I'm curious if Batman vs. Superman will ever cross the billion dollar mark?
I'm guessing no... If they're having to consider releasing the Director's Cut straight to cinema, that in itself reeks of desperation, but the thing they're forgetting, is that all the negative reviews that have made people not want to watch it already, are likely going to still make folks not want to go and watch it. Additional minutes of screen-time, isn't likely to generate much interest in those who are already uninterested Might scrape in some extra $$s from the folks who did enjoy it, and who might like to see an extended version, but I can't see it making any difference in terms of the perception of the movie...
After a disappointing weekend that saw it lose to a horrible Melissa McCarthy comedy in only its third week of release, Batman vs. Superman looks poised for a total domestic run between $325 and $340 million. That’s below Deadpool, Furious 7 and even American Sniper and certainly not what Warner Bros. had hoped for their big (and expensive) movie. Current projections indicate that Batman vs. Superman won’t turn a profit when all is said and done. Hoping to inch closer to profitability, Warner Bros. is reportedly mulling the idea of releasing Zack Snyder’s extended, R-rated cut of Batman vs. Superman directly to theaters.
Is it safe to officially recognize Batman vs Superman as 'dogshit' yet?
You can call it anything you want. That is the great thing about a subjective opinion: you are no more right or wrong than anyone else. That said, there are 3 fairly OBjective ways to "measure" a movie:
1) critical reviews/scores
2) audience reviews/scores
3) box office
The critics' obviously hate this movie. No disagreement there. The audience reviews/scores have not been AS bad as the critics, but even they are getting below the 70% mark now:
Finally, it seems the movie is making less money than expected. So on all 3 accounts, purely from an objective perspective, the movie is definitely a disappointment.
Does that make it "dogshit"? If you think so, that's fine. Someone else probably thinks your favorite movie is "dogshit" too, and they are just as subjectively right as you are.
Safe enough to say 'failure'?
By the objective standards I mentioned, yes I think it definitely failed.
After a disappointing weekend that saw it lose to a horrible Melissa McCarthy comedy in only its third week of release, Batman vs. Superman looks poised for a total domestic run between $325 and $340 million. That’s below Deadpool, Furious 7 and even American Sniper and certainly not what Warner Bros. had hoped for their big (and expensive) movie. Current projections indicate that Batman vs. Superman won’t turn a profit when all is said and done. Hoping to inch closer to profitability, Warner Bros. is reportedly mulling the idea of releasing Zack Snyder’s extended, R-rated cut of Batman vs. Superman directly to theaters.
Is it safe to officially recognize Batman vs Superman as 'dogshit' yet?
You can call it anything you want. That is the great thing about a subjective opinion: you are no more right or wrong than anyone else. That said, there are 3 fairly OBjective ways to "measure" a movie:
1) critical reviews/scores
2) audience reviews/scores
3) box office
The critics' obviously hate this movie. No disagreement there. The audience reviews/scores have not been AS bad as the critics, but even they are getting below the 70% mark now:
Finally, it seems the movie is making less money than expected. So on all 3 accounts, purely from an objective perspective, the movie is definitely a disappointment.
Does that make it "dogshit"? If you think so, that's fine. Someone else probably thinks your favorite movie is "dogshit" too, and they are just as subjectively right as you are.
Safe enough to say 'failure'?
By the objective standards I mentioned, yes I think it definitely failed.
True on that remark about subjective opinions. Virtually every other Trekkie on these forums hates my 3rd favourite Trek Film - Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (not to mention my absolute favourite - Generations). So, that tells you something about subjectivity.
For me, Batfleck grew on me. However, when I look at him, I still see Ben Affleck and not Batman. Just a personal preference, but I think the decision to cast unknowns/relatively unknowns in these roles worked out better in the long run.
For me, that's the issue... I'm not seeing a character, but an actor, and that's not how it's supposed to work... When I watched the Nolan Batman movies, I didn't think I was watching Patrick Bateman, and when I watched Terminator:Salvation, I didn't think I was watching Bruce Wayne... I accepted Bale in all of those roles on the strengths of each performance... When Aaron Taylor-Johnson was in Age of Ultron, I didn't think 'Kickass' (I actually didn't recognise him till the credits ran) For me, Batfleck though, just looks like Affleck wearing a home-made cosplay costume...
