So feds now are getting a battle cloak. For those that don't know what I am talking about here is a cut/paste from the tribble patch notes:
Updated the Tactical Escort variant's Stealth Fighter item set to include the Phaser Quad Cannons.
This set now has a 3 piece bonus which upgrades the Cloaking Device's cloak to Battle Cloak.
Thanks cryptic *rolls eyes*. No real point in playing kdf or rom anymore. R.I.P. Kdf and Roms.
I believe it was the Klingons who stole the technology from the Rommys
Yes, that is indeed stated ingame in one of the Iconican War episodes.
Actually I think the Klingons got cloak tech in a trade with Romulans, giving the Romulans some D7 Battlecruisers in return.
Nope. Non-canon, out of character, net loss for the Romulans, and contradicts STO.
Onscreen canon, it has never been stated how the Klingon Empire got cloaking technology. STO as canon is about as reliable as jumping into the ocean using a paper bag as a life preserver.
Agreed; canon is a little vague on this one. On one hand, StarTrek.com supports the idea that the Klingons obtained the technology "from the Romulans circa 2268, when the two civilizations shared a political alliance". (http://www.startrek.com/database_article/cloaking-device-klingon)
However, if we go by what was on screen, we know that the Klingons didn't have cloaking tech back in 2151 when Starfleet first encountered Klingon ships - but the Romulans did as seen in 'Minefield' .
So there are only really three ways that the KDF could have obtained cloaking technology:
1: Developed themselves - unlikely, though not entirely impossible.
2: Obtained from the Romulans. This suppports Star Trek.com's article
3: Obtained from the Suliban who are known to have been using the technology as far back as early 2151, although they themselves obtained the tech from 'future guy', so.....
I have to say, option 2 seems the most likely. The Klingons were not using cloaks at the time the NX01 was operational and, chronologically, the first time we saw a Klingon ship use a cloak in canon was STIII, so what little evidence there is does tend to point to them obtaining the tech from the Romulans as the most plausable method.
3- They could also have got it from the Xrylians. So with two species that live nearby with cloaks that the Klingons just have to go in and take vs. a powerful isolated race who are ideologically opposed to the Klingon Empire who would likely demand more than some ships in return.
As StarTrek.com isn't canon and is simply regurgitating the old out of date fanfic that no longer makes sense after the events of ENT, it doesn't really matter what they say.
Considering both Sulaban and Romulan cloaks are plug-and-play it'd be far easier for the Klingons to steal them than bother with making their own.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
3- They could also have got it from the Xrylians. So with two species that live nearby with cloaks that the Klingons just have to go in and take vs. a powerful isolated race who are ideologically opposed to the Klingon Empire who would likely demand more than some ships in return.
As StarTrek.com isn't canon and is simply regurgitating the old out of date fanfic that no longer makes sense after the events of ENT, it doesn't really matter what they say.
Considering both Sulaban and Romulan cloaks are plug-and-play it'd be far easier for the Klingons to steal them than bother with making their own.
StarTrek.com might not be canon (by definition) but it is the most official take on the matter we have. Bringing weird ENT races into the mix (a show that places Qo'nos within spitting distance of earth and took a load on all kinds of established canon mind you - hence only way to accept ENT is as a alternate post FC timeline otherwise you go insane ) is just wild speculation.
Canon - no information given, hints people developed a theory about but that's it.
Official take (not canonical) - Alliance
Everything else - wild speculation not supported by anything (certainly not better than what we can piece together with the canon we have)
In my personal hierarchy of sources (canon -> TMs -> behind the scenes, cut content, 'official' stuff -> everything else) it's still the alliance/technology deal.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I understand it. It's just that since TNG/DS9 and esepecially ENT the characterisation of the two race excludes a TOS piece of fanfic.
With the introduction of two races with cloaks near Klingon space in ENT and the establishment of Romulan ships being the largest, most powerful, over compensations in the quadrant from TNG. The old 60s fanwank is now completely unnecessary and fails the razor.
As for the possition of Kronos, ENT was only following the fine example of Warp 14 and centre of the galaxy to its edge in days TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@artan42 : I personally don't see how that eliminates the technology deal. Nothing hints at not having diplomatic relation or a deep "inherited" hatred of each other pre-khitomer. The Romulan ships half a century later also are no indication for anything as in TOs they used the T'liss which was described as severly flawed, the D7 was superior and brought an edge in ship design, from there they went their way. And just because two races (I don't accept as being part of canon in my head, so maybe I'm too biased here ) being closer doesn't mean they can't have had good relations with the Romulans.
