"You can counter 100% shield pen by hull tanking."
This is EXACTLY what we are talking about. How do you make shields useful? by NOT putting points into them and instead going into heavy hull and hull healing. Hope that the other guy wasted his points on shields that will have 0 effect.
IE don't fall for the TRAP of shield skills that become useless in PVP.
The new skill system has 2 effects:
1. Makes half the science tree about shields and
2. Gives everyone who wants it 10% MORE shield pen, cheaply.
I thought the point of the skill revamp was to avoid creating traps, not make half of one entire line a trap.
In PVP you can survive ONLY by being a massive hull tank and then hoping that you don't have multiple people firing at your in a coordinated fashion.
Shields UP!... Why bother.
They are looking for feedback on Tribble. Tribble has these two affects that make an already serious problem, more wide spread and easier by adding an almost free 10% shield pen to stack on top of rep traits and re-sequencer traits. It also re-focuses science points into shields, making a bigger trap to land in. That you "counter" this by hull tanking is proving the point exactly. Shields are a useless waste in high level PVP. Unless you are trying to say that "Shields should be useless" in which case I respectfully disagree with you.
Shield pen is out of control to the point of making them a laughable defense. Cap it, or make it something that can be resisted or put a warning label on the shield skills "these wont help you at all in pvp against any serious player."
Hard to believe the Devs didn't see this "100% Shield Penetration" thing coming from a mile away. Weird.
You know it is interesting that Hull damage in the game does not scale to the amount of shields you have left.
Because on TV and the movies: as the shields lose their strength, the more damage gets through to hit the hull, too. And they lose their shields first...and they try so hard to keep them at full strength.
I don't think writers and directors have heard of Hull Damage Resistance or Hull Plating.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
100% shieldPen happens. Plasma Explosions (formerly the Embassy Plasma DoT) is direct to hull damage. No shield hardness or anti-shield penetration will ever solve that...
Hmmmmm...are you implying there needs to be immunity that gives out 100% damage resistance to Hull, too???
I guess, the Devs could keep piling it on. And on...
But I didn't think people were having very much fun with that. LOL!
Anyhoo...the solution to prevent 100% shield penetration would probably be a cap on it, too. Not a penetration reduction ability.
Humor me for a moment - what are the lynchpin weapons and/or abilities used in a 100% penetration alpha strike?
I've been using "transport torpedo warhead" on my intel cruiser, but I'm pretty sure that's NOT what's going on here .
I actually answered this already on page 1
" Then, there's what I outlined in this post that can be done w/o energy weapons, 4 traits, and a lot of torps, timing, and luck. Still doesn't counter immunities. "
My gut says we need all penetration turned from flat, freely stackable percentages to penetration ratings that go through our beloved caps-at-75% diminishing returns curve.
None of those elements look outrageous on their own (self modulating fire is a bit of a blunt instrument, but ok). Its the stacking that goes crazy.
Maybe these traits should simply have different stats for PvP. I dunno, it could be very difficult to actually create a meaningful "penetration stack" system in the existing system. Or there could just be a hard cap (at least in PvP?).
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Maybe these traits should simply have different stats for PvP. I dunno, it could be very difficult to actually create a meaningful "penetration stack" system in the existing system. Or there could just be a hard cap (at least in PvP?).
This has been brought up more times than I can count. We've said it a few times on The SHOW as well, and have plans to bring on some ground and space PvP'ers to give their perspectives on what would make PvP great for both casuals and pro's.
Maybe these traits should simply have different stats for PvP. I dunno, it could be very difficult to actually create a meaningful "penetration stack" system in the existing system. Or there could just be a hard cap (at least in PvP?).
A repair that only covers PvP is not viable. There is still the problem of: players using shield penetration on "Big Boss" NPC's and taking them out so quickly.
It would have to be something like a cap on shield penetration that applies across the board.
Of course, players could be more gentlemanly and allow people less "stacked up" in the gear/traits department get some hits in edgewise, too. But people prefer being the overwhelming force.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Isn't it funny how the Plasma Explosion embassy consoles are way more powerful than the Shield and Hull repairing embassy consoles? The big thing is the Plasma Explosion consoles don't have a lockout of any kind while the Hull and Shield repairing embassy consoles have a global 10 sec cooldown- meaning using 4 Hull (or shield) repairing embassy consoles won't really help the hull (or shield) repair proc on the consoles. Now obviously we can't have no lockout on the Hull/Shield repairing embassy consoles, but I think instead of a global 10 sec cooldown, maybe it could be 10 seconds for each individual console.
