A lot they can and should do and a long time ago, assuming PWE provides the funds for it and doesn't just take in all the profits with minimal reinvestment.
1. Gameplay itself should be rewarding, not just bribery with in-game Dilithium, R&D, and random drop rep boxes for alts. Here's a bunch of points all thrown in that would IMO help a ton: Change things up in the queues, add random scenarios, even completely unpredictable events within queues. Stop catering Tac DPS FAW style of gameplay - add some strong FBP targets, NPC 'friendly fire' and make FAW purely AoE and not adequate for single targets. Add challenges that requires skill not just AoE DPS. Add individual optionals/requirements/failure conditions so worthless pug team members (the majority) either live with repeat failures or learn to apply themselves for once and bring team dynamics to life. Challenge is fun, and seeing success from proper application of skill, team efforts, versatility, strategy (and not just DPS-Gear) without being dragged down by individual team members is rewarding gameplay. Take away DPS/HP and timers, introduce abilities to enemies so they can chase us in packs and use the same abilities against us, making the STF feel alive. Introduce balanced and mixed PvP/E and PvP battlezones. Fix game-breaking bugs in time (Eg. Kemo lag, STF NPCs vanishing/reappearing bug, being shoved in failed ISA instances, CTDs, SNRs, pets, DX11, broken ships (Dyson, Kar'Fi), etc.). Add more game content and variation on existing content.
2. Rewards: balance these out. A queue that has -- for Est. Time and hasn't run in forever could reward a lot of marks. Include adequate fleet marks from other events not just CCA and Defera so fleets can have fun running whatever, perhaps as an option for fleet-only pre-made teams. Long hard content should reward in proportion to quicker easier content that doesn't have a chance to fail. Visual customizations as unlocks: endless options, yes some of us like our space barbie. Fleet mission events eg. deposit BNPs etc., for fleet holding XP.
Many options are on the table. Bottom line is there's no need to turn the game into a grind by bribery and then reward such bribery to Tac-DPS type gameplay only. Keep the focus on fun, add and promote diversity and freedom of choice, shuffle things around, balance rewards properly so you don't get punished for doing different things, and have events focus on teams and fleets as opposed to solo grinds.
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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The queues are fine; it's the players who need to be fixed.
Just take a look at the various threads where people are complaining about the Breach and you know what I mean. The only thing people, or at least this minority on the Forum, seem to care about are rewards. Things must be had on all characters, preferably with as little effort as possible. If it cannot be obtained in the equivalent of a 3 or 4 minute ISA or CCA, it's a fail, the revamp 'sucks' and... well you all know what people tend to say here whenever they might not get everything they want, immediately.
Apparantly some people aren't able to play something they like, especially if it means they get less rewards or a less certain outcome by pugging it.
Nah, the players are fine. Which is to say, ceterus paribus, what with the players simply being what they always are, what really changed is their number.
I sometimes wonder some people are playing the game at all. All they seem to care about are rewards, time needed to get those rewards and options to get more rewards.
It's the only explanation I can think of why anyone would want to play ISA or CCA over and over again, even when they've already completed their ship upgrades etc. The process of playing the game and enjoying the content in it doesn't seem to matter anymore; it's only the thing you get at the end for completing a mission that is motivating people to play at all.
Though perhaps, some randomisation of missions like in fleet alert or starbase incursion could help to bring more people into the queues. Cause I have to admit, all missions become repetitive after a while, so perhaps it's not that strange that, if you have to repeat things, you might as well choose the mission that's easiest to complete. Randomisation might keep things interesting.
A lot they can and should do and a long time ago, assuming PWE provides the funds for it and doesn't just take in all the profits with minimal reinvestment.
