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Serously upset about new skill system. Seriosuly, make a dam poll before changing the core of STO!

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  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    bjornfried wrote: »
    Im happy.

    I'm NOT...and see the other threads if you are really a SCI player is a SLAP in the face. ENJOY dino1-1.gif​​

    I dont understand the issue you are having..I run an exotic damage build and short of 2 abilities (Tykens epg dmg, and DRB by about 300 dmg per tic) everything else is HIGHER than it was.

    Ive tested my speed build for my wells, and when specd (in tribble) like I was on Holo..I get about that same top end (around 160 impulse) with only a marginal reduction in damage resistance for Haz and Aux to Dam (those are made up literally in my higher damage rez with 1 point in armor)
    Why do you need high impulse speeds? If the ywould let use use full impulse in red alert (Like in that Sci fi show called "Star Trek") You would not even think about wasting skillpoints for faster engines.
    bjornfried wrote: »
    Sci exotic build here and the new system shows a big improvement, in damage and survivability

    Where? Where? Where? It does simply not! Ist weaker. You pop all the time! And you cant duplicate your old skill tree.
    That is a lie.
    You dont even have the recuirerd skilltree now.

    Ehm, you do know that your defence increases if you're flying at higher speed, right? Perhaps that 's why you 'pop all the time' ;)
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    I've found that my first attempt at respec with the new skill tree resulted in a more pure career path. I haven't used the free respec yet, but I was happy with the initial outcome. I may go back in tonight and see if there's a tweak or two that might make things better. One thing I noticed by just running Crystalline Catastrophe Advanced...I could sit right on top of the Crystalline Entity when it discharged and still not get blown to smithereens. And that having been said, after the respec, my shield and hull strength was less than it had been with the old system. Also, seems to me as if range and accuracy play a much bigger part now. Should be interesting.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • jelly0jelly0 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
    One thing that really ****** me off is the fact that this seems like a grab for zen considering they put reskill tokens down by 40%.

    Complete new design on skill tree the reskill should have been unlimited free use for 1 week period after update.
  • jelly0jelly0 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
    bjornfried wrote: »
    draxonfly wrote: »
    I don't like it... it feels 'dumber'...

    Finaly a voice of reason! Maybe players got dumper with each generation too?
    I see unfoundet hype all over the place. Nope. Science toons where allready good.
    I have a couple and all worked fine before.

    This is one of the reasons I stopped playing WoW, every single expansion they dumbed the game down more and more and with every expansion was a complete redesign of the skills and abilities. I got so sick of it I stopped playing, I think I may just only come on to STO when Ship / Dil events are on from now on.
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    People having problems please check that their traits are still slotted. Respecing removes all your space and starship traits for some bizarre reason. But seriously sci got a buff overall, I'm doing more damage and can shield tank better.
  • jelly0jelly0 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
    What have people gone with in the tree for Tac / Engi and Sci.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    bjornfried wrote: »
    Sci exotic build here and the new system shows a big improvement, in damage and survivability

    Where? Where? Where? It does simply not! Ist weaker. You pop all the time! And you cant duplicate your old skill tree.
    That is a lie.
    You dont even have the recuirerd skilltree now.

    Then obviously you are doing something very wrong.
    I have had no problem whatsoever replicating and even improving on three entirely different types of builds that are nothing alike, and they all perform better than before.
    Shields especially are stronger than ever, provided you properly spec for them.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    chipg7 wrote: »
    As Trendy said when closing one of the complaint threads, the Devs did a lot of public discussion on this. I didn't test on Tribble, but I felt pretty confident in the system just going off of reading the news posts and the livestream. So whether it's Tribble or other means, there's more than enough to go on to learn the new system.

    I disagree and this is from someone who spent a few weeks on Tribble testing the system which resulted in me already having optimised build for holodeck.

  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    bjornfried wrote: »
    Im happy.

    I'm NOT...and see the other threads if you are really a SCI player is a SLAP in the face. ENJOY dino1-1.gif​​

    I dont understand the issue you are having..I run an exotic damage build and short of 2 abilities (Tykens epg dmg, and DRB by about 300 dmg per tic) everything else is HIGHER than it was.

    Ive tested my speed build for my wells, and when specd (in tribble) like I was on Holo..I get about that same top end (around 160 impulse) with only a marginal reduction in damage resistance for Haz and Aux to Dam (those are made up literally in my higher damage rez with 1 point in armor)
    Why do you need high impulse speeds? If the ywould let use use full impulse in red alert (Like in that Sci fi show called "Star Trek") You would not even think about wasting skillpoints for faster engines.

