They REALLY needed to specify some clear reason why we could not reignite the star. Given that they didn't, I can't even rationalize this like I did the plot holes in the Iconian War. This will be non-canon to ALL versions of my characters, completely.
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It also breaks with the narrative progression up until now. It's clear in the previous FE that the Na'kuhl basically told us, in no uncertain terms, to go TRIBBLE ourselves and die in a fire. They don't want our help. And combined with Captain Walker's comments regarding them, you get the impression that they stuck to that, and we shouldn't change things. In their eyes, the Alliance was just as responsible for their dying homeworld as the Tholians (not to mention, people from a future time period where folks are rather cavalier with time travel). And now, they want our help in a major way? They accept our offers to take them in? Sorry, I'm not seeing it. If anything, they are hostile and bitter. And they are NOT in a forgiving mood.
A common knock on lots of science fiction works, including sometimes Star Trek itself, is that humanity is always portrayed as being a very diverse group of competing beliefs and interests, and aliens are generally portrayed as monolithic: everyone thinking exactly the same way, believing exactly the same things, and acting in exactly the same way. Its actually more realistic to me to portray the Na'kuhl government as taking one position, but the Na'kuhl people as not all willing to go down with the ship with them. In every conflict there are refugees, and they usually don't care about what governments say, at least not enough to avoid doing whatever they can to save themselves when possible.
Even if some of the Na'kuhl don't officially want Federation or Alliance help, there's still the matter of millions of Na'kuhl refugees trying to escape their dying homeworld and looking for somewhere to go. The Na'Kuhl may not want us to come to them, but they are still coming to us, because there's not many options for them to go.
This was a really good read. It could very well be a good basis for a great novel. I would very much like to see where this is going, and how the event with the Tox Uthat and further events have shaped the Na’kuhl's resolve when it comes to [cue everyone's shivering at the mention of this] Temporal Cold War. [An underdeveloped story line that had a lot of potential, but still a good attempt to make Enterprise stand on it's own] This Future Proof story arc we are currently in has loads of potential to not only take STO to the area of exploration, discovery, and new encounters, but it also has the potential to flush out a whole new faction caused by the Alliance's tampering with time travel. Seriously, With all the tampering with time travel in the Iconian War, Spectres, and the end of the Klingon War story arcs, what all has been changed? Wouldn't it be an awesome idea if a whole new [dare I say it?] playable faction that has risen has a result of temporal tampering, a faction that begins their story arcs where the Future Proof Story Begins?
This is also an opportunity to expand on post-war story arcs that are faction-specific. Someone with a lot of characters might find it dull after a while playing the same episode 20+ times per week just for a spec point and a new trinket. A nice 15-episode [5 episodes per faction] set around rebuilding, restoration, and new discoveries, leading into new events and interweaving the episodes to tell a complete story. [I would try to accomplish that in the Foundry, but I don't have the know-how to operate the Foundry that well.]
I do like the references to previous series, but the Ten-Forward reference needed to be something different. An example would be the name of the Enterprise-E's lounge, The Happy Bottom Riding Club [TNG novel Resistance by J.M. Dillard], named by Captain Riker before his departure from the Enterprise to command the Titan. A unique name for the crew lounge would have been great for the Enterprise-F, especially if it was named by a former Enterprise officer, such as La Forge. But that is just an opinion. It would have carried on a tradition used in those novels. But, I do still like the nod to previous Trek series.
It would be nice to see other actors and actresses return to reprise their respective roles. Who doesn't want to see Kira kick some TRIBBLE in the 25th century?
Overall, a very good read. I look forward to new sippets of story to set up the next FE.
On a completely unrelated note, with the launch of the Armada system, will we see, in the future as all fleets in each armada maxes out, Armada Holdings? And, in theory, would that possibly introduce a new variant of ships, equipment, and other trinkets?
Lwaxana Troi...does EVERY race except humans (and Xindi insectoids) have longer life spans than us?
Also, the comment about the Tux Utat...can someone tell me why we hI'd it inserted of destroying it? O_o
Because it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. We were meant to hide it so it could be found and destroyed in our past by Jean Luc Picard (see TNG episode S03E19 "Captain's Holiday")
Regarding Na'kuhl eyes, I actually don't think that's a dev mess-up. The Na'kuhl didn't have hair either in Enterprise. Similar to the Suliban Cabal, I suspected immediately that the Na'kuhl altered themselves in pursuit of the master race philosophy that we saw in ENT.
Given that the only ones we saw were Vosk and his associates... It's possible they weren't average Na'kuhl.
And from me, too! Yes, I see what you did there, and it was great, you made a great and uplifting bit of Trek out of it. Very Federation take on the question from Shon.
I agree, it makes sense if you assume that the Na'khul government are still saying "stuff you" but these people are just the segment of the population that are totally ignoring them. And if there's more than one group of Na'kuhl in play doing different things, then that means we could have a sciencey story with another lot of them!
They REALLY needed to specify some clear reason why we could not reignite the star.
Yes, I thought they rather skated over that too. Why was it? Given the importance of the fact that you couldn't reignite the star, they needed to make the distinction between Na'khul's sun and Lukari's sun a little more obvious, like, say, the remnant exploding... (OK, not exploding, the Na'khul would have been blown up, but maybe collapsing into a brown dwarf or something like that.)
