Not quite sure what the difficulty is you have in understanding what "in general" means? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Again, no one ever said Batman never kills anyone.
I think the "confusion" comes from your exaggeration. You called him a "crazed killing machine", when he did not even kill the majority of the people he fought in the movie. So to hopefully clear up any confusion, here is a question:
If you admit Batman does kill sometimes, and the Batman in this movie does not kill the majority of the people he fights, in what *specific* way(s) do you think this Batman significantly differs from the comic version?
It is also worth noting that some comics are more violent than others. Even comics about the *same* character. One writer may portray that character more violently than the next writer after them, but they are still the same character. This movie portrays Batman more violently than some have, but not out of line with how some writers have written the character many times.
I think the "confusion" comes from your exaggeration. You called him a "crazed killing machine", when he did not even kill the majority of the people he fought in the movie. So hopefully that helps you see how some people could "misunderstand" your point, when you exaggerate like that.
Well no, the discussion is about whether or not Batman kills anyone.
Allow me to refresh your memory. You said...
As I said, in general Batman does not kill people. In general does not mean never. Portraying him as a crazed killing machine is not accurate as far as I'm concerned
Nowhere in BvS is Batman portrayed as a "crazed killing machine", no idea where you would get that idea
As you can see, he was clearly responding to your exaggeration, not simply whether Batman killed or not.
And then, your response...
Not quite sure what the difficulty is you have in understanding what "in general" means? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Again, no one ever said Batman never kills anyone.
And then my response...
I think the "confusion" comes from your exaggeration. You called him a "crazed killing machine", when he did not even kill the majority of the people he fought in the movie.
So yes, I do think your exaggeration is what led to the "confusion" above with @azrael605, not simply the issue of whether Batman killed or not.
I don't really see it as an exaggeration, but if you feel it is, more power to you.
Whatever you want to call it, you can clearly see from that conversation chain that that phrase was where the confusion with @azrael605 was coming from.
Also, here is a question: in what way do you think someone who does not kill the majority of the people they fight is a "crazed killing machine" if it was not meant as an exaggeration?
To be clear: I understand that that is your opinion, but I actually want to understand your reasoning.
@markhawkman can you tell what just happened here? Did we just go from it wasn't an exaggeration to it is?
No, I was agreeing with his definition of a word. Feel free to read into that whatever you like.
Rather than reading into it, which may lead to more misunderstanding, I want to actually know what *you* mean. You said were not exaggerating, so that's fine. That being the case, in what way do you think a Batman who does not even kill the majority of the people he fights is a "crazed killing machine"? That seemed like an exaggeration, but since you are saying it is not, I'm interested in your reasoning.
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Now as far as whether you like the current cinematic Batman, or any version of the character who kills, that's not really my concern, as Nagus says I was addressing the "crazed killing machine" comment.
Unfortunately, Valoreah does not seem to want to explain what he means. He said he was *not* exaggerating, so he must have some specific reason he would call a Batman that does not kill the majority of the people he fights a "crazed killing machine". But oddly, he doesn't seem to want to share what that reason is. It's no wonder people get confused in a situation like that.
During the final confrontation with Batman and Christopher Walken's character Catwoman lists the people who have killed her and she specifically names Batman, here I even pulled up the scene on youtube, she names Batman at about 1 minute 20 seconds in.
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Yes, he was the director. No, not all of his films have supernatural elements. Even his first Batman movie did not have anything "supernatural" in it, outside of the comic book world setting.
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Yes, he was the director. No, not all of his films have supernatural elements. Even his first Batman movie did not have anything "supernatural" in it, outside of the comic book world setting.
No, but given the film 'Catwoman' contained several similar characteristics as the Burton Catwoman (including the BS Nine Lives), it wouldn't surprise me all that much. Although, her falling into rubbish does kind of leave that possibility open, which may have been intentional.
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Yes, he was the director. No, not all of his films have supernatural elements. Even his first Batman movie did not have anything "supernatural" in it, outside of the comic book world setting.
No, but given the film 'Catwoman' contained several similar characteristics as the Burton Catwoman (including the BS Nine Lives), it wouldn't surprise me all that much. Although, her falling into rubbish does kind of leave that possibility open, which may have been intentional.
To be clear: I'm not saying that it "impossible" that the actual story of the movie was that she came back from the dead. However, I don't think anything we saw in the movie world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns suggested there were supernatural things like that going on. And IMO, Catwoman was mentally disturbed, so what she believes to be true and what is actually true are not necessarily the same thing.
