It's a synonym for a majority catering to a minority without actually consulting with that minority, it's not meant to be taken literally.
The point is, including a LGBT character into Star Trek seems like the natural thing to do. But it would be most welcome if it is done in a way that promotes equality which is a mark they already clearly missed at this point because choosing Sulu, specifically as a way to "honour" Takei, is a very unlucky choice. And their statement that a new character would be predestined to become "the TRIBBLE character" shows a lack in imagination and writing skill I don't think they really thought this through as opposed to simply shove it into there.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's a synonym for a majority catering to a minority without actually consulting with that minority, it's not meant to be taken literally.
The point is, including a LGBT character into Star Trek seems like the natural thing to do. But it would be most welcome if it is done in a way that promotes equality which is a mark they already clearly missed at this point because choosing Sulu, specifically as a way to "honour" Takei, is a very unlucky choice. And their statement that a new character would be predestined to become "the **** character" shows a lack in imagination and writing skill I don't think they really thought this through as opposed to simply shove it into there.
I deleted my comment before you posted your response but okay. I just have a bad knee jerk reaction to comments like that.
I deleted my comment before you posted your response but okay. I just have a bad knee jerk reaction to comments like that.
No problem. For me it is a expression I use and didn't realize it could be considered offensive. Sorry about that.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
“He’s right, it is unfortunate, it’s unfortunate that the screen version of the most inclusive, tolerant universe in science fiction hasn’t featured an LGBT character until now," added Pegg. "We could have introduced a new **** character, but he or she would have been primarily defined by their sexuality, seen as the ‘**** character’, rather than simply for who they are, and isn’t that tokenism?”
They could've just introduced a new character, had him really shine in some way during the movie and save the main cast somehow, and only reveal to moviegoers that he's g.a.y at the end after his actions have already defined him. The crew would have always known in-universe, but they wouldn't have mentioned it because there's nothing wrong with it.
The thing is, though, it's a two-hour movie, not a full TV series, and they have to get the action scenes and such in (which is not a slam against the Kelvin Timeline films, just an observation that big-budget sci-fi films, including all but two of the prime universe Star Trek films, tend to be action-oriented). To properly avoid tokenism the new character has to be somebody who's important enough to care about, e.g. the way the new films upgraded Uhura from "token black lady who answers the phone", most of her role in TOS, to a fully realized main character. (And let her speak tlhIngan Hol for realsies!)
And because of the ensemble nature of Star Trek (and of writing a ship crew in general) there's a lot of major characters in the film already: you've got Kirk, Spock, Scotty, McCoy, and Uhura as main characters and Sulu and Chekov in supporting roles, plus Idris Elba's villain Krall and the alien lady whom I'm guessing is the film's Token Heroic Orc. This isn't DS9 where they can have recurring visitors to the station over several years.
In essence, due to the limitations of the format there's barely any room for a new supporting character in the film, so if they want a non-token LGBT they kinda have to use a character audiences are already familiar with. This is something I've dealt with myself: I've got it in my head for my STO fan fiction that Kanril Eleya's chief medical officer Warragul Wirrpanda is g@y, but I haven't brought it up at all because he appears so rarely (since most of the stories dealing with that crew are told from first-person POV of Eleya herself, and she's on the bridge 90% of the time) and I'd want such a revelation to come up organically.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
“He’s right, it is unfortunate, it’s unfortunate that the screen version of the most inclusive, tolerant universe in science fiction hasn’t featured an LGBT character until now," added Pegg. "We could have introduced a new **** character, but he or she would have been primarily defined by their sexuality, seen as the ‘**** character’, rather than simply for who they are, and isn’t that tokenism?”
They could've just introduced a new character, had him really shine in some way during the movie and save the main cast somehow, and only reveal to moviegoers that he's g.a.y at the end after his actions have already defined him. The crew would have always known in-universe, but they wouldn't have mentioned it because there's nothing wrong with it.
The thing is, though, it's a two-hour movie, not a full TV series, and they have to get the action scenes and such in (which is not a slam against the Kelvin Timeline films, just an observation that big-budget sci-fi films, including all but two of the prime universe Star Trek films, tend to be action-oriented). To properly avoid tokenism the new character has to be somebody who's important enough to care about, e.g. the way the new films upgraded Uhura from "token black lady who answers the phone", most of her role in TOS, to a fully realized main character. (And let her speak tlhIngan Hol for realsies!)
And because of the ensemble nature of Star Trek (and of writing a ship crew in general) there's a lot of major characters in the film already: you've got Kirk, Spock, Scotty, McCoy, and Uhura as main characters and Sulu and Chekov in supporting roles, plus Idris Elba's villain Krall and the alien lady whom I'm guessing is the film's Token Heroic Orc. This isn't DS9 where they can have recurring visitors to the station over several years.
In essence, due to the limitations of the format there's barely any room for a new supporting character in the film, so if they want a non-token LGBT they kinda have to use a character audiences are already familiar with. This is something I've dealt with myself: I've got it in my head for my STO fan fiction that Kanril Eleya's chief medical officer Warragul Wirrpanda is g@y, but I haven't brought it up at all because he appears so rarely (since most of the stories dealing with that crew are told from first-person POV of Eleya herself, and she's on the bridge 90% of the time) and I'd want such a revelation to come up organically.
