and delete the original.
How do they do it on the show? (excepts from the Star Trek: The Next Generation Writers' Technical Manual, Fourth Season Edition.)
. The stream of molecules read by the pads is sent to the Pattern Buffer, a large cylindrical tank surrounded by superconducting electromagnetic coils. It is here that the object to be transported is stored momentarily before actual beaming away from the ship (or even within the ship). It is the Pattern Buffer and its associated subsystems that have been improved the most in the last half-century. While the actual molecules of an object are held in a spinning magnetic suspension (eight minutes before degradation), the construction sequence of the object can be read, recorded in computer memory (in some cases), and reproduced. There are limits to the complexity of the object, however, and this is where the potential "miracle" machine still eludes.
The Transporter cannot produce working duplicate copies of living tissue or organ systems.
The reason for this is that routine transport involves handling the incredibly vast amount of information required to "disassemble" and "reassemble" a human being or other life form. To transport something, the system must scan, process, and transmit this pattern information. This is analogous to a television, which serves as a conduit to the vast amount of visual information in a normal television transmission.
And then, from the same section, on page 29:
From the Pattern Buffer, the molecular stream and the coded instructions pass through a number of subsystems before reaching the emitter. These include the Subspace, Doppler, and Heisenberg Compensators. Each works to insure that the matter stream is being transmitted or received is in the correct phase, frequency, and so on. (sic)
So the object or living being is disassembled, molecule by molecule, converted to a stream that is temporarily stored in the pattern buffer, then reassembled at the destination. The stream contains both matter and data used for reassembly.
The body is not destroyed and a new one is not built. In spite of all the talk about the transporter being a matter/energy scrambler, it is not. The pattern buffer stores not only information, but every molecule of a person's body, as well as their clothing and whatever they are carrying.
However, there are a number of episodes that seem to contradict this and thus we have a prime nerd discussion point. The fact that they are so cavalier about using the transporter suggests to me that they are following the tech manual.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Then I remember it isn't real. It is fiction, and it can be whatever the authors want it to be. They obviously don't want it to be anything but a way to go from one place to another*.
*Actually, it was a way for the writers to get the crew somewhere without needing time consuming shuttle rides (remember, this was TV, every minute spent on the minutia was time not spent on story) and expensive sets for said shuttles. The minutia is probably also why we saw very few toilets in Star Trek, the Later Series. (The TOS is pre-Archie Bunker, where toilets were ground breaking television, so not seeing them makes sense...)
Yes, I just compared transporters to toilets.
honestly tell me that if they invented a real transporter that could take you anywhere in the world in the blink of an eye you would not be prepared to use it to avoid all of the pitfalls of road, air, train and sea travel.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
They have absolutely nothing to do with the game.
They belong in TEN FORWARD (barely) and the number of them could be considered Spamming.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
How transporters work in Trek is one of those things we are supposed to simply accept and not question too deeply... and we probably wouldn't if they always worked the way they're supposed to work and we didn't have the extreme examples of 'Divided Kirk', 'Duplicated Riker', and 'Tuvix' to deal with. Those works of fiction break the normally consistent fictional rules that transporters operate by.
And frankly, the pseudo-science involved pretty much assumes there's no such thing as a soul and that a mind is simply a function of brain activity. But it's fiction, so who cares?
2: Who cares... if nothing of the other remains, then who cares if it's a copy or not... after all... pretty much all money in the world are basically copies, and people like them all just as much.
Make it so, number one!
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
The transporter is effectively a cloning machine provided there is enough energy and raw materials. The original Will Riker is killed and has his pattern stored in the computer. The computer keeps on creating copies of Will Riker based on that pattern. So there is not William Riker and Thomas Riker, but dead original William Riker, living cloned William Riker, and another living cloned William Riker that is now named Thomas Riker.