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What will it take to get YOU to play KDF?

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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    Easy: Stop making them thugs (storywise) and introduce a more eye freindly UI.

    And players dropping their entitlement issues would also help.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Or the design aesthetics, or the Admiralty cards, or for role-playing, or just to collect different ships.

    Or, for asterisk's sake, even just to watch the KDF purists' temper tantrums at the sight of "the Feds" flying their precious ships. :D
    "KDF Purists?" Can you define what the KDF is in STO? I sure as hell can't.

    Cryptic decided to make the KDF something completely different than what was presented on-screen. It's an amalgamation of several races (including minor aliens) that are all treated equally within the Navy, yet do not receive equal representation on the High Council. It is Cryptic's own unique creation, and they have done an incredibly poor job of defining it. Why does it work the way it does?

    Cryptic could have done more than write up a few entries for the Klingon Academy "Path to 2409", but they didn't. They could have done quite a few things with their own unique entry in the Star Trek universe. Why didn't they?

    So, when you get all snarky with the "KDF purists" because the only thing that defines them or makes them unique is thier art style, including the damn ships perhaps, just perhaps, you might want to tone it down before you point and laugh.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Players can want to fly a Klingon ship without playing a Klingon character. Which they can't do. Yet.
    Why would a member of Starfleet want to fly a Vor'cha? or a Vo'quv? or a B'rel?

    Why would a member of the Republic Navy want to fly a Bortas'qu? Or a Varanus? Or a Dacoit?

    Because the player of that character likes the design of the ship, or the stats, or a combination of both. Maybe he has a clever backstory on how he got the ship from a special raid or due to a unique agreement.

    His point was that the Feds get alot more ships to chose from and most of them are over-powered compared to their 'equivalent' KDF version.

    Take the Varanus for one, copy-pasted reskin of a crappy level 40 ship that the KDF has to pay for and be level 50 to use.
    Meanwhile the Feds get to use the Vesta line from the C-store at level 50, see the difference?

    The only reason any Fed or Fed-aligned Romulan / Reman would want a KDF ship is for the console, Oh wait no they don't even need to buy a KDF ship as most of the consoles off them ended up in a Lockbox!
    Varanus is one of the oldest ships in the game. A more fair comparison is to the Nebula rather than the Vesta. Vesta was DESIGNED to make all of the other Fed science ship look like junk. Comparing to Nebula the only thing that sticks out is the 1.2 shield mod.... it's the only sci ship like that and doesn't get anything to make up for it.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    If I started playing my Klink more, would Cryptic start to consider the support I've shown them to be "unwavering"?

    I might play it if that's the case ...
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    I have to admit....there is a massive time commitment and/or money investment in "gearing up", these days.

    With the leveling to 60, 9(?) Reps, Specialization points and gearing otherwise...it makes it hard to have Alternate Characters in all three Factions. And I see it as forced drudgery on players who want to try it.

    BUT I don't think the answer is: Let any player buy any ship from any faction.

    That would be similar to me saying, "I am sorry, Cryptic, but because I barely have time or inclination to do the minimum on the Temporal Recruit (or other Fed content)...I should just have access to the fracking prizes for stuff I completed on my KDF characters."

    +++++++++++++

    I do not see how Cryptic can "fix" that drudgery part. Or if they even want to...
    There is obviously money in making alts/recruits.

    (Even now, I am thinking, "Gosh it would be easier, if I bought the Recruit some inventory and DOFF slots". And NO I do not think I will finish the Fed Temporal Recruit, as I just want to unlock the Epic DOFF.)
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Or the design aesthetics, or the Admiralty cards, or for role-playing, or just to collect different ships.

    Or, for asterisk's sake, even just to watch the KDF purists' temper tantrums at the sight of "the Feds" flying their precious ships. :D
    "KDF Purists?" Can you define what the KDF is in STO? I sure as hell can't.

    Cryptic decided to make the KDF something completely different than what was presented on-screen. It's an amalgamation of several races (including minor aliens) that are all treated equally within the Navy, yet do not receive equal representation on the High Council. It is Cryptic's own unique creation, and they have done an incredibly poor job of defining it. Why does it work the way it does?

