CBS and Paramount are starting to Scare me.

bjornfried

We all know that Axanar is the only Fan film project, that indeed is a piece of quality work, that actualy comes realy close to what Star Trek was and could be again (After they finaly end the terrible way, they are treating JJ Verse)

We also know that from the producer team to the actors, many people are involved that once where part of the Star rek producing teams.
For my "special friend" Azrael.
http://www.axanarproductions.com/category/cast/ That paramount and CBS are sueing them now, (with no good case at all, to back that up.) Is showing us that they fear that project for some reason.
Other Big companys are actualy treating Fanfilm projects as something so important, they giving out awards for that. ( Star Wars Lukasarts for example).

But now they threatend the second project in to submission. http://1701news.com/node/1151/cbs-reportedly-shuts-down-second-fan-film.html

http://trekmovie.com/2016/04/21/federation-falling-cbs-brings-a-halt-to-crowdfunding-of-the-star-trek-horizon-sequel-does-this-signal-the-end-of-fan-films/

If that goes on...
If they should win this, realy dirty lawsuit case...
What would that mean for, ST Continues, New Voyages, Renegades and ultimately STO?




Since CBS has the rigts for televison, but still acts as if some Fan project would take anything away from them. Is it possible, that they might even actualy start to make life didficult for our nice little game?

Because the foundry missons are using, Sceneries, Fictional Characters and sometimes even situation's, from the Star Trek Franchise. Which is the, only halfway's, founded base of CBS'S lawsuit.
No word about "fair use" from them.


I dont know.

mirrorchaos

bjornfried wrote: »

We all know that Axanar is the only Fan film project, that indeed is a piece of quality work, that actualy comes realy close to what Star Trek was and could be again (After they finaly end the terrible way, they are treating JJ Verse)

Quality? if their work was true quality they wouldnt tried to use CBS IP as their own.

bjornfried wrote: »

We also know that from the producer team to the actors, many people are involved that once where part of the Star rek producing teams.

Some of them joined, some left after this IP court case had been put on the media, some people would rather not be dealing with a shady operation.

bjornfried wrote: »

http://www.axanarproductions.com/category/cast/ That paramount and CBS are sueing them now, (with no good case at all, to back that up.) Is showing us that they fear that project for some reason.
Other Big companys are actualy treating Fanfilm projects as something so important, they giving out awards for that. ( Star Wars Lukasarts for example).

You dont know that or what CBS and Paramount has over Axanar. Hyperbole at best.

bjornfried wrote: »

But now they threatend the second project in to submission. http://1701news.com/node/1151/cbs-reportedly-shuts-down-second-fan-film.html

Again it depends what CBS has found.

bjornfried wrote: »

http://trekmovie.com/2016/04/21/federation-falling-cbs-brings-a-halt-to-crowdfunding-of-the-star-trek-horizon-sequel-does-this-signal-the-end-of-fan-films/

No it does not, a kneejerk reaction on one does not mean the rest will follow and considering how much attention this case is getting, i doubt any other fan made production is willing to follow axanar to the slaughterhouse.

bjornfried wrote: »

If that goes on...
If they should win this, realy dirty lawsuit case...
What would that mean for, ST Continues, New Voyages, Renegades and ultimately STO?

Dirty Lawsuit? What the hell are you going on about? Also dont over react and dont presume to know.

bjornfried wrote: »

Since CBS has the rigts for televison, but still acts as if some Fan project would take anything away from them. Is it possible, that they might even actualy start to make life didficult for our nice little game?

Because the foundry missons are using, Sceneries, Fictional Characters and sometimes even situation's, from the Star Trek Franchise. Which is the, only halfway's, founded base of CBS'S lawsuit.
No word about "fair use" from them.

I cant see why it should because of one rotten apple. Besides none of this has got anything to do with STO directly.

@jodarkrider i think this thread goes in ten forward.

alexraptorr

It means absolutely nothing for STO as this is a game that is officially sanctioned and backed by CBS.

It's a tragedy that one greedy little man like "Alec Peters" has ruined it all for the rest of Trek fandom.

mirrorchaos

alexraptorr wrote: »

It means absolutely nothing for STO as this is a game that is officially sanctioned and backed by CBS.