Now I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but what if they just modified shield hardness to also resist shield penetration. The theoretical cap for shield hardness is 75% so if a big shield tanker (or any tank build really) invested a lot into shield hardness (Elite Fleet Shield, EP2S 3, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc), they would also resist 75% of shield penetration. I dunno, I think it's a good idea. It would also help npcs resists shield penetration because even they have some shield hardness.
Isn't it funny how the Plasma Explosion embassy consoles are way more powerful than the Shield and Hull repairing embassy consoles? The big thing is the Plasma Explosion consoles don't have a lockout of any kind while the Hull and Shield repairing embassy consoles have a global 10 sec cooldown- meaning using 4 Hull (or shield) repairing embassy consoles won't really help the hull (or shield) repair proc on the consoles. Now obviously we can't have no lockout on the Hull/Shield repairing embassy consoles, but I think instead of a global 10 sec cooldown, maybe it could be 10 seconds for each individual console.
Now I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but what if they just modified shield hardness to also resist shield penetration. The theoretical cap for shield hardness is 75% so if a big shield tanker (or any tank build really) invested a lot into shield hardness (Elite Fleet Shield, EP2S 3, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc), they would also resist 75% of shield penetration. I dunno, I think it's a good idea. It would also help npcs resists shield penetration because even they have some shield hardness.
You just gave me a good idea; why can't the plasma consoles be subjected to the same rules as the other Embassy consoles? :-)
Isn't it funny how the Plasma Explosion embassy consoles are way more powerful than the Shield and Hull repairing embassy consoles? The big thing is the Plasma Explosion consoles don't have a lockout of any kind while the Hull and Shield repairing embassy consoles have a global 10 sec cooldown- meaning using 4 Hull (or shield) repairing embassy consoles won't really help the hull (or shield) repair proc on the consoles. Now obviously we can't have no lockout on the Hull/Shield repairing embassy consoles, but I think instead of a global 10 sec cooldown, maybe it could be 10 seconds for each individual console.
Now I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but what if they just modified shield hardness to also resist shield penetration. The theoretical cap for shield hardness is 75% so if a big shield tanker (or any tank build really) invested a lot into shield hardness (Elite Fleet Shield, EP2S 3, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc), they would also resist 75% of shield penetration. I dunno, I think it's a good idea. It would also help npcs resists shield penetration because even they have some shield hardness.
You just gave me a good idea; why can't the plasma consoles be subjected to the same rules as the other Embassy consoles? :-)
I've always thought the plasma explosion consoles should have a 10 second cooldown. I'd be fine if all embassy consoles had a 10 second cooldown per console. Having no cooldown is probably a bad thing (like with the current plasma explosion consoles) and having a global cooldown is also a bad thing (like with the current hull/shield repairing consoles).
Wow....this stuff is interesting but I really can't add any more to this thread.
Thanks for opening my eyes, and think about this, though. It is helping me understand the game a better. But I don't play at the same level as all you guys.
I am off to study the more basic stuffs. I am dropping off of here.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Isn't it funny how the Plasma Explosion embassy consoles are way more powerful than the Shield and Hull repairing embassy consoles? The big thing is the Plasma Explosion consoles don't have a lockout of any kind while the Hull and Shield repairing embassy consoles have a global 10 sec cooldown- meaning using 4 Hull (or shield) repairing embassy consoles won't really help the hull (or shield) repair proc on the consoles. Now obviously we can't have no lockout on the Hull/Shield repairing embassy consoles, but I think instead of a global 10 sec cooldown, maybe it could be 10 seconds for each individual console.
Now I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but what if they just modified shield hardness to also resist shield penetration. The theoretical cap for shield hardness is 75% so if a big shield tanker (or any tank build really) invested a lot into shield hardness (Elite Fleet Shield, EP2S 3, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc), they would also resist 75% of shield penetration. I dunno, I think it's a good idea. It would also help npcs resists shield penetration because even they have some shield hardness.