As I said, that's just me, but I still stick to the - if not alliance - at least technology treaty/exchange. That makes way more sense than Romulans stealing a fleet of D7s and Klingons stealing T'liss' and ripping the cloak out. In my opinion.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I play almost exclusively Klingon and I don't understand the concern about this. Especially if you don't play PvP much. That having been said, there is a Klingon ship that 'SHOULD HAVE A BATTLE CLOAK' that currently does not...the D7/K'tinga should have it. Cannon proof of this from the ST:Voyager episode: Prophecy. And that was a D7, not the more advanced K'tinga.
I play almost exclusively Klingon and I don't understand the concern about this. Especially if you don't play PvP much. That having been said, there is a Klingon ship that 'SHOULD HAVE A BATTLE CLOAK' that currently does not...the D7/K'tinga should have it. Cannon proof of this from the ST:Voyager episode: Prophecy. And that was a D7, not the more advanced K'tinga.
"battle cloak" and "cloak" are really only distinguished in STO for gameplay reasons. Canonically speaking there's no reason why you are unable to activate the one while in combat - It might be stupid, but even with battlecloak it might be a bad move because you are defenseless while you cloak and in BFAW land that will grill you.
No, there is no reason two kinds of cloaking devices exist other than depicting a different playstyle. Originally, Feds had no cloak, KDF had normal cloak for the surprise and ambush and then their ships stayed in the fight. "Battle cloak" was used on BoPs because they are fragile and were designed to hit and run. But differences in playstyle and tactics got mushed with the Romulans and since then the concept of having some diversity int he game was completely dropped in favour of basically the same old in other colours.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I play almost exclusively Klingon and I don't understand the concern about this. Especially if you don't play PvP much. That having been said, there is a Klingon ship that 'SHOULD HAVE A BATTLE CLOAK' that currently does not...the D7/K'tinga should have it. Cannon proof of this from the ST:Voyager episode: Prophecy. And that was a D7, not the more advanced K'tinga.
"battle cloak" and "cloak" are really only distinguished in STO for gameplay reasons. Canonically speaking there's no reason why you are unable to activate the one while in combat - It might be stupid, but even with battlecloak it might be a bad move because you are defenseless while you cloak and in BFAW land that will grill you.
No, there is no reason two kinds of cloaking devices exist other than depicting a different playstyle. Originally, Feds had no cloak, KDF had normal cloak for the surprise and ambush and then their ships stayed in the fight. "Battle cloak" was used on BoPs because they are fragile and were designed to hit and run. But differences in playstyle and tactics got mushed with the Romulans and since then the concept of having some diversity int he game was completely dropped in favour of basically the same old in other colours.
Right (alot of obvious stuff there), but what he said still stands. Even though BC and C are only differentionated in the game for gameplay balancing reasons, Defiant was reviewed it's cloaking system were uprated, what he's gaining at is that D7 (and thusly K'T'inga) should get the same treatment. Should is not the same as will, of course, Cryptic won't give a non intel battlecruiser a battle cloak (and technicly Qib is equipped with Enhanced BC), either passively or with some weird console loadout etc.
I always thought the Klingons got their cloak tech after that early episode of enterprise where trip got pregnant. Those aliens had been "latched" on to the Klingons and in order to not get blown up they traded their holo technology. The Klinglons don't seem like the type where the crew is playing with sherlock holmes or chilling in a 50's hotel in vegas. Since they saw the aliens use the same technology cloak their ship, just kind of made sense to me that the Klingons would just apply the technology the same way.
On a side note I feel all cloaks should be battle cloaks. The Defiant class ship got the cloak and it was originally an integrated cloak, then players complained and it became a console, now it gets a 3pc battle cloak and players are going to complain. I have been playing since day 2 of the game and I honestly can't remember the last time I PVP'ed. I probably haven't put the cloak on any of my Defiant class ships since about a week after it was available, other than when the Delta recruits came out and I just wanted to blitz through a few of the missions. I have all of the Defiant variants, I have always put the quads onto the ship, even though I know they are not optimal, because I love the look and sound. I have been playing with the new torpedo console, but know I have 5 or 6 other consoles that would most likely be better on the ship, and as a result I will never put the cloak on the ship. I'd be more tempted if the cloak was integrated as a 2pc set, and the current cloak console acted as an enhancement to the integrated cloak granting a battle cloak with a few other enhancements and boosts to the ship.
