Thanks for the update, @borticuscryptic . Will traits like Weapon System Synergy & Self-Modulating Shots/Fire be altered to reflect this? Is it safe to assume that this is the reverse of the Shield Hardness skills numerically?
Of course, catering to my niche, will Kinetics see the same formula of 75% of damage is ignored & 25% of damage is then checked against shield resistances? Just want to have everything clarified for when people ask Q's.
Hah you beat me to seeing it... ima dust off my engineers now and level them up...
If all the shield pen stuff is changed to reflect the change to the skill, I may actually be able to bring out my shield tank again. My first ever tank in my Nebula. Good times...
Hah you beat me to seeing it... ima dust off my engineers now and level them up...
If all the shield pen stuff is changed to reflect the change to the skill, I may actually be able to bring out my shield tank again. My first ever tank in my Nebula. Good times...
That is good news for you (seriously, it solves one glaring issue), but it also puts those who use Kinetics as a primary weapon in a bad state; we were working these procs in to bypass shield mechanics that crippled these builds. If the proc mechanic for Weapon System Synergy remains as-is, that's no longer useful in any game combat scenario existing now (PvE or PvP). Self-Modulating Shots/Fire should be OK, as its proc mechanic doesn't involve a large investment for it to work.
Looking at the bigger picture, the nerf (and it is a nerf) to Quantum Phase & Neutronic torpedo in the Spread firing mode (There is a significant loss of damage even when you have all eligible targets within a 2km radius from the main target), combined with possible extensions to torpedo immunity granted by Strategist on top of this change will serve to be a deterrent against more people wanting to hybridize their builds, let alone build Torp/Sci, Sci/Torp, or full-on Torpedo.
Is the weapon modifier [pen] being removed, or just a specific skill?
If [pen] on weapons is staying please also add [pen] to lockbox weapons and give players the ability to modify their existing lockbox weapons to replace [crtd]x4 with [crtd]x3 [pen] or their (currently crafted-only) modifier of choice ([over], [rapid], [pvp], etc).
If the whole thing is being removed, then can you just do the above request but with [crtd]x3 [weak]?
It seems like lockbox weapons currently aren't really that popular because they don't have the crafted modifiers and they are so expensive. Will you please increase their drop rate from boxes and maybe increase the chance of getting good modifiers?
Is the weapon modifier [pen] being removed, or just a specific skill?
If [pen] on weapons is staying please also add [pen] to lockbox weapons and give players the ability to modify their existing lockbox weapons to replace [crtd]x4 with [crtd]x3 [pen] or their (currently crafted-only) modifier of choice ([over], [rapid], [pvp], etc).
If the whole thing is being removed, then can you just do the above request but with [crtd]x3 [weak]?
It seems like lockbox weapons currently aren't really that popular because they don't have the crafted modifiers and they are so expensive. Will you please increase their drop rate from boxes and maybe increase the chance of getting good modifiers?
Just some requests I wanted to add, thanks.
The current pen mod shouldn't be affected, as that deals with hull damage resistance. This change to the skill involves shield penetration.
Hah you beat me to seeing it... ima dust off my engineers now and level them up...
If all the shield pen stuff is changed to reflect the change to the skill, I may actually be able to bring out my shield tank again. My first ever tank in my Nebula. Good times...
That is good news for you (seriously, it solves one glaring issue), but it also puts those who use Kinetics as a primary weapon in a bad state; we were working these procs in to bypass shield mechanics that crippled these builds. If the proc mechanic for Weapon System Synergy remains as-is, that's no longer useful in any game combat scenario existing now (PvE or PvP). Self-Modulating Shots/Fire should be OK, as its proc mechanic doesn't involve a large investment for it to work.
Looking at the bigger picture, the nerf (and it is a nerf) to Quantum Phase & Neutronic torpedo in the Spread firing mode (There is a significant loss of damage even when you have all eligible targets within a 2km radius from the main target), combined with possible extensions to torpedo immunity granted by Strategist on top of this change will serve to be a deterrent against more people wanting to hybridize their builds, let alone build Torp/Sci, Sci/Torp, or full-on Torpedo.
I see where you're coming from, as I remember what the few torp boats there were pre-DR were like. It was pretty much impossible for torpedo boats to get through the shields of a recluse tank build back then and that would be stupid if that happened now. I am also 100% against immunities and adding more to the game.