Lieutenant Hawk... Best example I can think of a new supporting character who was absolutely 100% involved in every shot he was in and was far from a token redshirt in terms of role in the movie...
Into Darkness had the opportunity to explore the character who replaced Chekov, or the officer with the white hair, or the bald guy, but it didn't, it just treated them as mobile/vocal set-dressing rather than characters...
Lieutenant Hawk... Best example I can think of a new supporting character who was absolutely 100% involved in every shot he was in and was far from a token redshirt in terms of role in the movie...
Did he have a personality, other than willing to join Worf and Picard ona risky mission?
And if he had been made homsexual, wouldn't that be just another murdered LGBT character? (Except it would have have been before the topic was en vogue...)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Reportedly, Hawk was supposed to be mentioned as g.ay, but there wasn't really a way to work the reference into the script organically (since, after all, his role in the movie was just his willingness to go with Worf and Picard).
Which, incidentally, is an illustration of the problem of introducing a new g.ay character in a movie - you have two hours, none of it can lag or you'll lose the audience, and you just don't really have time to both have the existing camaraderie among the known crew and introduce a new character who's anything more than a cardboard cutout. If there had been a revival of TOS, then by all means, that would have been an excellent time for a new LGBT character to be introduced - you'd have episodes of time in which to flesh them out. Under the circumstances, however....
Lieutenant Hawk... Best example I can think of a new supporting character who was absolutely 100% involved in every shot he was in and was far from a token redshirt in terms of role in the movie...
Did he have a personality, other than willing to join Worf and Picard ona risky mission?
And if he had been made homsexual, wouldn't that be just another murdered LGBT character? (Except it would have have been before the topic was en vogue...)
Yes, he was a competent, interested and engaged officer, who took the initiative in action and conversation. He was definitely more than a 'background character', so even though he wasn't say, as fully fleshed out as say Decker and Ilia, he was certainly moreso than some of the other background extras (such as Jay(Jai?) who had been haunting the bridge since TNG's run, and who never even spoke
Comments
It's a synonym for a majority catering to a minority without actually consulting with that minority, it's not meant to be taken literally.
The point is, including a LGBT character into Star Trek seems like the natural thing to do. But it would be most welcome if it is done in a way that promotes equality which is a mark they already clearly missed at this point because choosing Sulu, specifically as a way to "honour" Takei, is a very unlucky choice. And their statement that a new character would be predestined to become "the TRIBBLE character" shows a lack in imagination and writing skill I don't think they really thought this through as opposed to simply shove it into there.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I deleted my comment before you posted your response but okay. I just have a bad knee jerk reaction to comments like that.
No problem. For me it is a expression I use and didn't realize it could be considered offensive. Sorry about that.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Probably not offensive in of itself. I took it out of context and realized I probably overreacted, hence the comment deletion.
The thing is, though, it's a two-hour movie, not a full TV series, and they have to get the action scenes and such in (which is not a slam against the Kelvin Timeline films, just an observation that big-budget sci-fi films, including all but two of the prime universe Star Trek films, tend to be action-oriented). To properly avoid tokenism the new character has to be somebody who's important enough to care about, e.g. the way the new films upgraded Uhura from "token black lady who answers the phone", most of her role in TOS, to a fully realized main character. (And let her speak tlhIngan Hol for realsies!)
And because of the ensemble nature of Star Trek (and of writing a ship crew in general) there's a lot of major characters in the film already: you've got Kirk, Spock, Scotty, McCoy, and Uhura as main characters and Sulu and Chekov in supporting roles, plus Idris Elba's villain Krall and the alien lady whom I'm guessing is the film's Token Heroic Orc. This isn't DS9 where they can have recurring visitors to the station over several years.
In essence, due to the limitations of the format there's barely any room for a new supporting character in the film, so if they want a non-token LGBT they kinda have to use a character audiences are already familiar with. This is something I've dealt with myself: I've got it in my head for my STO fan fiction that Kanril Eleya's chief medical officer Warragul Wirrpanda is g@y, but I haven't brought it up at all because he appears so rarely (since most of the stories dealing with that crew are told from first-person POV of Eleya herself, and she's on the bridge 90% of the time) and I'd want such a revelation to come up organically.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Lieutenant Hawk... Best example I can think of a new supporting character who was absolutely 100% involved in every shot he was in and was far from a token redshirt in terms of role in the movie...
Into Darkness had the opportunity to explore the character who replaced Chekov, or the officer with the white hair, or the bald guy, but it didn't, it just treated them as mobile/vocal set-dressing rather than characters...
And if he had been made homsexual, wouldn't that be just another murdered LGBT character? (Except it would have have been before the topic was en vogue...)
Which, incidentally, is an illustration of the problem of introducing a new g.ay character in a movie - you have two hours, none of it can lag or you'll lose the audience, and you just don't really have time to both have the existing camaraderie among the known crew and introduce a new character who's anything more than a cardboard cutout. If there had been a revival of TOS, then by all means, that would have been an excellent time for a new LGBT character to be introduced - you'd have episodes of time in which to flesh them out. Under the circumstances, however....