It's a tragedy that one greedy little man like "Alec Peters" has brought inevitable doom on fan productions.

doubtful. if the fan films are within the area CBS and Paramount are okay with then i can not see any reason why the rest should be punished for one arrogant little man.

davefenestrator

I disagree completely with the portrayal of Axanar as a fan film. It was a commercial project selling DVDs and merchandise without a proper license for the IP owned by CBS/Paramount. It deserved to be shut down.

nikeix

"No good case."? CBS is going to OBLITERATE them if it ever gets to court. This isn't a copyright fight. Its a trademark fight and if you don't defend your trademarks, you LOSE THEM. The TM violations are blatant. Axanar crested a threshold where CBS can't politely ignore than and that means for a while to come CBS is gonna have to put the boot down on everybody that doesn't contact them beforehand. Once they've finished stepping on that particular toad it'll probably be another 3-4 years of the more stringent standards being rigorously enforced before CBS/Paramount can go back to the more relaxed state they've allowed to flourish for decades.

Keep in mind they've managed a relatively cordial relationship with fan-creatives for most of the last 50 years. That is their native state. This behavior is out of character for them, and points to just how baddly the Axanar guys messed up/ticked them off. It took a particularly doochy bit of money-grubbing coat-tail riding to make the lawyers come out... but once they're deployed, you have to expect zero tolerance for a long while.

artan42

Oh no. A studio protecting their intellectual property from people who are trying to make money from somebody else's produce.

Truly a tragedy.

Of course the tragedy is that Peters has buggered up fan productions that weren't making profit. Horizon had its sequel shut down thanks to an idiot forcing CBS to stop turning a blind eye by illegally using the Star Trek brand to generate himself money.

bjornfried wrote: »

To what Star Trek was and could be again (After they finaly end the terrible way, they are treating JJ Verse)

Oh sod off with the random AU film hate. I'm sure Star Trek is itching to get back to the scripted masterpieces of VOY, ENT, and Nemesis.

Don't like them? Don't bleeding watch them. I don't like VOY but it's hardly a departure from what Trek 'is'.

bjornfried wrote: »

We also know that from the producer team to the actors, many people are involved that once where part of the Star rek producing teams.

And? Actors do not own the copyright for ST.

bjornfried wrote: »

If that goes on...
If they should win this, realy dirty lawsuit case...
What would that mean for, ST Continues, New Voyages, Renegades and ultimately STO?

You realise STO is officially licensed right? It's not a fan production. As for the others, they can lay low until the idiots day in court is over and CBS happily goes back to turning a blind eye.

bjornfried wrote: »

Since CBS has the rigts for televison, but still acts as if some Fan project would take anything away from them. Is it possible, that they might even actualy start to make life didficult for our nice little game?

Peters is taking something away from CBS. Copyrighted material used to generate cash for himself and not CBS. And CBS licensed STO.​​

rattler2

STO won't feel a thing as the game is licensed. Modders for other games might feel edgy, but should be alright as like 99.9% of mods out there are non profit and just for fun. Fanfiction writers and fan artists also shouldn't have a problem due to only being done for fun.

Its these larger fan film projects that will be looking over their shoulders as that takes money to make, especially if we're talking quality work. And in the case of Axanar... that one crossed the line when they started trying to make money off of it.

Unknown

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cavewark

the issue surounding axenar is when fan fiction crosses the line, its a fan production but with a high budget. And i think this is where CBS are upset but there have been other fan produced startrek "episodes/mini movies" that have had high quality production values hired profesional actors / actresses. CBS are probbaly upset because the fans have public said they dont like the JJ direction or at least a proportion of them whereas axenar has a lot of support from fans and i for one think it looks like an enjoyable story, but CBS dont want to produce a film that the fans want they want to produce a film that the whole world want. I think fan productions fill that gap. Some are terrible but some are truely epic.

rattler2

cavewark wrote: »

the issue surounding axenar is when fan fiction crosses the line, its a fan production but with a high budget. And i think this is where CBS are upset but there have been other fan produced startrek "episodes/mini movies" that have had high quality production values hired profesional actors / actresses. CBS are probbaly upset because the fans have public said they dont like the JJ direction or at least a proportion of them whereas axenar has a lot of support from fans and i for one think it looks like an enjoyable story, but CBS dont want to produce a film that the fans want they want to produce a film that the whole world want. I think fan productions fill that gap. Some are terrible but some are truely epic.

