Why would you even suggest such a thing? If they even hint at anything like that, I am out of here. It really is just that simple.
Hey, if you really want to put money towards this game, buy a bunch of zen. Spend it on costumes or ships or keys for lockboxes. You already have a million ways to spend your money on this game. If you want to contribute, do it.
No. Cryptic has generated a pretty reasonable system for F2P - content is never behind a pay-wall, but you can still spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on this game if you wish to.
If the past 2 expansions did not require purchase, than any future ones shouldn't need it either.
Also, just because we imagine something doesn't make it feasible. I am not sure if it was Geko or Tacofangs that once said it, but an expansion is always a gamble. You have to front a lot of money to develop something and then you hope the sales will suffice to cover the cost and yield some extra profit. That means that the idea that Cryptic would make an even bigger expansion than LOR or DR are not very high - the risks are just increasing - spending more money on a new model that you have no experience with and that you deliberately avoided now,making your customer accumsomted to your approach? An even bigger gamble.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
As everyone is saying, this free to play model is very good. This idea would completely break the one thing that this game has going for it outside of the IP.
Content is already very expensive as it is. I can only assume that whatever the profit margins from it are, little of it gets reinvested into STO considering the basic aspects of the game (server stability, game stability, game-breaking bugs) don't seem to be prioritized all that well considering the rate of new problems in comparison to the rate of fixes and failed fixes.
A lot of grind, cash, and dedicated time goes into acquiring the stuff and unlocking things. The sudden appearance of a new exploration area along with unique content that's off limits (pay to play) in an already content-starved game where gameplay dynamics too have stagnated (or worse, have completely unbalanced PvP) is guaranteed to send as bad a message as possible: there's nothing new to do with everything available in the C-store and in lockboxes, so either pay for every expansion or don't bother with the game and everything already acquired.
A mandatory cross-faction ship pack megabundle that comes with such an expansion would work against itself, forcing players who may already own many of the exact same ship types and classes to pay for them all over again (after already doing so nearly every Tier up), or to pay for content they may not play (different factions), or ship types that really do not interest them.
Many more ships have been released for KDF & Roms now and hopefully that trend continues. I really don't think a Delta Rising-type ship pack now would not go well anymore for that reason, and would also cut into the megabundle and other cross-faction pack sales.
I'll spare the doom and say the game is a lot more empty now than I remember it before DR. Not hard to imagine what would happen if the majority of players get left out, while also isolating those who would pay2play.
In summary: No.
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It's too late for STO to follow the WoW model; it would have had to be done for LoR and DR. Anyway, they get their money from ship sales when new expansions come out.
"Intelligence is finite, stupidity is infinite" -- Umberto Eco
I would pay for a large EP--depending, of course. If it was just superficial stuff (like fancy new ships and costumes), then no, but if it added new content in the form of new worlds to explore, new storylines (but separate from the main one), and new gameplay mechanics (like owning/renting a space), then yes, I would pay for it.
My Foundry Mission--Name: Falling Star | Mission ID: HQIH36HAW | Faction: FED
A pay expansion is unnecessary as STO gets content updates more regularly than WoW. Unlike the every few years that WoW gets new content, STO gets it all the time by comparison. I think we average about 2 season updates a year, with the odd Expansion update that is much bigger.
While we do get more content on a regular basis, we don't have the support for waiting a year or two at a time for a full fledged expansion like WoW. Not enough content to hold us over. I'm fine with the current content update system we have now as it doesn't block the majority of the players behind a paywall. All content is available.
Like the vast majority have already said, no, I wouldn't pay for expansions when we already got the previous ones for free. I can't even afford to get off F2P and become a LTS (yet, I'm saving, but it'll take time).
I love being able to play free and buy things as I need/want them. If it went to paid expansions, then I would not like that at all.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
What I would pay for, beside some new ships (already got so many that I'm not really interested in acquiring even more) would be something that would give a different player experience.
New playable species for example. Perhaps new types of BOFFs or ground combat pets. New interiors.
Just some small things that wouldn't result in too much division between the 'have's and the have-nots' but that could still give an unique and exclusive experience to those that support the game financially.
I wouldn't pay for a paid expansion. They have enough paywalls set up that I'd sooner take my business elsewhere to a more ethical game studio/publisher than to fork over $50 to beta test their banal content.
Adding a content paywall on top of the paywalls already in the game.
There are no paywalls in this game, and an expansion pack wouldn't even come close to filling the definition of a pay wall. People need to stop throwing around words like "paywall" and similar pejoratives (like "pay to win") around like that around to justify not paying for content. If people don't want to pay for content, then just say so. No need to start crying "paywall" to do so.
