This is a behind the scenes image of them in proper lighting
And here are some of those concepts.
As can be seen, feline-kind and cats specifically play no part in the concept, development, or final product.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As long as we establish rules of canon that accept that anything on screen becomes canon and you have a someone involved in the film directly stating that they are Caitians, then by all definitions regarding what we consider to be canon that sums it up quite nicely.
But CBS says only things said or shown onscreen are canon. They are not said to be Caitians (through dialogue) or shown to be Caitians (by having the appearance of them) onscreen so as far as CBS' official canon policy is concerned, they are not Caitians.
If people want to use directors and writers comments in their headcanon, that's fine. I don't see why anybody would want to take off the cuff remarks with no background thought into their headcanon, but that's up to them.
This hasn't stopped CBS from using the Kelvin Timeline name instead of the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin Reality name. By the logic of only what is seen in the movies and TV series is canon, the Kelvin Timeline is not canon. The Kelvin Universe and Kelvin Reality names are not contradictory to what is shown in the movies since there is no explanation about what the Kelvin Universe is in the movies. There is absolutely nothing in the new Star Trek movies that proves that a new timeline was created or that the Prime Universe is perfectly fine from Nero going back in time to kill Kirk's father. According to The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, and Children of Time, either the Prime Universe is perfectly fine and the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe or the Prime Universe is destroyed and the Kelvin Universe replaced the Prime Universe since changing the past destroys the original future. All we have is one of the creators of Star Trek 2009 claiming that a new timeline was created and the Prime Universe is perfectly fine. All there is in the movies is the following discussion:
KIRK: There won't be a next engagement. By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late. But you say he's from the future, knows what's going to happen, then the logical thing is to be unpredictable.
SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed. Mr. Sulu, plot a course to the Laurentian system warp factor three.
All that Spock and the rest of the Enterprise crew know is that a Romulan claiming to be from the future is attacking them. There is no evidence to support that Nero came from their future. Only that he came from a future similar to their own. The Kelvin Universe could have resulted in a future similar to the one that we know with a few slight variations like hairless Caitians, but Nero's interference destroyed the possibility of that future. So Spock and Nero could have traveled to another dimension that looks similar to the 23rd Century with absolutely no time travel involved. If that is the case and and 1 second in the Prime Universe equals 1 second in the Kelvin Universe, then 0718 is traveling back in time to interact with the 25th Century since Star Trek 2009 happens from 2387 to 2412 according to the Prime Universe's time and 2233 to 2258 according to the Kelvin Universe's time. 0718 first appears in Into Darkness which means he first makes an appearance in 2259 according to the Kelvin Universe and 2413 according to the STO universe.
Okay, but Klingons don't look like the same Klingons from the TOS series either. Yes, that's now been retconned as a virus created by the augmenting process in Enterprise, but nevertheless, there's a precedent for changes in how a species looks from one series to the next. And again, regarding the term "caitian" as is referencing the TAS species, that comes from an outside source just as much as the confirmation of those being Caitians in ID.
As long as we establish rules of canon that accept that anything on screen becomes canon and you have a someone involved in the film directly stating that they are Caitians, then by all definitions regarding what we consider to be canon that sums it up quite nicely.
But CBS says only things said or shown onscreen are canon. They are not said to be Caitians (through dialogue) or shown to be Caitians (by having the appearance of them) onscreen so as far as CBS' official canon policy is concerned, they are not Caitians.
If people want to use directors and writers comments in their headcanon, that's fine. I don't see why anybody would want to take off the cuff remarks with no background thought into their headcanon, but that's up to them.
This hasn't stopped CBS from using the Kelvin Timeline name instead of the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin Reality name. By the logic of only what is seen in the movies and TV series is canon, the Kelvin Timeline is not canon. The Kelvin Universe and Kelvin Reality names are not contradictory to what is shown in the movies since there is no explanation about what the Kelvin Universe is in the movies. There is absolutely nothing in the new Star Trek movies that proves that a new timeline was created or that the Prime Universe is perfectly fine from Nero going back in time to kill Kirk's father. According to The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, and Children of Time, either the Prime Universe is perfectly fine and the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe or the Prime Universe is destroyed and the Kelvin Universe replaced the Prime Universe since changing the past destroys the original future. All we have is one of the creators of Star Trek 2009 claiming that a new timeline was created and the Prime Universe is perfectly fine. All there is in the movies is the following discussion:
KIRK: There won't be a next engagement. By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late. But you say he's from the future, knows what's going to happen, then the logical thing is to be unpredictable.
SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed. Mr. Sulu, plot a course to the Laurentian system warp factor three.
All that Spock and the rest of the Enterprise crew know is that a Romulan claiming to be from the future is attacking them. There is no evidence to support that Nero came from their future. Only that he came from a future similar to their own. The Kelvin Universe could have resulted in a future similar to the one that we know with a few slight variations like hairless Caitians, but Nero's interference destroyed the possibility of that future. So Spock and Nero could have traveled to another dimension that looks similar to the 23rd Century with absolutely no time travel involved. If that is the case and and 1 second in the Prime Universe equals 1 second in the Kelvin Universe, then 0718 is traveling back in time to interact with the 25th Century since Star Trek 2009 happens from 2387 to 2412 according to the Prime Universe's time and 2233 to 2258 according to the Kelvin Universe's time. 0718 first appears in Into Darkness which means he first makes an appearance in 2259 according to the Kelvin Universe and 2413 according to the STO universe.
...“Canon” in the sense that I use it is a very important tool. It only gets muddled when people try to incorporate licensed products into “canon”—and I know a lot of the fans really like to do that. Sorry, guys—not trying to rain on your parade. There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens...
Bolded and reded the relevant part. The Kelvin Timeline is the focus of 09 and ID, two films, i.e. '...Star Trek continuity as presented Movie screens...'.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You ca do an image search on the "twins". There are several concept sketches for them and all of them were supposed to be just some random colourful alien (human with bodypaint, basically). There's nothing at all hinting at any planned resemblance to anything else, least of all Caitians that have actual cat features.
And they were some unnamed alien race until the co-producer and co-writer of Into Darkness opened up his big mouth and called them Caitians. If you define canon by what the creators of Star Trek say in interviews and other forms of communication not in the movies or TV series, then hairless Caitians are canon by Damon Lindelof because he is in a position of authority for Star Trek.
You ca do an image search on the "twins". There are several concept sketches for them and all of them were supposed to be just some random colourful alien (human with bodypaint, basically). There's nothing at all hinting at any planned resemblance to anything else, least of all Caitians that have actual cat features.
And they were some unnamed alien race until the co-producer and co-writer of Into Darkness opened up his big mouth and called them Caitians. If you define canon by what the creators of Star Trek say in interviews and other forms of communication not in the movies or TV series, then hairless Caitians are canon by Damon Lindelof because he is in a position of authority for Star Trek.
...“Canon” in the sense that I use it is a very important tool. It only gets muddled when people try to incorporate licensed products into “canon”—and I know a lot of the fans really like to do that. Sorry, guys—not trying to rain on your parade. There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens...
@angrytarg did a whole thread on it, with references to who Paula Block is and why behind the scenes stuff is not canon.
So anything Lindelof says does not default to 'canon' just because he said it. Unless it's presented onscreen it remains a personal opinion you're all welcome to incorporate into your personal headcanons if you want.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As long as we establish rules of canon that accept that anything on screen becomes canon and you have a someone involved in the film directly stating that they are Caitians, then by all definitions regarding what we consider to be canon that sums it up quite nicely.
But CBS says only things said or shown onscreen are canon. They are not said to be Caitians (through dialogue) or shown to be Caitians (by having the appearance of them) onscreen so as far as CBS' official canon policy is concerned, they are not Caitians.
If people want to use directors and writers comments in their headcanon, that's fine. I don't see why anybody would want to take off the cuff remarks with no background thought into their headcanon, but that's up to them.