That said, is there anything you saw in the world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns that suggested there were supernatural things going on? And to be clear, I don't mean the fact that there were "superheroes". By "supernatural" I mean magical or paranormal, like returning from the dead.
PS: I think the Joker also said he died, when he was confronting his old boss in Batman 1. But do you think he literally meant he died and came back from the dead with some kind of magic, or do you think that was the ravings of a crazy person?
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Yes, he was the director. No, not all of his films have supernatural elements. Even his first Batman movie did not have anything "supernatural" in it, outside of the comic book world setting.
No, but given the film 'Catwoman' contained several similar characteristics as the Burton Catwoman (including the BS Nine Lives), it wouldn't surprise me all that much. Although, her falling into rubbish does kind of leave that possibility open, which may have been intentional.
To be clear: I'm not saying that it "impossible" that the actual story of the movie was that she came back from the dead. However, I don't think anything we saw in the movie world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns suggested there were supernatural things like that going on. And IMO, Catwoman was mentally disturbed, so what she believes to be true and what is actually true are not necessarily the same thing.
That said, is there anything you saw in the world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns that suggested there were supernatural things going on? And to be clear, I don't mean the fact that there were "superheroes". By "supernatural" I mean magical or paranormal, like returning from the dead.
PS: I think the Joker also said he died, when he was confronting his old boss in Batman 1. But do you think he literally meant he died and came back from the dead with some kind of magic, or do you think that was the ravings of a crazy person?
I can't explicitly comment because I haven't watched Batman Returns (before my time), but I have seen clips and reviews of it. Aside from Catwoman, I'm not aware of anything literally supernatural, but villains having resuscitation powers isn't uncommon (Green Goblin came back from the dead during the Clone Saga due to the Goblin Serum - and yes, it was the real Osborn; one of Batman's villains, Soloman Grundy, is literally a zombie, etc.) so I'd say a character having nine lives isn't necessarily indicative of magic or paranormal activity. Heck, people can die in the real world and be revived, even after several hours. It is scientifically possible, especially if she was resuscitated prior to neurological atrophy (although if she wasn't, that would definitely explain her mental instability).
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Yes, he was the director. No, not all of his films have supernatural elements. Even his first Batman movie did not have anything "supernatural" in it, outside of the comic book world setting.
No, but given the film 'Catwoman' contained several similar characteristics as the Burton Catwoman (including the BS Nine Lives), it wouldn't surprise me all that much. Although, her falling into rubbish does kind of leave that possibility open, which may have been intentional.
To be clear: I'm not saying that it "impossible" that the actual story of the movie was that she came back from the dead. However, I don't think anything we saw in the movie world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns suggested there were supernatural things like that going on. And IMO, Catwoman was mentally disturbed, so what she believes to be true and what is actually true are not necessarily the same thing.
That said, is there anything you saw in the world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns that suggested there were supernatural things going on? And to be clear, I don't mean the fact that there were "superheroes". By "supernatural" I mean magical or paranormal, like returning from the dead.
PS: I think the Joker also said he died, when he was confronting his old boss in Batman 1. But do you think he literally meant he died and came back from the dead with some kind of magic, or do you think that was the ravings of a crazy person?
I can't explicitly comment because I haven't watched Batman Returns (before my time), but I have seen clips and reviews of it. Aside from Catwoman, I'm not aware of anything literally supernatural, but villains having resuscitation powers isn't uncommon (Green Goblin came back from the dead during the Clone Saga due to the Goblin Serum - and yes, it was the real Osborn; one of Batman's villains, Soloman Grundy, is literally a zombie, etc.) so I'd say a character having nine lives isn't necessarily indicative of magic or paranormal activity. Heck, people can die in the real world and be revived, even after several hours. It is scientifically possible, especially if she was resuscitated prior to neurological atrophy (although if she wasn't, that would definitely explain her mental instability).
As for the Joker, always bet on crazy person.
To be clear, I was asking about the *movie* world of Batman Returns, not the comic book world in general. As you might be aware, the Joker's origin in Burton's movie is completely different from the comic origin. Sorry if there was any confusion about what I was asking.
That said, you should definitely check out Batman Returns some time. It's great fun
Sigh, ok somewhere about midway through Batman Returns Batman threw Catwoman off of a building. The impact killed her, she revived (not survived revived) due to the moronic "mystical nine lives of the cat" BS that Burton saddled the character with
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
Yeah, But... contrast that with Penguin... Actual penguins acted very strange around him.... I think the idea was that the characters DID have some sort of supernatural powers... including Batman.