Still not sold on Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, but I'll at least give her a shot. From what I hear/read, she's one of the highlights of this film. I just hope her solo film is good as Wonder Woman is one of the best comic characters out there.
Yes, she is supposed to be one of the highlights, and I'm not surprized about that, as I really like her as an actress. I'm glad she's promoting her next project on fb, because I can start liking her posts again... I don't think I'll be convinced by her as the casting choice, but in her own film, I might at least accept her in the role (in as much as I accept that Halle Berry played Catwoman...) and equally, being in her own movie may allow her to fill the role itself better than BvS gave her the opportunity to...
I'm not sure I lay the blame entirely on Zack Snyder. He did a good job with Watchmen and The 300 IMO. From what it sounds like to me, the movie suffers from a disjointed script with too much going on and bad editing. Not to mention they seemed to have went "too dark".
Yeah, I really like Watchmen (haven't actually seen 300, it never really appealed) And I totally agree there, a bad script will always be a bad script, and the editing can make or break a film... I think Zack Snyder had enough input to take a share of the blame though. Not all, but certainly some...
The movie is getting pretty bad reviews. No one is arguing that fact. That said, is there some new point you find in the recent articles you posted, or are you just posting more of the same?
Moviegoers looking for Batman, the detective-vigilante with no superpowers, or Superman, embodiment of “Truth, justice, and the American way,” should look somewhere else. Anywhere else these character have appeared. “Batman V Superman” is the un-event movie of the year, a momentum-less ode to uncreative people everywhere that torches two of pop culture’s greatest characters and uses their ashes as its own personal urinal cake.
Moviegoers looking for Batman, the detective-vigilante with no superpowers, or Superman, embodiment of “Truth, justice, and the American way,” should look somewhere else. Anywhere else these character have appeared. “Batman V Superman” is the un-event movie of the year, a momentum-less ode to uncreative people everywhere that torches two of pop culture’s greatest characters and uses their ashes as its own personal urinal cake.
Whilst I agree with most of the criticisms the reviewer has, they were made in such an over the top vitriolic manner you would think the people involved in the film had personally murdered his pet dog. Although I think the film has its problems, I could not see a single positive aspect being pointed out (apart from Alfec being handsome).
He hated the director, he hated the actors, he hated the writers, he hated the theme and he hated the setting. And whilst that's all perfectly fine it does begin to make you question the reviewers objectivity.
Moviegoers looking for Batman, the detective-vigilante with no superpowers, or Superman, embodiment of “Truth, justice, and the American way,” should look somewhere else. Anywhere else these character have appeared. “Batman V Superman” is the un-event movie of the year, a momentum-less ode to uncreative people everywhere that torches two of pop culture’s greatest characters and uses their ashes as its own personal urinal cake.
What do you mean your "calling" it? You have been saying the same thing over and over for weeks.
I mean, it looks like growing opinion is matching with my original thoughts of the film... I don't think there can be any doubt now that this film is as bad as critics are making it out to be, and the positive reviewers/defenders are just fanboys who can't hear anything bad about it (a bit like the JJ/anti-JJ schism...)
For me the maximum over-dose of "darkness" is what ruined it.
I really liked 300 & The Watchman, but I expected them to be dark in mood and atmosphere.
(that is the type of comics they are)
I have no interest in seeing SUPERMAN be portrayed in the same manner.
(if just the Batman scenes had be done that way with the Superman ones done the opposite for contrast, I might not have noticed/minded so much)
I gave Man Of Steel a pass on this, because they were trying something new and I thought that they would bring the character closer to his usual portrayal with BvS...
Instead, it seems they went darker.
I also really don't care for that overall atmosphere, which Snyder seems to feel is the required 'style' now since the Nolan Batman movies.
If all of the DC/WB movies are going to be of this nature, I'm probably not going to pay to see them anymore.