This hasn't stopped CBS from using the Kelvin Timeline name instead of the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin Reality name. By the logic of only what is seen in the movies and TV series is canon, the Kelvin Timeline is not canon. The Kelvin Universe and Kelvin Reality names are not contradictory to what is shown in the movies since there is no explanation about what the Kelvin Universe is in the movies. There is absolutely nothing in the new Star Trek movies that proves that a new timeline was created or that the Prime Universe is perfectly fine from Nero going back in time to kill Kirk's father. According to The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, and Children of Time, either the Prime Universe is perfectly fine and the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe or the Prime Universe is destroyed and the Kelvin Universe replaced the Prime Universe since changing the past destroys the original future. All we have is one of the creators of Star Trek 2009 claiming that a new timeline was created and the Prime Universe is perfectly fine. All there is in the movies is the following discussion:
KIRK: There won't be a next engagement. By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late. But you say he's from the future, knows what's going to happen, then the logical thing is to be unpredictable.
SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed. Mr. Sulu, plot a course to the Laurentian system warp factor three.
All that Spock and the rest of the Enterprise crew know is that a Romulan claiming to be from the future is attacking them. There is no evidence to support that Nero came from their future. Only that he came from a future similar to their own. The Kelvin Universe could have resulted in a future similar to the one that we know with a few slight variations like hairless Caitians, but Nero's interference destroyed the possibility of that future. So Spock and Nero could have traveled to another dimension that looks similar to the 23rd Century with absolutely no time travel involved. If that is the case and and 1 second in the Prime Universe equals 1 second in the Kelvin Universe, then 0718 is traveling back in time to interact with the 25th Century since Star Trek 2009 happens from 2387 to 2412 according to the Prime Universe's time and 2233 to 2258 according to the Kelvin Universe's time. 0718 first appears in Into Darkness which means he first makes an appearance in 2259 according to the Kelvin Universe and 2413 according to the STO universe.
...“Canon” in the sense that I use it is a very important tool. It only gets muddled when people try to incorporate licensed products into “canon”—and I know a lot of the fans really like to do that. Sorry, guys—not trying to rain on your parade. There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens...
Bolded and reded the relevant part. The Kelvin Timeline is the focus of 09 and ID, two films, i.e. '...Star Trek continuity as presented Movie screens...'.
Actually, the Kelvin class Starship and costumes as I pointed out earlier defies the notion. The Kelvin is much bigger than star ships from the TOS era, it has a unique single nacelle design that is not used anywhere at all in TOS and the uniforms do not match anything resembling that of Starfleet from TOS. That's certainly enough to throw askew the notion that only the Spock/Nero timeline was the deciding factor. Add to that, Klingon vessels and Klingons themselves do not resemble their TOS counterparts and going back to the augmentation virus that I had previously mentioned, this is a big discrepancy right there on film that establishes the Kelvin Universe as being different from the Prime.
You ca do an image search on the "twins". There are several concept sketches for them and all of them were supposed to be just some random colourful alien (human with bodypaint, basically). There's nothing at all hinting at any planned resemblance to anything else, least of all Caitians that have actual cat features.
And they were some unnamed alien race until the co-producer and co-writer of Into Darkness opened up his big mouth and called them Caitians. If you define canon by what the creators of Star Trek say in interviews and other forms of communication not in the movies or TV series, then hairless Caitians are canon by Damon Lindelof because he is in a position of authority for Star Trek.
...“Canon” in the sense that I use it is a very important tool. It only gets muddled when people try to incorporate licensed products into “canon”—and I know a lot of the fans really like to do that. Sorry, guys—not trying to rain on your parade. There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens...
@angrytarg did a whole thread on it, with references to who Paula Block is and why behind the scenes stuff is not canon.
So anything Lindelof says does not default to 'canon' just because he said it. Unless it's presented onscreen it remains a personal opinion you're all welcome to incorporate into your personal headcanons if you want.
Okay, then Caitians do not exist period and we simply have unnamed aliens in or out of the prime universe since they were never referenced in any way as thus on screen.
As long as we establish rules of canon that accept that anything on screen becomes canon and you have a someone involved in the film directly stating that they are Caitians, then by all definitions regarding what we consider to be canon that sums it up quite nicely.
But CBS says only things said or shown onscreen are canon. They are not said to be Caitians (through dialogue) or shown to be Caitians (by having the appearance of them) onscreen so as far as CBS' official canon policy is concerned, they are not Caitians.
If people want to use directors and writers comments in their headcanon, that's fine. I don't see why anybody would want to take off the cuff remarks with no background thought into their headcanon, but that's up to them.