But Anyways To obtian Battle Cloak you will need a Phaser Quad Heavy Cannon A Cloaking device A Valliant Console (I guess) So the Only ship that should be able to cloak is Either the Escort or a Gal X to be able to use Battle Cloak I not sure with The Gal X tho. but Since If that been put to game teh only ship be able to cloak most likely be Valliant.
But the Qib don't have enhanced battle cloak. Just battlecloak. Only the B'rel T5 and T6 have it for KDF.
Yes, you're correct, I was thinking of Faeht. Anyway, Qib is therefore only BC with a Battle Cloak, but it's an intel ship, so as I said no way they'll add non intel battlecruisers battle cloak, and K'T'inga doesn't even have a T6 yet (and when it does, funny as it sounds, I'm expecting a command or even pilot, both before intel).
So feds now are getting a battle cloak. For those that don't know what I am talking about here is a cut/paste from the tribble patch notes:
Updated the Tactical Escort variant's Stealth Fighter item set to include the Phaser Quad Cannons.
This set now has a 3 piece bonus which upgrades the Cloaking Device's cloak to Battle Cloak.
Thanks cryptic *rolls eyes*. No real point in playing kdf or rom anymore. R.I.P. Kdf and Roms.
^^ And about frakkin' high time we did! YAY feds!
Seriously, Roms have been OP for years: it's high time they got 'nerfed' (aka, Feds got a buff, all depending on your POV). Now all we need is SFO's (Superior Federation Operatives) with 2.0% CrtH as well.
Tl;dr: if your only self-confessed reason to play Rom was to be OP, then you deserve this balanance pass more than anyone else!
...This is some 4chan level bait, right here... that can be the only explanation...
So feds now are getting a battle cloak. For those that don't know what I am talking about here is a cut/paste from the tribble patch notes:
Updated the Tactical Escort variant's Stealth Fighter item set to include the Phaser Quad Cannons.
This set now has a 3 piece bonus which upgrades the Cloaking Device's cloak to Battle Cloak.
Thanks cryptic *rolls eyes*. No real point in playing kdf or rom anymore. R.I.P. Kdf and Roms.
^^ And about frakkin' high time we did! YAY feds!
Seriously, Roms have been OP for years: it's high time they got 'nerfed' (aka, Feds got a buff, all depending on your POV). Now all we need is SFO's (Superior Federation Operatives) with 2.0% CrtH as well.
Tl;dr: if your only self-confessed reason to play Rom was to be OP, then you deserve this balanance pass more than anyone else!
...This is some 4chan level bait, right here... that can be the only explanation...
Yeah, don't even get the 4chan stuff, but I assume it's bad.
Anyway, the fuss is hilarious, really. Peeps are beatching about a 3-piece set bonus (that practially no one will use to begin with), that only brings one particular class of ships on par with Battle Cloak abilities Roms have. Big deal.
As I said, that's just me, but I still stick to the - if not alliance - at least technology treaty/exchange. That makes way more sense than Romulans stealing a fleet of D7s and Klingons stealing T'liss' and ripping the cloak out. In my opinion.
We don't know how many D7s the Romulans had, across all episodes we see them in about 6 ships are onscreen. This is near Klingon territory, it could just be the Romulans pissing about and mocking the Klingons for all we know.
Also, they still don't need to steal the T'Liss. I've already mentioned the Sulaban and Xrylians (I'm making up my own spelling here ). With the latter being the most likely.
I always thought the Klingons got their cloak tech after that early episode of enterprise where trip got pregnant. Those aliens had been "latched" on to the Klingons and in order to not get blown up they traded their holo technology.
That's the single most likely explanation. Once the NX had gone on its merry way the Klingons just nip back and steal the cloak. Next stop is popping up at the homeworld and taking all the cloaks and related tech.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I understand it. It's just that since TNG/DS9 and esepecially ENT the characterisation of the two race excludes a TOS piece of fanfic.
With the introduction of two races with cloaks near Klingon space in ENT and the establishment of Romulan ships being the largest, most powerful, over compensations in the quadrant from TNG. The old 60s fanwank is now completely unnecessary and fails the razor.
As for the possition of Kronos, ENT was only following the fine example of Warp 14 and centre of the galaxy to its edge in days TOS.