Axanar may have been popular, but the guy behind it was trying to make money off of it. THAT was the line that was crossed. Doesn't matter if the fans loved it. If you intrude on a copyright or trademark with the intent to make money out of it, the owner of said copyright or trademark is going to come down on you like a ton of bricks.

glenn

I am a fan of Star Trek Continues and Phase II. They are excellent TOS fan made episodes, high production values, great special effects etc.

On their web sites they explain that in order for CBS/Paramount to leave them alone they must make no money other than donations to make the shows. It is simple, don't try and make a profit and the lawyers will leave you alone.

anodynes

The "I stand with Axanar" crowd are going to have to stand for Axanar, since it has no leg to stand on for itself. CBS and Paramount have an excellent case and will almost certainly win if it gets to court. There is nothing "dirty" about suing someone for making a profit off of something that you own. Perhaps you also think that I should be able to rent out my neighbor's home and keep all of the money? Maybe I should make Dantooine tea and sell that? I'm sure Disney won't mind.

artan42

cavewark wrote: »

CBS are probbaly upset because the fans have public said they dont like the JJ direction

The box office results show that to be a ridiculous statement.​​

voyagerfan9751

glenn#1579 wrote: »

I am a fan of Star Trek Continues and Phase II. They are excellent TOS fan made episodes, high production values, great special effects etc.

On their web sites they explain that in order for CBS/Paramount to leave them alone they must make no money other than donations to make the shows. It is simple, don't try and make a profit and the lawyers will leave you alone.

And to that end, my understanding is they actually HAVE non-profit status. As in they are legally recognized as being "non-profit".

Really, people need to familiarize themselves with the Axanar case before they go crazy. Even forgiving some of the shadier elements of what Peters did. He went way beyond what a fan film normally does, and should have known it will attract the attention of CBS/Paramount. Could other films suffer. Probably, And the blame for that falls squarely on Peters. CBS is going to do what they have to to defend their IP. And in taking on Peters, that might mean getting more aggressive then they normally would.

That said, They are still playing it pretty nice with other fan films. Yes, they have effectively shut down Horizon. But they did it by basically telling the people involved that it would not be in their best interest to continue. Meaning they didn't even get the lawyers out for that one. To date, I have heard nothing outside of those projects.

As for STO, As others have said, There is literally no worry. STO is an officially licensed product. It has the full protection of the law, and to my knowledge, is safe up to 2018. Meaning even if CBS, doesn't like STO (which I have no idea why they wouldn't, since as a licensed product, CBS is getting a piece of the pie as it were) There is nothing they can do about it till then. They oked it already and the most they could do is not renew the agreement in 2018. Even then I want to reiterate there is NO reason to believe they won't.

cavewark

i didnt hear anywhere that axenar is making "profit" you have to pay people wages and they will not be able to "sell" the film for profit they will have to make it available as public domain. That was my understanding of "non profit" if i want to pay someone to make somthing as long as I dont make money from that then its non profit. but i suppose US law is different to UK.

artan42

cavewark wrote: »

i didnt hear anywhere that axenar is making "profit" you have to pay people wages and they will not be able to "sell" the film for profit they will have to make it available as public domain. That was my understanding of "non profit" if i want to pay someone to make somthing as long as I dont make money from that then its non profit. but i suppose US law is different to UK.

The funds were going towards building Ares Studios. Money made from CBS' ST IP was being used to build a studio to produce film to generate profit for Peters.​​

seansamurai1

Was it not something to do with the lead guy making money on someone else's work?
Because the funny bit about fan made stuff is, the crew don't get paid, the guest stars do but not the makers of it.
Horizons has had no issues and nor did renegades.

maina

artan42 wrote: »

cavewark wrote: »

i didnt hear anywhere that axenar is making "profit" you have to pay people wages and they will not be able to "sell" the film for profit they will have to make it available as public domain. That was my understanding of "non profit" if i want to pay someone to make somthing as long as I dont make money from that then its non profit. but i suppose US law is different to UK.