This hasn't stopped CBS from using the Kelvin Timeline name instead of the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin Reality name. By the logic of only what is seen in the movies and TV series is canon, the Kelvin Timeline is not canon. The Kelvin Universe and Kelvin Reality names are not contradictory to what is shown in the movies since there is no explanation about what the Kelvin Universe is in the movies. There is absolutely nothing in the new Star Trek movies that proves that a new timeline was created or that the Prime Universe is perfectly fine from Nero going back in time to kill Kirk's father. According to The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, and Children of Time, either the Prime Universe is perfectly fine and the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe or the Prime Universe is destroyed and the Kelvin Universe replaced the Prime Universe since changing the past destroys the original future. All we have is one of the creators of Star Trek 2009 claiming that a new timeline was created and the Prime Universe is perfectly fine. All there is in the movies is the following discussion:
KIRK: There won't be a next engagement. By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late. But you say he's from the future, knows what's going to happen, then the logical thing is to be unpredictable.
SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed. Mr. Sulu, plot a course to the Laurentian system warp factor three.
All that Spock and the rest of the Enterprise crew know is that a Romulan claiming to be from the future is attacking them. There is no evidence to support that Nero came from their future. Only that he came from a future similar to their own. The Kelvin Universe could have resulted in a future similar to the one that we know with a few slight variations like hairless Caitians, but Nero's interference destroyed the possibility of that future. So Spock and Nero could have traveled to another dimension that looks similar to the 23rd Century with absolutely no time travel involved. If that is the case and and 1 second in the Prime Universe equals 1 second in the Kelvin Universe, then 0718 is traveling back in time to interact with the 25th Century since Star Trek 2009 happens from 2387 to 2412 according to the Prime Universe's time and 2233 to 2258 according to the Kelvin Universe's time. 0718 first appears in Into Darkness which means he first makes an appearance in 2259 according to the Kelvin Universe and 2413 according to the STO universe.
...“Canon” in the sense that I use it is a very important tool. It only gets muddled when people try to incorporate licensed products into “canon”—and I know a lot of the fans really like to do that. Sorry, guys—not trying to rain on your parade. There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens...
Bolded and reded the relevant part. The Kelvin Timeline is the focus of 09 and ID, two films, i.e. '...Star Trek continuity as presented Movie screens...'.
So where in the movies and TV series do they explain that a new timeline was created from the actions of Nero? Since there is no mention of a new timeline, then it is not canon. All the movie mentions is an alternate reality which can be an alternate timeline or parallel universe which are two completely different concepts.
Add to that, Klingon vessels and Klingons themselves do not resemble their TOS counterparts and going back to the augmentation virus that I had previously mentioned, this is a big discrepancy right there on film that establishes the Kelvin Universe as being different from the Prime.
The Warbird has not appeared in the PR, the D4 BoP has not appeared in the PR, how can they be any different from those ships, especially as there is no evidence to suggest they are from a pre-Kelvin period in the first place.
And again, where was it ever implied in ENT that the virus effected EVERY Klingon?
So, again, no differences between the Pre-KT universe and the PU up to the attack on the Kelvin.
Okay, then Caitians do not exist period and we simply have unnamed aliens in or out of the prime universe since they were never referenced in any way as thus on screen.
I haven't seen TAS for a while, but I'm sure M'Ress says the name of her home planet at one point, I remember somebody asking for the official pronunciation here in the past.
So where in the movies and TV series do they explain that a new timeline was created from the the actions of Nero? Since there is no mention of a new timeline, then it is not canon. All the movie mentions is an alternate reality which can be an alternate timeline or parallel universe which are two completely different concepts.
What? You're going to have to make that a bit more legible.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
So where in the movies and TV series do they explain that a new timeline was created from the the actions of Nero? Since there is no mention of a new timeline, then it is not canon. All the movie mentions is an alternate reality which can be an alternate timeline or parallel universe which are two completely different concepts.
What? You're going to have to make that a bit more legible.
Thought I made myself perfectly clear, but I will rephrase it. Since Paula Block which is in charge of all licensed Star Trek products has stated that "canon is Star Trek continuity as represented on TV and Movie screens", then even CBS can't define what is canon outside of TV and Movie screens. CBS is claiming the Kelvin Universe to be the Kelvin Timeline, but there is absolutely no mention of timelines in Star Trek 2009 just an alternate reality as shown in my previous post that you didn't even bother reading. Therefore, CBS calling it the Kelvin Timeline is not canon.