You just gave me a good idea; why can't the plasma consoles be subjected to the same rules as the other Embassy consoles? :-)
I've always thought the plasma explosion consoles should have a 10 second cooldown. I'd be fine if all embassy consoles had a 10 second cooldown per console. Having no cooldown is probably a bad thing (like with the current plasma explosion consoles) and having a global cooldown is also a bad thing (like with the current hull/shield repairing consoles).
You have the better idea. I say we work towards that idea. I'll be bringing it up this week.
Isn't it funny how the Plasma Explosion embassy consoles are way more powerful than the Shield and Hull repairing embassy consoles? The big thing is the Plasma Explosion consoles don't have a lockout of any kind while the Hull and Shield repairing embassy consoles have a global 10 sec cooldown- meaning using 4 Hull (or shield) repairing embassy consoles won't really help the hull (or shield) repair proc on the consoles. Now obviously we can't have no lockout on the Hull/Shield repairing embassy consoles, but I think instead of a global 10 sec cooldown, maybe it could be 10 seconds for each individual console.
Now I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but what if they just modified shield hardness to also resist shield penetration. The theoretical cap for shield hardness is 75% so if a big shield tanker (or any tank build really) invested a lot into shield hardness (Elite Fleet Shield, EP2S 3, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc), they would also resist 75% of shield penetration. I dunno, I think it's a good idea. It would also help npcs resists shield penetration because even they have some shield hardness.
You just gave me a good idea; why can't the plasma consoles be subjected to the same rules as the other Embassy consoles? :-)
I've always thought the plasma explosion consoles should have a 10 second cooldown. I'd be fine if all embassy consoles had a 10 second cooldown per console. Having no cooldown is probably a bad thing (like with the current plasma explosion consoles) and having a global cooldown is also a bad thing (like with the current hull/shield repairing consoles).
You have the better idea. I say we work towards that idea. I'll be bringing it up this week.
Thanks, yeah it's always bothered me that the plasma embassy consoles have no cooldown and the cooldown on the hull/shield embassy consoles is global.
Isn't it funny how the Plasma Explosion embassy consoles are way more powerful than the Shield and Hull repairing embassy consoles? The big thing is the Plasma Explosion consoles don't have a lockout of any kind while the Hull and Shield repairing embassy consoles have a global 10 sec cooldown- meaning using 4 Hull (or shield) repairing embassy consoles won't really help the hull (or shield) repair proc on the consoles. Now obviously we can't have no lockout on the Hull/Shield repairing embassy consoles, but I think instead of a global 10 sec cooldown, maybe it could be 10 seconds for each individual console.
Now I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but what if they just modified shield hardness to also resist shield penetration. The theoretical cap for shield hardness is 75% so if a big shield tanker (or any tank build really) invested a lot into shield hardness (Elite Fleet Shield, EP2S 3, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc), they would also resist 75% of shield penetration. I dunno, I think it's a good idea. It would also help npcs resists shield penetration because even they have some shield hardness.
You just gave me a good idea; why can't the plasma consoles be subjected to the same rules as the other Embassy consoles? :-)
Read through the thread, and I find myself needing just a bit more clarification. As I understand it, 1000 damage with an energy weapon will split 900/100 and shield hardness reduces the 1000 but maintains the proportion, e.g. 30% hardness turns the numbers into 700 split as 630/70. Similarly, anything like plasma explosions that has 100% bypass becomes 1000 to hull and is reduced only by resists on the hull, e.g. 700 damage with 30% hull plasma resist. Assuming that once you reach 100% penetration from stacked effects, any shot behaves like a plasma explosion, what's the math on intermediate values?
Say, for example, they have only self-modulating fire and you take the same 1000 damage energy weapon shot. Does it become 500 to hull and 500 to shields split as 450/50? Or do we have a ship with 75% shield hardness that has that effectively reduced to 25%, making a 225/25 split into a 675/75 split? Or a third option, does added penetration affect the 90/10 split, giving a ship with 75% hardness 250 damage split 100/150?
I'm just trying to nail down how these mechanics work in their current iteration, because the hypothetical inclusion of shield hardness into penetration reduction makes me think of something turning out like option 3, i.e. a bulk reduction by the hardness with more penetration getting a greater amount of the remainder through, at least as long as the shields are up.
