Among other problems with the design, the Abrams Enterprise shares virtually nothing in common with a Prime Universe Constitution class in any variant or refit. Those are the ships people refer to as Constitution, JJPrize is something entirely different. Some people love it, others hate it, but neither would say it's the same thing.
This statement coming from a guy with the IDIC as his sig strikes me as funny.
You are the one furthering that divide by pretending that the reboot enterprise satisfies the demand for the original. You continually ignore the fact that people want the source, not the derivative.
When people talk about the constitution class, they don't mean the Kelvin version of it. You're being obtuse to think that. If I say "I want a connie", that means the TOS version. If I'm talking about the Kelvin version, I'll specify that. Why? Because that one is a derivative, the original gets precedence. Similarly, if I want a refit TMP era Connie, I'll say that to. I'll say "I want the refit Connie." If I don't specify a version, if I just say "I want a connie", that's the original. The one and only. The genuine article.
That is the entire point of wanting a connie: to get the ship that started it all- to get the ship that all subsequent ships have been modeled after. No derivative.
You disrespect the view that no substitution can replace that prime source. Far beyond this discussion, that is the source of all the division you so claim to decry: disrespect for origin.
That opinion in itself is making a pretty damned big divide. There will never be a TOS Connie at endgame for the exact same reasoning that there isn't an NX-01 at endgame. As to the "view" that no substitution can replace the prime source, this is pretty much fact; however, your desire for an obsolete ship at endgame is irrational at best. The version we have is most likely the best that will ever happen - it isn't "your and quite a few others'" replacement for a T6 Connie, but it is the only endgame Connie that we have as of right now.
As @evilmark444 said, there will probably be a T6 Cruiser 3-pack released later this year (or quite possibly next year, before the 50th year is up) - that will likely give you what you want. However, I'm content with the Kelvin Constitution for the time being.
So one universe's 150 year old starship makes sense, while another universe's 150 year old starship does not?
I have to laugh at some of these arguments. I mean it's just ridiculous.
And I have to laugh back. The recent dev blog regarding that very lock box stated the reason why the KTstution is T6. Granted, it's headcanon at best, but it's as close to an official answer as we're going to get - being players of the only officially-licensed ST game on the market right now. If you choose to ignore the given logic, what else can be done? After all, bad logic is still logic if it is the only existing logic.
About the suggested Cruiser 3-pack, what if it doesn't allow the use of the 2280's refit and Vesper skins? Will that, in your opinion, invalidate the *true* T6 cruiser?
So one dubious explanation is fine, but there's no way done dubious explanation work the other way around..? Give me a break.
We already have 23c T6 ships. They're retrofitted 26th century models. There you go. Simple explanation, already in the game.
I think before we set the entire explanation in stone, it's best to just wait it out for a few months. Like say September. For obvious reasons. I mean, that's what I would do if I were a huge crazy insane TOS fan who wanted to play Star Trek Online with as much TOS suff as possible, had pestered the forums and devs for YEARS asking for any and every small TOS thing they could think of, was one of only a tiny pocket of people who ever posted they wanted to fly a Daedalus in this game, and you know led the charge on TOS ANYTHING in STO. But since I'm not that, since I'm a troll and a fake fan, you can just ignore me.
You are the one furthering that divide by pretending that the reboot enterprise satisfies the demand for the original. You continually ignore the fact that people want the source, not the derivative.
When people talk about the constitution class, they don't mean the Kelvin version of it. You're being obtuse to think that. If I say "I want a connie", that means the TOS version. If I'm talking about the Kelvin version, I'll specify that. Why? Because that one is a derivative, the original gets precedence. Similarly, if I want a refit TMP era Connie, I'll say that to. I'll say "I want the refit Connie." If I don't specify a version, if I just say "I want a connie", that's the original. The one and only. The genuine article.
That is the entire point of wanting a connie: to get the ship that started it all- to get the ship that all subsequent ships have been modeled after. No derivative.
You disrespect the view that no substitution can replace that prime source. Far beyond this discussion, that is the source of all the division you so claim to decry: disrespect for origin.
That opinion in itself is making a pretty damned big divide. There will never be a TOS Connie at endgame for the exact same reasoning that there isn't an NX-01 at endgame. As to the "view" that no substitution can replace the prime source, this is pretty much fact; however, your desire for an obsolete ship at endgame is irrational at best. The version we have is most likely the best that will ever happen - it isn't "your and quite a few others'" replacement for a T6 Connie, but it is the only endgame Connie that we have as of right now.