A parallel universe would be what is shown in the Parallels episode in TNG. An infinite number of realities that have slight differences, but were created naturally. The Sliders series is another good example of this. Alternate timelines are the result of temporal manipulation. Old Biff steals Doc's Delorean and gives Grays Sport Almanac to his younger self and creates a dystopian 1980s timeline as a result. McCoy goes to the 20th Century and the Enterprise in the 23rd Century disappears. The Borg go to the 21st Century and 24th Century Earth is assimilated.
I'll just say this, the twins are the closest thing to a Caitian that would NOT be riding the airlock express off my ship ...
While I don't share the same fondness for the airlock express and have one Caitian bridge officer and a few Caitian duty officers, I will be getting a couple of twins on my ship and might make that as my new TOS Captain depending on what else is available.
Ok, really guys, does the mere existence of this whole conversation not tell you why Cryptic didn't open that can of worms on a product plainly designed to attract new players?
I'll be rolling a Vulcan Tac officer bound for a Perseus-skinned Theseus. Her first officer will be a Human Tac named Flash Johnson, because lowbrow humor.
You ca do an image search on the "twins". There are several concept sketches for them and all of them were supposed to be just some random colourful alien (human with bodypaint, basically). There's nothing at all hinting at any planned resemblance to anything else, least of all Caitians that have actual cat features.
It's because Lindelof latched onto the word 'Caitian' and agreed because he assumed it made him look like he knew what he was on about. At no point in the design of the random aliens (including the final one onscreen) were Caitians considered.
Not unless somebody finds anything feline about this?
What do you expect from JJ Trek? The Gorn they had in mind to make at one point looked hideous.
Ok, really guys, does the mere existence of this whole conversation not tell you why Cryptic didn't open that can of worms on a product plainly designed to attract new players?
Which is why it doesn't make sense. If they are trying to attract new players to the game, then they would focus on adding the popular new races from the new Star Trek movies not limit it to 4 races from TOS. I could see Klingons getting an update so that we get the Kelvin Universe Klingons.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Ok, really guys, does the mere existence of this whole conversation not tell you why Cryptic didn't open that can of worms on a product plainly designed to attract new players?
I think you're onto something, but I believe that it's the other way around. I think that one of the devs was sooo adamant about what could be, what had to be TOS that their interpretation had to be the gospel by which this faction was made and nothing else. It's not for the benefit of the players that we don't have more alien races: there's certainly plenty of room to add other aliens thanks to TAS and Enterprise or what we know off screen about other races. It's for the benefit of the staff at Cryptic Studios.
Now, that doesn't mean that I hold anything against that or that it's a bad thing. We're Star Trek nerds. At some point, every Star Trek nerd gets this rage about something and yeah... In that sense, it's actually kind of refreshing to think that the devs really get that involved into the stories and the worlds that they are creating.
At first, I was bummed out as I said before. I wanted to make an elaborate backstory about an alien gen character I had already created blah blah blah. But now... I kinda like rolling fem characters every now and again and I've never rolled an Andorian before. Thanks to the Infinity Lockbox, I've been stocking up on some stuff exclusively for the this character and I've already bought some outfits off the exchange and what I've gotten on Risa. In a weird way, I feel like this limitation will actually be a blessing.
But just in case, I'm rolling a separate male character soon after in case I want to temporal recruit with that TRIBBLE instead.
I was able to delete the Delta recruits is short order, but the seriously long term nature of Temporal Recruit could mean like a year of playing to finish the taks for me being since i have a life outside of the game and a fulltime job.
Thats not a dis to people btw, saying people dont have lives, not what i mean. I just can pour as much time as id like and used to. So my fugly human will be a permanent addtion to my sto family.
You don't do a TOS themed expansion to attract movie folks, and believe it or not you don't do it to appease the pent up nostalgia-lust of your existing players. You do it because out there in the big wide world beyond STO there's an anniversary coming up that's reminding millions of people "Oh yeah, I loved that show when I was a kid."
Be clear: NO ONE ON THESE BOARDS IS THE TARGET AUDIENCE.
