Official Feedback Thread for Skill Revamp (v2.0!)

borticuscryptic

The previous thread was getting a bit unwieldy, and contained a lot of feedback that was either no longer applicable, or has been addressed.

So let's start anew! This thread is meant to contain feedback on the System based on its status as of the 3/2/16 Tribble Patch, and moving forward.

preiko

What will happen to these Defector and Console Stats:

+ StatStarshipPerception
+ Starship Stealth

do we keep that the way it is ?
Are the developers have something in mind for that ?

just FYI: i am mostly intressted in the old "Sensor" stat

( by the way on my other computer i am unable to access the forum )
( " Currently under Maintanace " is the only thing i get )

edit: "see something say something"
found a +30 Flow Capacitator on the Stormbound Mission Reward Engine

daveyny

Looks like it's time to go patch Tribble again.
And the forums have been really wonky all day.
I think ARC 3.0 is causing more than a few glitches/hiccups.

samt1996

Thank you for your tireless work, this patch fixes a lot of issues and complaints! However, I am still going to mention Tractor Beam Repulsors and Destabilized Resonance Beam which are currently performing at nearly half their holodeck values.

If you believe they need to be adjusted for balance sake I can live with that but ~40% is pretty heavy handed especially considering the skill and expense to acquire and use them effectively. Tractor beam repulsors is particularly troubling because it forms the cornerstone of many science builds.

Also i believe the AOE cloud from the particle emission plasma Torpedo is not currently being affected by EPG skill. I'm uncertain if this is intended or a bug so I'll post it here for now.

alexraptorr

Well I'll start off and its kind of both yay and nay.
Here's the numbers I ran with all my basic buffs and traits running on holodeck and tribble.

Holodeck
409 Particle Generator

DRB3: 3667.4
TBR2: 3523
GW1: 1433.9
SV1: 2768.1

Tribble
410 Particle Generator

DRB3: 2197.6
TBR2: 2446.3
GW1: 1842.3
SV1: 3556.5

As you can see, Subspace Vortex and Gravity well are performing quite admirably, while Tractor Beam Repulsors and Destabilizing Resonance beam are still hurting big time.

legendarylycan

as long as we're bringing up exotic powers, has anyone compared the holodeck/tribble damage numbers for isokinetic cannon? i believe that scales with partigens, so it would be affected by any math normalizing the skill went through during its conversion to exotic

i'd check myself since i have a character with the cannon already on tribble, but i won't be able to get on for another several hours

samt1996 wrote: »

Also i believe the AOE cloud from the particle emission plasma Torpedo is not currently being affected by EPG skill. I'm uncertain if this is intended or a bug so I'll post it here for now.

i'd say the fact that it currently scales with partigens on holodeck is the bug, because exotic is supposed to be any non-basic (i.e. phaser, antiproton, proton, electric, etc.) damage NOT dealt through a weapon activation

although...technically, it isn't the weapon activation causing the damage, it's the entity SPAWNED by the weapon, so maybe it is supposed to scale with exotic and just got broken​​

birzark

I do like the changes, the patch did help a lot. I only have 2 comments that probably have been mentioned before and I wasn't sure if they were addressed. Will there be an option to fill the tree out instead of having to confirm every point, cant we have it like we do now where we cant hit accept until you use all your points. Also I have a torpedo boat and not being able to pick both the crit D and Crit H in the passives is very bothersome. Also if I use energy only then i would be stuck with a crit skill for torpedoes that is completely useless to the build. The whole tree gives you a wide arrange of options but there is seems to limit your choices for some reason.

samt1996

The exact numbers I'm coming up with are a ~40% reduction for DRB and a 30% reduction for TBR.

borticuscryptic

Much like DrainX powers got a first pass in today's patch, ControlX and EPG will be getting a similar review in the near future. Hopefully by next week's patch, for both. So, feel free to submit feedback on the topic, but please remember that there is still more tuning to be done.

primar13

First, I'm very Happy with the changes made to Threatening Stance.

I was for the first time able to Rack up 10 Stacks, which boosted me to 120,000+ HP. Which I liked.

Even more so, I'm happy with the Amount of Effort I needed to achieve that. I ran The Brathra System Patrol on Elite. I was about 5 Minutes in before I really hit 10 Stacks. Now this is with 0 +threat Consoles, and without Attract Fire Active, which seems very balanced to me. IMHO no player should be getting 10 Stacks in say an ISA, unless they are pulling INSANE Agro . I want it to take a long period of Prolonged Combat before you receive such a large boost to HP, and this succeeds in doing so.

So I want to ask Though, as I got mixed messages. Todays Patch Notes said this was changed to checking Every 1 Second, instead of 2.

Am I correct to assume that it is Checking Every 1 Second, but only Applying Every 2 Seconds?
When before it was Checking AND Applying Every 2 Seconds, which greatly diminished the amount of Procs.