As @evilmark444 said, there will probably be a T6 Cruiser 3-pack released later this year (or quite possibly next year, before the 50th year is up) - that will likely give you what you want. However, I'm content with the Kelvin Constitution for the time being.
You're forgetting: the Excelsior was the fleet workhorse for nearly 150 years - like the C-47 Dakota, it was most probably heavily over-engineered in order to meet the demands and expectations required of such a role.
The Galaxy is only about 50 years old, and was intended for approximately 100+ years of service.
The T'varo is hardly a Federation ship, and the fledgling Romulan Republic needs all the ships it can muster - even if those ships are outdated by comparison to what their contemporaries in the KDF and Federation have. Their shipyards are more than up to the task of a relatively simply refit.
And all of those pale in comparison to the fact that the Kelvin Connie is from an alternate timeline in which the development of Constitution, and all similar ships, was...accelerated, by scans taken of the Narada by the surviving crew of the USS Kelvin; as a result of that enhanced development stage, the Kelvin Constitution is far superior to the prime timeline ship class of the same name - due to it being reverse-engineered, designed, and built around late 24th-century tech.
Or is all of that so hard to understand for the purists among us?
I think before we set the entire explanation in stone, it's best to just wait it out for a few months. Like say September. For obvious reasons. I mean, that's what I would do if I were a huge crazy insane TOS fan who wanted to play Star Trek Online with as much TOS suff as possible, had pestered the forums and devs for YEARS asking for any and every small TOS thing they could think of, was one of only a tiny pocket of people who ever posted they wanted to fly a Daedalus in this game, and you know led the charge on TOS ANYTHING in STO. But since I'm not that, since I'm a troll and a fake fan, you can just ignore me.
I liked flying the T1 constitution in the 23c. It was surprisingly satisfying, even though I didn't have the right interior.
I *might* have considered buying the Kelvin Timeline Heavy Command Cruiser [T6] from the C-Store, even though I really hate the nacelles. As a lockbox ship, I just don't have the level of interest that would make me want to jump through the hoops to get it.
So, I'm glad that some people got a ship they can call a T6 Constitution and have fun with it.
But it's not the one I just had fun flying around and may never be.
So, I'm glad that some people got a ship they can call a T6 Constitution and have fun with it.
+1. You rock BG!
And in case anyone in any of these threads missed it ... I can't even begin to fully explain how amazing STO is for me right now, flying a T6 Daedalus! I'm now making a science build - torp ship - with EPGs as the focus. I'm using items I've never really thought of using on the last few ships I've focused on building. All to fit my TOS obsession.
Personally, I have no problem with the 2009 Constitution being in the game. It's not my favorite, but if a lock box happens to give me one, I won't turn it down.
I won't even say that it's not a "genuine" Constitution-class. That discussion isn't actually germane to the main point.
The main point is, genuine or not, it is not the specific look people were asking for. Yes, it may have a legitimate place in the game, but to say that it's exactly what people were asking for is essentially akin to giving someone who asked for Classic Coke a bottle of New Coke. They may both be Coke, but they are not the same Coke.
You're forgetting: the Excelsior was the fleet workhorse for nearly 150 years - like the C-47 Dakota, it was most probably heavily over-engineered in order to meet the demands and expectations required of such a role.
The Galaxy is only about 50 years old, and was intended for approximately 100+ years of service.
The T'varo is hardly a Federation ship, and the fledgling Romulan Republic needs all the ships it can muster - even if those ships are outdated by comparison to what their contemporaries in the KDF and Federation have. Their shipyards are more than up to the task of a relatively simply refit.
And all of those pale in comparison to the fact that the Kelvin Connie is from an alternate timeline in which the development of Constitution, and all similar ships, was...accelerated, by scans taken of the Narada by the surviving crew of the USS Kelvin; as a result of that enhanced development stage, the Kelvin Constitution is far superior to the prime timeline ship class of the same name - due to it being reverse-engineered, designed, and built around late 24th-century tech.
Or is all of that so hard to understand for the purists among us?
So, it's all because some neck beard geeks are trying to keep some holy cannon bible intact?
The number of Connies in this game is too much. Lets give some other ships the spotlight.
Warship Voyager
A "X series" based of the AGT timeline
The return of mirror version of ships.