The MARVEL movies may be over-the-top and goofy at times, but at least I don't leave the theater after seeing one feeling like I should slash my wrists.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Whilst I agree with most of the criticisms the reviewer has, they were made in such an over the top vitriolic manner you would think the people involved in the film had personally murdered his pet dog. Although I think the film has its problems, I could not see a single positive aspect being pointed out (apart from Alfec being handsome).
He hated the director, he hated the actors, he hated the writers, he hated the theme and he hated the setting. And whilst that's all perfectly fine it does begin to make you question the reviewers objectivity.
I have to admit, I've always enjoyed the films David Goyer's written or been attached to, so I was surprized by the level of hate... The silly thing, is I don't hate the director, or actors, or writer... I wouldn't've cast those actors thusly, but I don't hate them (I actually really liked Daredevil, and Ben Affleck as Daredevil) I really enjoy Watchmen, so I'm not an anti-Snyder fanboy... I didn't enjoy Man of Steel, because it never 'felt right'. When I first heard of Batman vs Superman, equally, the concept and names attached never 'felt right'... That so many reviews are negative, and negative about the same things, I'm taking those as valid, due to the consistency of the gripes...
I actually really liked Daredevil, and Ben Affleck as Daredevil)
Now that movie is TRULY a pile of dogstuff!
Actually, I'm JK. I don't feel the need bash a movie I don't like. But that goes back to my earlier point: plenty of people DO think that movie is dogstuff, so those people are just as "right" as you are in saying BvS is dogstuff.
That said, you made a very interesting comment afterwards...
That so many reviews are negative, and negative about the same things, I'm taking those as valid, due to the consistency of the gripes...
Wait a sec: Daredevil has also been *consistently* panned. So why would you accept one movie's critical consensus as accurate, but not anothers?
I actually really liked Daredevil, and Ben Affleck as Daredevil)
Now that movie is TRULY a pile of fecal matter!
Actually, I'm JK. I don't feel the need bash a movie I don't like. But that goes back to my earlier point: plenty of people DO think that movie is dogstuff, so those people are just as "right" as you are in saying BvS is dogstuff.
That said, you made a very interesting comment afterwards...
That so many reviews are negative, and negative about the same things, I'm taking those as valid, due to the consistency of the gripes...
Wait a sec: Daredevil has also been *consistently* panned. So why would you accept one movie's critical consensus as accurate, but not anothers?
Personal preference, I guess...* Also, while I've seen folks say they don't like Daredevil, I'd not actually read any true reviews of it... Equally, the reviews I've read of Basic Instinct 2, show it wasn't well received, and received a number of Razzies, but on a personal level, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a good movie, and a fitting sequel... Sharon Stone's acting was slammed, yet I felt she portrayed Catherine Tramell exactly as she had in Basic Instinct, and that she was still, IMHO, the most evil literary character I can think of... Equally, I'm not trying to bash BvS (although I can see how it would seem that I am) It just never interested me (for reasons) and the reviews coming out, are pretty consistent to suggest that I'm not missing anything by not watching it... Same as when Suicide Squad was first announced, it never appealed to me (although I know it is eagerly anticipated by many) and it wouldn't surprize me if it also doesn't live up to expectations or get similarly panned after release...
*
[Edit to add]
Also, personal experience... I'd seen Daredevil (and enjoyed it) before I heard that a lot of folks weren't impressed by it. BvS, on the other hand, never appealed to me, and, as with my not eating a curry which odds on I'm going to throw up, I'm not going to go and watch a movie which I strongly suspect I won't enjoy... Arguably, if I was to watch it I might enjoy it (I doubt it, but hey, anything's possible) but I'm not prepared to take the chance, especially when so many reviews, like the above linked, continue to emerge pointing out other stuff about the film which I know would spoil my enjoyment of it...
Personal preference, I guess... Also, while I've seen folks say they don't like Daredevil, I'd not actually read any true reviews of it... Equally, the reviews I've read of Basic Instinct 2, show it wasn't well received, and received a number of Razzies, but on a personal level, I really enjoyed it.
And that just serves to prove my point: one person's great movie is another person's pile of dogstuff, and both people are equally right.