The only way I see shield tanks AND torpedo boats remaining viable is if there is a specific proc added for torpedo users (let's say a trait or something) that increases torpedo damage to shields but let it be counterable by shield tanks or anyone investing heavily in shields. Either this or just decrease shields base damage resistance to kinetics, which wouldn't be so hot for shield tanks but I don't see many options here.
Hey guys, just wanted to pop in and say that we're hearing the feedback on this topic.
As a partial fix (or at least deferment) of the issue, as it relates to the Skill Revamp, we've decided to make the following change:
The "Shield Penetration" Skill is being removed, and replaced with a "Shield Weakening" Skill.
* This Skill, instead of ignoring Shields entirely, amplifies the damage dealt to enemy Shields when they prevent damage from reaching the Hull.
* This Skill is directly countered by Shield Hardness - they are the exact same mechanic, applied in opposite directions.
* The few other sources of Shield Pen (Inspirational Leader and Fleet Tactical Boosts) have also been updated to give this new Skill.
We're going to continue to monitor the issue as it applies to other existing sources of Shield Penetration. But at least for the time being, we didn't want to exacerbate the issue, or draw a spotlight on it by including it as a Skill mechanic.
So, anything that is already in the game that adds directly to shield penetration (not the skill, but raw penetration) will be unchanged. Existing builds remain as they were before. But you won't be able to stack more shield penetration using the new skill system.
(TLDR: Beam overload doffs, intense focus, self-modulating fire, weapon system synergy, kinetic precision, etc. are all unchanged and will continue to buff shield penetration.)
So, anything that is already in the game that adds directly to shield penetration (not the skill, but raw penetration) will be unchanged. Existing builds remain as they were before. But you won't be able to stack more shield penetration using the new skill system.
(TLDR: Beam overload doffs, intense focus, self-modulating fire, weapon system synergy, kinetic precision, etc. are all unchanged and will continue to buff shield penetration.)
Yes. For now we're not ready to make any further changes to existing Shield Penetration abilities. The aforementioned change is limited strictly to the Skill System.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Hah you beat me to seeing it... ima dust off my engineers now and level them up...
If all the shield pen stuff is changed to reflect the change to the skill, I may actually be able to bring out my shield tank again. My first ever tank in my Nebula. Good times...
That is good news for you (seriously, it solves one glaring issue), but it also puts those who use Kinetics as a primary weapon in a bad state; we were working these procs in to bypass shield mechanics that crippled these builds. If the proc mechanic for Weapon System Synergy remains as-is, that's no longer useful in any game combat scenario existing now (PvE or PvP). Self-Modulating Shots/Fire should be OK, as its proc mechanic doesn't involve a large investment for it to work.
Looking at the bigger picture, the nerf (and it is a nerf) to Quantum Phase & Neutronic torpedo in the Spread firing mode (There is a significant loss of damage even when you have all eligible targets within a 2km radius from the main target), combined with possible extensions to torpedo immunity granted by Strategist on top of this change will serve to be a deterrent against more people wanting to hybridize their builds, let alone build Torp/Sci, Sci/Torp, or full-on Torpedo.
I see where you're coming from, as I remember what the few torp boats there were pre-DR were like. It was pretty much impossible for torpedo boats to get through the shields of a recluse tank build back then and that would be stupid if that happened now. I am also 100% against immunities and adding more to the game.
The only way I see shield tanks AND torpedo boats remaining viable is if there is a specific proc added for torpedo users (let's say a trait or something) that increases torpedo damage to shields but let it be counterable by shield tanks or anyone investing heavily in shields. Either this or just decrease shields base damage resistance to kinetics, which wouldn't be so hot for shield tanks but I don't see many options here.
After reading @borticuscryptic response, I breathe both a sigh of relief and am aslo concerned for your plight as well, since those are the major mechanics that bypass shield hardness if one doesn't want to use plasma explosions. It'll be too late for *S11.5 to have an idea fiesta and a complete revamp for a balance pass between having shield defenses vs torpedoes being effective in PvE & PvP environments.
...will Kinetics see the same formula of 75% of damage is ignored & 25% of damage is then checked against shield resistances?