In the lead up to the Klingon Civil War in TNG Worf talked about the former alliance between the Romulans and Klingons, and later on in the story Riker used the specific words "A new Klingon Romulan alliance". So yes we are never shown specifically when this alliance was, but we are told that it happened.
It happened at Kitomer shortly before Worf's father was killed and after the Kitomer Accords. So after TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I am so hoping that they would adjust the quad cannons so that based on your engine power level it buffs the quad-cannon, such as increased rate of fire, or even a penetration buff for the quad cannon's damage. Most likelyt this would make them feel more interesting, more benefit from running high engine power outside off-setting the drain they have on your engine power, but also just make it more reasonable for them to be unique one per ship weapons. Though it is quite nice to finally have a battle-cloak on fed side so you can have abit more play-style variety in play on the fed side.
Well after listening to all this I decided to take a look at the Blish Novelization of 'The Enterprise Incident'. During the Officers meeting after they had been surrounded Spock has this dialog attributed to him after the point is brought up how they were so easily surrounded without knowing it:
'I believe the Romulans have devised an improved cloaking system that renders our tracking systems useless. You will observe, Captain, that the three ships outside are modelled after Klingon crusiers. Changing ship designs that drastically is expensive, and the Klingon crusier has no important inherent advantages of which we are aware - unless it is adaptable to some sort of novel screening device.' The first sentence matches the show, the rest is only in the novelization.
I know many of you will say 'piffle', not canon so worthless. Blish had written (or wife written) them based on Scripts, sometimes earlier versions of them, but nonetheless fairly contemporary of the Shows (1967 - 1975).
It begs the question of why did they go with the Klingon designs. Even on the TV Episode (bow to the Holy of holies), Spock says after the Romulans decloak, 'Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design'.
Not using Klingon ships but their designs. How did they get the designs? Steal it or trade for it. Not likely they would have traded the new prototype Cloaks but maybe the earlier version that was equipped on the Warbirds from 'Balance of Terror' and 'The Deadly Years'. Those seemed to be Battle Cloaks based upon combat interactions. Remember they had to decloak to fire the great orange ball of death. They don't in the game so maybe based upon that improved Cloaking device from 'The Enterprise Incident', they now have an Enhanced Battle Cloak.
I guess all of this is now moot, as the sky has fallen all around us because one freaking Federation Ship has one too at a two Console slot and Quad Phaser cost.
That they should all be Battle Cloaks to begin with is probably correct. I don't think I ever saw anyone waiting for the Red Alert Klaxon to stop before they could turn on the Cloak. Suggestions given above somewhere in the plethora of doom and gloom and reflective contemplations about Romulans having Enhanced Battle Cloaks over Klingon Battle Cloaks is probably spot on as well. With the B'Rel, et. al. being the Klingon's Defiant/Valiant exception, albeit with the capability inherent instead.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Honestly it is kinda odd to have it that a cloak can only be engaged after you get out of combat, since honestly what about being in combat makes it so unreliable that you can't activate it. To me it should be that you can cloak in or out of combat, but that cloaking in combat your stealth bonus from the cloak should be halved, or even just your total stealth score is halved when entering stealth in combat, since the sensors of other ships would be searching as well as on high alert while in red alert status.
I mainly play with fed toons so I don't know too much about battle cloaks, I won't argue with people who play mainly with Klingon and Romulan toons, but personally I think the battle cloak for some federation ships is cool. The cloak seemed kind of useless and I never used it, but now I use it a little more often. I don't think it would make a super difference because I still don't use it as much, but it does give fed toons a similar advantage as certain Klingon and Romulan ships.
I'm going to take a wild guess here, and assume the original complaint has more to do with PvP play, than any adherence with 'Trek canon. That's more likely in a MMO than a purist going on a rant.
As far as the canon goes, we're well past the Treaty of Algeron, which I may remind everyone was made with the Romulan Star Empire...and unless you're Tal Shiar, much of the galaxy doesn't see the RSE as the legit ruling body for the Romulans anymore. The Empire is history, long live the Republic (where have we heard that before?), and I believe events in the galaxy up to 2410 have made Algeron pretty much defunct at this point.
This doesn't mean we have to retrofit all of Starfleet with cloaks, but clearly the technology is gaining acceptance and use in Federation fleets.