    Cryptic could have done more than write up a few entries for the Klingon Academy "Path to 2409", but they didn't. They could have done quite a few things with their own unique entry in the Star Trek universe. Why didn't they?

    So, when you get all snarky with the "KDF purists" because the only thing that defines them or makes them unique is thier art style, including the damn ships perhaps, just perhaps, you might want to tone it down before you point and laugh.
    I simply can't respect people who think it's taking something away from them if the neighbor's kids get the same toys. This isn't a game for 5 year olds.

    And I might feel sorry for their inability to define themselves without Cryptic holding their hands...if their demands for Cryptic hand-holding didn't directly contradict what I believe are the best interests of this game.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    "KDF Purists?" Can you define what the KDF is in STO?

    I'm not sure exactly, but I heard often that they were players who only had KDF characters, that they don't have any Starfleet characters.
    That seems fairly extreme to me, why would you only want to experience 1 3rd of what the game has to offer in terms of factions?
    At least you should try it once and then make an informed decision as to if you wish to keep playing the Faction.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    redvenge wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Players can want to fly a Klingon ship without playing a Klingon character. Which they can't do. Yet.
    Why would a member of Starfleet want to fly a Vor'cha? or a Vo'quv? or a B'rel?

    Why would a member of the Republic Navy want to fly a Bortas'qu? Or a Varanus? Or a Dacoit?

    Because the player of that character likes the design of the ship, or the stats, or a combination of both. Maybe he has a clever backstory on how he got the ship from a special raid or due to a unique agreement.

    Everybody has their own flavor of Star Trek.

    Some people LOVE The Original Series. Others, not so much.

    Some people LOVE that Kelvin Timeline got added to the game.
    Other people hate it with a passion that has spilled over to the Fourms.

    Just as some people prefer playing Starfleet....
    Others prefer playing Klingon side, Romulans side, (Cardassian side?).
    Some people want to mix it up.

    It is all about your PASSION.
    It is, also, about CURIOSITY.
    I think Cryptic knows this.

    That is why the current "Faction Agnostic" ships are built the way they are.
    Yes, they are fashioned after Starfleet, THIS TIME. But you want to try your hand at a Sci ship or BoP....there they are.

    But what's to say the next set of "Faction Agnostic" ships end up the same???

    What if they have the aesthetics of the Klingon Defense Force, instead? Or a different set of ships won't incorporate the sleek style of Romulan Navy?

    We will have access to what ever "look" we want that way.
    You just have to wait for it.

    Sorry, the term I should have used was "Faction Agnostic", not "Cross Faction".
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • cross821cross821 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    Well they got me to do it. Lots fo 23c outfits stuff a fleet D7 as well, now the only thing to make it perfect is a 23c klink bridge.
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    I would play my Klingon way more if the factions were more integrated. Let me team with my federation friends, let me visit their social zones.

    Until that wall of separation is dissolved, I'm just not tempted.
  • daviesdaviesdaviesdavies Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    Klingon has great melee % bonus, you can basicly cut your enemy in half with one strike.

    Also my kebab store is open for business

    your original klingon tribble kebab

    yum yum

    Mzd8i1c.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Everybody has their own flavor of Star Trek.

    Some people LOVE The Original Series. Others, not so much.

    Some people LOVE that Kelvin Timeline got added to the game.
    Other people hate it with a passion that has spilled over to the Fourms.

    Just as some people prefer playing Starfleet....
    Others prefer playing Klingon side, Romulans side, (Cardassian side?).
    Some people want to mix it up.
    I love Vortas!
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,694 Arc User
    T-6 Varanus Sci ship T6 K'Tinga Sci Ship T-6 Vo'Quv carrier and a DAMN K'VORT
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    Nothing. I enjoy my four KDF characters. I plan to make a fith.
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 6,015 Arc User
    Add more KDF focused episodes into the story, something that is focused on Klingon culture
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
      Add more KDF focused episodes into the story, something that is focused on Klingon culture
      Slight problem.... is this story to be expected to make sense from the perspective of an Orion player?
      -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      My character Tsin'xing
      Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
    • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 6,015 Arc User
      Add more KDF focused episodes into the story, something that is focused on Klingon culture
      Slight problem.... is this story to be expected to make sense from the perspective of an Orion player?