    My speed build is for PVP and in PVE it helps with subwarp sheaths 15% armor pen ....Gotta catch those zippy escorts! :D

    The_Science_Channel_Signature_Gen_2_-_Jacobs_xSmall.png


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    People having problems please check that their traits are still slotted. Respecing removes all your space and starship traits for some bizarre reason. But seriously sci got a buff overall, I'm doing more damage and can shield tank better.

    I know it did this in tribble {removing of all traits)..But it didn't do that for me in Holodeck..hrmm..Glad to hear overal you got a sci buff :D

    The_Science_Channel_Signature_Gen_2_-_Jacobs_xSmall.png


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • starmanjstarmanj Member Posts: 718 Arc User
    I am really disappointed About Space 46 max and Ground 10 max you would had thought by now especially Since LVL Cap went from 50 to 60 you would be able to obtain more skills. This was a mess trying to get all my 9 toons fixed for nothing. What was the point of having a tree Skill system when you can't climb up the tree only to be stuck in the middle forever. Please think about letting us obtain more Skill points in this game, 6 years of the same has been to long in this Skill area.
  • jtoon74jtoon74 Member Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    In all honesty when people complain about things and we are told the devs lack resources, why waste money on revamping the skill system?, it seems rather pointless. Its not like that will bring in any new players or any old players back for any real length of time.
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    People having problems please check that their traits are still slotted. Respecing removes all your space and starship traits for some bizarre reason. But seriously sci got a buff overall, I'm doing more damage and can shield tank better.

    I know it did this in tribble {removing of all traits)..But it didn't do that for me in Holodeck..hrmm..Glad to hear overal you got a sci buff :D

    I didn't use the skill respec because I knew exactly what build I wanted using Tribble, but someone in zone chat said this happened in Holodeck, so I presumed it came over from Tribble. Only problem I have is the overflow bug. For some reason I have a Dauntless ship in my overflow bag and I can't remove it, this is stopping me and others from opening reward boxes. My inventory is totally full because of this.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    starmanj wrote: »
    I am really disappointed About Space 46 max and Ground 10 max you would had thought by now especially Since LVL Cap went from 50 to 60 you would be able to obtain more skills. This was a mess trying to get all my 9 toons fixed for nothing. What was the point of having a tree Skill system when you can't climb up the tree only to be stuck in the middle forever. Please think about letting us obtain more Skill points in this game, 6 years of the same has been to long in this Skill area.

    From what I 've seen so far, players are already much more powerful than 2 days ago. Allowing us to choose more skills would not be wise.

    The current system is fine. There's enough choices to make things work, we really don't need to have what little restrictions we have, removed. Just PUG an ISA and you'll see what I mean. Things are being vaporised even faster than before. That may simply be because the most fanatic players jumped in the game immediately after the patch. But you already get more skills than before anyway, and there's brand new ones that allow us to use Boff abilities more often. You really don't want everyone to be able to select all those skills. Might as well give us an 'I win'-button right away.
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    Science captain here - I didn't lose much. Power levels seem to be on the low side and that bothers me a bit, but I have to see how it actually affects me in combat. The actual damage made by exotic abilities and my torps also remains to be seen after the patch, but on the first glance they look ok (besides Tyken's Rift, I still think its damage needs a boost). Also, I probably lost a bit on the survivability side, but that's only because I chose to put more points into damage related skills and I hope see a damage increase, too.

    All in all - although I was very sceptical at the beginning, the skilltree itself looks fine and it's easier to understand what every point actually gives you.
    Forcing players into one skilltree and locking out the experimentation with the paywall, also not being able to choose skills before actually locking them in place are bothering me. But those are implementation problems, rather than problems with the skills themselves, and should be possible to add - hopefully it's what they do in the near future.
  • neos472neos472 Member Posts: 580 Arc User

    ask the SCI players if they are happy now tiger-36.gif​​
    sci captain here as well and i love it :D

    manipulator of time and long time space traveler
  • oblomofoblomof Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    I do not care much about the skill system because the effects are all so tiny.
    But as a defensive player who is only playing Sci and Engi characters I'm now using the exact same skill build for my Sci and Engi. There is no need for me and also no significant possibility to make different builds.
  • artanisenartanisen Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    One of the things i hate about the skill tree lol
    after a few hours of looking at the skill tree
    trying to get to the ultimate. But i gave up and
    went my own way. I just can't sacrifice 40% of my
    skill tree for the ultimate. i will probably be the only
    one that doesn't care about that ultmate ability.
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    artanisen wrote: »
    One of the things i hate about the skill tree lol
    after a few hours of looking at the skill tree
    trying to get to the ultimate. But i gave up and
    went my own way. I just can't sacrifice 40% of my
    skill tree for the ultimate. i will probably be the only
    one that doesn't care about that ultmate ability.

