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massive contraband nerf coming soon

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  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    dil/zen has already dropped to 398 and I saw last night @ 381 - even during dilithium bonus weekend
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    sqwished wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    [The upgrade system is all the dill sink the game needs.

    So what happens when you've upgraded everything?​​

    Upgrade stuff on your alts.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    gradii wrote: »
    sqwished wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    [The upgrade system is all the dill sink the game needs.

    So what happens when you've upgraded everything?

    Upgrade stuff on your alts.

    That's what I had in mind when I stated "Everything"​​
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    get more stuff to upgrade; they release new pieces every few weeks​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    sqwished wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    sqwished wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    [The upgrade system is all the dill sink the game needs.

    So what happens when you've upgraded everything?

    Upgrade stuff on your alts.

    That's what I had in mind when I stated "Everything"​​

    Upgrade the ground gear for your BOFFs.

    Then start upgrading all items for your other builds.

    Then do so for all your alts.

    This can keep expanding.

    Then, when it's ALL upgraded perfectly?

    Change to a different beam weapon preference.

    Then when you think you've upgraded just about every iteration you possibly could ...

    Delete the items and start all over.

    At some point Cryptic may alter the meta as well. With new sets, new mods, new interactions making Best in Class mods not as good and you'll need a new set of stuff. For you, your boffs, your alts, their boffs.

    This game, it's not over. And it won't be.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2016
    sqwished wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    sqwished wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    [The upgrade system is all the dill sink the game needs.

    So what happens when you've upgraded everything?

    Upgrade stuff on your alts.

    That's what I had in mind when I stated "Everything"

    Upgrade the ground gear for your BOFFs.

    Then start upgrading all items for your other builds.

    Then do so for all your alts.

    This can keep expanding.

    Then, when it's ALL upgraded perfectly?

    Change to a different beam weapon preference.

    Then when you think you've upgraded just about every iteration you possibly could ...

    Delete the items and start all over.

    At some point Cryptic may alter the meta as well. With new sets, new mods, new interactions making Best in Class mods not as good and you'll need a new set of stuff. For you, your boffs, your alts, their boffs.

    This game, it's not over. And it won't be.

    The point is if it ain't broken don't fix it! And what makes you think I haven't already upgraded my Alts?​​
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    sqwished wrote: »
    It's nice to know that Cryptic has it's priorities straight. So lets put this into prospective shall we.
    ​​
    I'm pretty sure that the zen to dilithium exchange (You know, the most important system in the game. The thing that keeps the game going and the F2P model stable) is a bigger priority than people's precious SRO's.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    An unfortunate change since it's how I got the majority of my dilithium. It was nice not having to worry about earning tons of dilithium for gear upgrades and what not and allowed me to play the game the way I wanted.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    I'm pretty sure that the zen to dilithium exchange (You know, the most important system in the game. The thing that keeps the game going and the F2P model stable) is a bigger priority than people's precious SRO's.

    Which uses refined Dilithium, The duty officer mission generates Unrefined Dilithium, so with the 9k hard cap per day per toon, still doesn't solve the issue does it?​​
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    apparently it does solve the problem, because the exchange is dropping like a neutronium fragment​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    refine
    sqwished wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that the zen to dilithium exchange (You know, the most important system in the game. The thing that keeps the game going and the F2P model stable) is a bigger priority than people's precious SRO's.

    Which uses refined Dilithium, The duty officer mission generates Unrefined Dilithium, so with the 9k hard cap per day per toon, still doesn't solve the issue does it?​​
    Both of us may be surprised to find out how many farmers roll 50 alts getting 400,000 unrefined (which by the way becomes refined) dilithium per day. Now it will just be 100,000 per day on these accounts.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    The hardcore farmers might just create many more accounts to compensate.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    well, considering you're only allowed TWO accounts for one single IP address, cryptic may need to step in there as well​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    Oh they definitely will but in the meantime, they will be gimped for sure.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    refine
    sqwished wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that the zen to dilithium exchange (You know, the most important system in the game. The thing that keeps the game going and the F2P model stable) is a bigger priority than people's precious SRO's.

    Which uses refined Dilithium, The duty officer mission generates Unrefined Dilithium, so with the 9k hard cap per day per toon, still doesn't solve the issue does it?​​
    Both of us may be surprised to find out how many farmers roll 50 alts getting 400,000 unrefined (which by the way becomes refined) dilithium per day. Now it will just be 100,000 per day on these accounts.

    In years gone past I used to do this. 50 alts x 4 per day x 2000 = 400,000 dilithium per day for my account. Of course back then it was only like 200 per c-point or 2000 zen/cpoints a day - bought a lot of c-store ships. Billions and billions of EC. Had many many KDF toons for farming. Now I work 2 jobs and a wife and kid - no time for that.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 903 Arc User
    well, considering you're only allowed TWO accounts for one single IP address, cryptic may need to step in there as well​​

    Where does it say that?
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    the EULA...supposedly​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    apparently it does solve the problem, because the exchange is dropping like a neutronium fragment​​

    It would be dropping anyway - AoY new characters are hitting 60 and so people want to Mk XIV them which functions to remove Dil from the system, Aoy is out which was causing a huge amount of pressure increasing the value of Zen relative to Dil by promise of new shinies for either Zen or lockbox/lobi.