Am I understanding this right? because if the Apply rate was changed than the Tooltip needs to be updated, but I think I'm getting this right.

borticuscryptic

primar13 wrote: »

Am I correct to assume that it is Checking Every 1 Second, but only Applying Every 2 Seconds?
When before it was Checking AND Applying Every 2 Seconds, which greatly diminished the amount of Procs.

Am I understanding this right?

Nope!

It checks every 1sec. If you are damaged within that 1sec timeframe, it rolls its 20% chance to proc. If that chance is successful, it applies a stack of the triggered effect. If it is not successful, it won't check again until the next 1sec timeframe arrives.

samt1996

Thanks again bort! Control powers are going to be very difficult to quantify because there is a lot of changes going on here and few people used them at all in the past. They also have a very different impact on Gameplay then just DPS style powers do. I can give you numbers on Tribble but I'm not respeccing on holodeck right now so I'm not sure you'll be able to get a good comparison. Sorry

primar13

borticuscryptic wrote: »

primar13 wrote: »

Am I correct to assume that it is Checking Every 1 Second, but only Applying Every 2 Seconds?
When before it was Checking AND Applying Every 2 Seconds, which greatly diminished the amount of Procs.

Am I understanding this right?

Nope!

It checks every 1sec. If you are damaged within that 1sec timeframe, it rolls its 20% chance to proc. If that chance is successful, it applies a stack of the triggered effect. If it is not successful, it won't check again until the next 1sec timeframe arrives.

Okay, then the Tooltip could use an update. As it still say 2 Seconds, which caused my confusion.




Completely unrelated, but Fleet Support III doesn't have a Tooltip.

borticuscryptic

primar13 wrote: »

Completely unrelated, but Fleet Support III doesn't have a Tooltip.

Do you have the Command Frequency starship trait slotted? Do you have access to it?

primar13

borticuscryptic wrote: »

primar13 wrote: »

Completely unrelated, but Fleet Support III doesn't have a Tooltip.

Do you have the Command Frequency starship trait slotted? Do you have access to it?

Unlocked, Not Active.

Active are Emergency Weapon Cycle, Reciprocity, Supremacy, All Hands on Deck, Improved Feedback Pulse.

lucho80

samt1996 wrote: »

Thanks again bort! Control powers are going to be very difficult to quantify because there is a lot of changes going on here and few people used them at all in the past. They also have a very different impact on Gameplay then just DPS style powers do. I can give you numbers on Tribble but I'm not respeccing on holodeck right now so I'm not sure you'll be able to get a good comparison. Sorry

Control powers that tied to countermeasure will probably require some of those few PvP players that had sci boats that spammed stuff like scramble sensors. Frankly, I know no one who uses any subspace decompliler skill, although I do frequently use target subsystems for the drain aspect. The disable part was just more of a short bonus I was glad to get sometimes.

samt1996

Ok I compared the maximum possible drain skill on Holodeck and Tribble so here is a side by side comparison:

HOLODECK

Flow Capacitor skill - 480

Tykens Rift - 9.9, 13.2, 16.4
Energy Siphon - 52.2, 69.6, 87
Charged Particle Burst - 4950, 6600, 8200
Tachyon Beam - 1300, 1650, 2000

Subsystem Targeting - 81.6, 108.8, 136
Plasmonic Leech - 5.8 per pulse
Aceton Assimilator - 51 per pulse
Breen Energy Siphon - 70
Polaron Proc - 85
Tetryon Proc - 1200

Neutronic Torpedo - 51
Quantum Phase Torpedo - 5600 on normal and 33600 on TS3

TRIBBLE

Drain expertise skill - 580

Tykens Rift - 17.6, 23.4, 29.2
Energy Siphon - 52.7, 70.3, 87.9
Charged Particle Burst - 5250, 7000, 8700
Tachyon Beam - 2200, 2800, 3500
Viral Matrix - 19.5, 27.3, 35.2

Target Subsystem - 93.8, 125, 156.3
Plasmonic Leech - 5.9 per pulse
Aceton Assimilator - 58.6
Breen Energy Siphon - 68.7
Polaron Proc - 97.7
Tetryon Proc - 1400

Neutronic Torpedo - 58.6
Quantum Phase Torpedo - 6400 on normal and 38000 on TS3

I do not have the Apex Lobi set 2-piece for another +17.8 nor did I use a fleet boost for +10 or Inspirational leader, otherwise this is the max possible in both systems.

So while everything looks pretty much the same and Tykens Rift and Tachyon Beam currently have a Wicked boost I'd like Borticus to please remember that all of the equipment I used to get from 480 to 580 was Lobi and reputation based, neither of which are easily available to everyone. In short it was very expensive and took a lot of lube to cram all the neccesary pieces into my ship (figuratively speaking) to achieve the exact same results as before. Just pointing that out is all.

Also the readiness skill's tool tips aren't showing the improved values and the tool tips for drain infections don't change no matter how much EPG I stack so I'll assume that's just a display bug.