The funds were going towards building Ares Studios. Money made from CBS' ST IP was being used to build a studio to produce film to generate profit for Peters.​​

Then there is the Axanar "Coffee" that he sold the license to. Also if you read the articles in the links, there's the problem of a Star Trek Fan film, that makes a lot of money for host sites like Kickstarter, who has a policy on not allowing you to fund projects based off IP's you don't own (unless you make a lot of money for them, then they may let it slide...).

EDIT=I'm agreeing with artan42, just adding more.

sheldonlcooper

This is not really a legal issue. The owners of the IP can enforce their rights anytime they want. The making of money only causes it to be a slamdunk. They could shut down all of the other fanfilms at any time.

It is, however, a moral issue. I wonder the reaction if they went for Renegades and tried to prevent Walter Koenig from playing Chekov one last time (aside from STO!).

Usually I would be on the side of fanfilms and free use. I don't believe in copyright. If by some miracle I wrote something that people read and enjoyed it would not bother me at all to allow anyone to use it. However, many of these films and shows are really pushing it and I can see why CBS would want to stop them.

davefenestrator

Except that they DIDN'T go after Renegades. They went after the one paying salaries, selling DVDs and coffee, and building a for-profit studio to be used in other for-profit productions.

They left the real fan productions alone for 50 years.

talonxv

Anexar was just a bad move. Had they even gotten permission from CBS, CBS would of said "ok pay us royalties and have at it" since they were not going to have to do any heavy lifting.

But the guys from Anexar started selling stuff and CBS was like "Umm excuse me, you're making money of OUR stuff and you didn't even bother contacting us. NOPE!"

I mean this is the same deal as Rick James suing MC Hammer or Queen suing Vanilla Ice.

nyx219

Profit argument aside, the rabid-dog-with-a-bone attitude does have me wondering how long fanfic writers, visual artists and the like have before CBS and/or Paramount chase them down screaming about IP violations. It's not a musing to just brush off, a desire to slap hands away from IP certainly would have the potential to spiral out of control if enough apathy toward "violators" crops up.

Sure, sure, it's CBS' & Paramount's moves, and they do have a right to make them. But if done too often, and too widely, it's risking a death knell for the franchise. Sometimes the best strategies for longevity involve stepping back and not holding the reigns too tightly.

mirrorchaos

nyx219 wrote: »

Profit argument aside, the rabid-dog-with-a-bone attitude does have me wondering how long fanfic writers, visual artists and the like have before CBS and/or Paramount chase them down screaming about IP violations. It's not a musing to just brush off, a desire to slap hands away from IP certainly would have the potential to spiral out of control if enough apathy toward "violators" crops up.

Sure, sure, it's CBS' & Paramount's moves, and they do have a right to make them. But if done too often, and too widely, it's risking a death knell for the franchise. Sometimes the best strategies for longevity involve stepping back and not holding the reigns too tightly.

another overreaction not worth a mention beyond that point.

rattler2

nyx219 wrote: »

Profit argument aside, the rabid-dog-with-a-bone attitude does have me wondering how long fanfic writers, visual artists and the like have before CBS and/or Paramount chase them down screaming about IP violations.

Fanfic authors and artists are safe. We do it for fun, not to make money off of it. And typically we have a disclaimer in our works saying who owns what, be it in an Author's note or in the description of a piece of art.

nikeix

If you're wondering that, you're pretty much ignoring 50 years of history. CBS/Paramount have always been gracious to fan-creators to the extent the law allows them to be without losing their trademarks. They're not the badguys here. Really.

nyx219

mirrorchaos wrote: »

nyx219 wrote: »

Profit argument aside, the rabid-dog-with-a-bone attitude does have me wondering how long fanfic writers, visual artists and the like have before CBS and/or Paramount chase them down screaming about IP violations. It's not a musing to just brush off, a desire to slap hands away from IP certainly would have the potential to spiral out of control if enough apathy toward "violators" crops up.

Sure, sure, it's CBS' & Paramount's moves, and they do have a right to make them. But if done too often, and too widely, it's risking a death knell for the franchise. Sometimes the best strategies for longevity involve stepping back and not holding the reigns too tightly.

another overreaction not worth a mention beyond that point.