I'm not trying to bash it and say it's dogshit because I don't like it/don't want to see it, I'm saying that that seems to sum up the overall opinion reviewrs are having...
I'm not trying to bash it and say it's dogshit because I don't like it/don't want to see it, I'm saying that that seems to sum up the overall opinion reviewrs are having..
And that's fine. Just like the consensus opinions about both Daredevil and Basic Instinct 2 is that they are dogstuff. But like I said earlier; one person's great movie is another person's pile of dogstuff, and both people are equally right.
I'm not trying to bash it and say it's dogshit because I don't like it/don't want to see it, I'm saying that that seems to sum up the overall opinion reviewrs are having..
And that's fine. Just like the consensus opinions about both Daredevil and Basic Instinct 2 is that they are dogstuff. But like I said earlier; one person's great movie is another person's pile of dogstuff, and both people are equally right.
As I mentioned, the difference is likely the fact that I saw and enjoyed those movies, before hearing the reviews... I admit, I was worried about watching Basic Instinct 2, simply because, and I openly admit it, I love the character of Catherine... She is both entrancing, and terrifying. I was concerned that she would be portrayed differently or retconned from the first film, and that might diminishe her, or my appreciation of her, in some way. As Hawku commented upthread about how to delete BvS from memory, I knew I wouldn't be able to unsee Basic Instinct 2, but curiousity and optimism got the better of me. I can see why it got some of the reviews it did, as thematically, it was very similar to the original, and the music score indeed was the same, but, I found that brought consistency, and I thought it was interesting to see Catherine more under analysis. I guess the difference, is that I actually wanted (or at least 'had an interest') to watch Basic Instinct 2, where I never had the interest to watch BvS, and the reviews coming out, are just reinforcing that thought... I just tried typing 'Batman vs Superman is awesome' into google, just to see if I could find some positive reviews, and even before that came up as the auto-suggestion, 'Batman vs Superman is awful' was suggested first (along with other less than positive suggestions) and even the review which was given with the 'awesome' search, is pretty critical of it...
I just tried typing 'Batman vs Superman is awesome' into google, just to see if I could find some positive reviews, and even before that came up as the auto-suggestion, 'Batman vs Superman is awful' was suggested first (along with other less than positive suggestions) and even the review which was given with the 'awesome' search, is pretty critical of it...
Basic Instinct 2 has an even *lower* rating than BvS. But guess what? That doesn't matter if you enjoy it. The same goes for BvS. One person thinks a movie is great. Another person thinks it is dogstuff. Both people are equally "right". That same logic is true of *both* BvS and Basic Instinct 2.
I just tried typing 'Batman vs Superman is awesome' into google, just to see if I could find some positive reviews, and even before that came up as the auto-suggestion, 'Batman vs Superman is awful' was suggested first (along with other less than positive suggestions) and even the review which was given with the 'awesome' search, is pretty critical of it...
Basic Instinct 2 has an even *lower* rating than BvS. But guess what? That doesn't matter if you enjoy it. The same goes for BvS. One person thinks a movie is great. Another person thinks it is dogstuff. Both people are equally "right". That same logic is true of *both* BvS and Basic Instinct 2.
He appears to have agreed with you already nagus...
I just tried typing 'Batman vs Superman is awesome' into google, just to see if I could find some positive reviews, and even before that came up as the auto-suggestion, 'Batman vs Superman is awful' was suggested first (along with other less than positive suggestions) and even the review which was given with the 'awesome' search, is pretty critical of it...
Basic Instinct 2 has an even *lower* rating than BvS. But guess what? That doesn't matter if you enjoy it. The same goes for BvS. One person thinks a movie is great. Another person thinks it is dogstuff. Both people are equally "right". That same logic is true of *both* BvS and Basic Instinct 2.
He appears to have agreed with you already nagus...
To be clear, he doesn't need to agree with me. But since you are saying he did, which *specific* comments are you referring to?
