Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
There's also the slight problem of getting hit with a spike damage of 100K+, a 50K hull escort won't cope with that nor will a lot of cruisers. For new players you either play a sci ship or a pilot ship to win because with the exception of the experienced few who fly normal escorts or cruisers, you won't survive long.
It's not even so much the hits. Hard hits have been around for awhile. I mean they are but the biggest thing is all the [Pen], shield bleed-through, and debuffs.
My T6 Oddy was (or any cruiser) with 90,000 hull, 15,000 shields, and 50% resist could easily take a 100k-150k hit.
But now in one second your debuffed, your 50% resists are now like 19% or even 0%. The added [Pen] then gets added as bonus damage I believe, add in shield bleed-through a few science skills for subsystems drain debuffs and it's basically a Wild West showdown at dawn where the person who draws first wins
Oh well...
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
This is a PVE game. If you want PVP you can get it here(if your lucky to get a match), but play at your own risk, it's beyond a joke. Game balance is...well...what @lucho80 said.
If you want PVP, you'll need to play another game. The design of the game is based around PVE only, or at least 95% of it.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
See that's the thing Zombie tanks were the worse in 1 vs 1 but in a team zombie tank had a role to simply stay alive and heal the alpha strikers.
Most of the time the zombie healer got left a lone cause it was near impossible to take him down.
Now...debuff the heck out of the healer tank, decloak, take him out. Finish off the others as fast as you can. Done.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
I knew the hard-counter game was toast when DR came out. The nail in the coffin was the neutering of FBP effectiveness. It used to be that polhull and Delta would be a counter to FBP, but the target would still get his knuckles wrapped for trying to Vape a FBP build. Now you got, temporal immunity/Zhal trait/emergency pilot manuevers/Rock n Roll completely neutering what FBP once was. Its almost completely useless these days.
I guess all those crying Vapers finally got their way with FBP. So much for a thorns/reflect build. Sad really, I miss the old days a lot.
I knew the hard-counter game was toast when DR came out.
The nail in the coffin was the neutering of FBP effectiveness.
It used to be that polhull and Delta would be a counter to FBP, but the target would still get his knuckles wrapped for trying to Vape a FBP build.
Now you got, temporal immunity/Zhal trait/emergency pilot manuevers/Rock n Roll completely neutering what FBP once was.
Its almost completely useless these days.
I guess all those crying Vapers finally got their way with FBP.
So much for a thorns/reflect build. Sad really, I miss the old days a lot.
Maybe if they added to FBP "Ignores immunity" as well as is 50% shield pen..
Not necessary Odin. It was pretty well balanced before. A poor pilot who ignored defense would get fried by fbp, while a good pilot would avoid firing or set up their Def buffs before firing and survive. Was pretty awesome. Now, its kinda dumb to even load a copy. Unless you're playing against noobs.
My issue is more with traits and lockbox abilities muddying the waters. I especially don't like being cornered into buying certain ships for certain traits just to pvp competitively. Remember how crazy viral Torp was when it was released ? It was awful playing against someone who was using it. You could shut someone down for like 10-15 secs at a time and blown them to bits with neut spread and ionic/Intel debuffs LOL. And next thing you know every two bit pvper was buying themselves a benthan lol Just awful, and it all happened over night. Even still we're being slammed with new traits and abilities every month. Its too much for me.
I actually just wish they'd add a "No Trait" mode, or a mode with premade ships to choose from. I might try it out again if they ever did that.
Or what if everything had diminishing returns not just defense abilities?
So the more and more Tac and DPS you put the least beneficial it would be. I mean the highest resist is 75%. Resists is basically king in PvP to survive. A 50,000 hull hit with 50% resist hits at only 25,000...that's huge. Getting to 50%-75% resist is not easy the way the system works. Then here comes a skill and debuffs your resists -39 to all resists wtf?!
I just had to use 3 skill points and two console slots (plus traits) for my 53% resist and all they need is basically one attack pattern?!
There's no real caps on damage, none. Mmm...balanced? Not a chance.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
My healer has to have base resists in the 60% range, and I'm not really comfortable unless they're at 65%-69% base. 5 neutroniums, multiple traits (active hull hardening, advanced hull reinforcement, etc), multiple boff abilities (Aux2SIF, Hazard Emitters, etc), other consoles (Bounty Hunters Friend, etc) and I still see my damage resistance bouncing between 70%, 45%, 20%, and sometimes even in the negatives while under heavy fire in a PVP match. All that investment in damage resistance and it can be debuffed away so easily.
There are some abilities that allow you to get over 75% damage resistance, but there are not many of them, and they don't last long.