1. Gameplay itself should be rewarding, not just bribery with in-game Dilithium, R&D, and random drop rep boxes for alts. Here's a bunch of points all thrown in that would IMO help a ton: Change things up in the queues, add random scenarios, even completely unpredictable events within queues. Stop catering Tac DPS FAW style of gameplay - add some strong FBP targets, NPC 'friendly fire' and make FAW purely AoE and not adequate for single targets. Add challenges that requires skill not just AoE DPS. Add individual optionals/requirements/failure conditions so worthless pug team members (the majority) either live with repeat failures or learn to apply themselves for once and bring team dynamics to life. Challenge is fun, and seeing success from proper application of skill, team efforts, versatility, strategy (and not just DPS-Gear) without being dragged down by individual team members is rewarding gameplay. Take away DPS/HP and timers, introduce abilities to enemies so they can chase us in packs and use the same abilities against us, making the STF feel alive. Introduce balanced and mixed PvP/E and PvP battlezones. Fix game-breaking bugs in time (Eg. Kemo lag, STF NPCs vanishing/reappearing bug, being shoved in failed ISA instances, CTDs, SNRs, pets, DX11, broken ships (Dyson, Kar'Fi), etc.). Add more game content and variation on existing content.
2. Rewards: balance these out. A queue that has -- for Est. Time and hasn't run in forever could reward a lot of marks. Include adequate fleet marks from other events not just CCA and Defera so fleets can have fun running whatever, perhaps as an option for fleet-only pre-made teams. Long hard content should reward in proportion to quicker easier content that doesn't have a chance to fail. Visual customizations as unlocks: endless options, yes some of us like our space barbie. Fleet mission events eg. deposit BNPs etc., for fleet holding XP.
Many options are on the table. Bottom line is there's no need to turn the game into a grind by bribery and then reward such bribery to Tac-DPS type gameplay only. Keep the focus on fun, add and promote diversity and freedom of choice, shuffle things around, balance rewards properly so you don't get punished for doing different things, and have events focus on teams and fleets as opposed to solo grinds.
Good ideas there. Balance is badly needed. Doesn't help that they chose to nerf Sci first though
And adding different rewards to missions other than ISA or CCA might help too. I doubt the players' attitude can be changed so perhaps the wiser course of action would be to use that attitude to direct players to different queues.
Edit: spelling. Yup, even in three sentences I make mistakes
Are you cereal?! You want to make an already wickedly costly Upgrade system even moar expensive, by removing mats drop boxes, just so people will somehow magically run more queues?!
Typical selfish thinking. Remove rewards from everything else to force players into playing content they may not enjoy.
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
What killed the queues is the lack of reward for the effort involved.
Pretty much that but on a lot of maps we have a heavy performance curve there. Potent teams usually grab 2,5-3k Dil (every reward aspect abstracted to Dil) in 2-6 minutes per run while bad groups need up to twenty minutes for the same result or fail totally and get nothing. Cryptic’s time gated maps on the other hand are rejected by close to everyone.
For good players some queues are a pure cash cow that can be milked for max refinement capacity in one quarter of an hour while having fun and challenges. For weak or new players they pose an obstacle too big to even consider overcoming.
The queues are fine; it's the players who need to be fixed.
Just take a look at the various threads where people are complaining about the Breach and you know what I mean. The only thing people, or at least this minority on the Forum, seem to care about are rewards. Things must be had on all characters, preferably with as little effort as possible.
Yea well the reason for this behavior could be that Delta Rising roughly doubled the effort to reach endgame while multiplying it with ten if one strives for optimum.
Most don’t have twice or ten times as much time to play so economic aspects during their online time surface more than ever.
Certaily something I can understand.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I sometimes wonder some people are playing the game at all. All they seem to care about are rewards, time needed to get those rewards and options to get more rewards.
It's the only explanation I can think of why anyone would want to play ISA or CCA over and over again, even when they've already completed their ship upgrades etc. The process of playing the game and enjoying the content in it doesn't seem to matter anymore; it's only the thing you get at the end for completing a mission that is motivating people to play at all.
Though perhaps, some randomisation of missions like in fleet alert or starbase incursion could help to bring more people into the queues. Cause I have to admit, all missions become repetitive after a while, so perhaps it's not that strange that, if you have to repeat things, you might as well choose the mission that's easiest to complete. Randomisation might keep things interesting.
I think you're grossly overemphasizing the alledged run on rewards. As I explained elsewhere, I have so much gated, Unrefined Dilithium, it would take me well over a year to refine it all; so any 500 Unrefined Dil reward a STF may offer me, is as good as absolutely useless to me, as I'll, de facto, never see it.