They've laced it with other goodies to keep us amused, but the core objective here is new player acquisition and all decisions were made in that light. They are specifically positioning themselves to show up at Star Trek Las Vegas and do their little circus act for TOS fans who are not already STO fans... a category that for the most part DOES NOT include fans who know a goddamn thing about the series beyond what they saw on the small screen and who don't give a flying targ's severed buttocks about 14 other races that are canonically part of the Federation at that time. Not the point. Never was. Never will be.
Its a hunt for completely NEW players, and because profession and race are some of the only BINDING AND UNCHANGABLE decisions you make in the entire game, and at the mechanical level they're tied to a whole slew of traits and effects that are totally opaque and mysterious to a new fan you do not overload their decision making process. You don't ever want a new player second guessing themselves and wondering if they botched a critical decision only seconds into play. 4 races is actually a little on the high side - three choices in a blind, binding array is the industry norm for very deeply rooted reasons of human psychology and you can see that fact in how many classes we have in STO - THREE.
Humans and Vulcans were in. There was no third choice that would complete a logical set, but by adding both Andorians and Tellarites... Behold - the 4 founders of the Federation. Write a blog and ship it!
For crying out loud, you can't make an Aenar Captain in the regular Federation Faction!!! They are only available as a C-Store Bridge Officer.
For Canonheads, the only Species commanding Federation Starships in TOS (not TAS) was Humans, and by plot dialog, Vulcans. Andorians and Tellerites were only Babel Representatives in TOS, but from Star Trek Enterprise we know they commanded their own ships. Had they been brought in to be part of the regular Fleet of vessels we are being given? Don't know, but Cryptic is assuming so and giving you that option.
Don't like the 'Founders of the Federation' Species because you can't live without tails or can't create a 7' Alien with some really over-sized head, well then you will have to miss out on a bunch of Missions and the Account perks that comes from being a Temporal Recruit.
All four Factions starting stories thrust us into a situation we were not prepared for. We make due with WHAT WE HAVE, overcome adversities, and grow into our career. Maybe we should learn from that lesson.
UESPA, anyone?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I believe you missed Mr. Gecko's explanation in his very first AoY interview with P-1, about Their 'reasons' for limiting the player character types for this expansion...
And according to him at that time, yes it was "set in stone."
Lol yea davey, as usual you dont read between the lines or just dont post it when you do, i will.
What Mr. Gecko's explanation didn't include as reasons for limiting character types is this.
The overhead it would have cost to do it was put into z-store ships instead.
After all this time, I kinda-sorta figured THAT went without actually saying, but it does get covered in the "reasons" part of my post.
Uh huh, and all those other reasons for them doing this is just hot air.
Comments
And here are some of those concepts.
As can be seen, feline-kind and cats specifically play no part in the concept, development, or final product.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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This hasn't stopped CBS from using the Kelvin Timeline name instead of the Kelvin Universe or Kelvin Reality name. By the logic of only what is seen in the movies and TV series is canon, the Kelvin Timeline is not canon. The Kelvin Universe and Kelvin Reality names are not contradictory to what is shown in the movies since there is no explanation about what the Kelvin Universe is in the movies. There is absolutely nothing in the new Star Trek movies that proves that a new timeline was created or that the Prime Universe is perfectly fine from Nero going back in time to kill Kirk's father. According to The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, and Children of Time, either the Prime Universe is perfectly fine and the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe or the Prime Universe is destroyed and the Kelvin Universe replaced the Prime Universe since changing the past destroys the original future. All we have is one of the creators of Star Trek 2009 claiming that a new timeline was created and the Prime Universe is perfectly fine. All there is in the movies is the following discussion:
KIRK: There won't be a next engagement. By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late. But you say he's from the future, knows what's going to happen, then the logical thing is to be unpredictable.
SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed. Mr. Sulu, plot a course to the Laurentian system warp factor three.