But, it's not an overreaction. Written works have been simply allowed to slide for the time being.

http://inyourwritemind.setonhill.edu/yes-fanworks-are-illegal-harsh-truths-about-copyright-fair-use/

Here are the icky truths that people don’t always want to hear, especially when it comes to fanworks:

Without permission directly granted from the original copyright owner, any creation of derivative works is illegal.
Copyright violators do not determine if their work falls under the protection of Fair Use; that decision is made through arbitration.
Fair Use is not a right. Fair Use is a defense argument used in legal proceedings, and is a circumstantial provision that does not guarantee protection for those who violate copyright law.
Attribution isn’t a protection from copyright violation, but you still need to do it anyway.
Including disclaimers with derivative works (“All rights belong to their prospective owners” / “These characters don’t belong to me” / “Work is protected under Fair Use”) is not a protection from copyright violation. If you’re going to bother including a disclaimer, you still need to properly attribute the author, copyright holder, and trademark owner.

I have many friends who write a wide variety of fanfics for pleasure, posted on various sites for said fic. They all know the above, and are acutely aware that all it takes is one person from XYZ franchise getting cruddy to flip the proverbial switch on writers & stop franchise-based fanfics. There's no overreacting, just acknowledging it's a wait & see legal chess game.

vengefuldjinn

You know, I saw a prelude to Axanar, It was fantastic. It was, but it doesn't belong to them.

If those guys, who are obviously talented, got together and hashed out another sci fi intellectual property, they could rival JJ Trek and we'd all be the better for it if you ask me.

I can't believe all of sci fi starts and ends with Star Trek.

Too bad imagination is so limited now a days, everything's a freakin reboot, or re imagining.

The next GREAT sci fi IP has gotta be a twinkle in SOMEONE'S mind's eye !

mirrorchaos

nyx219 wrote: »

mirrorchaos wrote: »

nyx219 wrote: »

Profit argument aside, the rabid-dog-with-a-bone attitude does have me wondering how long fanfic writers, visual artists and the like have before CBS and/or Paramount chase them down screaming about IP violations. It's not a musing to just brush off, a desire to slap hands away from IP certainly would have the potential to spiral out of control if enough apathy toward "violators" crops up.

Sure, sure, it's CBS' & Paramount's moves, and they do have a right to make them. But if done too often, and too widely, it's risking a death knell for the franchise. Sometimes the best strategies for longevity involve stepping back and not holding the reigns too tightly.

another overreaction not worth a mention beyond that point.

But, it's not an overreaction. Written works have been simply allowed to slide for the time being.

http://inyourwritemind.setonhill.edu/yes-fanworks-are-illegal-harsh-truths-about-copyright-fair-use/

Here are the icky truths that people don’t always want to hear, especially when it comes to fanworks:

Without permission directly granted from the original copyright owner, any creation of derivative works is illegal.
Copyright violators do not determine if their work falls under the protection of Fair Use; that decision is made through arbitration.
Fair Use is not a right. Fair Use is a defense argument used in legal proceedings, and is a circumstantial provision that does not guarantee protection for those who violate copyright law.
Attribution isn’t a protection from copyright violation, but you still need to do it anyway.
Including disclaimers with derivative works (“All rights belong to their prospective owners” / “These characters don’t belong to me” / “Work is protected under Fair Use”) is not a protection from copyright violation. If you’re going to bother including a disclaimer, you still need to properly attribute the author, copyright holder, and trademark owner.

I have many friends who write a wide variety of fanfics for pleasure, posted on various sites for said fic. They all know the above, and are acutely aware that all it takes is one person from XYZ franchise getting cruddy to flip the proverbial switch on writers & stop franchise-based fanfics. There's no overreacting, just acknowledging it's a wait & see legal chess game.

why would everyone else be shafted because of Alec Peters and his designs on Axanar?
You seriously think that CBS would shoot down every other fan made production because of one incident?

overreaction is what it is.

rattler2

mirrorchaos wrote: »

overreaction is what it is.

I have to agree. Why would CBS go after fanfiction writers who aren't doing anything? No point. They'll go after things like Axanar that are trying to make money off of their IP.

jodarkrider

Because the Foundry missons are using, Sceneries, Fictional Characters and sometimes even situation's, from the Star Trek Franchise. Which is the, only halfway's, founded base of CBS'S lawsuit.
No word about "fair use" from them.

OP, this is a specific discussion - pertaining to the Foundry. I moved it here for this reason.
/Moved