@artan42 : I personally don't see how that eliminates the technology deal. Nothing hints at not having diplomatic relation or a deep "inherited" hatred of each other pre-khitomer. The Romulan ships half a century later also are no indication for anything as in TOs they used the T'liss which was described as severly flawed, the D7 was superior and brought an edge in ship design, from there they went their way. And just because two races (I don't accept as being part of canon in my head, so maybe I'm too biased here ) being closer doesn't mean they can't have had good relations with the Romulans.
As I said, that's just me, but I still stick to the - if not alliance - at least technology treaty/exchange. That makes way more sense than Romulans stealing a fleet of D7s and Klingons stealing T'liss' and ripping the cloak out. In my opinion.
Let's not bring sensibility of this thread. Because apparently stealing a fleet of D-7's is more feasible, right?
I understand it. It's just that since TNG/DS9 and esepecially ENT the characterisation of the two race excludes a TOS piece of fanfic.
With the introduction of two races with cloaks near Klingon space in ENT and the establishment of Romulan ships being the largest, most powerful, over compensations in the quadrant from TNG. The old 60s fanwank is now completely unnecessary and fails the razor.
As for the possition of Kronos, ENT was only following the fine example of Warp 14 and centre of the galaxy to its edge in days TOS.
In the lead up to the Klingon Civil War in TNG Worf talked about the former alliance between the Romulans and Klingons, and later on in the story Riker used the specific words "A new Klingon Romulan alliance". So yes we are never shown specifically when this alliance was, but we are told that it happened.
It happened at Kitomer shortly before Worf's father was killed and after the Kitomer Accords. So after TOS.
Again going to the Klingon civil war episodes Riker stated that the 2 empires had been blood enemies for 70 years, so the alliance had been over for 70 years, and Worf aint 70 in TNG. Therefore the alliance was not shortly before Mogh was killed.
You already know Worf's quote, don't pretend you don't. They were allies at Kitomer prior to the attack.
@artan42 : I personally don't see how that eliminates the technology deal. Nothing hints at not having diplomatic relation or a deep "inherited" hatred of each other pre-khitomer. The Romulan ships half a century later also are no indication for anything as in TOs they used the T'liss which was described as severly flawed, the D7 was superior and brought an edge in ship design, from there they went their way. And just because two races (I don't accept as being part of canon in my head, so maybe I'm too biased here ) being closer doesn't mean they can't have had good relations with the Romulans.
As I said, that's just me, but I still stick to the - if not alliance - at least technology treaty/exchange. That makes way more sense than Romulans stealing a fleet of D7s and Klingons stealing T'liss' and ripping the cloak out. In my opinion.
Let's not bring sensibility of this thread. Because apparently stealing a fleet of D-7's is more feasible, right?
What fleet? Three in 'The Enterprise Incident' one in 'The Survivor' and three in 'The Practical Joker'. That's even being generous enough to assume they are all different ships and not the same three in different paint jobs.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I always thought the Klingons got their cloak tech after that early episode of enterprise where trip got pregnant. Those aliens had been "latched" on to the Klingons and in order to not get blown up they traded their holo technology. The Klinglons don't seem like the type where the crew is playing with sherlock holmes or chilling in a 50's hotel in vegas. Since they saw the aliens use the same technology cloak their ship, just kind of made sense to me that the Klingons would just apply the technology the same way.
I always understood the Klingons got cloaking Techology from the Trade agrrement with the Romulans. Where the Klingons-exchanged D-7 Hulls and plans for the Cloak. This was hinted at in the TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident". Real reason the Romulans had the D-7 was the studio model of the Bird of PRey from Balence of Terror had been destroyed in some accident in the storage facility at Paramount.
What fleet? Three in 'The Enterprise Incident' one in 'The Survivor' and three in 'The Practical Joker'. That's even being generous enough to assume they are all different ships and not the same three in different paint jobs.
Why should we even assume it's the same ships in different paint jobs? Why is it feasible to assume they repainted the ship for whatever purpose? If the ship appears in canon and looks different it is a different ship as long as it isn't identified as the same ship. Everything else is wild speculation.
Even if we assume it's just eight, why would the Romulans steal eight ships and patrol the Klingon territory with them to "mock" the Klingons? The Klingons would roflstomp them for such a provocation and they know that, it wouldn't make sense from the Romulan in-character perspective, UNLESS provoking a war would somehow benefit them. Considering how sub-par their ships were (minus the cloak) I wouldn't expect a war with the Klingons to have any advantage for the RSE.