All that Spock and the rest of the Enterprise crew know is that a Romulan claiming to be from the future is attacking them. There is no evidence to support that Nero came from their future. Only that he came from a future similar to their own. The Kelvin Universe could have resulted in a future similar to the one that we know with a few slight variations like hairless Caitians, but Nero's interference destroyed the possibility of that future. So Spock and Nero could have traveled to another dimension that looks similar to the 23rd Century with absolutely no time travel involved. If that is the case and and 1 second in the Prime Universe equals 1 second in the Kelvin Universe, then 0718 is traveling back in time to interact with the 25th Century since Star Trek 2009 happens from 2387 to 2412 according to the Prime Universe's time and 2233 to 2258 according to the Kelvin Universe's time. 0718 first appears in Into Darkness which means he first makes an appearance in 2259 according to the Kelvin Universe and 2413 according to the STO universe.
I switched off reading most of that.
Bolded and reded the relevant part. The Kelvin Timeline is the focus of 09 and ID, two films, i.e. '...Star Trek continuity as presented Movie screens...'.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And they were some unnamed alien race until the co-producer and co-writer of Into Darkness opened up his big mouth and called them Caitians. If you define canon by what the creators of Star Trek say in interviews and other forms of communication not in the movies or TV series, then hairless Caitians are canon by Damon Lindelof because he is in a position of authority for Star Trek.
CBS defines canon.
@angrytarg did a whole thread on it, with references to who Paula Block is and why behind the scenes stuff is not canon.
So anything Lindelof says does not default to 'canon' just because he said it. Unless it's presented onscreen it remains a personal opinion you're all welcome to incorporate into your personal headcanons if you want.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Actually, the Kelvin class Starship and costumes as I pointed out earlier defies the notion. The Kelvin is much bigger than star ships from the TOS era, it has a unique single nacelle design that is not used anywhere at all in TOS and the uniforms do not match anything resembling that of Starfleet from TOS. That's certainly enough to throw askew the notion that only the Spock/Nero timeline was the deciding factor. Add to that, Klingon vessels and Klingons themselves do not resemble their TOS counterparts and going back to the augmentation virus that I had previously mentioned, this is a big discrepancy right there on film that establishes the Kelvin Universe as being different from the Prime.
Okay, then Caitians do not exist period and we simply have unnamed aliens in or out of the prime universe since they were never referenced in any way as thus on screen.
So where in the movies and TV series do they explain that a new timeline was created from the actions of Nero? Since there is no mention of a new timeline, then it is not canon. All the movie mentions is an alternate reality which can be an alternate timeline or parallel universe which are two completely different concepts.
And as I pointed out, that era has remain unseen until 09.
Slightly bigger. It's about 300m.
It predates TOS.
It predates TOS.
The Warbird has not appeared in the PR, the D4 BoP has not appeared in the PR, how can they be any different from those ships, especially as there is no evidence to suggest they are from a pre-Kelvin period in the first place.
And again, where was it ever implied in ENT that the virus effected EVERY Klingon?
So, again, no differences between the Pre-KT universe and the PU up to the attack on the Kelvin.
I haven't seen TAS for a while, but I'm sure M'Ress says the name of her home planet at one point, I remember somebody asking for the official pronunciation here in the past.
What? You're going to have to make that a bit more legible.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That's the D-5 class
Where in TOS was anything other than that implied?
Are you also allergic to long haired cats?
You have quoted the wrong person.
Thought I made myself perfectly clear, but I will rephrase it. Since Paula Block which is in charge of all licensed Star Trek products has stated that "canon is Star Trek continuity as represented on TV and Movie screens", then even CBS can't define what is canon outside of TV and Movie screens. CBS is claiming the Kelvin Universe to be the Kelvin Timeline, but there is absolutely no mention of timelines in Star Trek 2009 just an alternate reality as shown in my previous post that you didn't even bother reading. Therefore, CBS calling it the Kelvin Timeline is not canon.
A parallel universe would be what is shown in the Parallels episode in TNG. An infinite number of realities that have slight differences, but were created naturally. The Sliders series is another good example of this. Alternate timelines are the result of temporal manipulation. Old Biff steals Doc's Delorean and gives Grays Sport Almanac to his younger self and creates a dystopian 1980s timeline as a result. McCoy goes to the 20th Century and the Enterprise in the 23rd Century disappears. The Borg go to the 21st Century and 24th Century Earth is assimilated.
While I don't share the same fondness for the airlock express and have one Caitian bridge officer and a few Caitian duty officers, I will be getting a couple of twins on my ship and might make that as my new TOS Captain depending on what else is available.