      Maybe a few episodes on rebuilding the damage done to the Klingon Empire after the Iconian War with equal representation from the member species within the empire
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
      • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,803 Arc User
        Best way for Cryptic to make me play my KDF toons more would be to make the ships I want. Namely a T6 Orion FDC and a T6 Gorn Science ship with a Lt Cmdr tac seat.
      • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 6,015 Arc User
        jexsamx wrote: »
        Best way for Cryptic to make me play my KDF toons more would be to make the ships I want. Namely a T6 Orion FDC and a T6 Gorn Science ship with a Lt Cmdr tac seat.

        I'm still waiting for a T6 Vor'cha
        NMXb2ph.png
          "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
          -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
        • This content has been removed.
        • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
          Played Starfleet when I first started, and to me, it just didn't feel right. The ships, the ship bridges, Tellarites, the feel of the Federation all ground against me the wrong way. Too clean and serene/peaceful. So I switched over to playing KDF/KDF-Rom. The only reason I have an AoY toon, is to unlock the extra mark packages. Once I get all those temporal unlocks, my AoY toon will be relegated to rust bucket status. Both of the larger factions are about conquest/assimilation/expansion, but how they go about it is different.

          Maybe to this "KDF Purist," I feel that the KDF atmosphere, artwork, doff mission feel, even the damn ships, are an extension of something inside me, that appeals to something inside my core. The violent, primal, aggressive nature of the faction.

          Am I fan of the Galactic Alliance, or how the KDF eventually get absorbed by the Federation? Nope. I despise the path that was chosen. If I was able to really impact the story, my character would abuse the TRIBBLE out of time travel, and do a hit and run party crash at the Galactic Union party in a big way. Did I think that the writing for missions such as Terminal Expanse was a giant's steaming load of...TRIBBLE? Definitely. Do I get sad that many of my friends that I recently made online, are ones I'm unable to group with when they're on their Fed characters? Nope. This group of friends respects my choice, and doesn't pressure me, as I don't pressure them at all.

          While I don't feel that the trade of nifty consoles between factions via gambleboxes(Bio-Neural Warhead, Plasmonic Leech, Subspace Jumper to Federation for example) was fair between the factions, all I can really hope for, is that they don't try and continue to railroad my characters' story paths towards Federation further(they're violent and brutal people(my characters), in the very least), or make my T6 Bortasqu' completely obsolete.

          Me, I'll continue to play KDF(ish) and Rom-KDF(ish). Until Cryptic bans me or deletes my characters, or shutters the game, I'll play KDF. Even if everyone else joins the Federation, I'll be that last outlaw. Go ahead and laugh, or sneer at my choice. But it is my choice.
        • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
          Add more KDF focused episodes into the story, something that is focused on Klingon culture
          Slight problem.... is this story to be expected to make sense from the perspective of an Orion player?

          Might I recommend the Honor of Ferasans, Honor of the Orions, Honor of the Empire foundry chain(all 3 listed missions, played in that order)? There are even dialogue choices that Orions, Aliens, Gorn, Klingons, Ferasans can choose in the 3rd chapter.
        • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
          edited July 2016
          patrickngo wrote: »
          [
          Take the Varanus for one, copy-pasted reskin of a crappy level 40 ship that the KDF has to pay for and be level 50 to use.
          Meanwhile the Feds get to use the Vesta line from the C-store at level 50, see the difference?
          The Varanus is still much older than the Vesta, there is nothing "meanwhile" about it. The Varanus comes from a time where I think Cryptic was a lot less clueless about how to build powercreep to sell their ships. It followed a simple principle back then -give those ships a special ability on a console item and an extra console slot, and you're done with your new Tier 5 C-Store ship. Only today they carefully optimize so you get the tactical slots people demand from a ship. Or realize that science vessels need a good turn rate (or be Dreadnaughts with extra weapon slots or pets or both).

          And STO gave the Feds melons like the Galaxy Retrofit. How many people complained that those ships stats were subpar and it needed more tactical slots? (Heck, how many people complained that the Sovereign was worse than the Excelsior?). But I can bet you that those ship sold probably more than one order of magnitude better than the Varanus.