    Appealing to an event which hasn't even happened yet to explain what is simple supply/demand and an elastic market returning to previous norms is a bit fallacious.

    Come next month when it's had time to hit and we are down to ~200:1 Dil/Zen then that might have been Contraband being nerfed, although quite frankly removing it entirely would not do that.
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    This really won't hurt the "hardcore farmers" as much as people think.

    It mostly removes (yet another) incentive to play KDF, which is what bothers me. So far, AOY has introduced a cross-faction BoP, locked out KDF/ROMs from participating in the expansion at all, put the only (1 each!) KDF/ROM ships behind a gamblebox wall, added a Fed only Lobi ship, and next is to remove the contraband incentive from the KDF.

    We get that you don't like people playing KDF, but jeez.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    sinn74 wrote: »
    This really won't hurt the "hardcore farmers" as much as people think.

    It mostly removes (yet another) incentive to play KDF, which is what bothers me. So far, AOY has introduced a cross-faction BoP, locked out KDF/ROMs from participating in the expansion at all, put the only (1 each!) KDF/ROM ships behind a gamblebox wall, added a Fed only Lobi ship, and next is to remove the contraband incentive from the KDF.

    We get that you don't like people playing KDF, but jeez.

    yep, though adding prisoners/colonist to contraband should allow someone to continue with no lost of dil. 2 rounds a day should be able to get you to max add in admiralty and this change was pointless from the start. oh and it's still best done on a kdf character. and with little time added to.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,663 Arc User
    nightken wrote: »
    sinn74 wrote: »
    This really won't hurt the "hardcore farmers" as much as people think.

    It mostly removes (yet another) incentive to play KDF, which is what bothers me. So far, AOY has introduced a cross-faction BoP, locked out KDF/ROMs from participating in the expansion at all, put the only (1 each!) KDF/ROM ships behind a gamblebox wall, added a Fed only Lobi ship, and next is to remove the contraband incentive from the KDF.

    We get that you don't like people playing KDF, but jeez.

    yep, though adding prisoners/colonist to contraband should allow someone to continue with no lost of dil. 2 rounds a day should be able to get you to max add in admiralty and this change was pointless from the start. oh and it's still best done on a kdf character. and with little time added to.

    Thanks for pointing that out, devs can nerf prisoners next :)

    This is another good casual-friendly action by Cryptic. Like most other loot changes in the last 1-2 years it shifts income from the farmers to the casuals, in this case by making the casuals' dil more valuable by lowering the farmers' production.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    nightken wrote: »
    sinn74 wrote: »
    This really won't hurt the "hardcore farmers" as much as people think.

    It mostly removes (yet another) incentive to play KDF, which is what bothers me. So far, AOY has introduced a cross-faction BoP, locked out KDF/ROMs from participating in the expansion at all, put the only (1 each!) KDF/ROM ships behind a gamblebox wall, added a Fed only Lobi ship, and next is to remove the contraband incentive from the KDF.

    We get that you don't like people playing KDF, but jeez.

    yep, though adding prisoners/colonist to contraband should allow someone to continue with no lost of dil. 2 rounds a day should be able to get you to max add in admiralty and this change was pointless from the start. oh and it's still best done on a kdf character. and with little time added to.

    Thanks for pointing that out, devs can nerf prisoners next :)

    This is another good casual-friendly action by Cryptic. Like most other loot changes in the last 1-2 years it shifts income from the farmers to the casuals, in this case by making the casuals' dil more valuable by lowering the farmers' production.

    I'm sure, it was already in their list like everything else useful for kdf players. :p


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    I have played mostly KDF since early in 2012. I prefer the Red Side. This is not the first time something such as this has happened. KDF players have grown accustomed to making bricks without straw while remaining effective. This change may not be pleasant but I am surprised it took Cryptic this long.

    Not really going to affect how I acquire Dilithium much. It may have an effect on the time I spend playing though. Won't be much point in DOffing for Contraband to turn in for dilithium or to sell on the Exchange any more. So, one more part of the game I no longer bother with. The less time I spend per login, the more likely it is I will not be purchasing anything with RL currency. The more time I remain logged out, the more likely it is I will remain so as the ROI on the time I spend playing STO gets less valuable. Change that, playing STO becomes less fun. Less fun means I play a lot less. I have other ways to get my Star Trek fix.

    I understand what Cryptic is trying to do here. I DO NOT approve of it. Nor do I support it. I see no need to spend weeks of free time just to get a ship I'd like to have. I see no need to roll up forty or so alts just to have access to the same levels of dilithium I have access to now. I see little sense in making such a change before the rollout to console based play. And if they think we're unhappy about such a change, they have badly underestimated the amount of BS a console player is willing to go through to acquire something. I suspect the console players will not come in here with torches and pitchforks, either. They'll just leave. And all the time and money Cryptic is spending to lure them in will be for naught once the word gets out about changes such as this.