Read through the thread, and I find myself needing just a bit more clarification. As I understand it, 1000 damage with an energy weapon will split 900/100 and shield hardness reduces the 1000 but maintains the proportion, e.g. 30% hardness turns the numbers into 700 split as 630/70. Similarly, anything like plasma explosions that has 100% bypass becomes 1000 to hull and is reduced only by resists on the hull, e.g. 700 damage with 30% hull plasma resist. Assuming that once you reach 100% penetration from stacked effects, any shot behaves like a plasma explosion, what's the math on intermediate values?
Say, for example, they have only self-modulating fire and you take the same 1000 damage energy weapon shot. Does it become 500 to hull and 500 to shields split as 450/50? Or do we have a ship with 75% shield hardness that has that effectively reduced to 25%, making a 225/25 split into a 675/75 split? Or a third option, does added penetration affect the 90/10 split, giving a ship with 75% hardness 250 damage split 100/150?
I'm just trying to nail down how these mechanics work in their current iteration, because the hypothetical inclusion of shield hardness into penetration reduction makes me think of something turning out like option 3, i.e. a bulk reduction by the hardness with more penetration getting a greater amount of the remainder through, at least as long as the shields are up.
There are now way too many threads on this topic that each require repeating the information, and hoping no information will get lost or distorted in the repetition..
Shield Hardness does not affect the bleedthrough damage. So 1000 damage get split 900/100, and the 900 will be lowered by shield hardness. The 100 will only be lowered by hull resistances.
And if you got resilient shield, the split is 950/50, and the 950 will be lowered by 5 % (the "Absorption" mentioned in the Resilient Shield Description), on top of any shield hardness you have.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Ok let's remove the global cooldown from the hull and shield embassy consoles then.
Why? Just because items are sold in the same location and share a similar theme, it doesn't mean they'd be balanced by making the same changes. Your logic is bad.
Hey guys, just wanted to pop in and say that we're hearing the feedback on this topic.
As a partial fix (or at least deferment) of the issue, as it relates to the Skill Revamp, we've decided to make the following change:
The "Shield Penetration" Skill is being removed, and replaced with a "Shield Weakening" Skill.
* This Skill, instead of ignoring Shields entirely, amplifies the damage dealt to enemy Shields when they prevent damage from reaching the Hull.
* This Skill is directly countered by Shield Hardness - they are the exact same mechanic, applied in opposite directions.
* The few other sources of Shield Pen (Inspirational Leader and Fleet Tactical Boosts) have also been updated to give this new Skill.
We're going to continue to monitor the issue as it applies to other existing sources of Shield Penetration. But at least for the time being, we didn't want to exacerbate the issue, or draw a spotlight on it by including it as a Skill mechanic.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Hey guys, just wanted to pop in and say that we're hearing the feedback on this topic.
As a partial fix (or at least deferment) of the issue, as it relates to the Skill Revamp, we've decided to make the following change:
The "Shield Penetration" Skill is being removed, and replaced with a "Shield Weakening" Skill.
* This Skill, instead of ignoring Shields entirely, amplifies the damage dealt to enemy Shields when they prevent damage from reaching the Hull.
* This Skill is directly countered by Shield Hardness - they are the exact same mechanic, applied in opposite directions.
* The few other sources of Shield Pen (Inspirational Leader and Fleet Tactical Boosts) have also been updated to give this new Skill.
We're going to continue to monitor the issue as it applies to other existing sources of Shield Penetration. But at least for the time being, we didn't want to exacerbate the issue, or draw a spotlight on it by including it as a Skill mechanic.
That's a very, very nice change, thank you. Maybe things that currently add shield penetration (Intelligence Fleet, Self-Modulating Fire, etc) could be reworked in the same way?
