PvP?

deepspacejunkie

Hey all,

so i took about a year off from STO and i have come back recently and it seems that PvP is very dead i have yet to find a PvP match in the ques since i been back (about a month).. Are there are private channels one can go to to find a good old fashion PvP?

questerius

PVP has been on the decline for ages now.
Perhaps there are some channels to arrange PVP matches, but i do not know where to find them.

bobbydazlers

players who like PvP have been begging for an update for as long as I can remember, apparently there are far more important things that need updating first.

alexraptorr

PvP is so broken now it's not funny.
The only way I can ever see it being revived is having a system like in episodes that puts us in control of a pre-built ship for us.
Because there are just way to many overpowered abilities and console combinations to continue to let players have free reign in any kind of meaningful PvP.

Allthough I do know some MMO's solve the problem with having special PvP gear that is only earnable and useable in PvP.

quiiliitiila

It's the same bunch of people sitting and stroking their oh so large large DPS' (and they want you to know they have a large DPS) while whining about content that comes out and how it breaks their PvP. It's been that way since time immemorial, though there was talk a WHILE back about a PvP revamp but it never came to fruition.

I have a few friends in the PvP community, though the majority of them are toxic 360noscopeheadshot type players. They'd rather spend more time proving how much better they are than you than actually giving advice and... You know, being constructive members of the community.

There is (not sure how populated it is anymore) a PvP channel in game where most go to set up matches but I don't know it's name exactly, someone else here may know it.

deepspacejunkie

i always enjoyed the challenge win or lose, but then you have the players like you said the 360noscopeheadshot dudes that kind of ruin that for me because there is no challenge or even a chance of doing anything useful makes me feel like i just spent he last 3 years playing the game to be tossed around like a chew toy..

i would love to see a revamped PvP, or even just better match making some games use a PvP rating to match players together to make it more balanced and fair. Even something like that could make a difference..

on a side note, if someone does know a channel like that i would like to check it out please share it.

risian4

quiiliitiila wrote: »

It's the same bunch of people sitting and stroking their oh so large large DPS' (and they want you to know they have a large DPS) while whining about content that comes out and how it breaks their PvP. It's been that way since time immemorial, though there was talk a WHILE back about a PvP revamp but it never came to fruition.

Nah. DPS'ers just manage to throw out high numbers against enemies that don't do much to counter them. PvP, like it or not, requires at least some skills.

And no, I don't PvP except the occasional friendly match with fleet mates. But I have way much more respect for the best PvP'ers than the DPS crowd and everyone who laughs at PvP'ers.

And that comment about PvP'ers whining about how stuff breaks their PvP:

If it breaks PvP, it breaks PvE. It's likely to break PvE even more since, as said, the NPC enemies don't do much to counter OP stuff. Balance is in the best interest, if not more so in the interest, of the PvE community. PvP'ers will find a way to counter OP stuff, but the enemies in PvE missions that are vaporised before you can shoot at them, will not.

quiiliitiila

risian4 wrote: »

If it breaks PvP, it breaks PvE. It's likely to break PvE even more since, as said, the NPC enemies don't do much to counter OP stuff. Balance is in the best interest, if not more so in the interest, of the PvE community. PvP'ers will find a way to counter OP stuff, but the enemies in PvE missions that are vaporised before you can shoot at them, will not.

A valid point, but they whine against it for all the wrong reasons (PvP) when it should be for PvE reasons. This game was never designed with PvP in mind, it was released with the KDF and really only then because they didn't have enough content for the KDF to level from 1 to max, so they added PvP to fill in the XP gaps. Then it just kinda sat there and atrophied.

thekodanarmada

TRIBBLE PvP. I wanna bomb planets in true K.D.F. fashion. I.K.S. 12HRS DISRUPTORS DON'T STOP

starcruiser

deepspacejunkie wrote: »

Hey all,

so i took about a year off from STO and i have come back recently and it seems that PvP is very dead i have yet to find a PvP match in the ques since i been back (about a month).. Are there are private channels one can go to to find a good old fashion PvP?