FBP is still the most powerful ability in PvP! I alphastriked The evul jukub and got hit with a 300k FBP thanks to his wells voodoo build! Before DR PvPers would struggle to get past a 30k BO spike, you'd need hy3 and quantums to successfully alpha a cruiser (if he was asleep with his speakers off and in another room). Now though I've been hit with 100K! The few times I've managed to dodge it and I fire back all I see coming off the other person is the word immunity.
Kevase a lot of the maps were designed for PvP first, the Voth groundzone was going to be a PvP territory control arena before the Devs got cold feet and realised they'd get shouted by PvPers for making an excellent arena without balancing ground combat first.
Kevase a lot of the maps were designed for PvP first, the Voth groundzone was going to be a PvP territory control arena before the Devs got cold feet and realised they'd get shouted by PvPers for making an excellent arena without balancing ground combat first.
FBP is still the most powerful ability in PvP! I alphastriked The evul jukub and got hit with a 300k FBP thanks to his wells voodoo build!
Before DR PvPers would struggle to get past a 30k BO spike, you'd need hy3 and quantums to successfully alpha a cruiser (if he was asleep with his speakers off and in another room). Now though I've been hit with 100K! The few times I've managed to dodge it and I fire back all I see coming off the other person is the word immunity.
@brian334 if you look at the chat window when you enter some maps it'll say something along the lines of entering PvP map/instance. Also a quick search through the forums would get you the info you want.
Too many things not fun lately. All I see are zippy ships stacking a bunch of debuffs at the same time (1 ship) since they have no shared CDs, and using an OP ability to destroy their targets in a sec or two.
Not a sigle one of the devs cares for PvP or has any plans to do anything with it. From what I understand they have two expansions already planned and other stuff none of which has anything to do with PvP. Add to that the fact they have to code stuff for each year's anniversary, Winter and Summer event, plus now they come up with new random limited time prize events like the breach.
Too many things not fun lately. All I see are zippy ships stacking a bunch of debuffs at the same time (1 ship) since they have no shared CDs, and using an OP ability to destroy their targets in a sec or two.
Not a sigle one of the devs cares for PvP or has any plans to do anything with it. From what I understand they have two expansions already planned and other stuff none of which has anything to do with PvP. Add to that the fact they have to code stuff for each year's anniversary, Winter and Summer event, plus now they come up with new random limited time prize events like the breach.
So..the other tactic i find fairly frustrating.. is the AOE placate thats used in between Battle cloak cooldown times.Give you roughly 5 seconds on "I SEE YOU" to "whered he go?"..And if you can see him..you can shoot him..
Too many things not fun lately. All I see are zippy ships stacking a bunch of debuffs at the same time (1 ship) since they have no shared CDs, and using an OP ability to destroy their targets in a sec or two.
Not a sigle one of the devs cares for PvP or has any plans to do anything with it. From what I understand they have two expansions already planned and other stuff none of which has anything to do with PvP. Add to that the fact they have to code stuff for each year's anniversary, Winter and Summer event, plus now they come up with new random limited time prize events like the breach.
This may be strange, but the way I've always measured how "broken" and "unbalanced" PvP is at any time is how fast a healer can be taken down. One person should in an escort should not be able to blow through a healer in one volley, and that's what I'm seeing now. So I'd say PvP is in a really bad place right now. The number of debuffs and the ability to stack all of them at once along with the shield penetration is CRAZY.
PvP still exists, most players dont like it as going there with PvE hero FAW boat doesnt work, then they dont want to build a PvP ship because they lost or think other ones are too OP. New players can still get started with PvP, get on TS or just find a good PvPer who might want to help, within few days or better say weeks many players can become good PvPers. Then it is about testing ships and mastering his own ship. Example: I've had 3 ppl who didnt know about PvP at all but who wanted help with doing so. 2 of them finally were good enough to get into our fleet team and one of these two has become one of the best escort players in the game in my opinion. It took about 1 week for the other one to learn about PvPing, of course you always learn more stuff and maybe find new tactics or equip combinations, just try at some point.
Yoda I think what people are saying isn't that you can go into PvP with a PvE build but that some builds that were usable in the past and had a role are no longer really viable.
It used to be a game of measures and counter-measures. But now it just appears that who ever fires first typically wins...and the one who fires first is usually the cloaked guy with all the debuffs put on first.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
This is a PVE game. If you want PVP you can get it here(if your lucky to get a match), but play at your own risk, it's beyond a joke. Game balance is...well...what @lucho80 said.
If you want PVP, you'll need to play another game. The design of the game is based around PVE only, or at least 95% of it.
The thing is, this game was a PvP game in design. Early on it was a great PvP game even when things were unbalanced. Over time it has become harder and harder to get past the learning curve in PvP until, with the advent of DR, it finally became a game of cheese and grind.