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Yes, he was the director. No, not all of his films have supernatural elements. Even his first Batman movie did not have anything "supernatural" in it, outside of the comic book world setting.
No, but given the film 'Catwoman' contained several similar characteristics as the Burton Catwoman (including the BS Nine Lives), it wouldn't surprise me all that much. Although, her falling into rubbish does kind of leave that possibility open, which may have been intentional.
To be clear: I'm not saying that it "impossible" that the actual story of the movie was that she came back from the dead. However, I don't think anything we saw in the movie world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns suggested there were supernatural things like that going on. And IMO, Catwoman was mentally disturbed, so what she believes to be true and what is actually true are not necessarily the same thing.
That said, is there anything you saw in the world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns that suggested there were supernatural things going on? And to be clear, I don't mean the fact that there were "superheroes". By "supernatural" I mean magical or paranormal, like returning from the dead.
PS: I think the Joker also said he died, when he was confronting his old boss in Batman 1. But do you think he literally meant he died and came back from the dead with some kind of magic, or do you think that was the ravings of a crazy person?
I can't explicitly comment because I haven't watched Batman Returns (before my time), but I have seen clips and reviews of it. Aside from Catwoman, I'm not aware of anything literally supernatural, but villains having resuscitation powers isn't uncommon (Green Goblin came back from the dead during the Clone Saga due to the Goblin Serum - and yes, it was the real Osborn; one of Batman's villains, Soloman Grundy, is literally a zombie, etc.) so I'd say a character having nine lives isn't necessarily indicative of magic or paranormal activity. Heck, people can die in the real world and be revived, even after several hours. It is scientifically possible, especially if she was resuscitated prior to neurological atrophy (although if she wasn't, that would definitely explain her mental instability).
As for the Joker, always bet on crazy person.
To be clear, I was asking about the *movie* world of Batman Returns, not the comic book world in general. As you might be aware, the Joker's origin in Burton's movie is completely different from the comic origin. Sorry if there was any confusion about what I was asking.
That said, you should definitely check out Batman Returns some time. It's great fun
I'm just saying, Burton could have definitely gotten away with it.
And Joker's comic book origins are basically that: origins. The writers have told dozens (including the Burton one, minus shooting Bruce's parents) but have never confirmed any. As said in 'The Killing Joke', "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice! HAHAHAHAH!"
Anyway, I'm not saying Catwoman wasn't lying out of insanity: virtually every comic book movie villain to come out of the 80s-90s was insane on some level. I was just making sure you acknowledged that it was possible (even if it is mind-numbingly stupid).
Re: Burton's Catwoman... I always took it that the actions of the cats resurrected her. However, I'm less than sold on the nine lives idea... When she goes off the roof, she clearly says "Saved by kitty-litter..." That suggests that she didn't actually 'lose a life' in that instance... When she took out Shrek at the end, yes, he shot her a few times, but, it's open to suggestion that the injuries were not fatal, although certainly affected her, as when she kept coming for him, she was clearly inconvenienced by the wounds, rather than actually dying and using up a life... Immortality's a funny game, and the rules can be different, but with regards the roof incident, I'd say the evidence is that it wasn't a fatal fall, so shouldn't have counted as a 'lost life'... IMHO...
Comments
I think the "confusion" comes from your exaggeration. You called him a "crazed killing machine", when he did not even kill the majority of the people he fought in the movie. So to hopefully clear up any confusion, here is a question:
If you admit Batman does kill sometimes, and the Batman in this movie does not kill the majority of the people he fights, in what *specific* way(s) do you think this Batman significantly differs from the comic version?
It is also worth noting that some comics are more violent than others. Even comics about the *same* character. One writer may portray that character more violently than the next writer after them, but they are still the same character. This movie portrays Batman more violently than some have, but not out of line with how some writers have written the character many times.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Allow me to refresh your memory. You said...
And then @azrael605 said...
As you can see, he was clearly responding to your exaggeration, not simply whether Batman killed or not.
And then, your response...
And then my response...
So yes, I do think your exaggeration is what led to the "confusion" above with @azrael605, not simply the issue of whether Batman killed or not.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Whatever you want to call it, you can clearly see from that conversation chain that that phrase was where the confusion with @azrael605 was coming from.
Also, here is a question: in what way do you think someone who does not kill the majority of the people they fight is a "crazed killing machine" if it was not meant as an exaggeration?