PvP is beyond life support in this MMO and don't think it will be fixed anytime soon. All PvP channels are empty shadows of what they used to be ​​

odinforever20000

OPVP is the channel most of us are on that do PVP..or go hangout in Ker'rat...Some of us are the 360noscope type and just want to learn and get better..See ya in the que.

fatman592

PvP is dead, Delta Rising was the nail in the coffin. Even trying to PvP within my fleet with highly limited gear/power restrictions was a disaster. Fighting people who have some grasp of PvP will just lead to a couple viable builds, which gets boring. And worse, new people have no clue. I had a match with a couple fleet mates where I just kept taking off gear and using fewer and fewer powers. I ended up still being able to kill them with just a couple weapons, a deflector, engine and warp core.

That was the moment that I gave up on PvP. No amount of "monster play", "PvP only gear/ships/rep" or "vanilla PvP" will be able to account for the learning curve. I wouldn't even call myself an average PvPer, but faced with such a massive knowledge gap, I just don't even know where to start. Devs should just purge the game of anything PvP related, add PvP related posts to the FTC here on the forums, and be done with it.

quiiliitiila wrote: »

It's the same bunch of people sitting and stroking their oh so large large DPS' (and they want you to know they have a large DPS) while whining about content that comes out and how it breaks their PvP. It's been that way since time immemorial, though there was talk a WHILE back about a PvP revamp but it never came to fruition.

^ Has clearly never PvPed in this game, which is probably for the better.

spaceeagle20

Actually the PvP queues are more alive than many PvE queues except for the Borg ones, CCA and a few others lol
Still not so alive as they used to be I guess but there are a few more new players and sometimes I see new names.
However, yes, it's very hard especially against very good players and even more against good premades and now almost all pvpers are very good.
If you want to check this pvp out, take a look at YouTube : Irenvelle, The New Order and the Flying Dutchman post videos from time to time.
Anyway today is the first day of the skill tree revamp : mixed reactions so far but it doesn't look so bad for now . Let's hope for the best.
And, yes, I am like you : PvE gets pretty boring after a while and the only challenge there is DPS so once you have DPS laid down , I feel like I must do PvP otherwise, well, I would spend half of my time on another game.

kyle223cat

This ^^
I mean just look at the pvp leaderboard and you'll see that there are many matches that take place almost every day.

http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/?timeframe=weekly&top10=2&;

risingwolfshadow

At the moment the major issue with PvP is the sheer lack of balance. To survive a match (let alone win one) you need years of resources, knowledge and experience (or cheat like a big girls blouse with Zhall trait). This has led to science currently ruling the roost with TBR and FBP.
Yes, science is king in PvP, has been for a long time.
"How?" you ask? Because science often requires a skilled opponent to be fighting against you to have any effect and the sheer amount of trickery you can dish out far is lethal to anyone hat relies on spike damage and evasion to survive.

Genuinely lol at the guy who said PvPers like to go on about their DPS. Wrong, commonly my friend acc is far more important than DPS. I've fought cocky DPSers after pug queues and their DPS builds have nothing on a half decent PvP build.

georikzaberisk

I almost spilled my coffee when read that DPSer's are the reason for PvP decline. Seriously people who don't PvP in this game or just maybe got beaten by someone who uses BFAW+Epic gear would think PvP is about the same as PvE. Well too bad it isn't.

PvP in this game isn't "Bind everything else on the spacebar" nor it's just plain target and shoot. Sure DPS is something that is good to have and Burst as well but in the end it's all about how one uses his/her tools in combat. BOFF skills, DOFFs and knowing when to use you skills is important.

Hence in PvP Science is a really way to go since Science is practically the best of both worlds on everything. Which in a PvP scenario can help a lot to adjust. STO PvP is different from most PvP on different MMO's. And it's sure hell is different from the PvE scenario of the game since in PvE enemies are nothing more than damage sponges you get rid off in a few seconds. Seriously once you know how it's like a walk in a park for PvE most specially if you are well geared.