Self-Modulating Fire could increase damage to shields by 50% for 10 seconds. So basically that would be -50% shield hardness I think, if I understand this correctly (Not like -50% of your current total Shield Hardness percent, but instead adding negative 50% to the total of everything else you use to boost shield hardness at the time, like EP2S, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc). So let's say you have EP2S 3, RSF 3 and TSS 3 active at the time someone has Self-Modulating Fire active. EP2S 3 adds 30% Shield Hardness, my RSF adds 43%, and my TSS 3 adds 22.5% Shield Hardness. So 30%+43%+22.5% is +95% Shield Hardness from those 3 sources. Then Self-Modulating fire hits you and that's -50% Shield Hardness. So 95%-50% is 45%. So you're only getting +45% from your sources of Shield Hardness for 10 seconds.
So this seems like how Damage Resistance works with Armor Penetration. 5% armor penetration vs someone using (let's say) 5 epic enhanced neutroniums. Those armor consoles add +125 Kinetic/Energy damage resistance rating. With the armor pen it's 125*0.95=118.75. So you're getting less benefit from your armor consoles but you're still getting some.
Comments
Yes
"You can counter 100% shield pen by hull tanking."
This is EXACTLY what we are talking about. How do you make shields useful? by NOT putting points into them and instead going into heavy hull and hull healing. Hope that the other guy wasted his points on shields that will have 0 effect.
IE don't fall for the TRAP of shield skills that become useless in PVP.
The new skill system has 2 effects:
1. Makes half the science tree about shields and
2. Gives everyone who wants it 10% MORE shield pen, cheaply.
I thought the point of the skill revamp was to avoid creating traps, not make half of one entire line a trap.
In PVP you can survive ONLY by being a massive hull tank and then hoping that you don't have multiple people firing at your in a coordinated fashion.
Shields UP!... Why bother.
They are looking for feedback on Tribble. Tribble has these two affects that make an already serious problem, more wide spread and easier by adding an almost free 10% shield pen to stack on top of rep traits and re-sequencer traits. It also re-focuses science points into shields, making a bigger trap to land in. That you "counter" this by hull tanking is proving the point exactly. Shields are a useless waste in high level PVP. Unless you are trying to say that "Shields should be useless" in which case I respectfully disagree with you.
Shield pen is out of control to the point of making them a laughable defense. Cap it, or make it something that can be resisted or put a warning label on the shield skills "these wont help you at all in pvp against any serious player."
You know it is interesting that Hull damage in the game does not scale to the amount of shields you have left.
Because on TV and the movies: as the shields lose their strength, the more damage gets through to hit the hull, too. And they lose their shields first...and they try so hard to keep them at full strength.
I don't think writers and directors have heard of Hull Damage Resistance or Hull Plating.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm implying that there needs to be either
A) Resists for plasma explosions
C) Have shieldResists work against them.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I've been using "transport torpedo warhead" on my intel cruiser, but I'm pretty sure that's NOT what's going on here
I actually answered this already on page 1
" Then, there's what I outlined in this post that can be done w/o energy weapons, 4 traits, and a lot of torps, timing, and luck. Still doesn't counter immunities. "
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
My gut says we need all penetration turned from flat, freely stackable percentages to penetration ratings that go through our beloved caps-at-75% diminishing returns curve.
None of those elements look outrageous on their own (self modulating fire is a bit of a blunt instrument, but ok). Its the stacking that goes crazy.
This has been brought up more times than I can count. We've said it a few times on The SHOW as well, and have plans to bring on some ground and space PvP'ers to give their perspectives on what would make PvP great for both casuals and pro's.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
A repair that only covers PvP is not viable. There is still the problem of: players using shield penetration on "Big Boss" NPC's and taking them out so quickly.
It would have to be something like a cap on shield penetration that applies across the board.
Of course, players could be more gentlemanly and allow people less "stacked up" in the gear/traits department get some hits in edgewise, too. But people prefer being the overwhelming force.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Now I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but what if they just modified shield hardness to also resist shield penetration. The theoretical cap for shield hardness is 75% so if a big shield tanker (or any tank build really) invested a lot into shield hardness (Elite Fleet Shield, EP2S 3, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc), they would also resist 75% of shield penetration. I dunno, I think it's a good idea. It would also help npcs resists shield penetration because even they have some shield hardness.
You just gave me a good idea; why can't the plasma consoles be subjected to the same rules as the other Embassy consoles? :-)
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I've always thought the plasma explosion consoles should have a 10 second cooldown. I'd be fine if all embassy consoles had a 10 second cooldown per console. Having no cooldown is probably a bad thing (like with the current plasma explosion consoles) and having a global cooldown is also a bad thing (like with the current hull/shield repairing consoles).