To be clear: I understand that that is your opinion, but I actually want to understand your reasoning.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
hʌɪˈpəːbəli
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
Right, I'm 100% on the same page with you there. But Valoreah said that was *not* the case:
So he did *not* mean it as hyperbole/exaggeration. That being the case, I'm interested in hearing his reasoning.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Rather than reading into it, which may lead to more misunderstanding, I want to actually know what *you* mean. You said were not exaggerating, so that's fine. That being the case, in what way do you think a Batman who does not even kill the majority of the people he fights is a "crazed killing machine"? That seemed like an exaggeration, but since you are saying it is not, I'm interested in your reasoning.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
You do realize that just because a character says something does not mean it is actually "true" in the story, right? Sure, she claims she "died" and was revived by magical cat powers, but I don't think Burton actually intended that to be the case. Her character was pretty unstable, mentally. Just because she said something doesn't mean it reflected reality.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Unfortunately, Valoreah does not seem to want to explain what he means. He said he was *not* exaggerating, so he must have some specific reason he would call a Batman that does not kill the majority of the people he fights a "crazed killing machine". But oddly, he doesn't seem to want to share what that reason is. It's no wonder people get confused in a situation like that.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Good find, I forgot about that scene. Batman may not have 'intended' to kill her but that was the ultimate result.
My character Tsin'xing
I do get your point. Although, IMO, the penguins in question were supposed to be trained penguins, and seemed to view him as the alpha male. I'm not sure that is "supernatural" in nature, but it's definitely comic book land. That said, I'm not sure that is on the same level of fiction as a character supposedly coming back from the dead because of cat magic. But it's all fiction, so.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm just checking, was Tim Burton still director for the film with Catwomen? Because if so, that definitely suggests that Catwomen was in possession of nine lives. This is the same individual who is renowned for his crazy and whacky films, remember.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Yes, he was the director. No, not all of his films have supernatural elements. Even his first Batman movie did not have anything "supernatural" in it, outside of the comic book world setting.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
No, but given the film 'Catwoman' contained several similar characteristics as the Burton Catwoman (including the BS Nine Lives), it wouldn't surprise me all that much. Although, her falling into rubbish does kind of leave that possibility open, which may have been intentional.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
To be clear: I'm not saying that it "impossible" that the actual story of the movie was that she came back from the dead. However, I don't think anything we saw in the movie world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns suggested there were supernatural things like that going on. And IMO, Catwoman was mentally disturbed, so what she believes to be true and what is actually true are not necessarily the same thing.
That said, is there anything you saw in the world of Batman 1 or Batman Returns that suggested there were supernatural things going on? And to be clear, I don't mean the fact that there were "superheroes". By "supernatural" I mean magical or paranormal, like returning from the dead.
PS: I think the Joker also said he died, when he was confronting his old boss in Batman 1. But do you think he literally meant he died and came back from the dead with some kind of magic, or do you think that was the ravings of a crazy person?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I can't explicitly comment because I haven't watched Batman Returns (before my time), but I have seen clips and reviews of it. Aside from Catwoman, I'm not aware of anything literally supernatural, but villains having resuscitation powers isn't uncommon (Green Goblin came back from the dead during the Clone Saga due to the Goblin Serum - and yes, it was the real Osborn; one of Batman's villains, Soloman Grundy, is literally a zombie, etc.) so I'd say a character having nine lives isn't necessarily indicative of magic or paranormal activity. Heck, people can die in the real world and be revived, even after several hours. It is scientifically possible, especially if she was resuscitated prior to neurological atrophy (although if she wasn't, that would definitely explain her mental instability).
As for the Joker, always bet on crazy person.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
To be clear, I was asking about the *movie* world of Batman Returns, not the comic book world in general. As you might be aware, the Joker's origin in Burton's movie is completely different from the comic origin. Sorry if there was any confusion about what I was asking.
That said, you should definitely check out Batman Returns some time. It's great fun
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm just saying, Burton could have definitely gotten away with it.
And Joker's comic book origins are basically that: origins. The writers have told dozens (including the Burton one, minus shooting Bruce's parents) but have never confirmed any. As said in 'The Killing Joke', "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice! HAHAHAHAH!"
Anyway, I'm not saying Catwoman wasn't lying out of insanity: virtually every comic book movie villain to come out of the 80s-90s was insane on some level. I was just making sure you acknowledged that it was possible (even if it is mind-numbingly stupid).
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
But I suspect the writers left it intentionally vague simply because it wasn't the focus of the story.
My character Tsin'xing