STO PvP is a different Beast. One that can bite you back as easily if you try to undermine it.

brian334

PvP could be fixed by updating the current 'Match Team Leader's Level' function to include all the high level traits, gear, and perks. Then one could get into, say, a Tier 1 ship and meet his foe as equals. The six extra years of grinding you have and I don't means all those traits, passives, and gold items that you have and I do not will unbalance the hell out of any PvP match. Those must be equalized for fair play in PvP, if only temporarily.

My idea:
At Tier 1 all gear is temporarily capped at the power levels of Mk II White gear and all passives and traits other than those available to a level 10 captain are disabled.

At Tier 2 all gear is temporarily capped at Mk IV Green, and captains abilities only enabled up to level 20.

At Tier 3 the cap is Mk VI Blue and level 30

At Tier 4 the cap is Mk VIII Purple and level 40

At Tier 5 the cap is Mk VIII Red/Blue and level 50

At Tier 5U and up there is no cap. This is also the bracket in which players begin to gain ranking on official leader boards.

If you put your Mk XIV gear on your Tier 1 ship it won't actually alter the item, but simply restrict its power to that of a white Mk II item. Thus, all set bonuses would be temporarily eliminated. The same set in a Tier III ship would act as a Blue item, and only the Two-Piece set bonus would apply. You would have to equip your set on a Tier 4 ship for the Three Piece bonus.

This would, of course, result in player skill dominating the game. And player skill is a huge factor in PvP. Much more so than any PvE content. Players must learn to coordinate to take out an opponent. To help with that I would recommend that players who have higher than 50% kill/death ratio in PvP be offered a position as a Mentor. Mentors would queue in low tier matches and only one would be allowed on each team, slotted as team leader, with an easily identifiable 'mentor' tag on his ship (or character for ground.) His role would be to teach new PvP'ers to get more out of their performance, and his reward would be directly related to how his teammates feel about his performance. They would each choose a percentage of 120 dilithium to reward him, and if he did a crappy job or a great one the players could reward him. This would give the mentor a pool of 480 dil possible as a reward. Mentorship would end at T5U+, of course.

There is nothing like competition between players to drive the sale of consoles, and if the powers are as balanced as possible given the cost of the item, then PvP players will buy at least one of each, spurring Z-store sales. If PvP is accessible at low levels and players in those ranks feel useful and effective there will be a larger pool of PvP'ers who will begin the grind to gather all the good gear. Cryptic gets another cash cow and players get game content that doesn't get old with the new season update. It's a win-win.

And if you hate PvP you never have to queue. This idea would take nothing away from you at all. Well, it may drive the sale of low tier gear at the exchange, so you might just end up making more EC off the junk you currently discard.

robyvision

pvp wut?

risingwolfshadow

To be fair, I don't use a lot of cheese and broken abilities, the cheesiest thing I have on my builds is the plasmonic leach which if you're a fed isn't that big a deal. I don't win a lot of matches because I purposely won't use a skill/ system to allow me to faceroll opponents. I use what I need to have a good match and provide support to the team I'm with.

I don't expect a fair fight and I very rarely get one because I handicap myself by not using all the broken rubbish cryptic throws out. But it is oh so sweet when I'm giving my opponent hell in C&H or Ker'rat despite his OP broken cheese build and win on occasion.

There are and have been many PvPers that are only as good as their build and you can tell who they are because when you throw something else into the mix, when you counter their vape or their cheese by not running the current broken meta, or worse, when you turn to fly at them instead of flying away they fall panic, they don't know what to do and get beaten senseless by an "inferior" build.

For all the OPness that ap FAW builds are on a pilot ship, when I fly at them, there's nothing they can do, they fly far too fast to land the consecutive hits they need and the majority of them are rubbish pilots because all they know is spacebar hero PvP.

