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Star Trek Online Becoming Too Easy? Anyone Agree?

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    trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    You gotta remember folks that a lot of people are either not gamers or now casual gamers they like to play too so there is a fine line to walk between challenges and not frustrating those who may not be on the same difficulty scale as others. The human variable is one they can't do anything about and this is why some people may not feel the challenge.
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    ankokunekoankokuneko Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    I'd rather see some NPCs with unique fight mechanics and unique, NPC only abilities than triple health

    Its called PvP
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    semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    I don't want a Crit Chance / Severity Nerf because that would be the final killing blow to Science. You wanna do damage with Space magic you need 3 things.
    1.) Particle Manipulator
    2.) Tons of Particle Generators stat
    3.) Tons of Universal Consoles that boost Exotic Damage, Crit Severity, and Particle Generators

    Do I do stupid amounts of DPS because of these? YES! Does that make me a snobbish Elite? NO! Do I want nerfs for the sake of balance? Depends on if balance means: Cripple years of hard work and make the consoles and weapons I spent time/dilithium/Zen to aquire worthless then NO!

    It boggles my mind how soo many players simply ignore the fact that the uber DPS crowd and roughly anyone pushing 75k+ all managed that through excessive tweaking of their build, gathering the right consoles, slotting the right Boff powers, getting the proper traits and ship masteries, and learning how to pilot their ship to maximize skill rotation and weapon arcs. It's a lot of work that for some unfathomable reason the lower dps group wants to strip away and call it "Fair Play".
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    solidshark214solidshark214 Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    semalda226 wrote: »
    I don't want a Crit Chance / Severity Nerf because that would be the final killing blow to Science. You wanna do damage with Space magic you need 3 things.
    1.) Particle Manipulator
    2.) Tons of Particle Generators stat
    3.) Tons of Universal Consoles that boost Exotic Damage, Crit Severity, and Particle Generators

    Do I do stupid amounts of DPS because of these? YES! Does that make me a snobbish Elite? NO! Do I want nerfs for the sake of balance? Depends on if balance means: Cripple years of hard work and make the consoles and weapons I spent time/dilithium/Zen to aquire worthless then NO!

    It boggles my mind how soo many players simply ignore the fact that the uber DPS crowd and roughly anyone pushing 75k+ all managed that through excessive tweaking of their build, gathering the right consoles, slotting the right Boff powers, getting the proper traits and ship masteries, and learning how to pilot their ship to maximize skill rotation and weapon arcs. It's a lot of work that for some unfathomable reason the lower dps group wants to strip away and call it "Fair Play".

    This, especially the latter half (though I do, in fact, run on an alt a KSV that relies on Exotic, Crit, PartGen buffs). When I started this game three years ago, I was... kind of wimpy. Never played anything with so much build-tweaking, unless you count Armored Core (which I'm also not a genius at). These days I shred cubes and rarely blow up--because I've spent three years studying and experimenting to get this far.

    And you know what? It's been fun. I've enjoyed the process of climbing the DPS ladder through learning the ropes. I've earned the results I've gotten, and if some of it is through zen ships and high-priced gear, well, I've put in the time and effort to get the funds for it (ALL my zen is via dilithium, and after a few T6 ships that really adds up).

    So no. Can't say that I want all that effort nerfed into oblivion for the sake of people who AREN'T willing to learn. Getting competent is easy as working out that you shouldn't rainbow boat (unless you're an expert--which I'm not quite, either). Getting really good requires effort, and that's the why it should be.
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    sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    just to add a little thing, if the lvl60 wasn't a dead end, if we had things to do; the things would be different, because we will have a way to avoid those stfs. but there is nothing to do, no exploration, NOTHING. so, when I do a stf, I just want to enjoy it normally, without power creep. give me something else to do, and I would stop to be pissed off.
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    nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Add more hit points to enemies again. That worked out well.
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    goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    just to add a little thing, if the lvl60 wasn't a dead end, if we had things to do; the things would be different, because we will have a way to avoid those stfs. but there is nothing to do, no exploration, NOTHING. so, when I do a stf, I just want to enjoy it normally, without power creep. give me something else to do, and I would stop to be pissed off.