I like getting mats packs, though, and Fleet Marks. But that is not the primary reason for running queues. Any MMO is simply always, by and large, repetitive: it's simply 100x harder to write new missions than it is to have people grind. So you simply wind up doing a lot of things, a lot of times. Kinda of the premise of the game.
Are you cereal?! You want to make an already wickedly costly Upgrade system even moar expensive, by removing mats drop boxes, just so people will somehow magically run more queues?!
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
Neither do I, in the sense that I luckily can still play something beside ISA and CCA. I can play KAGN and KAGA, IGA and IGN, Gateway to grethor, Bug hunt, the Fleet missions etc. a few times a day. It wouldn't hurt the game if these, and some of the 20-man queues, were more active though.
(...)
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
The problem is that queues are starving of players and that's a new phenomenon. Before the reputation projects, all queues had people playing them all the time, you could jump into one and play in a matter of minutes tops. After the revamp of queues and reputations participation in those queues dropped literally to zero in some instances which leads to Cryptic removing those missions one after the other, making the game even poorer content wise.
It's an objectively measurable issue and not a subjective problem.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
(...)
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
The problem is that queues are starving of players and that's a new phenomenon. Before the reputation projects, all queues had people playing them all the time, you could jump into one and play in a matter of minutes tops. After the revamp of queues and reputations participation in those queues dropped literally to zero in some instances which leads to Cryptic removing those missions one after the other, making the game even poorer content wise.
It's an objectively measurable issue and not a subjective problem.
Sure it takes awhile to pop sometimes but I don't have any trouble pugging most queues. What time is the OP logging on?
Now of course some of the queues are simply not pug friendly and/or have poor rewards for the effort involved
(looking at you Hive Ground)
Reputation projects made the game actually feel rewarding for a change. I had given up on the salvage grind and literally stopped playing before they added rep.
Some queues just need their marks adjusted.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
You can still play the ques if you have an active fleet. Just give a shout to your fleet mates and on armada and you should be able to que anything you want. If you are arguing that you want PUGs, that's a whole 'nother issue.
(...)
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
The problem is that queues are starving of players and that's a new phenomenon. Before the reputation projects, all queues had people playing them all the time, you could jump into one and play in a matter of minutes tops. After the revamp of queues and reputations participation in those queues dropped literally to zero in some instances which leads to Cryptic removing those missions one after the other, making the game even poorer content wise.
It's an objectively measurable issue and not a subjective problem.
^^ Which is precisely what I tried to explain above. Players' alleged attitude has nothing to do with it.
(...)
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
The problem is that queues are starving of players and that's a new phenomenon. Before the reputation projects, all queues had people playing them all the time, you could jump into one and play in a matter of minutes tops. After the revamp of queues and reputations participation in those queues dropped literally to zero in some instances which leads to Cryptic removing those missions one after the other, making the game even poorer content wise.
It's an objectively measurable issue and not a subjective problem.
^^ Which is precisely what I tried to explain above. Players' alleged attitude has nothing to do with it.
If this is really a problem for most people then they need to finally work on fixing reward ratio for the neglected queues. Why does HGE give the same amount of Omega marks as BoTSE gives Iconian, when BoTSE pugs pop often and succeed often?
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
(...)
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
The problem is that queues are starving of players and that's a new phenomenon. Before the reputation projects, all queues had people playing them all the time, you could jump into one and play in a matter of minutes tops. After the revamp of queues and reputations participation in those queues dropped literally to zero in some instances which leads to Cryptic removing those missions one after the other, making the game even poorer content wise.
It's an objectively measurable issue and not a subjective problem.
^^ Which is precisely what I tried to explain above. Players' alleged attitude has nothing to do with it.
If this is really a problem for most people then they need to finally work on fixing reward ratio for the neglected queues. Why does HGE give the same amount of Omega marks as BoTSE gives Iconian, when BoTSE pugs pop often and succeed often?