          Don't overrate those game statistics. The Scimitar might have been the most overpowered ship in the game for years, but it didn't cause the Romulan player population to grow beyond the KDF or the Federation.

          You're overrating game statistics a bit.
          Especially when you come to Science Vessels. It took Cryptic years to make Science Vessels actually competitive with Cruisers, and Escorts for the DPS metagame. Heck, in the beginning Klingon Battlecruisers were superior to Fed Cruisers, because they had a better turn rate, a cloaking device, and the ability to use DHCs. It took many years until BFAW and energy management was buffed to the level that Beam Cruisers were deadly.
          Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
        • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
          warpangel wrote: »
          I simply can't respect people who think it's taking something away from them if the neighbor's kids get the same toys. This isn't a game for 5 year olds.

          And I might feel sorry for their inability to define themselves without Cryptic holding their hands...if their demands for Cryptic hand-holding didn't directly contradict what I believe are the best interests of this game.

          Cryptic hand-holding would be "I only want to play one character, but get access to all the stuff every other character gets."

          They've already acquiesced enough to the whining people who just want everything without putting the time in to getting it. Now, people are starting to just expect it.

          They should have just said
          "Play a Klingon/Romulan" when people complained they wanted cloaks.

          "Upgrade your gear or play on Normal" when people complained about how "hard" Advanced was.

          "You have 3 free character slots" when people complained that they can't get absolutely every reward from playing one character.

          Giving FEDs Klingon and Romulan ships just makes there be absolutely no reason whatsoever to play anything other than FED. They could get rid of the other storylines completely. And it doesn't really make sense, besides. But I really don't see CBS allowing it anyway, since they wouldn't allow the game to launch without a Klingon faction, so there's that.
        • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
          If I started playing my Klink more, would Cryptic start to consider the support I've shown them to be "unwavering"?

          I might play it if that's the case ...

          Thanks for the laugh! Much appreciated!

          A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
        • edited July 2016
          This content has been removed.
        • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
          bjornfried wrote: »
          fluffymoof wrote: »
          Let's face it--Klingons are a rare breed in STO anymore. We all know the story writing is little more than "UGH UGH, HIS/HER HONOR WAS BESMIRCHED!" We all know the core issue here which is a writing one.

          But what would it take to have you play a KDF character?


          Be reasonable and creative in responses to the question. For instance, you're not going to get a T6 with epic inventory for every slot of the ship. No way would they do this. However, I could see this:

          A really nice-looking cross-faction T5, so your main could use it also.
          Rewards similar to Delta Recruits or Temporal Agents
          One (and only one) epic item usable by all alts
          Additional character slots (i.e. one for hitting level 30 and one for level 60)

          What would it take to get you playing a Klingon?

          More quality story content, a TOS storyline or even a "Kelvin timeline" KDF toon storyline and TOS based ships with the apropiate interiours.

          Not even all that. Different stories. I've said it before, time and again PWE has missed the opportunity to split the story into 3 specific arcs that weave around the same main arc. Did it in the Delta arc, did it in the Iconian arc, hell even with the redone Cardassian arc could of redone it, but nope.

          Once past the initial arc, one story fits all.
          afMSv4g.jpg
          Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

          http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
        • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
          ichaerus1 wrote: »
          Me, I'll continue to play KDF(ish) and Rom-KDF(ish). Until Cryptic bans me or deletes my characters, or shutters the game, I'll play KDF. Even if everyone else joins the Federation, I'll be that last outlaw. Go ahead and laugh, or sneer at my choice. But it is my choice.

          I will be right there with you.

          "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

          “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
        • freightstopperfreightstopper Member Posts: 232 Arc User
          edited July 2016
          patrickngo wrote: »
          [
          Take the Varanus for one, copy-pasted reskin of a crappy level 40 ship that the KDF has to pay for and be level 50 to use.
          Meanwhile the Feds get to use the Vesta line from the C-store at level 50, see the difference?
          The Varanus is still much older than the Vesta, there is nothing "meanwhile" about it. The Varanus comes from a time where I think Cryptic was a lot less clueless about how to build powercreep to sell their ships. It followed a simple principle back then -give those ships a special ability on a console item and an extra console slot, and you're done with your new Tier 5 C-Store ship. Only today they carefully optimize so you get the tactical slots people demand from a ship. Or realize that science vessels need a good turn rate (or be Dreadnaughts with extra weapon slots or pets or both).