I also think the non sci shield pen (gw/TBR ect) could have resists added into Sheild hardness (like that 50% shield pen trait)
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Thanks for opening my eyes, and think about this, though. It is helping me understand the game a better. But I don't play at the same level as all you guys.
I am off to study the more basic stuffs. I am dropping off of here.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
You have the better idea. I say we work towards that idea. I'll be bringing it up this week.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Thanks, yeah it's always bothered me that the plasma embassy consoles have no cooldown and the cooldown on the hull/shield embassy consoles is global.
Because it would make them utterly worthless.
I mean.. powerCreep... why not. FYI, your ideas went over very well on our Wednesday's broadcast
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Say, for example, they have only self-modulating fire and you take the same 1000 damage energy weapon shot. Does it become 500 to hull and 500 to shields split as 450/50? Or do we have a ship with 75% shield hardness that has that effectively reduced to 25%, making a 225/25 split into a 675/75 split? Or a third option, does added penetration affect the 90/10 split, giving a ship with 75% hardness 250 damage split 100/150?
I'm just trying to nail down how these mechanics work in their current iteration, because the hypothetical inclusion of shield hardness into penetration reduction makes me think of something turning out like option 3, i.e. a bulk reduction by the hardness with more penetration getting a greater amount of the remainder through, at least as long as the shields are up.
Really? That is awesome to hear. I'd love to see that change implemented.
Shield Hardness does not affect the bleedthrough damage. So 1000 damage get split 900/100, and the 900 will be lowered by shield hardness. The 100 will only be lowered by hull resistances.
And if you got resilient shield, the split is 950/50, and the 950 will be lowered by 5 % (the "Absorption" mentioned in the Resilient Shield Description), on top of any shield hardness you have.
Why? Just because items are sold in the same location and share a similar theme, it doesn't mean they'd be balanced by making the same changes. Your logic is bad.
#FixTorps #johnNumbersLives
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Also FYI I wasn't being serious on that post. If you read the entire conversation you will see my real opinion on the embassy consoles stated earlier.
@eldritchx
As a partial fix (or at least deferment) of the issue, as it relates to the Skill Revamp, we've decided to make the following change:
The "Shield Penetration" Skill is being removed, and replaced with a "Shield Weakening" Skill.
* This Skill, instead of ignoring Shields entirely, amplifies the damage dealt to enemy Shields when they prevent damage from reaching the Hull.
* This Skill is directly countered by Shield Hardness - they are the exact same mechanic, applied in opposite directions.
* The few other sources of Shield Pen (Inspirational Leader and Fleet Tactical Boosts) have also been updated to give this new Skill.
We're going to continue to monitor the issue as it applies to other existing sources of Shield Penetration. But at least for the time being, we didn't want to exacerbate the issue, or draw a spotlight on it by including it as a Skill mechanic.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
That's a very, very nice change, thank you.
Self-Modulating Fire could increase damage to shields by 50% for 10 seconds. So basically that would be -50% shield hardness I think, if I understand this correctly (Not like -50% of your current total Shield Hardness percent, but instead adding negative 50% to the total of everything else you use to boost shield hardness at the time, like EP2S, Nanoprobe Field Generator, etc). So let's say you have EP2S 3, RSF 3 and TSS 3 active at the time someone has Self-Modulating Fire active. EP2S 3 adds 30% Shield Hardness, my RSF adds 43%, and my TSS 3 adds 22.5% Shield Hardness. So 30%+43%+22.5% is +95% Shield Hardness from those 3 sources. Then Self-Modulating fire hits you and that's -50% Shield Hardness. So 95%-50% is 45%. So you're only getting +45% from your sources of Shield Hardness for 10 seconds.
So this seems like how Damage Resistance works with Armor Penetration. 5% armor penetration vs someone using (let's say) 5 epic enhanced neutroniums. Those armor consoles add +125 Kinetic/Energy damage resistance rating. With the armor pen it's 125*0.95=118.75. So you're getting less benefit from your armor consoles but you're still getting some.
Wow I think I just confused myself.
Good game bort, good game!!! I love it....
@kyle223cat