I'm not even sure it can't be fixed, really (short of ditching the whole Upgrade system). Before DR, large numbers of casual players, who had just, equally casually, gathered their rep gear over the years, could just log on and play. Now those same ppl simply left, as full participation now meant they had to pony up huge amounts of cash to be competitive again. It's really the numbers that are killing the queues. Tweaking rewards is always a good idea, of course; but go queue for Starbase Fleet Defense (which really used to be very popular), and you'll be queued for at least a day. And the next.
(...)
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
The problem is that queues are starving of players and that's a new phenomenon. Before the reputation projects, all queues had people playing them all the time, you could jump into one and play in a matter of minutes tops. After the revamp of queues and reputations participation in those queues dropped literally to zero in some instances which leads to Cryptic removing those missions one after the other, making the game even poorer content wise.
It's an objectively measurable issue and not a subjective problem.
^^ Which is precisely what I tried to explain above. Players' alleged attitude has nothing to do with it.
If this is really a problem for most people then they need to finally work on fixing reward ratio for the neglected queues. Why does HGE give the same amount of Omega marks as BoTSE gives Iconian, when BoTSE pugs pop often and succeed often?
I'm not even sure it can't be fixed, really (short of ditching the whole Upgrade system). Before DR, large numbers of casual players, who had just, equally casually, gathered their rep gear over the years, could just log on and play. Now those same ppl simply left, as full participation now meant they had to pony up huge amounts of cash to be competitive again. It's really the numbers that are killing the queues. Tweaking rewards is always a good idea, of course; but go queue for Starbase Fleet Defense (which really used to be very popular), and you'll be queued for at least a day. And the next.
Why not reduce the amount of dill and mats the upgrade system requires? The upgrade system is a rather unique and fun part of STO, allowing that mission reward you got at level 24 to be relevant in endgame. No reason to ditch it.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
What several have said here is correct. DR drove off many casual trek fan type players who were likely to pug. And it drove others to run privately. In addition we can now gain similar rewards for playing solo content which eats up a large percentage of the remaining casual players.
There is really no solution to this. We are riding the model of big spenders spending a lot until the end so it's best just to accept that and stick to the 10-15 queues that still go. It's still enough variety for me anyway. There's a few that I'm worried are heading to be zeroed out like Undine Infiltration. It will sadden me if that stops being possible.
Rotating some to be featured each week might help a little. And removing the ones already zeroed out from public might also be necessary as long as they can be still run privately. Unfortunately I doubt this will be done. Instead they would just be removed.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I sometimes wonder some people are playing the game at all. All they seem to care about are rewards, time needed to get those rewards and options to get more rewards.
It's the only explanation I can think of why anyone would want to play ISA or CCA over and over again, even when they've already completed their ship upgrades etc. The process of playing the game and enjoying the content in it doesn't seem to matter anymore; it's only the thing you get at the end for completing a mission that is motivating people to play at all.
Though perhaps, some randomisation of missions like in fleet alert or starbase incursion could help to bring more people into the queues. Cause I have to admit, all missions become repetitive after a while, so perhaps it's not that strange that, if you have to repeat things, you might as well choose the mission that's easiest to complete. Randomisation might keep things interesting.
I think you're grossly overemphasizing the alledged run on rewards. As I explained elsewhere, I have so much gated, Unrefined Dilithium, it would take me well over a year to refine it all; so any 500 Unrefined Dil reward a STF may offer me, is as good as absolutely useless to me, as I'll, de facto, never see it.
I like getting mats packs, though, and Fleet Marks. But that is not the primary reason for running queues. Any MMO is simply always, by and large, repetitive: it's simply 100x harder to write new missions than it is to have people grind. So you simply wind up doing a lot of things, a lot of times. Kinda of the premise of the game.
(Emphasis mine).
And yet the solution people keep discussing here is centred around one thing: rewards. I'm not overemphasising anything, this very thread is all the proof one needs to confirm my earlier point.
Look, we all want rewards for what we're doing. That's something that will probably not change. However, the fact that most people choose to play ISA has a lot to do with the fact that it's ridiculously easy to get those rewards there, in only a fraction of the time the mission was intended to last.