That's at least my reasoning.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Wait people are in frenzy over Quad Phaser Cannons? Hello Feds have had this since the Defiant Teir 4 or whatever it is. In other words a very long time.
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3- They could also have got it from the Xrylians. So with two species that live nearby with cloaks that the Klingons just have to go in and take vs. a powerful isolated race who are ideologically opposed to the Klingon Empire who would likely demand more than some ships in return.
As StarTrek.com isn't canon and is simply regurgitating the old out of date fanfic that no longer makes sense after the events of ENT, it doesn't really matter what they say.
Considering both Sulaban and Romulan cloaks are plug-and-play it'd be far easier for the Klingons to steal them than bother with making their own.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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StarTrek.com might not be canon (by definition) but it is the most official take on the matter we have. Bringing weird ENT races into the mix (a show that places Qo'nos within spitting distance of earth and took a load on all kinds of established canon mind you - hence only way to accept ENT is as a alternate post FC timeline otherwise you go insane
Canon - no information given, hints people developed a theory about but that's it.
Official take (not canonical) - Alliance
Everything else - wild speculation not supported by anything (certainly not better than what we can piece together with the canon we have)
In my personal hierarchy of sources (canon -> TMs -> behind the scenes, cut content, 'official' stuff -> everything else) it's still the alliance/technology deal.
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I understand it. It's just that since TNG/DS9 and esepecially ENT the characterisation of the two race excludes a TOS piece of fanfic.
With the introduction of two races with cloaks near Klingon space in ENT and the establishment of Romulan ships being the largest, most powerful, over compensations in the quadrant from TNG. The old 60s fanwank is now completely unnecessary and fails the razor.
As for the possition of Kronos, ENT was only following the fine example of Warp 14 and centre of the galaxy to its edge in days TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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As I said, that's just me, but I still stick to the - if not alliance - at least technology treaty/exchange. That makes way more sense than Romulans stealing a fleet of D7s and Klingons stealing T'liss' and ripping the cloak out. In my opinion.
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"battle cloak" and "cloak" are really only distinguished in STO for gameplay reasons. Canonically speaking there's no reason why you are unable to activate the one while in combat - It might be stupid, but even with battlecloak it might be a bad move because you are defenseless while you cloak and in BFAW land that will grill you.
No, there is no reason two kinds of cloaking devices exist other than depicting a different playstyle. Originally, Feds had no cloak, KDF had normal cloak for the surprise and ambush and then their ships stayed in the fight. "Battle cloak" was used on BoPs because they are fragile and were designed to hit and run. But differences in playstyle and tactics got mushed with the Romulans and since then the concept of having some diversity int he game was completely dropped in favour of basically the same old in other colours.
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Right (alot of obvious stuff there), but what he said still stands. Even though BC and C are only differentionated in the game for gameplay balancing reasons, Defiant was reviewed it's cloaking system were uprated, what he's gaining at is that D7 (and thusly K'T'inga) should get the same treatment. Should is not the same as will, of course, Cryptic won't give a non intel battlecruiser a battle cloak (and technicly Qib is equipped with Enhanced BC), either passively or with some weird console loadout etc.
On a side note I feel all cloaks should be battle cloaks. The Defiant class ship got the cloak and it was originally an integrated cloak, then players complained and it became a console, now it gets a 3pc battle cloak and players are going to complain. I have been playing since day 2 of the game and I honestly can't remember the last time I PVP'ed. I probably haven't put the cloak on any of my Defiant class ships since about a week after it was available, other than when the Delta recruits came out and I just wanted to blitz through a few of the missions. I have all of the Defiant variants, I have always put the quads onto the ship, even though I know they are not optimal, because I love the look and sound. I have been playing with the new torpedo console, but know I have 5 or 6 other consoles that would most likely be better on the ship, and as a result I will never put the cloak on the ship. I'd be more tempted if the cloak was integrated as a 2pc set, and the current cloak console acted as an enhancement to the integrated cloak granting a battle cloak with a few other enhancements and boosts to the ship.
Yes, you're correct, I was thinking of Faeht. Anyway, Qib is therefore only BC with a Battle Cloak, but it's an intel ship, so as I said no way they'll add non intel battlecruisers battle cloak, and K'T'inga doesn't even have a T6 yet (and when it does, funny as it sounds, I'm expecting a command or even pilot, both before intel).