We've no immediate plans to alter this behavior.
If you ever start looking into this, please try to find a solution that does not require speciality torpedoes. The way I see it, torpedo builds need to rely on reputation or set torpedoes with special procs, like Neutronic Torpedo, Quantum Phase Torpedo or Particle Emission Torpedo. It would be nice if "regular" torpedoes would also get some improvements, like maybe a new modifier or trait/skill that provides help for all of them.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
So if you can still get shield pen up around 100% using existing traits/ beam overload doffs, and completely bypass shields, why invest in a skill that will only weaken shields?
So if you can still get shield pen up around 100% using existing traits/ beam overload doffs, and completely bypass shields, why invest in a skill that will only weaken shields?
Cuz its very useful for torpedo/sci Sci/torpedo users
So if you can still get shield pen up around 100% using existing traits/ beam overload doffs, and completely bypass shields, why invest in a skill that will only weaken shields?
Cuz its very useful for torpedo/sci Sci/torpedo users
Expanding a bit more on this:
Weapon System Synergy - Description says 10 stacks are needed in order to gain the +25% Cat1 torp bonus and 50% shieldPen for 10 seconds. You gain a stack per firing cycle per energy weapon. It takes nearly an 'eternity' to do so on Torpedo-heavy loadouts. It (like T1 Command) was meant for energy builds that wanted to slot at least one torpedo (Canon builds come to mind). Torp, Sci/Torp ships try to shoe-horn this into the build w/ varying degrees of success (depending on ship, firing cycle, and if it bugs out like it's doing on Holodeck [again], either needing 11 stacks to activate, or dropping stacks even when energy weapons are still firing.). It also still doesn't work w/ "heavies" except for HY EBM torp.
So, you have to get 10 (or 11) energy weapon firing cycles to get 10 seconds of the proc, and then it has a 20 second lockout period before you can build stacks again, and it works only with salvo torps or EBM. With the pace of combat these days, you need a target-rich environment where targets stay up long enough to proc WSS, but also stay alive long enough for your shot(s) to count. This is why I liked the pre-nerfed HSE; plenty of high HP, high resists, target-rich environment w/ no constant breaks in combat. You're always building stacks, even when some fall off for an arbitrary reason, you swap targets and build up quickly again.
Self-Modulating Fire - On outgoing crit hit, gain 50% shieldPen for 10 sec w/ 45 sec lockout. Works as advertised. Very straight forward. One of two guaranteed shieldPen options.
Kinetic Precision - Projectile R&D 15. +10% shieldPen. Always on. Very straight forward. The second guaranteed shieldPen option.
Beam Overload DOffs - At VR quality, IIRC, 30% chance to get 35% shieldPen on BO firing. (Oddly, the Experimental Proton Weapon does NOT work with this, because *I THINK* the DOffs check to see if the weapon is a beam first. Since the ExPrWeap is classified as a cannon, it doesn't pass the DOffs check.) You invest in 3 DOffs and you roll the dice.... a lot. You are limited to how many BO's you can fire per engagement. [Over] mods do trigger the DOffs, but you'll need to run more energy weapons to have a greater chance of triggering them. [Over] also causes a brief lockout on Beam Overload.
Intense Focus - 1.5% shieldPen gained every 15 sec in combat, Max 4 stacks. You need a full minute of combat (re Red Alert) to gain 6% shieldPen and maintain the stacks. With the new traits introduction, this quickly fell out of favor with me.
So, for a torp boat (not the Swedish houses), you have 1 always on +10% shieldPen, 1 guaranteed 50% shieldPen for 10 sec out of 55 sec AFTER a crit, and 3 very conditional shiledPen options.
Unless you have a better option, Sci/Torp & especially Torp Capt's will pick Shield Weakening.
...will Kinetics see the same formula of 75% of damage is ignored & 25% of damage is then checked against shield resistances?
We've no immediate plans to alter this behavior.
This new Shield Weakening skill will, however, allow you to amplify the damage dealt by that 25% that does not get absorbed/negated by shields.
Quick question on this...
Lets say a shield is down and you fire a high yield torpedo. But in the travel time to target the shield regen ticks up and gives the shield 100 hit points..