Either way, if we want to bring more people into the queues, then it may be needed that
1. People change their attitude and play a mission that is time-gated, such as Gateway to Grethor.
2. People don't change their attitude, meaning that everyone will keep playing ISA and CCA and thus they may need to change the rewards for those missions.
Of course everyone likes the second option better cause then we can all demand that Cryptic changes something, but maybe the players (or at least this minorty on the Forum) could look into the mirror for a change and realise that they themselves could provide the solution as well.
I still see Gateway to Gre'thor run a lot in private channels. and Brotherhood of the Sword pops quite often
(although not always CONSTANTLY) and that is a timed ground mission.
If we look in the mirror for a change do we end up seeing evil goatees and bare midriffs though? this is the danger inherent in introspection.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
What several have said here is correct. DR drove off many casual trek fan type players who were likely to pug. And it drove others to run privately. In addition we can now gain similar rewards for playing solo content which eats up a large percentage of the remaining casual players.
There is really no solution to this. We are riding the model of big spenders spending a lot until the end so it's best just to accept that and stick to the 10-15 queues that still go. It's still enough variety for me anyway. There's a few that I'm worried are heading to be zeroed out like Undine Infiltration. It will sadden me if that stops being possible.
Rotating some to be featured each week might help a little. And removing the ones already zeroed out from public might also be necessary as long as they can be still run privately. Unfortunately I doubt this will be done. Instead they would just be removed.
Same issue has been reported periodically since the inception of these events. They have been like that even prior to F2P and I can go back since this MMO was in Beta. Same issues just different people.
Lots of different suggestions have been brought up but one thing is for sure Devs nor Mr EP could care less to update these PvE systems. Also, people come and go. While some gets frustrated with how things are and might leave new fresh blood starts the cycle again. Sorry to disappoint but if history is an indicator not much will be done to resolve. Better approach is to find a "good" fleet that can accommodate your style or a bunch of close friends to do the queues you like to run.
I still see Gateway to Gre'thor run a lot in private channels. and Brotherhood of the Sword pops quite often
(although not always CONSTANTLY) and that is a timed ground mission.
If we look in the mirror for a change do we end up seeing evil goatees and bare midriffs though? this is the danger inherent in introspection.
Yeah, I was referring to the public queues. BOTSE can hardly be called elite if you ask me though. Same with Rhiho station elite. Yet these missions give elite rewards which is probably the only reason why they're among the more often played elite ground missions.
They do pop every now and then indeed, but far less than ISA which can be done in three minutes. And that's saying something.
I still see Gateway to Gre'thor run a lot in private channels. and Brotherhood of the Sword pops quite often
(although not always CONSTANTLY) and that is a timed ground mission.
If we look in the mirror for a change do we end up seeing evil goatees and bare midriffs though? this is the danger inherent in introspection.
Yeah, I was referring to the public queues. BOTSE can hardly be called elite if you ask me though. Same with Rhiho station elite.
They do pop every now and then indeed, but far less than ISA which can be done in three minutes. And that's saying something.
BoTSE isn't too easy, it's just easy to figure out. Those heralds pack a punch, and can one shot most characters on a lucky melee crit. (it's happened many times).
It being one of the few queues where knowledgable and experienced players pug often doesn't make it too easy.
Rhllo station is made too easy by the existance of the TR-116B which allows elachi shields to be entirely bypassed.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I still see Gateway to Gre'thor run a lot in private channels. and Brotherhood of the Sword pops quite often
(although not always CONSTANTLY) and that is a timed ground mission.
If we look in the mirror for a change do we end up seeing evil goatees and bare midriffs though? this is the danger inherent in introspection.
Yeah, I was referring to the public queues. BOTSE can hardly be called elite if you ask me though. Same with Rhiho station elite.
They do pop every now and then indeed, but far less than ISA which can be done in three minutes. And that's saying something.
BoTSE isn't too easy, it's just easy to figure out. Those heralds pack a punch, and can one shot most characters on a lucky melee crit. (it's happened many times).
It being one of the few queues where knowledgable and experienced players pug often doesn't make it too easy.
Rhllo station is made too easy by the existance of the TR-116B which allows elachi shields to be entirely bypassed.