...This is some 4chan level bait, right here... that can be the only explanation...
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Yeah, don't even get the 4chan stuff, but I assume it's bad.
Anyway, the fuss is hilarious, really. Peeps are beatching about a 3-piece set bonus (that practially no one will use to begin with), that only brings one particular class of ships on par with Battle Cloak abilities Roms have. Big deal.
We don't know how many D7s the Romulans had, across all episodes we see them in about 6 ships are onscreen. This is near Klingon territory, it could just be the Romulans pissing about and mocking the Klingons for all we know.
Also, they still don't need to steal the T'Liss. I've already mentioned the Sulaban and Xrylians (I'm making up my own spelling here
That's the single most likely explanation. Once the NX had gone on its merry way the Klingons just nip back and steal the cloak. Next stop is popping up at the homeworld and taking all the cloaks and related tech.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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It happened at Kitomer shortly before Worf's father was killed and after the Kitomer Accords. So after TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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'I believe the Romulans have devised an improved cloaking system that renders our tracking systems useless. You will observe, Captain, that the three ships outside are modelled after Klingon crusiers. Changing ship designs that drastically is expensive, and the Klingon crusier has no important inherent advantages of which we are aware - unless it is adaptable to some sort of novel screening device.' The first sentence matches the show, the rest is only in the novelization.
I know many of you will say 'piffle', not canon so worthless. Blish had written (or wife written) them based on Scripts, sometimes earlier versions of them, but nonetheless fairly contemporary of the Shows (1967 - 1975).
It begs the question of why did they go with the Klingon designs. Even on the TV Episode (bow to the Holy of holies), Spock says after the Romulans decloak, 'Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design'.
Not using Klingon ships but their designs. How did they get the designs? Steal it or trade for it. Not likely they would have traded the new prototype Cloaks but maybe the earlier version that was equipped on the Warbirds from 'Balance of Terror' and 'The Deadly Years'. Those seemed to be Battle Cloaks based upon combat interactions. Remember they had to decloak to fire the great orange ball of death. They don't in the game so maybe based upon that improved Cloaking device from 'The Enterprise Incident', they now have an Enhanced Battle Cloak.
I guess all of this is now moot, as the sky has fallen all around us because one freaking Federation Ship has one too at a two Console slot and Quad Phaser cost.
That they should all be Battle Cloaks to begin with is probably correct. I don't think I ever saw anyone waiting for the Red Alert Klaxon to stop before they could turn on the Cloak. Suggestions given above somewhere in the plethora of doom and gloom and reflective contemplations about Romulans having Enhanced Battle Cloaks over Klingon Battle Cloaks is probably spot on as well. With the B'Rel, et. al. being the Klingon's Defiant/Valiant exception, albeit with the capability inherent instead.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As far as the canon goes, we're well past the Treaty of Algeron, which I may remind everyone was made with the Romulan Star Empire...and unless you're Tal Shiar, much of the galaxy doesn't see the RSE as the legit ruling body for the Romulans anymore. The Empire is history, long live the Republic (where have we heard that before?), and I believe events in the galaxy up to 2410 have made Algeron pretty much defunct at this point.
This doesn't mean we have to retrofit all of Starfleet with cloaks, but clearly the technology is gaining acceptance and use in Federation fleets.
Let's not bring sensibility of this thread. Because apparently stealing a fleet of D-7's is more feasible, right?
You already know Worf's quote, don't pretend you don't. They were allies at Kitomer prior to the attack.
That was 2346. It is that alliance Riker is referring to here...
What fleet? Three in 'The Enterprise Incident' one in 'The Survivor' and three in 'The Practical Joker'. That's even being generous enough to assume they are all different ships and not the same three in different paint jobs.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Why should we even assume it's the same ships in different paint jobs? Why is it feasible to assume they repainted the ship for whatever purpose? If the ship appears in canon and looks different it is a different ship as long as it isn't identified as the same ship. Everything else is wild speculation.
Even if we assume it's just eight, why would the Romulans steal eight ships and patrol the Klingon territory with them to "mock" the Klingons? The Klingons would roflstomp them for such a provocation and they know that, it wouldn't make sense from the Romulan in-character perspective, UNLESS provoking a war would somehow benefit them. Considering how sub-par their ships were (minus the cloak) I wouldn't expect a war with the Klingons to have any advantage for the RSE.
That's at least my reasoning.
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