    All MMO's have this issue. Once you hit the top and have cycled through all the content...you start searching for things to do. There is no fix for this. Actually STO compared to many MMO's gives its high-level player base lots of options. There's Admiralty, Reputation, Crafting, Queue's, DOFF Missions and achievements, BOFF gear & skills, Titles, Fleet projects, etc. Not to forget that at 60, you should have quite a BOFF and DOFF crew that you can work on making better, never mind ground and space equipment to max out.
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Well according to that one player that I tried to help...that's min/maxing, munchkinism and all to complicated and he should not have to do that to play this game. So to some people, the idea of using damage tact consoles in tact console slots that match your weapon choic is too complicated...and other in this thread seems that we should actually have content that they can play while people who stack so much res debuff that the tankiest NPC have negative res while having themselves buffed into the stratosphere with every single worthwhile lockbox buffs not blow up that same content in seconds. Yeah...that's not asking too much from the devs right there...not one bit. Unreasonable people are unreasonable.

    No, it's not asking too much at all. The game has 3 difficulty settings. That should give players of all skill levels an appropriate level of challenge (and if 3 wasn't enough, they could always add more). But instead, the options are babymode, easy, and maybe-sorta-medium. With the last one not even available for the most popular multiplayer content.
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    taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    I just have a question for everyone, and this is important if we truly wish to address OP's topic.

    What % of the population is capable/should be capable of completing the following;
    Normal
    Advanced
    Elite


    My Answers are the following;
    Normal: 95 - 100%
    Advanced: 60 - 70%
    Elite: 25 - 30 %

    Looking at the game, and from anecdotal observational evidence, I think the game actually lines up pretty well with my answers.
    Or at the very least it's not far off.

    So on one hand, I know power creep is crazy out of control, but on the other... The game is meeting my difficulty expectations/requirements.
    So, is there actually a problem ?

    I dunno, but what I do know is that the Elite content is no "cake walk".
    And I do between 77 - 98k DPS.

    So are we all just over reacting ?


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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    I just have a question for everyone, and this is important if we truly wish to address OP's topic.

    What % of the population is capable/should be capable of completing the following;
    Normal
    Advanced
    Elite


    My Answers are the following;
    Normal: 95 - 100%
    Advanced: 60 - 70%
    Elite: 25 - 30 %

    Looking at the game, and from anecdotal observational evidence, I think the game actually lines up pretty well with my answers.
    Or at the very least it's not far off.

    So on one hand, I know power creep is crazy out of control, but on the other... The game is meeting my difficulty expectations/requirements.
    So, is there actually a problem ?

    I dunno, but what I do know is that the Elite content is no "cake walk".
    And I do between 77 - 98k DPS.

    So are we all just over reacting ?


    There's a difference between 'capable of completing' something, and practically being able to solo a mission though.

    While your numbers may accurately represent expectations of who should be able to complete what (and I do agree with the numbers to a certain extent), it doesn't say much about DPS ranges. For those ranges, we'd also need to determine the average needed DPS per person in an advanced vs an Elite mission. And, once those things have been determined, efforts should be made to ensure that going much higher shouldn't be possible or at least should be much less influential (for example, as many have suggested: by punishing insane DPS numbers through adding things like Feedback pulse).

    Then you'd have some concrete numbers to balance the game around. Your question is a necessary first step, but on its own it won't suffice imo.
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    sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    just to add a little thing, if the lvl60 wasn't a dead end, if we had things to do; the things would be different, because we will have a way to avoid those stfs. but there is nothing to do, no exploration, NOTHING. so, when I do a stf, I just want to enjoy it normally, without power creep. give me something else to do, and I would stop to be pissed off.

    All MMO's have this issue. Once you hit the top and have cycled through all the content...you start searching for things to do. There is no fix for this. Actually STO compared to many MMO's gives its high-level player base lots of options. There's Admiralty, Reputation, Crafting, Queue's, DOFF Missions and achievements, BOFF gear & skills, Titles, Fleet projects, etc. Not to forget that at 60, you should have quite a BOFF and DOFF crew that you can work on making better, never mind ground and space equipment to max out.

    everything is done; just because I had nothing else to do. I'm going to explain to you how I spend my time in STO.

    I launch the game (whatever the toon), I do the admiralty, I craft (woops wrong word - I play at the lottery), I do maybe 1 stf or 2, that's all. Doffs missions are not interesting, because I don't do the stuff myself. I have ceased to want excellent gears for my toons, after wasted too many time/ressources/patience for nothing. most of the time, i don't leave the game, but it is minimized, and I do something else, from time to time, I relaunch the lottery. During a moment, I was very excited to play at this game, I wanted the best gear for my toons and boffs, but the devs have removed the interesting part of this game, and they have willingly added a lot of things to increase the dps races (starship traits-sold with ships- etc), + too much stupid things (ground and space). Rules of Acquisition 459: the dps race is good for bussiness

    I was also very interested to collect some pets (khelid etc), but all the pets are in those f..... lock boxes, and when they are sold in the exchange, the prices are totally insane. I would prefer missions to be able to collect the pets. (like the one for the eppoh)

    If i don't leave this game, this is just because i'm lazy and I have spent already too much money. This game is done only for the dps race. If you want something else, you are screwed. But, like I said it, dpesers are a part of this game, and they deserve to have what they enjoy. But, the other players should have also something interesting to do, and not through boring systems (admiralty etc).
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    goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    ...everything is done; just because I had nothing else to do. I'm going to explain to you how I spend my time in STO...