My Foundry Mission--Name: Falling Star | Mission ID: HQIH36HAW | Faction: FED
No. Because paid expansions split the player base into those who can afford it and those who can't. Suddenly those who can't find themselves not being able to play with their friends or fleet mates who can. I've dealt with that in other MMOs over the years and hate it. No paid expansions.
its been working out just fine for the guild wars games and wow for years
No. Because paid expansions split the player base into those who can afford it and those who can't. Suddenly those who can't find themselves not being able to play with their friends or fleet mates who can. I've dealt with that in other MMOs over the years and hate it. No paid expansions.
its been working out just fine for the guild wars games and wow for years
STO is a F2P game. Guild Wars is a Buy 2 Play game. I won't comment on WOW because I'm one of those that never played it.
The costs in STO can get real stupid. How many threads do we get around here when a new lockbox / event promo pack comes out where players spend huge cash and don't get the ship they're after? The ships in the C-Store aren't cheap. Lobi Store ships are expensive considering they are single character purchases.
Stuff like not being able to do Borg STFs without unlocking that in the z-store for example... yeah, that seems like a stupid idea to me.
Some companies go several huge steps further on the slippery slope of F2P. Oh hell, I had a GRAND time with the stupid costs involved with World of Warships before I left that Milking Machine.
Adding a content paywall on top of the paywalls already in the game.
There are no paywalls in this game, and an expansion pack wouldn't even come close to filling the definition of a pay wall. People need to stop throwing around words like "paywall" and similar pejoratives (like "pay to win") around like that around to justify not paying for content. If people don't want to pay for content, then just say so. No need to start crying "paywall" to do so.
What's your definition of paywall? IF you have to pay to get to certain content, it's a paywall.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Adding a content paywall on top of the paywalls already in the game.
There are no paywalls in this game, and an expansion pack wouldn't even come close to filling the definition of a pay wall. People need to stop throwing around words like "paywall" and similar pejoratives (like "pay to win") around like that around to justify not paying for content. If people don't want to pay for content, then just say so. No need to start crying "paywall" to do so.
What's your definition of paywall? IF you have to pay to get to certain content, it's a paywall.
I don't *have* a definition of a paywall. There is just the exact definition of a paywall that has always existed, and that's any system in which customers have to pay a subscription to access content. Every single website that defines this word defines it the exact same way:
Paywalls are systems designed to monetize online and other digital information by preventing visitors from accessing web sites and similar content providers without having a paid subscription. http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/P/paywall.html
I would further add to the definition by saying that in terms of MMOs, the content that's locked away has to be "significant"--in other words, is such a major part of gameplay that without it, the game would be unplayable. In other words, gamers who hit the paywall would either have to fork over the cash to play or quit entirely, because there's no more gameplay or content available.
For example, if STO said, "You can't level up past 30 without paying $5/mo," that would be a paywall. If STO said the same about playing in the Delta Quadrant or visiting places like New Romulus/Dyson Sphere, then those would be paywalls--not just because you would have to pay a monthly/yearly fee to access that gameplay, but because leveling up, the Delta Quadrant and New Romulus are a large part of STO.
Paywalls have always meant that. It's only recently that people have been playing fast and loose with the term to justify not paying for anything. "Oh, I have to pay a one time micro-transaction for this. Stupid paywall!" "I have to pay an extra $30 for an expansion pack! Stupid paywall!" "I have to pay $3 for this piece of DLC. Stupid paywall!"
No. DLC, expansion packs, micro transactions, and having to pay an additional, one time fee just to play premium content =/= paywall, no matter how many people keep trying to claim it is.
Even if I went by your definition of paywall ("IF you have to pay to get to certain content, it's a paywall."), nothing in STO would qualify as a paywall, because you don't have to pay for most of the premium content in this game. You can earn it instead in-game.
My Foundry Mission--Name: Falling Star | Mission ID: HQIH36HAW | Faction: FED
No. Because paid expansions split the player base into those who can afford it and those who can't. Suddenly those who can't find themselves not being able to play with their friends or fleet mates who can. I've dealt with that in other MMOs over the years and hate it. No paid expansions.
its been working out just fine for the guild wars games and wow for years
STO is a F2P game. Guild Wars is a Buy 2 Play game. I won't comment on WOW because I'm one of those that never played it.
The costs in STO can get real stupid. How many threads do we get around here when a new lockbox / event promo pack comes out where players spend huge cash and don't get the ship they're after? The ships in the C-Store aren't cheap. Lobi Store ships are expensive considering they are single character purchases.