While we are at it could you buff the Tetryon proc significantly? It's always sucked hard even with high flowcaps i mean the polaron proc can pretty much shut down most NPC'S for me but the Tetryon proc just sucks and has since the very beginning. If you could increase its base drain 5-10x it would become much more useful though still not the best. Charged Particle Burst could also use a 50-100% buff to become useful because it takes extreme skill and pilotting to use effectively.

Edit: Added Polaron and Tetryon weapon procs as well as target subsystem abilities.

legendarylycan

why is viral matrix listed there? it's not a drain power

and damn, the QPT, TR and TB got a nice boost, and AA and CPB got a decent one

also, what about the drains on subsystem targeting?​​

lucho80

Lol, funny that the Breen siphon has a diff value from ES2. They used to be the same.

samt1996

Edited to add weapon procs and subsystem targeting. Subsystem disables and subsystem offlines are now separate entities and subsystem offlines (like Viral Matrix) are now boosted by Drain expertise.

lucho80

samt1996 wrote: »

Edited to add weapon procs and subsystem targeting. Subsystem disables and subsystem offlines are now separate entities and subsystem offlines (like Viral Matrix) are now boosted by Drain expertise.

Note to self: Start using doffed viral matrix combined with energy siphon doff.

samt1996

Yes there are many interesting possibilities now.

If you could post the stat difference on the Palisaide console and Quantum Phase set bonuses I think we will have everything down.

legendarylycan

everything except the tractor beam doff and the assimilated tractor beam (i think those scale with drain)​​

samt1996

I'll do that tomorrow I'm too damn tired right now. LOL

borticuscryptic

samt1996 wrote: »

Subsystem disables and subsystem offlines are now separate entities and subsystem offlines (like Viral Matrix) are now boosted by Drain expertise.

There is no such thing as "Subsystem Disable." It is either one or the other:

Subsystem Offline
- Reduces the available power in the targeted subsystem to zero. Powers which rely on that subsystem cannot be activated.
- Improved / Resisted by Drain Expertise

Disable
- All powers (or a defined sub-set, if the power says so) cannot be activated.
- Improved / Resisted by Control Expertise

samt1996

Thank you for clarifying, I do think it's a nice distinction to have. On another note would you mind checking the procs and proc chances on the Tholian Thermionic torpedo and the Elachi Subspace Torpedo? I'm not sure the Tholian torp is being affected by flowcaps and both of them have such a low proc chance for a torpedo that it's difficult to use them effectively. I'll take a look at Tricobalts tomorrow.

Thanks!

legendarylycan

tricobalts fall under disable, i think, so they wouldn't be affected by the drain skill but rather the control skill (assuming you're only testing drain stuff - if you're testing control as well, disregard)​​

samt1996

Yeah I know, that's what I'm doing next.

neok182

Just went and tested some things out and noticed a couple things which may be as intended but just wanted to post here and see if that was the case.

1) It seems impossible to have the same hull and shields on tribble while keeping all the same other abilities I have on holodeck. I saw a 5000 hull decrease and 1000 shield decrease. Now I could get those up by going all in on the increase max hull/shields but then I'd have to lose other abilities I had. This seems somewhat on purpose but I basically lost a whole 10% of my hull strength with no visible way to get it back that i can tell and same with shields.

2) hull regeneration and shield regeneration. Shield regeneration seems to always be higher on tribble than holodeck but hull regeneration is drastically decreased, even fully speced it wasn't as high as holodeck.

3) power levels. Even with all of the points spent in power level increases I don't see it possible to get my same base power levels on tribble. That being said they're all only 1-3 off so it's not that bad but just figured I'd bring it up.

As I said, a lot of this might be as intended but I wanted to bring it up just in case.

captainrevo1

I'll repeat this again in case it was missed in the last thread but we really need to have the name of each skill above or below the icon (and ideally each icon look different) to be able to tell what power does what. before it was really easy to know where to put our points but unless we are expected to commit this to memory its going to be a pain to have to hover over each skill before deciding. this is especially annoying on full respecs.

battykoda0

lucho80 wrote: »

samt1996 wrote: »

Thanks again bort! Control powers are going to be very difficult to quantify because there is a lot of changes going on here and few people used them at all in the past. They also have a very different impact on Gameplay then just DPS style powers do. I can give you numbers on Tribble but I'm not respeccing on holodeck right now so I'm not sure you'll be able to get a good comparison. Sorry

Control powers that tied to countermeasure will probably require some of those few PvP players that had sci boats that spammed stuff like scramble sensors. Frankly, I know no one who uses any subspace decompliler skill, although I do frequently use target subsystems for the drain aspect. The disable part was just more of a short bonus I was glad to get sometimes.

Lucho, I have the skills trained but don't use them. Being PvE, NPCs don't really give a good idea when they shoot at each other as they don't much damage each other. I have not used anything like that since I stopped PvP (and that has been a very long time plus I was never much good at it.) I'll scramble them the next loop around Tau Dewa and see what happens.

EDIT: I worked. They shot at each other. 10 foes for 16.2 seconds. It's a good distraction from yourself but they didn't do much to each other. It's much better when a player FAWs his teammates.