    If Cryptic are serious about restricting Dilithium access further, and they apparently are, they should simply remove it from the game entirely.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    I have played mostly KDF since early in 2012. I prefer the Red Side. This is not the first time something such as this has happened. KDF players have grown accustomed to making bricks without straw while remaining effective. This change may not be pleasant but I am surprised it took Cryptic this long.

    Not really going to affect how I acquire Dilithium much. It may have an effect on the time I spend playing though. Won't be much point in DOffing for Contraband to turn in for dilithium or to sell on the Exchange any more. So, one more part of the game I no longer bother with. The less time I spend per login, the more likely it is I will not be purchasing anything with RL currency. The more time I remain logged out, the more likely it is I will remain so as the ROI on the time I spend playing STO gets less valuable. Change that, playing STO becomes less fun. Less fun means I play a lot less. I have other ways to get my Star Trek fix.

    I understand what Cryptic is trying to do here. I DO NOT approve of it Nor do I support it. If they are serious about restricting Dilithium access further, and they apparently are, then they should simply remove it from the game entirely.

    Remove what, Contraband or Dil?

    On a little aside, though, wouldn't you have "just as much" if not "more" fun playing those little-used KDF queues instead of just bouncing from sector corner to sector corner clicking on "get me moar contrabands"? Perchance this is Cryptic's goal - get KDF players out of the Contraband mines and into space...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • delerouxdeleroux Member Posts: 478 Arc User
    Contraband has already bottomed out in value as it is. This solves nothing. Stop being so flagrantly inept, Cryptic. It's pathetic.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Your erroneous assumptions about me are truly amazing. How does one survive IRL with such a poor situational awareness, anyway?

    I'm not one of the KDF players who spends all his time playing by swanning about just for Contraband. I'm one of those KDF players who actually plays the game for the enjoyment of it. Overall, I like this game. A lot. Met some fine people over the years. Done a lot of fun stuff with them too. I'm not a Federation player who has forty or so KDF alts purely for dilithium farming. I have watched Cryptic time and again nerf rewards or attempt to 'fix' something to slow the rate at which players acquire dilithium. To date, few of their 'corrections' have worked out well. I think this change, if it makes to Holodeck, will work no better than all the other attempts to slow the rate at which players acquire dilthium.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,663 Arc User
    Your erroneous assumptions about me are truly amazing. How does one survive IRL with such a poor situational awareness, anyway?

    I'm not one of the KDF players who spends all his time playing by swanning about just for Contraband. I'm one of those KDF players who actually plays the game for the enjoyment of it. Overall, I like this game. A lot. Met some fine people over the years. Done a lot of fun stuff with them too. I'm not a Federation player who has forty or so KDF alts purely for dilithium farming. I have watched Cryptic time and again nerf rewards or attempt to 'fix' something to slow the rate at which players acquire dilithium. To date, few of their 'corrections' have worked out well. I think this change, if it makes to Holodeck, will work no better than all the other attempts to slow the rate at which players acquire dilthium.

    It doesn't affect normal, non-farming KDF captains much or at all. They are busy fighting alongside Kahless or playing STFs not farming contraband.

    This does reduce the over-supply of dil by slowing down the farmers.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    Well, KDF characters will still have an edge for earning dilithium via their prisoner turnover missions. Granted these are rather more capped by the size of the Brig than contraband turnover, but it's still a factor, especially as Klingon admiralty can award plenty of boxed prisoners.

    OTOH, this will probably flush out which KDF characters are genuinely played and which were pure farming alts.


  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    staq16 wrote: »
    Well, KDF characters will still have an edge for earning dilithium via their prisoner turnover missions. Granted these are rather more capped by the size of the Brig than contraband turnover, but it's still a factor, especially as Klingon admiralty can award plenty of boxed prisoners.

    OTOH, this will probably flush out which KDF characters are genuinely played and which were pure farming alts.


    on that note, who has ideas for memes when someone says there are none of us left?


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    This does reduce the over-supply of dil by slowing down the farmers.

    It really doesn't; it just means they have more set up time per character and need to establish 4x as many characters; they'd go from cycling 192 characters @8k Dil each in 16 hours to cycling 768 characters @2k Dil each in 16 hours (assuming an average 5 minute gap between characters after setting up doffing missions, login/logout, swapping accounts and breaks and all that jazz - I can't deny this may be a low estimate after all factors are reviewed)

    It isn't actually that much harder. And in any case these are massive over estimates because you'd use doffing and Admiralty to fill it in, so in actual fact for the time invested the farmers actually gain by going for the 768 characters because then they can use Dil from Admiralty and other doffing missions too to get the 768 characters to pull in 3k+ Dil per day.

    Logistically it does have massive disadvantages to have 768 characters, but if it could be done it would be clearly superior to the alternative, because fundamentally the only constraint on the most dedicated farmer is how long it takes to swap characters and having to supply basic life-sustenance; even an account cap wouldn't harm them except by creating another obstacle to overcome by making more accounts.

    ---

    Although, quite frankly, I think they'd stop at some point, we are talking between 1.5 and 2.3 million Dil per day...
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