Now, the average player has such an obstacle to overcome to get into PvP it is a daunting, and frankly unrewarding, path for the majority of players. Posters in this thread have even said that new PvP'ers can be taught, but how many of those new PvP'ers come into PvP with their PvE build, learn and adapt, and become good PvP'ers without someone to help them over the knowledge threshold, or a fleet to assist them over the gear grind threshold?
At the core of STO is one of the very best PvP starship combat systems ever designed. Subsequent add-ons have made that system all but inaccessible save to the few elites. I suggested a way, earlier in this thread, in which that can be remedied using assets already in the game, which would make the use of ships and gear currently discarded as useless more viable to keep and to build up, and would make use of many more ships which are for sale which currently are simply not worth the investment.
It is not that PvP is dead: PvP was buried alive by a group of developers who never understood its potential as the end game of an MMO which currently has no end game to keep old players coming back for more.
I occasionally see and join PvP queues, but the queues are usually empty when I check them. When I actually am able to get into a PvP game the games always seem way too off balance, to the point where it's usually not fun for most people. This is especially true if you're playing against a group. To win you basically need to go into the match with a ship designed for PvP and be communicating effectively for coordinating and focusing on a target. There's also the people who don't mind throwing money at the game to get the best items and ships they can. STO hasn't addressed this very well. It's not so much an issue with PvE, but playing against some who spent lots of money to get the best gear from the exchange takes still out of equation quickly. Then you can a good chuckle of destroying every ship that throws themselves at you, regardless of build. I haven't played in a PvP group in a long time, so I'm usually on the receiving end.
Having your highly upgraded Fed FT6 eng tank and your teammates destroyed in seconds is a bit discouraging. I had a little bit better luck my KDF BoP as I at least I have the element of surprise and speed. Often if teams happen to be more evenly matched it's a matter of which Tac ship fires first.
PvP is way past due for balancing and tweaking. The very few people who still PvP regularly also know what setups are unbalanced/cheesing when playing against other players. That, and they are usually in groups. I rarely bother worrying about PvP with my builds these days. I don't think I will any time soon, at least until some long past updates are made. It would be nice to see a PvP overhaul, but I don't see that happening. The developers don't seem to think of it as a priority. I can't say I blame them. PvE is what STO does best. I would be interested in a more larger-scale battles, something on the scale of the PvP in other MMOs like GW2 or TESO. That would of course would only work if you got enough people to play it.
Comments
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
My T6 Oddy was (or any cruiser) with 90,000 hull, 15,000 shields, and 50% resist could easily take a 100k-150k hit.
But now in one second your debuffed, your 50% resists are now like 19% or even 0%. The added [Pen] then gets added as bonus damage I believe, add in shield bleed-through a few science skills for subsystems drain debuffs and it's basically a Wild West showdown at dawn where the person who draws first wins
Oh well...
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
If you want PVP, you'll need to play another game. The design of the game is based around PVE only, or at least 95% of it.
This is impossible to do now, with the huge damage boosts, shield and armor pen, and just debuffs in general.
Most of the time the zombie healer got left a lone cause it was near impossible to take him down.
Now...debuff the heck out of the healer tank, decloak, take him out. Finish off the others as fast as you can. Done.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
Yeah that's one of the limits of a zombie tank or a healer build, you can't do a 1v1 with them unless you want to be in it for the rest of your life.
The nail in the coffin was the neutering of FBP effectiveness.
It used to be that polhull and Delta would be a counter to FBP, but the target would still get his knuckles wrapped for trying to Vape a FBP build.
Now you got, temporal immunity/Zhal trait/emergency pilot manuevers/Rock n Roll completely neutering what FBP once was.
Its almost completely useless these days.
I guess all those crying Vapers finally got their way with FBP.
So much for a thorns/reflect build. Sad really, I miss the old days a lot.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
A poor pilot who ignored defense would get fried by fbp, while a good pilot would avoid firing or set up their Def buffs before firing and survive.
Was pretty awesome. Now, its kinda dumb to even load a copy. Unless you're playing against noobs.
My issue is more with traits and lockbox abilities muddying the waters.
I especially don't like being cornered into buying certain ships for certain traits just to pvp competitively.
Remember how crazy viral Torp was when it was released ? It was awful playing against someone who was using it. You could shut someone down for like 10-15 secs at a time and blown them to bits with neut spread and ionic/Intel debuffs LOL.
And next thing you know every two bit pvper was buying themselves a benthan lol
Just awful, and it all happened over night.
Even still we're being slammed with new traits and abilities every month.
Its too much for me.
I actually just wish they'd add a "No Trait" mode, or a mode with premade ships to choose from.