True, maybe 'easy' isn't the right word to describe it... but the rewards are too high for the time it takes to complete. Same problem really with ISA and CCA.
I still see Gateway to Gre'thor run a lot in private channels. and Brotherhood of the Sword pops quite often
(although not always CONSTANTLY) and that is a timed ground mission.
If we look in the mirror for a change do we end up seeing evil goatees and bare midriffs though? this is the danger inherent in introspection.
Yeah, I was referring to the public queues. BOTSE can hardly be called elite if you ask me though. Same with Rhiho station elite.
They do pop every now and then indeed, but far less than ISA which can be done in three minutes. And that's saying something.
BoTSE isn't too easy, it's just easy to figure out. Those heralds pack a punch, and can one shot most characters on a lucky melee crit. (it's happened many times).
It being one of the few queues where knowledgable and experienced players pug often doesn't make it too easy.
Rhllo station is made too easy by the existance of the TR-116B which allows elachi shields to be entirely bypassed.
True, maybe 'easy' isn't the right word to describe it... but the rewards are too high for the time it takes to complete. Same problem really with ISA and CCA.
I wouldn't say it's too high, given the amount of marks rep projects require. 75 marks on average for completing an elite queue sounds about right.
If you're going to spend 20 minutes on an HGE though, you should be awarded at least 150 marks for success.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Counting all the different difficulty levels (normal, advanced, elite) there are over eighty possible missions to queue up for, so that's one problem. I think this can be solved by having only a few missions at any one time that rotate in and out every week. The exception would be new queue missions or events, they could stay in that featured section at the top.
What has killed the ques is dead-easy, target rich environment runs like ISA and CCA, and how they produce lovely fat numbers in parse logs with the day's FAW meta, and the generous alt-friendly environment that STO provides users.
ISE, CCA, Log into Alt.
Repeat until CD on ISA and CCA is over on first character.
I'm perfectly happy with the choices we have now. If someone has trouble getting a pug to pop, find some friends to team with. it's really not so complicated.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Counting all the different difficulty levels (normal, advanced, elite) there are over eighty possible missions to queue up for, so that's one problem. I think this can be solved by having only a few missions at any one time that rotate in and out every week. The exception would be new queue missions or events, they could stay in that featured section at the top.
This would mean that almost all missions are unavailable for an entire week. Why should those of us that do play other things beside ISA (I really love IGA and KAGA for example as well as other ground missions) have to miss the opportunity to play these missions?
It'd make more sense to rotate ISA and CCA then, having those only available every other week. Though that might kill the game.
Comments
1. Gameplay itself should be rewarding, not just bribery with in-game Dilithium, R&D, and random drop rep boxes for alts. Here's a bunch of points all thrown in that would IMO help a ton: Change things up in the queues, add random scenarios, even completely unpredictable events within queues. Stop catering Tac DPS FAW style of gameplay - add some strong FBP targets, NPC 'friendly fire' and make FAW purely AoE and not adequate for single targets. Add challenges that requires skill not just AoE DPS. Add individual optionals/requirements/failure conditions so worthless pug team members (the majority) either live with repeat failures or learn to apply themselves for once and bring team dynamics to life. Challenge is fun, and seeing success from proper application of skill, team efforts, versatility, strategy (and not just DPS-Gear) without being dragged down by individual team members is rewarding gameplay. Take away DPS/HP and timers, introduce abilities to enemies so they can chase us in packs and use the same abilities against us, making the STF feel alive. Introduce balanced and mixed PvP/E and PvP battlezones. Fix game-breaking bugs in time (Eg. Kemo lag, STF NPCs vanishing/reappearing bug, being shoved in failed ISA instances, CTDs, SNRs, pets, DX11, broken ships (Dyson, Kar'Fi), etc.). Add more game content and variation on existing content.
2. Rewards: balance these out. A queue that has -- for Est. Time and hasn't run in forever could reward a lot of marks. Include adequate fleet marks from other events not just CCA and Defera so fleets can have fun running whatever, perhaps as an option for fleet-only pre-made teams. Long hard content should reward in proportion to quicker easier content that doesn't have a chance to fail. Visual customizations as unlocks: endless options, yes some of us like our space barbie. Fleet mission events eg. deposit BNPs etc., for fleet holding XP.