    Generally, ultimates are not worth it.
  • jtoon74jtoon74 Member Posts: 409 Arc User
    artanisen wrote: »
    One of the things i hate about the skill tree lol
    after a few hours of looking at the skill tree
    trying to get to the ultimate. But i gave up and
    went my own way. I just can't sacrifice 40% of my
    skill tree for the ultimate. i will probably be the only
    one that doesn't care about that ultmate ability.

    I'm with you on this one.

  • dderidexwarbirddderidexwarbird Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    The Skill System in this game is simply another way to milk whales as much as possible. Otherwise they would have made respecs free considering the other things you need to pay for in the game to be half-way competetive. I have not commented on the forums for a good few years because I wanted to see how Star Trek: Online developed as a game.

    However, it simply hasn't. It has completely wasted its potential because the Devs are content with pushing out the bare minimum of content possible. Take Delta Rising and compare it to Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward or World of Warcraft: Warlords of Dreanor and there is just no comparison.

    Now before anyone starts with the rage, remember, I know that the dev team of this game is fairly small however I have seen community mods like Star Trek: Armada III for Sins of a Solar Empire and Star Trek: Armada II Fleet Operations push out TWICE as much content with much smaller development teams.

    What matters to me is passion for Star Trek, which the Devs just do not seem to have. Their stories are lackluster at best, simply drawing on aspects from the shows randomly as if a Dev sat down and watched "Year of Hell" a week before the release of all the Krenim stuff and somebody obviously sat down and watched "Storm Front". Where is the original content, where is the depth to this game.

    Its been over five years and I have still been waiting for some real depth, its like the Devs don't care anymore. They know people will give them money regardless of what they do. Nobody at Cryptic is doing quality control. Things are being released and pushed to live with bugs, glitches and who knows what else, like they never play test things beforehand. I have seen better missions in the foundry then what the devs can actually produce.

    Also, I have a full level character (never been interested in alts, never seen the point of them) but once you have done all the repetitive grind for the reputation, I find myself, logging in, doing the next mission for 15 minutes, checking out the new skill system, doing a Nak'hul grindfest and then logging out after just an hour. An entire 6 months worth of content since the last one and I can do it all in one hour.

    The devs are not even interested in sustainable things that may keep people in the game, like PvP, sustainable gameplay that can keep players occupied for hours. Nobody in my fleet bothers to log in anymore because Cryptic are just too lazy and its sad that they have been allowed to become so complacent.

    This game used to have so much promise, I stayed through the bad times but now it seems they've done to this what they did to Sonic the Hedgehog and people are just playing this out of some sense of obligation, because its the only real Star Trek content avaliable these days. But as an MMO and compared to other F2P MMO's that have become popular, this one pales in comaprison.

    Sorry...
    Original Author of the "What's the Beef with the Galaxy, Cryptic?" Forum Post

    Change can happen - Tier 6 Galaxy... Believe in yourself...

    https://taskforcerepublic.tumblr.com/ - Task Force: Republic, Second Life Roleplay Community
  • viguriviguri Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    I must say i love the new skill changes. Much easier to understand. As a science officer this has definately improved my quality of gameplay, myriad of options on builds and allowed me to extend into some skills that help the team more. I noticed a significant uptick in gravity related skills and my pets live more.

    On my tactical character I am still working on it but overall I like the flow, ease of use, ease of understanding that was made. Some of the final adjustments to the trees (clarifying tooltips, changes to certain skills) resolved any outstanding issues I had with the system.

    That isn't to say I wouldn't want other improvements to the system (Required to choose a projectile related skill when I don't use them at all as a free unlock) but I love the changes and thank the dev team for the work.

    It is an improvement. I took me 2-3 hours of reading each skill to best understand where it would be useful and another few hours of tweaking it on Tribble but thats only because I am not newly leveling up in it.

    AWESOME JOB. To the OP I have no idea why the immediate hate but I don't see an issue and am counted as one of the happy with players
  • sovereign010sovereign010 Member Posts: 641 Arc User
    The Skill System in this game is simply another way to milk whales as much as possible. Otherwise they would have made respecs free considering the other things you need to pay for in the game to be half-way competetive. I have not commented on the forums for a good few years because I wanted to see how Star Trek: Online developed as a game.