The Sovy still needs a tier 6 upgrade over the TOS Connie
Comments
This statement coming from a guy with the IDIC as his sig strikes me as funny.
That opinion in itself is making a pretty damned big divide. There will never be a TOS Connie at endgame for the exact same reasoning that there isn't an NX-01 at endgame. As to the "view" that no substitution can replace the prime source, this is pretty much fact; however, your desire for an obsolete ship at endgame is irrational at best. The version we have is most likely the best that will ever happen - it isn't "your and quite a few others'" replacement for a T6 Connie, but it is the only endgame Connie that we have as of right now.
As @evilmark444 said, there will probably be a T6 Cruiser 3-pack released later this year (or quite possibly next year, before the 50th year is up) - that will likely give you what you want. However, I'm content with the Kelvin Constitution for the time being.
I have to laugh at some of these arguments. I mean it's just ridiculous.
And I have to laugh back. The recent dev blog regarding that very lock box stated the reason why the KTstution is T6. Granted, it's headcanon at best, but it's as close to an official answer as we're going to get - being players of the only officially-licensed ST game on the market right now. If you choose to ignore the given logic, what else can be done? After all, bad logic is still logic if it is the only existing logic.
About the suggested Cruiser 3-pack, what if it doesn't allow the use of the 2280's refit and Vesper skins? Will that, in your opinion, invalidate the *true* T6 cruiser?
We already have 23c T6 ships. They're retrofitted 26th century models. There you go. Simple explanation, already in the game.
I think before we set the entire explanation in stone, it's best to just wait it out for a few months. Like say September. For obvious reasons. I mean, that's what I would do if I were a huge crazy insane TOS fan who wanted to play Star Trek Online with as much TOS suff as possible, had pestered the forums and devs for YEARS asking for any and every small TOS thing they could think of, was one of only a tiny pocket of people who ever posted they wanted to fly a Daedalus in this game, and you know led the charge on TOS ANYTHING in STO. But since I'm not that, since I'm a troll and a fake fan, you can just ignore me.
Yet we got T6 Excelsior, Galaxy, and T'varos.
The Galaxy is only about 50 years old, and was intended for approximately 100+ years of service.
The T'varo is hardly a Federation ship, and the fledgling Romulan Republic needs all the ships it can muster - even if those ships are outdated by comparison to what their contemporaries in the KDF and Federation have. Their shipyards are more than up to the task of a relatively simply refit.
And all of those pale in comparison to the fact that the Kelvin Connie is from an alternate timeline in which the development of Constitution, and all similar ships, was...accelerated, by scans taken of the Narada by the surviving crew of the USS Kelvin; as a result of that enhanced development stage, the Kelvin Constitution is far superior to the prime timeline ship class of the same name - due to it being reverse-engineered, designed, and built around late 24th-century tech.
Or is all of that so hard to understand for the purists among us?
Don't even try to make sense of it.
Sarcasm does not serve you well.
I *might* have considered buying the Kelvin Timeline Heavy Command Cruiser [T6] from the C-Store, even though I really hate the nacelles. As a lockbox ship, I just don't have the level of interest that would make me want to jump through the hoops to get it.
So, I'm glad that some people got a ship they can call a T6 Constitution and have fun with it.
But it's not the one I just had fun flying around and may never be.
+1. You rock BG!
And in case anyone in any of these threads missed it ... I can't even begin to fully explain how amazing STO is for me right now, flying a T6 Daedalus! I'm now making a science build - torp ship - with EPGs as the focus. I'm using items I've never really thought of using on the last few ships I've focused on building. All to fit my TOS obsession.
AoY has expanded my playstyle!
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
"Listen to me very carefully my friend,
Killing will not bring you peace"
#retcons #reboots #cbsheadcanonmatters
There isn't except it.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
I agree, you need to make an exception!
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
I won't even say that it's not a "genuine" Constitution-class. That discussion isn't actually germane to the main point.
The main point is, genuine or not, it is not the specific look people were asking for. Yes, it may have a legitimate place in the game, but to say that it's exactly what people were asking for is essentially akin to giving someone who asked for Classic Coke a bottle of New Coke. They may both be Coke, but they are not the same Coke.
Gimme a break
Warship Voyager
A "X series" based of the AGT timeline
The return of mirror version of ships.
The Sovy still needs a tier 6 upgrade over the TOS Connie