The shield has a hardness factor of 75% but gets lowered to 50% because of shield weakening and the hull has 10 resist.
IF the torpedo has a potential damage of 10,000 , without that 100 points of shield the damage to the hull would be 9000 (10% armor)
With the 100 points of shield will still the 75% be lopped off the top of the torpedo?
IE will the damage end up being:
10,000 * .25 Kinetic shield resist =2500
*.9 shields and *.1 Bleedthrough = 2250 shield + 250 hull
*.5 Shield resist = 1125 shield +250 hull
Spilling over all damage above shield life = 100 shield + 1275 hull
Adjusted for hull resist = 100 shield + 1147 Hull
So... would that 100 points of shield lower the damage of a 10,000 point torpedo from 9000 hull damage to 100 shield damage and 1147 hull damage?
Damage Overflow from Shields to Hull
Sometimes more damage goes to your shields then they can take.
Here it might seem a bit complicated. Only the damage your shields can actually take is affected by shield hardness. The remainder goes to your hull.
That means the 75 % kinetic resist will not apply to most of the damage, since the shields cannot compensate it.
You might be better off calculating the hardness and kinetic resistance of shields as multiplier to the effect shield points. Subtract those points from the damage, anything that is still left goes to the hull.
10,000 damage go in.
1,000 become bleedthrough and ignore shield hardness and kinetic resists anyway.
9,000 would go to shields.
You have only 100 shields, however. The Kinetic resist is effectively a x4 multiplier to your shields for this calculation, and the 0.5 hardness is a x2 multiplier. SO you have 100 * 2 * 4 = 800 effective shields. That leaves 8,200 remaining that your shields cannot compensate for.
Total damage to hull: 9,200 damage.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Damage Overflow from Shields to Hull
Sometimes more damage goes to your shields then they can take.
Here it might seem a bit complicated. Only the damage your shields can actually take is affected by shield hardness. The remainder goes to your hull.
That means the 75 % kinetic resist will not apply to most of the damage, since the shields cannot compensate it.
You might be better off calculating the hardness and kinetic resistance of shields as multiplier to the effect shield points. Subtract those points from the damage, anything that is still left goes to the hull.
10,000 damage go in.
1,000 become bleedthrough and ignore shield hardness and kinetic resists anyway.
9,000 would go to shields.
You have only 100 shields, however. The Kinetic resist is effectively a x4 multiplier to your shields for this calculation, and the 0.5 hardness is a x2 multiplier. SO you have 100 * 2 * 4 = 800 effective shields. That leaves 8,200 remaining that your shields cannot compensate for.
Total damage to hull: 9,200 damage.
I need to look at this further and go back to a few logs where I know this scenario actually took place. I'm trying to remember if the 75% kinetic damage ignore comes into play before calculations (which I think it does, but I am not sure.).
Did he finally go and "fix" them? Frankly, I don't get why the shield drain needed to get "fixed" on the QPT or why the Neutronic's drain couldn't get a boost when using any TS. Doesn't do overly well in PvE unless you sacrifice all your DPS to hike drain, and in PvP escorts fly around with their shields down and you still can't blow them up.
Looking at the bigger picture, the nerf (and it is a nerf) to Quantum Phase & Neutronic torpedo in the Spread firing mode (There is a significant loss of damage even when you have all eligible targets within a 2km radius from the main target), combined with possible extensions to torpedo immunity granted by Strategist on top of this change will serve to be a deterrent against more people wanting to hybridize their builds, let alone build Torp/Sci, Sci/Torp, or full-on Torpedo.
Did he finally go and "fix" them? Frankly, I don't get why the shield drain needed to get "fixed" on the QPT or why the Neutronic's drain couldn't get a boost when using any TS. Doesn't do overly well in PvE unless you sacrifice all your DPS to hike drain, and in PvP escorts fly around with their shields down and you still can't blow them up.
I have two questions here:
Why is this quote attributed to Borticus? As far as I can tell, that is from @darkknightucf, and not a member of the Cryptic team.
Are there significant changes to Neutronic Torpedo or Quantum Phase on the current state of Tribble vs the current state of Holodeck, or is this in reference to the changes several months ago? While I am seeing that Neutronic and Quantum Phase, normally and under Spread, are performing slightly better on Tribble than their current Holodeck state (due to 100 vs 99 skill points values), if you are seeing something different that may be indicative of an issue that we need to address.