          And STO gave the Feds melons like the Galaxy Retrofit. How many people complained that those ships stats were subpar and it needed more tactical slots? (Heck, how many people complained that the Sovereign was worse than the Excelsior?). But I can bet you that those ship sold probably more than one order of magnitude better than the Varanus.

          Don't overrate those game statistics. The Scimitar might have been the most overpowered ship in the game for years, but it didn't cause the Romulan player population to grow beyond the KDF or the Federation.

          You're overrating game statistics a bit.
          Especially when you come to Science Vessels. It took Cryptic years to make Science Vessels actually competitive with Cruisers, and Escorts for the DPS metagame. Heck, in the beginning Klingon Battlecruisers were superior to Fed Cruisers, because they had a better turn rate, a cloaking device, and the ability to use DHCs. It took many years until BFAW and energy management was buffed to the level that Beam Cruisers were deadly.

          Science ships have always been able to kill things, but because they don't BfaW and survive all that aggro it generates the whiny Fed players bitched and moaned.

          No ship REQUIRES a Lt Cmdr tactical seat to be able to kill things, claiming they do just proves that you are very limited in your thinking and your choosing of the options available to you.

          As for the claim about beams being worse then cannons, what the hell game did you play because it wasn't this one.

          Dual and Dual heavy cannons were stuck, and still are in the case of Dual cannons, with 45 degree cones, single cannons with 180 degrees. All cannons still have to wait for the shots to hit, drain more power when firing other weapons and have smaller arcs then beams do, cannon tactics are still limited to keeping an enemy in the arcs of most of your weapons at all times.

          As for beams, since day one they have hit instantly, drained less power when firing other weapons, have larger arcs enabling the tactic of broadsiding, something you cannot do with cannons.

          Now thanks to the constant whining of Fed players the KDF have less T6 Battle-cruisers then the Feds do, no unique faction-specific consoles because they got stolen for Lockbox rewards nor do they have any faction-unique abilities any more, see the Battle-cloaking Raider lately?

          The Intel ships gave Feds THREE ships with a built-in cloak, the KDF and the Romulans got TWO intel ships out of that deal. Now that scrap-pile garbage Vengence ups it to FOUR ships with a cloaking device built-in rather then getting people to spend more by adding those ships to the list that can use the Cloaking Device console, though I don't see why they should cloak at all, also note that the Romulans got an Intel carrier out of that Kelvin TRIBBLE so they've now got THREE Intel ships in total.
          Meanwhile the KDF still has just TWO.

          The Delta Alliance is SUPPOSED to be a beneficial partnership, so why not farm out the stealthy intel gathering missions to the KDF and Romulans who have entire ship lines dedicated to cloaking, let the Feds be the big obvious muscle so while an enemy is focused on all those cruisers a wing of Warbirds or Birds-of-Prey can decloak and shoot them in the back?

          Answer, because then it wouldn't have been pandering to the bitching and whiny Feds.
          where2r1 wrote: »
          ichaerus1 wrote: »
          Me, I'll continue to play KDF(ish) and Rom-KDF(ish). Until Cryptic bans me or deletes my characters, or shutters the game, I'll play KDF. Even if everyone else joins the Federation, I'll be that last outlaw. Go ahead and laugh, or sneer at my choice. But it is my choice.

          I will be right there with you.

          As will I, TRIBBLE merging the factions, TRIBBLE any Galactic Alliance, I'd rather go pirate.
        • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
          Add more KDF focused episodes into the story, something that is focused on Klingon culture
          Slight problem.... is this story to be expected to make sense from the perspective of an Orion player?

          I actually think there is room to do stories on ALL the different races in Star Trek.....
          they can start with the ones that are playable.

          I certainly could use it....didn't watch many of the shows (too many of them, don't have time now), and definitely don't have it memorized. If it wasn't for playing this game, I wouldn't know most of the stuff about Star Trek that I have picked up. Just memories of watching TOS when I was younger, and the few movies.
          "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

          “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
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