Stuff like not being able to do Borg STFs without unlocking that in the z-store for example... yeah, that seems like a stupid idea to me.
Some companies go several huge steps further on the slippery slope of F2P. Oh hell, I had a GRAND time with the stupid costs involved with World of Warships before I left that Milking Machine.
they are not making has much money has you think from people buying c-store ships and lobi ships.tons of people are buying these ships,keys with zen they got by selling dil.it doesn't take long at all to make enough dil to sell for zen to get a ship. only 8k dil a day doesn't sound like much tell you have players that have 5+ toons making 8k dil each a day
Back in the Beta days when Atari ran the gig you needed to pay for each 30 days you wanted to play STO. It wasn't a high fee and it was just normal. No one complained and Atari used the money to actually fix bugs and add new content.. More money = more man power. But then Atari backed out? And now it's halted to a crawl with new content and bug fixes.
If it was up to me, I'd rather pay each 30 days and have the game spew out new content and patches like in the old days!
Even if I went by your definition of paywall ("IF you have to pay to get to certain content, it's a paywall."), nothing in STO would qualify as a paywall, because you don't have to pay for most of the premium content in this game. You can earn it instead in-game.
You can earn most premium content in game? No you can't. As f2pdrakron has pointed out, there is no free Zen. All C-Store items (barring a few minor giveaways every year) are bought and paid for with real money. They all have a price tag, and if you grind dilithium to avoid paying it yourself that doesn't change that fact one iota.
Remind me, how many C-Store items can you buy without ever having any access to Zen? It's right around zero, correct? Now remind me how much Zen can be acquired without money being spent? The answer there is, again, right around zero. As said, all Zen in this game is bought with real money (including Zen from stipends, which is bought via subscription). Even if YOU didn't buy the Zen someone did. It is not being earned in-game, it is being paid for by someone, even if not necessarily you. The only way your statement would be accurate is if you could buy C-Store items from Cryptic directly for dilithium instead of buying them with someone else's Zen.
Here's the litmus test: If people stop posting Zen on the Exchange and the supply there drys up, and you keep grinding dilithium... how many premium items can you earn in-game with said dilithium? Zero, right? Why? Because no one is PAYING for those items.
So yeah, if his definition is that content that must be paid for is behind a paywall... it applies. No matter how much dilithium you grind for that content still must be paid for. It's that simple, so your refutation of his example is entirely and fundamentally wrong.
Pro-tip: When someone else picks up the tab that doesn't make your drinks free.
Comments
Hey, if you really want to put money towards this game, buy a bunch of zen. Spend it on costumes or ships or keys for lockboxes. You already have a million ways to spend your money on this game. If you want to contribute, do it.
I say no just so I do not have to read an increase of doom or flaming threads.
If the past 2 expansions did not require purchase, than any future ones shouldn't need it either.
Also, just because we imagine something doesn't make it feasible. I am not sure if it was Geko or Tacofangs that once said it, but an expansion is always a gamble. You have to front a lot of money to develop something and then you hope the sales will suffice to cover the cost and yield some extra profit. That means that the idea that Cryptic would make an even bigger expansion than LOR or DR are not very high - the risks are just increasing - spending more money on a new model that you have no experience with and that you deliberately avoided now,making your customer accumsomted to your approach? An even bigger gamble.
As everyone is saying, this free to play model is very good. This idea would completely break the one thing that this game has going for it outside of the IP.
Content is already very expensive as it is. I can only assume that whatever the profit margins from it are, little of it gets reinvested into STO considering the basic aspects of the game (server stability, game stability, game-breaking bugs) don't seem to be prioritized all that well considering the rate of new problems in comparison to the rate of fixes and failed fixes.
A lot of grind, cash, and dedicated time goes into acquiring the stuff and unlocking things. The sudden appearance of a new exploration area along with unique content that's off limits (pay to play) in an already content-starved game where gameplay dynamics too have stagnated (or worse, have completely unbalanced PvP) is guaranteed to send as bad a message as possible: there's nothing new to do with everything available in the C-store and in lockboxes, so either pay for every expansion or don't bother with the game and everything already acquired.
A mandatory cross-faction ship pack megabundle that comes with such an expansion would work against itself, forcing players who may already own many of the exact same ship types and classes to pay for them all over again (after already doing so nearly every Tier up), or to pay for content they may not play (different factions), or ship types that really do not interest them.
Many more ships have been released for KDF & Roms now and hopefully that trend continues. I really don't think a Delta Rising-type ship pack now would not go well anymore for that reason, and would also cut into the megabundle and other cross-faction pack sales.