Looking at the bigger picture, the nerf (and it is a nerf) to Quantum Phase & Neutronic torpedo in the Spread firing mode (There is a significant loss of damage even when you have all eligible targets within a 2km radius from the main target), combined with possible extensions to torpedo immunity granted by Strategist on top of this change will serve to be a deterrent against more people wanting to hybridize their builds, let alone build Torp/Sci, Sci/Torp, or full-on Torpedo.
Did he finally go and "fix" them? Frankly, I don't get why the shield drain needed to get "fixed" on the QPT or why the Neutronic's drain couldn't get a boost when using any TS. Doesn't do overly well in PvE unless you sacrifice all your DPS to hike drain, and in PvP escorts fly around with their shields down and you still can't blow them up.
I have two questions here:
Why is this quote attributed to Borticus? As far as I can tell, that is from @darkknightucf, and not a member of the Cryptic team.
Are there significant changes to Neutronic Torpedo or Quantum Phase on the current state of Tribble vs the current state of Holodeck, or is this in reference to the changes several months ago? While I am seeing that Neutronic and Quantum Phase, normally and under Spread, are performing slightly better on Tribble than their current Holodeck state (due to 100 vs 99 skill points values), if you are seeing something different that may be indicative of an issue that we need to address.
Not sure why it was attributed to Borticus.. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a Developer! (There's an inside joke to this).
As to what you brought up, @crypticspartan#0627 this is in reference to the changes made a few months ago to the secondary procs for Quantum Phase and Neutronic for SECONDARY targets. I used the following scenario to set the stage: What if plasma explosions only worked on your main target.
I understand the reason that was given for this change for those two abilities, but couldn't they be changed to work on the secondary target without the AoE being applied to the secondary target, just only the primary?
Not sure why it was attributed to Borticus.. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a Developer! (There's an inside joke to this).
As to what you brought up, @crypticspartan#0627 this is in reference to the changes made a few months ago to the secondary procs for Quantum Phase and Neutronic for SECONDARY targets. I used the following scenario to set the stage: What if plasma explosions only worked on your main target.
I understand the reason that was given for this change for those two abilities, but couldn't they be changed to work on the secondary target without the AoE being applied to the secondary target, just only the primary?
Sorry, my bad. Damn quoting mess I manually edit but ends up badly sometimes. Anyway, they haven't been fully nerfed, believe me. They're still working on it since they still don't behave like they would like them to on the proc side.
Comments
Of course, catering to my niche, will Kinetics see the same formula of 75% of damage is ignored & 25% of damage is then checked against shield resistances? Just want to have everything clarified for when people ask Q's.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Hah you beat me to seeing it... ima dust off my engineers now and level them up...
If all the shield pen stuff is changed to reflect the change to the skill, I may actually be able to bring out my shield tank again. My first ever tank in my Nebula. Good times...
That is good news for you (seriously, it solves one glaring issue), but it also puts those who use Kinetics as a primary weapon in a bad state; we were working these procs in to bypass shield mechanics that crippled these builds. If the proc mechanic for Weapon System Synergy remains as-is, that's no longer useful in any game combat scenario existing now (PvE or PvP). Self-Modulating Shots/Fire should be OK, as its proc mechanic doesn't involve a large investment for it to work.
Looking at the bigger picture, the nerf (and it is a nerf) to Quantum Phase & Neutronic torpedo in the Spread firing mode (There is a significant loss of damage even when you have all eligible targets within a 2km radius from the main target), combined with possible extensions to torpedo immunity granted by Strategist on top of this change will serve to be a deterrent against more people wanting to hybridize their builds, let alone build Torp/Sci, Sci/Torp, or full-on Torpedo.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
If [pen] on weapons is staying please also add [pen] to lockbox weapons and give players the ability to modify their existing lockbox weapons to replace [crtd]x4 with [crtd]x3 [pen] or their (currently crafted-only) modifier of choice ([over], [rapid], [pvp], etc).
If the whole thing is being removed, then can you just do the above request but with [crtd]x3 [weak]?
It seems like lockbox weapons currently aren't really that popular because they don't have the crafted modifiers and they are so expensive. Will you please increase their drop rate from boxes and maybe increase the chance of getting good modifiers?
