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I found this said. I would like JJ Trek out of it's misery.
vivenneanthony
Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
in Ten Forward
Hey,
I'm open minded. I grew up on Star Trek but I think JJ twisted Gene's idea of Star Trek. I find it sad.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2016/07/07/john-cho-sulu-is-coming-out-of-the-closet-in-star-trek-beyond/86799682/
I found it interesting that Takei love the idea but doesn't like how Abrams and co. It's twisting Genes Star Trek. Instead of just creating a new character. I am reading Star Trek books and there is no mention of Sulu being TRIBBLE.
Hmmmm.
I'm open minded. I grew up on Star Trek but I think JJ twisted Gene's idea of Star Trek. I find it sad.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2016/07/07/john-cho-sulu-is-coming-out-of-the-closet-in-star-trek-beyond/86799682/
I found it interesting that Takei love the idea but doesn't like how Abrams and co. It's twisting Genes Star Trek. Instead of just creating a new character. I am reading Star Trek books and there is no mention of Sulu being TRIBBLE.
Hmmmm.
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-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
(That's Gene Coon, of course - he came up with most of the ideas and ideals in Trek. Roddenberry had kind of a vague idea where he was going with it, which mostly was to the bank with his checks.)
Well, he did have a daughter who was the helmsman on the Enterprise-B. Which at least implies Sulu was either heterosexual or bi-sexual.
This ^^^
or, you know, he picked a surrogate mother, as many TRIBBLE couples do even today
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"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Or that.
The first is a completely reimagined version of a character, like Ultimate X-Men's Collosus. This was a completely new version of the character, so I approved and didn't see anything wrong with it.
The second is when an existing straight character is retconned to be g.a.y, like Iceman. I would find it far more interesting if new characters were created in these situations.
Now, with Sulu, it's different, because it's a bit of both. Yes, he's an existing character, but his childhood may have changed as a result of the Kelvin's destruction, and we don't yet truly understand the roles of nature and nurture in the development of one's sexuality. So unless Prime Sulu is eventually shown as g.a.y somehow then we may never know for sure if he was always g.a.y, or if that only applies to the Kelvin Timeline Sulu. If it's just Kelvin Sulu, then I think it's awesome, but if this is meant as a retcon then I think it's st.upid.
Actually I'm LGBT also. First, As a person if someone request something not to be done to there character that they spent their whole life being a part of. I would listen. Two, If I wanted to add a LGBT character I would add one to the script not necessarily a established character on television, print media including fiction, and magazine, and fan fiction. Third, I'm tired of people force feeding ideas or philosophies on others.
To have Takei given a nod through John Cho's characterization of Sulu as being homosexual does put Takei in an awkward place, when Takei has seen Sulu as a separate character and not as himself. I can totally see why he'd be disappointed.
I really don't care who he sleeps with or why. Because he should be equally disinterested in my choices.
Considering it's the first official confirmation of a properly g.ay character (I don't think you can really count Dax as the symbiont is male) I'm sure they'll make every effort to keep it as off-hand as McCoy being straight (i.e. one off-hand mention of a ex-wife and that's it) and not to pander to ridiculous stereotypes, by having him redecorate the Enterprise or hit the gym every couple of scenes or whatever the current 2010's stereotypes are.
Really? He seems to be making a lot of money from it. That seems to be exactly on the mark for Gene.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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How on earth does having a child somehow determine one's sexuality? It doesn't. Sorry if this sounded more rude than intented, but it's those prejudices that really make things hard sometimes. I don't want to give in to a big lecture, but you would be surprised how many homosexual men and women have biological children without a "surrogate" and who do not did this as a "sacrifice" just to get a child and avoid adoption. You'd be surprised how many homosexual people live in relationships with the opposite sex. Those things aren't binary.