    I can't speak to the things that you do when you lauch/play the game, but you did say something that I found interesting. You said, "Doffs missions are not interesting, because I don't do the stuff myself." I was going to say something about game realism in my first post, which I think is something that's missing in STO, but I thought it was off topic. I too would like to see some things added to the game. I'm copying and pasting from a prior thread. Stuff like below:

    I've always found that what's missing in many MMO's are the mechanics of dealing with the game world's logistics. Using STO as an example...what does it take to keep a starship up and running in good order? I was actually glad to see so many DOFF assignments that dealt with maintenance and repair, many of them adding bonuses if a random critical success is achieved. I was thinking it would be "game world realistic" if certain things were added. Just as an example...we're constantly "selling" garbage equipment, consoles, weapons, engines, shield systems, etc., for energy credits. The game term or button that you hit to start this process is called 'Recycle'. It would be nice if you had to actually do something besides click buttons to harvest those energy credits. Whether that be visit a space junkyard for decommissioned ships or haggle with a Ferengi merchant/trader or even negotiate with Orion privateers. To me that would add depth to the game. Maybe any one of those options might give more energy credits or less depending on a some kind of random factor just as the DOFF assignments have chances for various outcomes. To take this example even deeper...what if those various avenues were only available to you if you ran certain missions and made certain contacts? Wouldn't that be more "game world realistic" and provide a richer Star Trek Universe experience? Of course, there's always the Exchange if you think you have something that someone else might really want.

    I'm sure some players will respond that this would drive them nuts if they had to stop off at a given destination to do something like this, but I think it would add depth to the game. Perhaps make it optional by creating a toggle to turn it on/off. If it's off you can simply recycle junk items through the one-click button method already available. If it's on, then when the Recycle button gets clicked, you get a choice of speaking with a Ferengi merchant, Orion trader, Nausicaan pirate, or alien privateer. Each one may give you more or less for a particular type of item when you click. This could be random. There could also be certain "trading post" areas in sector space, for example, ship junkyards, seedy starbases, etc. that you could engage in recycling and also get random results from. The Ferengi might throw in a case of Romulan Ale with your energy credits because you have the item he's looking for. The Nausicaan might stiff you 100 EC and warp out with your merchandise in their cargo hold. The alien privateer might not be interested at all in any of the items you have...no sale.

    Things like this would help. But that's not to say that people wouldn't eventually get bored even of this. But things like this would add realism and depth. More so than a Recycle button or countdown timer for a selected DOFF assignment.
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    taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    I just have a question for everyone, and this is important if we truly wish to address OP's topic.

    What % of the population is capable/should be capable of completing the following;
    Normal
    Advanced
    Elite


    My Answers are the following;
    Normal: 95 - 100%
    Advanced: 60 - 70%
    Elite: 25 - 30 %

    Looking at the game, and from anecdotal observational evidence, I think the game actually lines up pretty well with my answers.
    Or at the very least it's not far off.

    So on one hand, I know power creep is crazy out of control, but on the other... The game is meeting my difficulty expectations/requirements.
    So, is there actually a problem ?

    I dunno, but what I do know is that the Elite content is no "cake walk".
    And I do between 77 - 98k DPS.

    So are we all just over reacting ?


    There's a difference between 'capable of completing' something, and practically being able to solo a mission though.

    While your numbers may accurately represent expectations of who should be able to complete what (and I do agree with the numbers to a certain extent), it doesn't say much about DPS ranges. For those ranges, we'd also need to determine the average needed DPS per person in an advanced vs an Elite mission. And, once those things have been determined, efforts should be made to ensure that going much higher shouldn't be possible or at least should be much less influential (for example, as many have suggested: by punishing insane DPS numbers through adding things like Feedback pulse).

    Then you'd have some concrete numbers to balance the game around. Your question is a necessary first step, but on its own it won't suffice imo.

    Yeah, that's something to consider as well, good point.

    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
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    vsilverwings1vsilverwings1 Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    Only browsed the thread and personally not given it much thought but the game is too easy I think but I think that needing players or buffing the enemy is the wrong way to go. For the longest time the game has been all about dps and it's got to the point where anyone can pump out high dps regardless of ship but at the same time can do their own buffs, debuffs and tank damage, there's very little if any need for teamwork other than focus fire or splitting up.