I might try it out again if they ever did that.
So the more and more Tac and DPS you put the least beneficial it would be. I mean the highest resist is 75%. Resists is basically king in PvP to survive. A 50,000 hull hit with 50% resist hits at only 25,000...that's huge. Getting to 50%-75% resist is not easy the way the system works. Then here comes a skill and debuffs your resists -39 to all resists wtf?!
I just had to use 3 skill points and two console slots (plus traits) for my 53% resist and all they need is basically one attack pattern?!
There's no real caps on damage, none. Mmm...balanced? Not a chance.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
There are some abilities that allow you to get over 75% damage resistance, but there are not many of them, and they don't last long.
Before DR PvPers would struggle to get past a 30k BO spike, you'd need hy3 and quantums to successfully alpha a cruiser (if he was asleep with his speakers off and in another room). Now though I've been hit with 100K! The few times I've managed to dodge it and I fire back all I see coming off the other person is the word immunity.
Source for this?
Yea...immunitys are no fun..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Too many things not fun lately. All I see are zippy ships stacking a bunch of debuffs at the same time (1 ship) since they have no shared CDs, and using an OP ability to destroy their targets in a sec or two.
Not a sigle one of the devs cares for PvP or has any plans to do anything with it. From what I understand they have two expansions already planned and other stuff none of which has anything to do with PvP. Add to that the fact they have to code stuff for each year's anniversary, Winter and Summer event, plus now they come up with new random limited time prize events like the breach.
So..the other tactic i find fairly frustrating.. is the AOE placate thats used in between Battle cloak cooldown times.Give you roughly 5 seconds on "I SEE YOU" to "whered he go?"..And if you can see him..you can shoot him..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
This may be strange, but the way I've always measured how "broken" and "unbalanced" PvP is at any time is how fast a healer can be taken down. One person should in an escort should not be able to blow through a healer in one volley, and that's what I'm seeing now. So I'd say PvP is in a really bad place right now. The number of debuffs and the ability to stack all of them at once along with the shield penetration is CRAZY.
New players can still get started with PvP, get on TS or just find a good PvPer who might want to help, within few days or better say weeks many players can become good PvPers. Then it is about testing ships and mastering his own ship. Example: I've had 3 ppl who didnt know about PvP at all but who wanted help with doing so. 2 of them finally were good enough to get into our fleet team and one of these two has become one of the best escort players in the game in my opinion.
It took about 1 week for the other one to learn about PvPing, of course you always learn more stuff and maybe find new tactics or equip combinations, just try at some point.
It used to be a game of measures and counter-measures. But now it just appears that who ever fires first typically wins...and the one who fires first is usually the cloaked guy with all the debuffs put on first.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
And yes btw I havent played PvP pre-DR)
The thing is, this game was a PvP game in design. Early on it was a great PvP game even when things were unbalanced. Over time it has become harder and harder to get past the learning curve in PvP until, with the advent of DR, it finally became a game of cheese and grind.
Now, the average player has such an obstacle to overcome to get into PvP it is a daunting, and frankly unrewarding, path for the majority of players. Posters in this thread have even said that new PvP'ers can be taught, but how many of those new PvP'ers come into PvP with their PvE build, learn and adapt, and become good PvP'ers without someone to help them over the knowledge threshold, or a fleet to assist them over the gear grind threshold?
At the core of STO is one of the very best PvP starship combat systems ever designed. Subsequent add-ons have made that system all but inaccessible save to the few elites. I suggested a way, earlier in this thread, in which that can be remedied using assets already in the game, which would make the use of ships and gear currently discarded as useless more viable to keep and to build up, and would make use of many more ships which are for sale which currently are simply not worth the investment.
It is not that PvP is dead: PvP was buried alive by a group of developers who never understood its potential as the end game of an MMO which currently has no end game to keep old players coming back for more.
Having your highly upgraded Fed FT6 eng tank and your teammates destroyed in seconds is a bit discouraging. I had a little bit better luck my KDF BoP as I at least I have the element of surprise and speed. Often if teams happen to be more evenly matched it's a matter of which Tac ship fires first.
PvP is way past due for balancing and tweaking. The very few people who still PvP regularly also know what setups are unbalanced/cheesing when playing against other players. That, and they are usually in groups. I rarely bother worrying about PvP with my builds these days. I don't think I will any time soon, at least until some long past updates are made. It would be nice to see a PvP overhaul, but I don't see that happening. The developers don't seem to think of it as a priority. I can't say I blame them. PvE is what STO does best. I would be interested in a more larger-scale battles, something on the scale of the PvP in other MMOs like GW2 or TESO. That would of course would only work if you got enough people to play it.