Just some requests I wanted to add, thanks.
The current pen mod shouldn't be affected, as that deals with hull damage resistance. This change to the skill involves shield penetration.
I see where you're coming from, as I remember what the few torp boats there were pre-DR were like. It was pretty much impossible for torpedo boats to get through the shields of a recluse tank build back then and that would be stupid if that happened now. I am also 100% against immunities and adding more to the game.
The only way I see shield tanks AND torpedo boats remaining viable is if there is a specific proc added for torpedo users (let's say a trait or something) that increases torpedo damage to shields but let it be counterable by shield tanks or anyone investing heavily in shields. Either this or just decrease shields base damage resistance to kinetics, which wouldn't be so hot for shield tanks but I don't see many options here.
So, anything that is already in the game that adds directly to shield penetration (not the skill, but raw penetration) will be unchanged. Existing builds remain as they were before. But you won't be able to stack more shield penetration using the new skill system.
(TLDR: Beam overload doffs, intense focus, self-modulating fire, weapon system synergy, kinetic precision, etc. are all unchanged and will continue to buff shield penetration.)
Yes. For now we're not ready to make any further changes to existing Shield Penetration abilities. The aforementioned change is limited strictly to the Skill System.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
We've no immediate plans to alter this behavior.
This new Shield Weakening skill will, however, allow you to amplify the damage dealt by that 25% that does not get absorbed/negated by shields.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
#BorticusRocks
Thanks! That is all.
Remember this, when I have to come back and nerf your toys.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
After reading @borticuscryptic response, I breathe both a sigh of relief and am aslo concerned for your plight as well, since those are the major mechanics that bypass shield hardness if one doesn't want to use plasma explosions. It'll be too late for *S11.5 to have an idea fiesta and a complete revamp for a balance pass between having shield defenses vs torpedoes being effective in PvE & PvP environments.
EDIT: Multitasking fail.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Cuz its very useful for torpedo/sci Sci/torpedo users
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Expanding a bit more on this:
Weapon System Synergy - Description says 10 stacks are needed in order to gain the +25% Cat1 torp bonus and 50% shieldPen for 10 seconds. You gain a stack per firing cycle per energy weapon. It takes nearly an 'eternity' to do so on Torpedo-heavy loadouts. It (like T1 Command) was meant for energy builds that wanted to slot at least one torpedo (Canon builds come to mind). Torp, Sci/Torp ships try to shoe-horn this into the build w/ varying degrees of success (depending on ship, firing cycle, and if it bugs out like it's doing on Holodeck [again], either needing 11 stacks to activate, or dropping stacks even when energy weapons are still firing.). It also still doesn't work w/ "heavies" except for HY EBM torp.
So, you have to get 10 (or 11) energy weapon firing cycles to get 10 seconds of the proc, and then it has a 20 second lockout period before you can build stacks again, and it works only with salvo torps or EBM. With the pace of combat these days, you need a target-rich environment where targets stay up long enough to proc WSS, but also stay alive long enough for your shot(s) to count. This is why I liked the pre-nerfed HSE; plenty of high HP, high resists, target-rich environment w/ no constant breaks in combat. You're always building stacks, even when some fall off for an arbitrary reason, you swap targets and build up quickly again.
Self-Modulating Fire - On outgoing crit hit, gain 50% shieldPen for 10 sec w/ 45 sec lockout. Works as advertised. Very straight forward. One of two guaranteed shieldPen options.
Kinetic Precision - Projectile R&D 15. +10% shieldPen. Always on. Very straight forward. The second guaranteed shieldPen option.
Beam Overload DOffs - At VR quality, IIRC, 30% chance to get 35% shieldPen on BO firing. (Oddly, the Experimental Proton Weapon does NOT work with this, because *I THINK* the DOffs check to see if the weapon is a beam first. Since the ExPrWeap is classified as a cannon, it doesn't pass the DOffs check.) You invest in 3 DOffs and you roll the dice.... a lot. You are limited to how many BO's you can fire per engagement. [Over] mods do trigger the DOffs, but you'll need to run more energy weapons to have a greater chance of triggering them. [Over] also causes a brief lockout on Beam Overload.