    However, it simply hasn't. It has completely wasted its potential because the Devs are content with pushing out the bare minimum of content possible. Take Delta Rising and compare it to Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward or World of Warcraft: Warlords of Dreanor and there is just no comparison.

    Now before anyone starts with the rage, remember, I know that the dev team of this game is fairly small however I have seen community mods like Star Trek: Armada III for Sins of a Solar Empire and Star Trek: Armada II Fleet Operations push out TWICE as much content with much smaller development teams.

    What matters to me is passion for Star Trek, which the Devs just do not seem to have. Their stories are lackluster at best, simply drawing on aspects from the shows randomly as if a Dev sat down and watched "Year of Hell" a week before the release of all the Krenim stuff and somebody obviously sat down and watched "Storm Front". Where is the original content, where is the depth to this game.

    Its been over five years and I have still been waiting for some real depth, its like the Devs don't care anymore. They know people will give them money regardless of what they do. Nobody at Cryptic is doing quality control. Things are being released and pushed to live with bugs, glitches and who knows what else, like they never play test things beforehand. I have seen better missions in the foundry then what the devs can actually produce.

    Also, I have a full level character (never been interested in alts, never seen the point of them) but once you have done all the repetitive grind for the reputation, I find myself, logging in, doing the next mission for 15 minutes, checking out the new skill system, doing a Nak'hul grindfest and then logging out after just an hour. An entire 6 months worth of content since the last one and I can do it all in one hour.

    The devs are not even interested in sustainable things that may keep people in the game, like PvP, sustainable gameplay that can keep players occupied for hours. Nobody in my fleet bothers to log in anymore because Cryptic are just too lazy and its sad that they have been allowed to become so complacent.

    This game used to have so much promise, I stayed through the bad times but now it seems they've done to this what they did to Sonic the Hedgehog and people are just playing this out of some sense of obligation, because its the only real Star Trek content avaliable these days. But as an MMO and compared to other F2P MMO's that have become popular, this one pales in comaprison.

    Sorry...

    I did get a similar feeling about DR, that someone had simply watched "Dragon's Teeth","Ashes to Ashes", and "Vis à Vis", even though in the latter case it was never stated whether Steth or Dalen were actual Benthans.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Ultimate abilities seem nice, but I don't think you should focus on getting these. It's nice if you can get them with a build you'd been using anyway, but forcing yourself into a certain build, thereby accepting a lot less flexibility, doesn't seem wise to me.

    I'd only use them if it means spending one or two points extra in a certain career compared to what I would have spent in that career anyway. If it requires more than that, I'm sacrificing too many things that could improve my performance or survivability for 100% of the time and I don't think that's worth it for an ability that is only active less than one third of the time.
  • neos472neos472 Member Posts: 580 Arc User
    artanisen wrote: »
    One of the things i hate about the skill tree lol
    after a few hours of looking at the skill tree
    trying to get to the ultimate. But i gave up and
    went my own way. I just can't sacrifice 40% of my
    skill tree for the ultimate. i will probably be the only
    one that doesn't care about that ultmate ability.