Comments
By the objective standards I mentioned, yes I think it definitely failed.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Yes, she is supposed to be one of the highlights, and I'm not surprized about that, as I really like her as an actress. I'm glad she's promoting her next project on fb, because I can start liking her posts again... I don't think I'll be convinced by her as the casting choice, but in her own film, I might at least accept her in the role (in as much as I accept that Halle Berry played Catwoman...) and equally, being in her own movie may allow her to fill the role itself better than BvS gave her the opportunity to...
Yeah, I really like Watchmen (haven't actually seen 300, it never really appealed) And I totally agree there, a bad script will always be a bad script, and the editing can make or break a film... I think Zack Snyder had enough input to take a share of the blame though. Not all, but certainly some...
The movie is getting pretty bad reviews. No one is arguing that fact. That said, is there some new point you find in the recent articles you posted, or are you just posting more of the same?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm calling it: Batman vs Superman = [modded]
What do you mean your "calling" it? You have been saying the same thing over and over for weeks.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Whilst I agree with most of the criticisms the reviewer has, they were made in such an over the top vitriolic manner you would think the people involved in the film had personally murdered his pet dog. Although I think the film has its problems, I could not see a single positive aspect being pointed out (apart from Alfec being handsome).
He hated the director, he hated the actors, he hated the writers, he hated the theme and he hated the setting. And whilst that's all perfectly fine it does begin to make you question the reviewers objectivity.
I really liked 300 & The Watchman, but I expected them to be dark in mood and atmosphere.
(that is the type of comics they are)
I have no interest in seeing SUPERMAN be portrayed in the same manner.
(if just the Batman scenes had be done that way with the Superman ones done the opposite for contrast, I might not have noticed/minded so much)
I gave Man Of Steel a pass on this, because they were trying something new and I thought that they would bring the character closer to his usual portrayal with BvS...
Instead, it seems they went darker.
I also really don't care for that overall atmosphere, which Snyder seems to feel is the required 'style' now since the Nolan Batman movies.
If all of the DC/WB movies are going to be of this nature, I'm probably not going to pay to see them anymore.
The MARVEL movies may be over-the-top and goofy at times, but at least I don't leave the theater after seeing one feeling like I should slash my wrists.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Now that movie is TRULY a pile of dogstuff!
Actually, I'm JK. I don't feel the need bash a movie I don't like. But that goes back to my earlier point: plenty of people DO think that movie is dogstuff, so those people are just as "right" as you are in saying BvS is dogstuff.
That said, you made a very interesting comment afterwards...
Wait a sec: Daredevil has also been *consistently* panned. So why would you accept one movie's critical consensus as accurate, but not anothers?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
*
[Edit to add]
Also, personal experience... I'd seen Daredevil (and enjoyed it) before I heard that a lot of folks weren't impressed by it. BvS, on the other hand, never appealed to me, and, as with my not eating a curry which odds on I'm going to throw up, I'm not going to go and watch a movie which I strongly suspect I won't enjoy... Arguably, if I was to watch it I might enjoy it (I doubt it, but hey, anything's possible) but I'm not prepared to take the chance, especially when so many reviews, like the above linked, continue to emerge pointing out other stuff about the film which I know would spoil my enjoyment of it...
And that just serves to prove my point: one person's great movie is another person's pile of dogstuff, and both people are equally right.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Oh, I gotcha. So you are *NOT* trying to bash it, just say it doesn't appeal to you personally. Oh wait...
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm not trying to bash it and say it's dogshit because I don't like it/don't want to see it, I'm saying that that seems to sum up the overall opinion reviewrs are having...
And that's fine. Just like the consensus opinions about both Daredevil and Basic Instinct 2 is that they are dogstuff. But like I said earlier; one person's great movie is another person's pile of dogstuff, and both people are equally right.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Basic Instinct 2 has an even *lower* rating than BvS. But guess what? That doesn't matter if you enjoy it. The same goes for BvS. One person thinks a movie is great. Another person thinks it is dogstuff. Both people are equally "right". That same logic is true of *both* BvS and Basic Instinct 2.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
He appears to have agreed with you already nagus...
To be clear, he doesn't need to agree with me. But since you are saying he did, which *specific* comments are you referring to?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008