Many options are on the table. Bottom line is there's no need to turn the game into a grind by bribery and then reward such bribery to Tac-DPS type gameplay only. Keep the focus on fun, add and promote diversity and freedom of choice, shuffle things around, balance rewards properly so you don't get punished for doing different things, and have events focus on teams and fleets as opposed to solo grinds.
Nah, the players are fine. Which is to say, ceterus paribus, what with the players simply being what they always are, what really changed is their number.
It's the only explanation I can think of why anyone would want to play ISA or CCA over and over again, even when they've already completed their ship upgrades etc. The process of playing the game and enjoying the content in it doesn't seem to matter anymore; it's only the thing you get at the end for completing a mission that is motivating people to play at all.
Though perhaps, some randomisation of missions like in fleet alert or starbase incursion could help to bring more people into the queues. Cause I have to admit, all missions become repetitive after a while, so perhaps it's not that strange that, if you have to repeat things, you might as well choose the mission that's easiest to complete. Randomisation might keep things interesting.
Good ideas there. Balance is badly needed. Doesn't help that they chose to nerf Sci first though
And adding different rewards to missions other than ISA or CCA might help too. I doubt the players' attitude can be changed so perhaps the wiser course of action would be to use that attitude to direct players to different queues.
Edit: spelling. Yup, even in three sentences I make mistakes
Typical selfish thinking. Remove rewards from everything else to force players into playing content they may not enjoy.
(I don't have trouble with queues at all by the way. so where is this problem the OP wants to fix exactly?)
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Pretty much that but on a lot of maps we have a heavy performance curve there. Potent teams usually grab 2,5-3k Dil (every reward aspect abstracted to Dil) in 2-6 minutes per run while bad groups need up to twenty minutes for the same result or fail totally and get nothing. Cryptic’s time gated maps on the other hand are rejected by close to everyone.
For good players some queues are a pure cash cow that can be milked for max refinement capacity in one quarter of an hour while having fun and challenges. For weak or new players they pose an obstacle too big to even consider overcoming.
Yea well the reason for this behavior could be that Delta Rising roughly doubled the effort to reach endgame while multiplying it with ten if one strives for optimum.
Most don’t have twice or ten times as much time to play so economic aspects during their online time surface more than ever.
Certaily something I can understand.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I think you're grossly overemphasizing the alledged run on rewards. As I explained elsewhere, I have so much gated, Unrefined Dilithium, it would take me well over a year to refine it all; so any 500 Unrefined Dil reward a STF may offer me, is as good as absolutely useless to me, as I'll, de facto, never see it.
I like getting mats packs, though, and Fleet Marks. But that is not the primary reason for running queues. Any MMO is simply always, by and large, repetitive: it's simply 100x harder to write new missions than it is to have people grind. So you simply wind up doing a lot of things, a lot of times. Kinda of the premise of the game.
Neither do I, in the sense that I luckily can still play something beside ISA and CCA. I can play KAGN and KAGA, IGA and IGN, Gateway to grethor, Bug hunt, the Fleet missions etc. a few times a day. It wouldn't hurt the game if these, and some of the 20-man queues, were more active though.
The problem is that queues are starving of players and that's a new phenomenon. Before the reputation projects, all queues had people playing them all the time, you could jump into one and play in a matter of minutes tops. After the revamp of queues and reputations participation in those queues dropped literally to zero in some instances which leads to Cryptic removing those missions one after the other, making the game even poorer content wise.
It's an objectively measurable issue and not a subjective problem.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Sure it takes awhile to pop sometimes but I don't have any trouble pugging most queues. What time is the OP logging on?
Now of course some of the queues are simply not pug friendly and/or have poor rewards for the effort involved
(looking at you Hive Ground)
Reputation projects made the game actually feel rewarding for a change. I had given up on the salvage grind and literally stopped playing before they added rep.
Some queues just need their marks adjusted.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
^^ Which is precisely what I tried to explain above.
If this is really a problem for most people then they need to finally work on fixing reward ratio for the neglected queues. Why does HGE give the same amount of Omega marks as BoTSE gives Iconian, when BoTSE pugs pop often and succeed often?