    you most likely won't while indeed shiny it sometimes is best not to invest heavily into a profession but rather go a more balanced approach. my ENG is following that principal
    manipulator of time and long time space traveler
  • dderidexwarbirddderidexwarbird Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    > @sovereign010 said:
    > dderidexwarbird wrote: »
    >
    > The Skill System in this game is simply another way to milk whales as much as possible. Otherwise they would have made respecs free considering the other things you need to pay for in the game to be half-way competetive. I have not commented on the forums for a good few years because I wanted to see how Star Trek: Online developed as a game.
    >
    > However, it simply hasn't. It has completely wasted its potential because the Devs are content with pushing out the bare minimum of content possible. Take Delta Rising and compare it to Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward or World of Warcraft: Warlords of Dreanor and there is just no comparison.
    >
    > Now before anyone starts with the rage, remember, I know that the dev team of this game is fairly small however I have seen community mods like Star Trek: Armada III for Sins of a Solar Empire and Star Trek: Armada II Fleet Operations push out TWICE as much content with much smaller development teams.
    >
    > What matters to me is passion for Star Trek, which the Devs just do not seem to have. Their stories are lackluster at best, simply drawing on aspects from the shows randomly as if a Dev sat down and watched "Year of Hell" a week before the release of all the Krenim stuff and somebody obviously sat down and watched "Storm Front". Where is the original content, where is the depth to this game.
    >
    > Its been over five years and I have still been waiting for some real depth, its like the Devs don't care anymore. They know people will give them money regardless of what they do. Nobody at Cryptic is doing quality control. Things are being released and pushed to live with bugs, glitches and who knows what else, like they never play test things beforehand. I have seen better missions in the foundry then what the devs can actually produce.
    >
    > Also, I have a full level character (never been interested in alts, never seen the point of them) but once you have done all the repetitive grind for the reputation, I find myself, logging in, doing the next mission for 15 minutes, checking out the new skill system, doing a Nak'hul grindfest and then logging out after just an hour. An entire 6 months worth of content since the last one and I can do it all in one hour.
    >
    > The devs are not even interested in sustainable things that may keep people in the game, like PvP, sustainable gameplay that can keep players occupied for hours. Nobody in my fleet bothers to log in anymore because Cryptic are just too lazy and its sad that they have been allowed to become so complacent.
    >
    > This game used to have so much promise, I stayed through the bad times but now it seems they've done to this what they did to Sonic the Hedgehog and people are just playing this out of some sense of obligation, because its the only real Star Trek content avaliable these days. But as an MMO and compared to other F2P MMO's that have become popular, this one pales in comaprison.
    >
    > Sorry...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I did get a similar feeling about DR, that someone had simply watched "Dragon's Teeth","Ashes to Ashes", and "Vis à Vis", even though in the latter case it was never stated whether Steth or Dalen were actual Benthans.


    That is what I mean, I wish that devs actually cared about this game enough to make decent content for it. Legacy of Romulus was good because it took a lesser known alien from Enterprise and built a race around that. Although it did seem to me that the storyline for Legacy of Romulus was somewhat similar to Mass Effect 2, with aliens stealing people from colonies to experiment on them in their base concealed in a usually inaccessible area of space. (Just as much as Star Trek: Nemesis being a rip off of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan).

    It just seems to me like Cryptic are not able to come up with original storylines. I run a roleplay starship in Second Life and every week I have to come up with a new and interesting story and yes, sometimes it is really hard but it just seems to me that this game is all style and pretty things, like ships and no actual meat or substance, like a good story or complicated missions with many different moral standpoints, things that really made Star Trek stand out as a series.

    Its just fight after fight after fight with different alien of the week. I had 0 interest in the Nak'hul and it seems to me that Cryptic are probably running out of ideas for storylines after the Iconian War. We have a saying in the RP circle in Second Life;

    "Time Travel is the last plot area of the desperate" - Meaning that stories about time travel normally have massive holes in them. I do not like the idea of ships from future appearing, casually violating the temporal prime directive and then taking YOU to the 29th Century which we saw what happened, when Daniels did that to Archer in "Shockwave" (Part 2). Don't take people out of history.
    Original Author of the "What's the Beef with the Galaxy, Cryptic?" Forum Post

    Change can happen - Tier 6 Galaxy... Believe in yourself...

    https://taskforcerepublic.tumblr.com/ - Task Force: Republic, Second Life Roleplay Community
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    You know that isn't something easily done. In game comments and forums threads spanning six years can't easily be found if at all. The fact is we had one if the worst skill systems in the business and everyone knew in needed to be changed. What we got was a vast improvement even if it isn't exactly what some people wanted.
  • rotorblade573rotorblade573 Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    A horrible development job on the new Skill Tree. Difficult to use and understand. It certainly works for Nobs who sit at Starbase all day writing forum posts but not most players. Time & money should have went in to improving the previous Skill Tree.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    The Ultimates are in my opinion perfect for people with a lot of alts. You can deliberately spec some of them for an Ultimate but keep others with the "safer" choice.

    They exist primarily to encourage people to try something off the beaten path. You can most likely replicate your previous build in the old skill system, but maybe you find a reason not to do that. Ultimates can be one of those reasons.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jelly0jelly0 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Forcing players into one skilltree and locking out the experimentation with the paywall, also not being able to choose skills before actually locking them in place are bothering me. But those are implementation problems, rather than problems with the skills themselves, and should be possible to add - hopefully it's what they do in the near future.

    Borticus essentially said adding a "save all" function for skills is more work than it's worth, so they won't be doing it.

    Biggest copout answer I have seen in a while, like the system revamp wasn't a lot of work already.

    Just an excuse to try and get some more $$ with all the reskill tokens otherwise they would do free unlimited reskills for at least a week whilst people try and figure things out but instead.
This discussion has been closed.