No, I just don't like cats. They're too sneaky, I feel like I can't trust them. I can make an exception for those two though ...
Limited options for TOS toons. Not in best interest for players. Its like they design the game for themselves rather than its players.
They can/do make adjustments after the fact.
With a name like that, he better be impressive.
What do you expect from JJ Trek? The Gorn they had in mind to make at one point looked hideous.
Far too limiting a choice, and regardless of the (silly) reasons why, you're only a TOS character for 6 missions...
Which is why it doesn't make sense. If they are trying to attract new players to the game, then they would focus on adding the popular new races from the new Star Trek movies not limit it to 4 races from TOS. I could see Klingons getting an update so that we get the Kelvin Universe Klingons.
soo...you'll be deleting it after several months and all that work you pour into it? because some of the rewards are long-term ones
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I think you're onto something, but I believe that it's the other way around. I think that one of the devs was sooo adamant about what could be, what had to be TOS that their interpretation had to be the gospel by which this faction was made and nothing else. It's not for the benefit of the players that we don't have more alien races: there's certainly plenty of room to add other aliens thanks to TAS and Enterprise or what we know off screen about other races. It's for the benefit of the staff at Cryptic Studios.
Now, that doesn't mean that I hold anything against that or that it's a bad thing. We're Star Trek nerds. At some point, every Star Trek nerd gets this rage about something and yeah... In that sense, it's actually kind of refreshing to think that the devs really get that involved into the stories and the worlds that they are creating.
At first, I was bummed out as I said before. I wanted to make an elaborate backstory about an alien gen character I had already created blah blah blah. But now... I kinda like rolling fem characters every now and again and I've never rolled an Andorian before. Thanks to the Infinity Lockbox, I've been stocking up on some stuff exclusively for the this character and I've already bought some outfits off the exchange and what I've gotten on Risa. In a weird way, I feel like this limitation will actually be a blessing.
But just in case, I'm rolling a separate male character soon after in case I want to temporal recruit with that TRIBBLE instead.
Thats not a dis to people btw, saying people dont have lives, not what i mean. I just can pour as much time as id like and used to.
So my fugly human will be a permanent addtion to my sto family.
Be clear: NO ONE ON THESE BOARDS IS THE TARGET AUDIENCE.
They've laced it with other goodies to keep us amused, but the core objective here is new player acquisition and all decisions were made in that light. They are specifically positioning themselves to show up at Star Trek Las Vegas and do their little circus act for TOS fans who are not already STO fans... a category that for the most part DOES NOT include fans who know a goddamn thing about the series beyond what they saw on the small screen and who don't give a flying targ's severed buttocks about 14 other races that are canonically part of the Federation at that time. Not the point. Never was. Never will be.
Its a hunt for completely NEW players, and because profession and race are some of the only BINDING AND UNCHANGABLE decisions you make in the entire game, and at the mechanical level they're tied to a whole slew of traits and effects that are totally opaque and mysterious to a new fan you do not overload their decision making process. You don't ever want a new player second guessing themselves and wondering if they botched a critical decision only seconds into play. 4 races is actually a little on the high side - three choices in a blind, binding array is the industry norm for very deeply rooted reasons of human psychology and you can see that fact in how many classes we have in STO - THREE.
Humans and Vulcans were in. There was no third choice that would complete a logical set, but by adding both Andorians and Tellarites... Behold - the 4 founders of the Federation. Write a blog and ship it!
For Canonheads, the only Species commanding Federation Starships in TOS (not TAS) was Humans, and by plot dialog, Vulcans. Andorians and Tellerites were only Babel Representatives in TOS, but from Star Trek Enterprise we know they commanded their own ships. Had they been brought in to be part of the regular Fleet of vessels we are being given? Don't know, but Cryptic is assuming so and giving you that option.
Don't like the 'Founders of the Federation' Species because you can't live without tails or can't create a 7' Alien with some really over-sized head, well then you will have to miss out on a bunch of Missions and the Account perks that comes from being a Temporal Recruit.
All four Factions starting stories thrust us into a situation we were not prepared for. We make due with WHAT WE HAVE, overcome adversities, and grow into our career. Maybe we should learn from that lesson.
UESPA, anyone?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Uh huh, and all those other reasons for them doing this is just hot air.
Its about the money man.