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I'm not even sure it can't be fixed, really (short of ditching the whole Upgrade system). Before DR, large numbers of casual players, who had just, equally casually, gathered their rep gear over the years, could just log on and play. Now those same ppl simply left, as full participation now meant they had to pony up huge amounts of cash to be competitive again. It's really the numbers that are killing the queues. Tweaking rewards is always a good idea, of course; but go queue for Starbase Fleet Defense (which really used to be very popular), and you'll be queued for at least a day. And the next.
Why not reduce the amount of dill and mats the upgrade system requires? The upgrade system is a rather unique and fun part of STO, allowing that mission reward you got at level 24 to be relevant in endgame. No reason to ditch it.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
There is really no solution to this. We are riding the model of big spenders spending a lot until the end so it's best just to accept that and stick to the 10-15 queues that still go. It's still enough variety for me anyway. There's a few that I'm worried are heading to be zeroed out like Undine Infiltration. It will sadden me if that stops being possible.
Rotating some to be featured each week might help a little. And removing the ones already zeroed out from public might also be necessary as long as they can be still run privately. Unfortunately I doubt this will be done. Instead they would just be removed.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
(Emphasis mine).
And yet the solution people keep discussing here is centred around one thing: rewards. I'm not overemphasising anything, this very thread is all the proof one needs to confirm my earlier point.
Look, we all want rewards for what we're doing. That's something that will probably not change. However, the fact that most people choose to play ISA has a lot to do with the fact that it's ridiculously easy to get those rewards there, in only a fraction of the time the mission was intended to last.
Either way, if we want to bring more people into the queues, then it may be needed that
1. People change their attitude and play a mission that is time-gated, such as Gateway to Grethor.
2. People don't change their attitude, meaning that everyone will keep playing ISA and CCA and thus they may need to change the rewards for those missions.
Of course everyone likes the second option better cause then we can all demand that Cryptic changes something, but maybe the players (or at least this minorty on the Forum) could look into the mirror for a change and realise that they themselves could provide the solution as well.
(although not always CONSTANTLY) and that is a timed ground mission.
If we look in the mirror for a change do we end up seeing evil goatees and bare midriffs though? this is the danger inherent in introspection.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
They should just remove ISA and CCA xD
Lots of different suggestions have been brought up but one thing is for sure Devs nor Mr EP could care less to update these PvE systems. Also, people come and go. While some gets frustrated with how things are and might leave new fresh blood starts the cycle again. Sorry to disappoint but if history is an indicator not much will be done to resolve. Better approach is to find a "good" fleet that can accommodate your style or a bunch of close friends to do the queues you like to run.
Yeah, I was referring to the public queues. BOTSE can hardly be called elite if you ask me though. Same with Rhiho station elite. Yet these missions give elite rewards which is probably the only reason why they're among the more often played elite ground missions.
They do pop every now and then indeed, but far less than ISA which can be done in three minutes. And that's saying something.
BoTSE isn't too easy, it's just easy to figure out. Those heralds pack a punch, and can one shot most characters on a lucky melee crit. (it's happened many times).
It being one of the few queues where knowledgable and experienced players pug often doesn't make it too easy.
Rhllo station is made too easy by the existance of the TR-116B which allows elachi shields to be entirely bypassed.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
True, maybe 'easy' isn't the right word to describe it... but the rewards are too high for the time it takes to complete. Same problem really with ISA and CCA.
I wouldn't say it's too high, given the amount of marks rep projects require. 75 marks on average for completing an elite queue sounds about right.
If you're going to spend 20 minutes on an HGE though, you should be awarded at least 150 marks for success.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
ISE, CCA, Log into Alt.
Repeat until CD on ISA and CCA is over on first character.
This is STO today.
And The Players Love It™
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
This would mean that almost all missions are unavailable for an entire week. Why should those of us that do play other things beside ISA (I really love IGA and KAGA for example as well as other ground missions) have to miss the opportunity to play these missions?
It'd make more sense to rotate ISA and CCA then, having those only available every other week. Though that might kill the game.