I'll spare the doom and say the game is a lot more empty now than I remember it before DR. Not hard to imagine what would happen if the majority of players get left out, while also isolating those who would pay2play.
In summary: No.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
lol no
My character Tsin'xing
While we do get more content on a regular basis, we don't have the support for waiting a year or two at a time for a full fledged expansion like WoW. Not enough content to hold us over. I'm fine with the current content update system we have now as it doesn't block the majority of the players behind a paywall. All content is available.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I love being able to play free and buy things as I need/want them. If it went to paid expansions, then I would not like that at all.
New playable species for example. Perhaps new types of BOFFs or ground combat pets. New interiors.
Just some small things that wouldn't result in too much division between the 'have's and the have-nots' but that could still give an unique and exclusive experience to those that support the game financially.
There are no paywalls in this game, and an expansion pack wouldn't even come close to filling the definition of a pay wall. People need to stop throwing around words like "paywall" and similar pejoratives (like "pay to win") around like that around to justify not paying for content. If people don't want to pay for content, then just say so. No need to start crying "paywall" to do so.
My character Tsin'xing
STO is a F2P game. Guild Wars is a Buy 2 Play game. I won't comment on WOW because I'm one of those that never played it.
The costs in STO can get real stupid. How many threads do we get around here when a new lockbox / event promo pack comes out where players spend huge cash and don't get the ship they're after? The ships in the C-Store aren't cheap. Lobi Store ships are expensive considering they are single character purchases.
And people still want more costs involved in STO?
Some companies go several huge steps further on the slippery slope of F2P. Oh hell, I had a GRAND time with the stupid costs involved with World of Warships before I left that Milking Machine.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I don't *have* a definition of a paywall. There is just the exact definition of a paywall that has always existed, and that's any system in which customers have to pay a subscription to access content. Every single website that defines this word defines it the exact same way:
I would further add to the definition by saying that in terms of MMOs, the content that's locked away has to be "significant"--in other words, is such a major part of gameplay that without it, the game would be unplayable. In other words, gamers who hit the paywall would either have to fork over the cash to play or quit entirely, because there's no more gameplay or content available.
For example, if STO said, "You can't level up past 30 without paying $5/mo," that would be a paywall. If STO said the same about playing in the Delta Quadrant or visiting places like New Romulus/Dyson Sphere, then those would be paywalls--not just because you would have to pay a monthly/yearly fee to access that gameplay, but because leveling up, the Delta Quadrant and New Romulus are a large part of STO.
Paywalls have always meant that. It's only recently that people have been playing fast and loose with the term to justify not paying for anything. "Oh, I have to pay a one time micro-transaction for this. Stupid paywall!" "I have to pay an extra $30 for an expansion pack! Stupid paywall!" "I have to pay $3 for this piece of DLC. Stupid paywall!"
No. DLC, expansion packs, micro transactions, and having to pay an additional, one time fee just to play premium content =/= paywall, no matter how many people keep trying to claim it is.
Even if I went by your definition of paywall ("IF you have to pay to get to certain content, it's a paywall."), nothing in STO would qualify as a paywall, because you don't have to pay for most of the premium content in this game. You can earn it instead in-game.
If it was up to me, I'd rather pay each 30 days and have the game spew out new content and patches like in the old days!
You can earn most premium content in game? No you can't. As f2pdrakron has pointed out, there is no free Zen. All C-Store items (barring a few minor giveaways every year) are bought and paid for with real money. They all have a price tag, and if you grind dilithium to avoid paying it yourself that doesn't change that fact one iota.
Remind me, how many C-Store items can you buy without ever having any access to Zen? It's right around zero, correct? Now remind me how much Zen can be acquired without money being spent? The answer there is, again, right around zero. As said, all Zen in this game is bought with real money (including Zen from stipends, which is bought via subscription). Even if YOU didn't buy the Zen someone did. It is not being earned in-game, it is being paid for by someone, even if not necessarily you. The only way your statement would be accurate is if you could buy C-Store items from Cryptic directly for dilithium instead of buying them with someone else's Zen.
Here's the litmus test: If people stop posting Zen on the Exchange and the supply there drys up, and you keep grinding dilithium... how many premium items can you earn in-game with said dilithium? Zero, right? Why? Because no one is PAYING for those items.
So yeah, if his definition is that content that must be paid for is behind a paywall... it applies. No matter how much dilithium you grind for that content still must be paid for. It's that simple, so your refutation of his example is entirely and fundamentally wrong.
Pro-tip: When someone else picks up the tab that doesn't make your drinks free.