That being said, though, I do find it "clumsy" to declare the "new sulu" homosexual to praise Takei. I agree with him in that regard, why does it have to be Sulu, why not another character. This feels not empowering or acknowledging, it feels clumsy and actually sends mixed signals and if executed poorly might even translate to a bad joke. The mere fact that this comes as a announcement with such attention is already questionable. We're not there yet that homosexuals are simply portrayed as people in media without their sexuality somehow having to influence their character and actions. I at least hope it's well executed in this case, though I still question the decision in this form.
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The fact George Takei didn't seem all that surprised that Sulu had a daughter and was interested in who Demora's mother was and wanted to know more about the story behind all that and how Hikaru Sulu was involved tells me that even as an actor he wasn't particularly convinced Sulu was into other guys, even if his actor was.
But again, that's because George Takei always seemed like a professional who had little issue separating himself from a character.
If we reimagined every character in a Hollywood movie that was played by a homosexual guy as an actual homosexual to 'honor' the actor that played them, we'd see a whooooole lot of homosexual characters. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the whole point of being an actor is that you're playing somebody that isn't you. Maybe that rule doesn't apply to Bill Shatner, but I'd be kind of insulted if I devoted my life to a career of playing other people, only to see people reimagine the character I was playing to become more like who I was IRL -- which kind of goes against the whole point of convincing somebody you're someone else.
It ultimately is not that big of a deal, but I can at least understand Takei's disappointment.
I think you're reading too much into it. The novel "The Captain's Daughter" went into detail over Demora Sulu, and I want to say some other computer game also mentioned Demora's mother and her relationship to Hikaru Sulu.
I didn't mention it because then it would just spiral into another pointless discussion over the books not really being canon and therefore can't determine a fictional situation over another fictional situation. Which is only slightly less idiotic in determining a fictional situation over an internet message board.
That wasn't my point, in whole I agree as I said before, Takei's disappointment is well deserved and I could see this being executed clumsily would do more harm than good. I was just adressing the mere fact that having a child or be in a relationship with the opposite sex does not serve as a proof of one's sexuality. This is ultimately pointless to argue, it was just that I felt the need to adress that as you were quick pointing out it serving as proof. Of course talking about a fictional character that might be true as he was written with some intent but it would not be unrealistic that Sulu could of course be TRIBBLE. But I would actually be a bit disappointed to see it, for reasons I stated before.
It would be just a tad bit ignorant to use external indicators to determine a person's sexuality (there are non that could be proof, sexuality is a spectrum too broad for that), that was the issue I was having with you former statement, although it is of course only partly relevant to the fictional character we talk about.
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Heck, the episode where Bashir was forced to implant Keiko's baby into Major Kira suggested that even he could have been the "donor" (it was probably just not very practical to operate on himself.)
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-takei-reacts-TRIBBLE-sulu-909154
Well, my father is g.a.y, was not in the closet when he met my mother, married my mother, and my mother knew his previous relationship had been with a man. So just having a kid doesn't automatically make him straight, but considering how rare my family situation is it certainly makes it more likely that Prime Sulu was straight than g.a.y.
* Like you, I don't count Jadzia. The symbiote actually has no biological sex and the sexuality of the joined Trill seems pretty fluid.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
and it wasn't ezri dax, since the symbiont was killed along with jadzia in the mirror universe
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Ever heard of trans people? Because Sulu's husband could be a trans man and that wouldn't make him any less a man, or Sulu any less TRIBBLE, and yet he could still give birth to a daughter.
Or what do I know. We are dealing with a universe that has faster than light travel, teleportation devices and that can magically heal nearly anything, yet a TRIBBLE man having a daughter is somehow impossible.
I find that complete lack of any kind of imagination sad.
“He’s right, it is unfortunate, it’s unfortunate that the screen version of the most inclusive, tolerant universe in science fiction hasn’t featured an LGBT character until now," added Pegg. "We could have introduced a new TRIBBLE character, but he or she would have been primarily defined by their sexuality, seen as the ‘TRIBBLE character’, rather than simply for who they are, and isn’t that tokenism?”
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"