The thing that's really attractive about PvP to me is that it's a psychological warfare as much as its a test of skill and resources.
Before DR I used to PvP with either my t5u defiant or a Tal Shiar destroyer.
I would brace for impact them ram stronger, sometimes faster opponents (especially cocky bug ships that liked to joust everyone). There was nothing more satisfying than ramming another player that has you on the ropes, surviving the ram thanks to BFI and pounding his teammate. They'd usually end up running/cloaking or panic and make lots of mistakes which would get them killed.

But ships are too fast for that kind of fun nowadays and cryptic has made sure that any measure of skill can easily be taken out of the equation. All you have to do is fly into Ker'rat when it's busy and ask what the current meat is, tie all abilities to the spacebar and voilà!

hanover2

Hang out in Ker'rat if you want to get spammed to death by broken whale cheese. There's always someone sitting cloaked in there, waiting for the moment all of your BO abilities are on cooldown and you're too swarmed by Borg to hear 15 key-bound abilities triggered in .05 seconds, so they can swoop in and claim their "impressive victory."

risingwolfshadow

You're going to Ker'rat to fight Borg!?

It's submarine warfare in PvP, if you hear buffs, BFI, tac team, EPtS and a2id. If you have no cloak you need to cycle defensive and resistance buffs as a countermeasure and just general defence.

odinforever20000

risingwolfshadow wrote: »

You're going to Ker'rat to fight Borg!?

It's submarine warfare in PvP, if you hear buffs, BFI, tac team, EPtS and a2id. If you have no cloak you need to cycle defensive and resistance buffs as a countermeasure and just general defence.

Yup..Typically works well..
tho..Q'whip blasted me out of the stars with his Pilot torpedo warbird..completely out in the open.:D it was awesome.

risingwolfshadow

Yeah, torp builds with super duper advanced cloak is pretty annoying. Even APD won't debuff their stealth these days. Mind you they can fly to the other end of the map in 2 seconds. So even if you can see them, have fun catching them.

taylor1701d

I havent enjoyed PvP since before DR.
Therefore I don't do it at all anymore.
Too much garbage bypassing shields, combo'd with ungodly Resistance Debuffs...nah man.. just nah.
I'd have more fun brushing with razor blades. And there'd be less bleedthrough.
F That.

grayfoxjames

PvPed today with a fleet mate. PvP is completely done I feel. The tanky healer build is now useless. With all these new skills that penetrate hull, shields, and lower resists faster than you can get it back up...the only real viable build is just straight Tac all points in basically tac now.

My Oddy used to be able to resist double tap beam overload alpha strikers/vapes...now it just cuts like a hot knife through butter. Nothing you can do. Even building a zombie tank is useless, won't last very long. 99,600 hull, 15,500 shields, 53% resist to everything unbuffed doesn't even matter. With resists having diminishing returns and attack buffs having none, well the equilibrium is broken now and not able to be repaired.

Now all it is, is debuff the enemy get his max 75% resist down to like 15-20% with APB and other things have all [Pen] mods, also shield penetrations, buff up, decloak, unload, and repeat.

Basically these days the person that wins is the one who finds the other first, buffs decloaks, and fires first...

spaceeagle20

@grayfoxjames
Well, first off , you are using an old t5 ship which came out before I was even playing.
Second, which is your build, abilities, personal traits, rep traits and starship traits ?
You can't come to a fight with a sword and expect to win against a rifle, just saying.
Anyway, with that being said, after the skill revamp which has occurred 2 days ago, I have heard reports of extremely powerful and " penetrating" cannons , Super drains and ISA pugs a lot faster than they ever were lol

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risingwolfshadow

its sad really, before DR STO's combat system is very good and fun to play with. You could find a hard counter almost anything (even vapers). Couldn't be further from the truth now.

lucho80

Broken PvP. Take ISO cannon, sprinkle the sci ultimate ability. Have 100% shield penetration and 50% chance of vaping a target.

Went to Ker'rat last night, S11.5 has made PvP pretty much a game of who shoots first hard.

grayfoxjames

Well said RisingWolf. Before no matter how hard someone could hit, you could always find a way to negate the damage and continue the battle. So any build was usable for the most part....now, there just isn't enough counters or defense to battle against so much debuffing.