Intense Focus - 1.5% shieldPen gained every 15 sec in combat, Max 4 stacks. You need a full minute of combat (re Red Alert) to gain 6% shieldPen and maintain the stacks. With the new traits introduction, this quickly fell out of favor with me.
So, for a torp boat (not the Swedish houses), you have 1 always on +10% shieldPen, 1 guaranteed 50% shieldPen for 10 sec out of 55 sec AFTER a crit, and 3 very conditional shiledPen options.
Unless you have a better option, Sci/Torp & especially Torp Capt's will pick Shield Weakening.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Quick question on this...
Lets say a shield is down and you fire a high yield torpedo. But in the travel time to target the shield regen ticks up and gives the shield 100 hit points..
The shield has a hardness factor of 75% but gets lowered to 50% because of shield weakening and the hull has 10 resist.
IF the torpedo has a potential damage of 10,000 , without that 100 points of shield the damage to the hull would be 9000 (10% armor)
With the 100 points of shield will still the 75% be lopped off the top of the torpedo?
IE will the damage end up being:
10,000 * .25 Kinetic shield resist =2500
*.9 shields and *.1 Bleedthrough = 2250 shield + 250 hull
*.5 Shield resist = 1125 shield +250 hull
Spilling over all damage above shield life = 100 shield + 1275 hull
Adjusted for hull resist = 100 shield + 1147 Hull
So... would that 100 points of shield lower the damage of a 10,000 point torpedo from 9000 hull damage to 100 shield damage and 1147 hull damage?
Or 100 points of shield saved 7853 hull damage?
Or am I misunderstanding this completely?
Read this:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1213664/shield-hardness-bleedthrough-absorption-resilient-shield-shield-penetration-and-you
That means the 75 % kinetic resist will not apply to most of the damage, since the shields cannot compensate it.
You might be better off calculating the hardness and kinetic resistance of shields as multiplier to the effect shield points. Subtract those points from the damage, anything that is still left goes to the hull.
10,000 damage go in.
1,000 become bleedthrough and ignore shield hardness and kinetic resists anyway.
9,000 would go to shields.
You have only 100 shields, however. The Kinetic resist is effectively a x4 multiplier to your shields for this calculation, and the 0.5 hardness is a x2 multiplier. SO you have 100 * 2 * 4 = 800 effective shields. That leaves 8,200 remaining that your shields cannot compensate for.
Total damage to hull: 9,200 damage.
So shield weakening helps torps quite a bit when enemy shields are low.
This is a big turn of events.... I like it.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I need to look at this further and go back to a few logs where I know this scenario actually took place. I'm trying to remember if the 75% kinetic damage ignore comes into play before calculations (which I think it does, but I am not sure.).
I'll be back later.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Did he finally go and "fix" them? Frankly, I don't get why the shield drain needed to get "fixed" on the QPT or why the Neutronic's drain couldn't get a boost when using any TS. Doesn't do overly well in PvE unless you sacrifice all your DPS to hike drain, and in PvP escorts fly around with their shields down and you still can't blow them up.
I have two questions here:
Why is this quote attributed to Borticus? As far as I can tell, that is from @darkknightucf, and not a member of the Cryptic team.
Are there significant changes to Neutronic Torpedo or Quantum Phase on the current state of Tribble vs the current state of Holodeck, or is this in reference to the changes several months ago? While I am seeing that Neutronic and Quantum Phase, normally and under Spread, are performing slightly better on Tribble than their current Holodeck state (due to 100 vs 99 skill points values), if you are seeing something different that may be indicative of an issue that we need to address.
Not sure why it was attributed to Borticus.. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a Developer! (There's an inside joke to this).
As to what you brought up, @crypticspartan#0627 this is in reference to the changes made a few months ago to the secondary procs for Quantum Phase and Neutronic for SECONDARY targets. I used the following scenario to set the stage: What if plasma explosions only worked on your main target.
I understand the reason that was given for this change for those two abilities, but couldn't they be changed to work on the secondary target without the AoE being applied to the secondary target, just only the primary?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Sorry, my bad. Damn quoting mess I manually edit but ends up badly sometimes. Anyway, they haven't been fully nerfed, believe me. They're still working on it since they still don't behave like they would like them to on the proc side.