    Maybe I missed the times but how often have cruisers provided support above all else, science debuffs and escorts damage? Even when I actively played pve I can't recall the last time I required or was healed as an escort. The game in my opinion is grossly imbalanced and it would require a fundamental change in the game to give each class it's niche and require a team that requires all 3. There used to be times where zone chat would call out for a science for example for the old stfs...this just doesn't happen anymore. If they simply tweak the numbers it still largely comes down to bashing it hard enough.
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    nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Rather than adding hit points, it might be more interesting if Advanced instances gave all players a flat -10 to all 4 power levels, and Elite instances upped that to -25...
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    goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    So are we all just over reacting ?

    I think the problem is that we absolutely don't know what we get when we queue up...In other words: We need ways to determine what we get when we queue up.

    Uhmmmm....yup. As I said before in this thread, a team of 10 in CE Advanced might take down the entity in three minutes, but what no one is seeing is that three of those ten players are doing 60% - 70% of the damage.

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    taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    @coldnapalm that last comment was about as useful as your suggestions on PvP on another thread. So there's no need to be as 'passionate' about your own opinion. Regardless of how good you think it is.

    So...you're telling me that you think hard capping crit chance at like 10% and severity at 100% will be a GOOD idea then? [...]
    Snip-
    Not that your preferred solution of stopping things from stacking wouldn't be an excellent one, because it would "ne passant" produce more class balance. But the way you communicate it is outright compelling to reject it just because you write that way.

    It was a pretty interesting idea.
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    kostamojenxkostamojenx Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    The solution is simple...

    STO 2
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,367 Arc User
    I just have a question for everyone, and this is important if we truly wish to address OP's topic.

    What % of the population is capable/should be capable of completing the following;
    Normal
    Advanced
    Elite
    Well, if coldnapalm is to be believed, if you're not Elite, you shouldn't even be playing STO at all. (No idea how he plans on keeping the lights on when there are like thirty people playing, but there you go.)

    As for lvl 60 being a "dead end" - you know, there's a storyline to the game too. I usually hit 50 just before heading out to DS9; I tap 60 about halfway through the Iconian War. (And that's while skipping some missions - one of these days, my main will have to go back and complete the Borg storyline...) I still haven't done everything in Delta Quad, and now there's the temporal stuff rolling out - and soon, for us altaholics, TOS!
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    adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    I just have a question for everyone, and this is important if we truly wish to address OP's topic.

    What % of the population is capable/should be capable of completing the following;
    Normal
    Advanced
    Elite
    Well, if coldnapalm is to be believed, if you're not Elite, you shouldn't even be playing STO.

    By elite, if you mean know to use tact consoles that match their weapon of choice...then yeah i think you should be an 'elite' player to play this game. And don't worry about the future of this game...there are plenty of such 'elite' players out there to keep the lights on.

    I think that's a very low bar... Using tactical consoles that match one's chosen weapon type probably garners less benefit than just ramping up the weapon power. Heck, I know people who's ships I built for them who struggle in advanced content.
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    kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    warpangel wrote: »
    No, it's not asking too much at all. The game has 3 difficulty settings. That should give players of all skill levels an appropriate level of challenge (and if 3 wasn't enough, they could always add more). But instead, the options are babymode, easy, and maybe-sorta-medium.

    I suspect that perception ("babymode, easy,....") is only for the better players. If you're one of the people who show up parsing 3k DPS in an STF, I'd bet that you don't find Advanced to be "easy". /shrug

    (Well, or it could also be a difference in perception of "difficulty" - like, someone might consider a fight that takes 30 minutes of grinding to finally kill the badguy to be "easy" because it didn't have a high chance of them dying during that long slog. While another person might just consider the fact it took that long to be "hard". /ponder)


    And yeah, just having matching weapons & consoles at a high mark, and 100+ weapon power, isn't enough to plow through things at a high DPS. There's also stacking traits, and assigning space DOFFs with good abilities, and getting BOFFs with helpful passive traits, and doing things like keeping bridge abilities at 100% uptime, and ship positioning, and.... etc, etc.

    So yeah, someone can read the basic advice ("match your consoles. up your power"), and still not rock the queues. Because they have whatever BOFFs they happened to get while leveling; have either no space DOFFs or "TRIBBLE, I need another roster spot for my new recruit.... 'torpedos cool down faster' sounds kinda useful, I'll assign this green dude to Space" ; don't have any ability cooldown reductions & and therefore can't get 100% uptime even if they had the macros to manage it; and so on.
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