"You fight for control of nations...we dominate entire worlds. We extend our will across time. If your race were to endure for a million years, you couldn't begin to approach what we've accomplished."
– Vosk, 1944 ("Storm Front, Part II")
The Na'kuhl were a species that evolved to gain a certain degree of control over time. During the 29th century, they were a faction in the Temporal Cold War – vehemently opposed to the Temporal Accord – and were led by Vosk, a dangerous fanatic who viewed time travel as his innate right despite the damage that consequently might be done to the timeline.
STO Devs: Please show more canon background information on your featured races and/or characters in the future. Showing this would help all players, regardless of their level of knowledge on the game. Trek minutia is almost essential to the success of Star Trek itself!
“Only one, sir… my tail,” She winced as her captain arched a single eyebrow in response. “One of the Na’kuhl youngsters gave it a good stomping when I broke up their wargames.”
I swear I heard a sharp, long-drawn "MEEEOOW!" reading those lines... Poor Kyona XD
Shon chuckled, taking a moment to look out of a nearby window in 10 Forward.
I thought the crew lounge for each ship carries a different name by tradition O.o
Then again, the name "Enterprise" is an entirely different story in itself.
Shon has a lot of mistrust to fix with the Na'kuhl But it's nice to see that at least some of them are indeed accepting Federation aid from members like Bajor, Betazed, Denobula and Trill, and even non-aligned worlds like Lukari Prime. - I'd love to know more! ^^
What's up with the "schism" in the Federation Council about helping the Na'kuhl? They may have ties with the Breen and the Tzenkethi -- so what?
We know that things are... tense with the Breen from previous episodes, and we haven't seen or heard nothing about the Tzenkethi yet, much less of hostilities in the 25th century; but that doesn't mean that we should recoil from assisting the Na'kuhl, or that every Na'kuhl citizen is a spy.
Btw -- So the Tzenkethi are still at some kind of cold war with the Federation / Alliance then?
Very good read! It may be too much to ask / hope for, buuuut can we haz cutscenes that cover little scenes like this every once in a while?
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
What killed the franchise was IMO less technobabble but bad writing which didn't bother with character consistency, recycled old plots, and when it DID go into technobabble, just went the cheap "reverse the polarity of Seven's nanoprobes and fire 'em out the deflector dish" route instead of starting from a solid premise. What people had a problem with on that side was IMO merely a symptom of the real problem with the writing. Similarly, I see this rather shallow (and inconsistent) treatment of the Na'kuhl to try to be "timely" as merely a symptom of a generally lax approach to plots that has appeared all the way back to the Iconian War...one I had hoped would be broken by doing something innovative and different, and that I am now a lot less hopeful about.
I know people have different opinions but my expectation if one is going to be doing a morality play is actually a MUCH higher level of art and subtlety/nuance that I am not seeing here, and that to me just ties in with other inconsistencies and writing weaknesses I have seen of other kinds.
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What killed the franchise was IMO less technobabble but bad writing which didn't bother with character consistency, recycled old plots, and when it DID go into technobabble, just went the cheap "reverse the polarity of Seven's nanoprobes and fire 'em out the deflector dish" route instead of starting from a solid premise. What people had a problem with on that side was IMO merely a symptom of the real problem with the writing. Similarly, I see this rather shallow (and inconsistent) treatment of the Na'kuhl to try to be "timely" as merely a symptom of a generally lax approach to plots that has appeared all the way back to the Iconian War...one I had hoped would be broken by doing something innovative and different, and that I am now a lot less hopeful about.
I know people have different opinions but my expectation if one is going to be doing a morality play is actually a MUCH higher level of art and subtlety/nuance that I am not seeing here, and that to me just ties in with other inconsistencies and writing weaknesses I have seen of other kinds.
Well, Vosk is from a future sect of Na'kuhl. we don't even know how much farther in the future.
As for morality plays... I usually think they're trite and contrived.... doesn't matter what decade they're from. 40s... 60s... 2010... doesn't matter. Usually either the morality takes a back seat to action, or it's just dumb. the only one I can really think of I liked was the one with Gul Darheel.
Also, the comment about the Tux Utat...can someone tell me why we hI'd it inserted of destroying it? O_o
Considering the events of "Sunrise", I figured Kal Dano wasn't very confident in his, or the player's, ability to keep the Tholians from stealing it again before he got done reigniting the Na'kuhl star with it.
DS9 is where I think we got the kind of subtlety I want to see, and oddly enough, it even seems like late seasons of ENT may have delivered a bit of it too. "Duet" is well played, but a LOT of DS9 episodes that touch controversial issues are IMO far superior to their Anvilicious counterparts in TNG that beat you over the head with the Writer-Endorsed Perspective and often give the leads cardboard cutouts to fight and pontificate to. DS9 made you have to stop and think and in some cases even have to consider which side you were on or if both sides were wrong. Even when a villain is obviously in the wrong, there's more to them than an obvious pastiche or parody--and IMO you get better self-examination in your viewers when you go the subtler route. When it comes down to it I am ultimately a Niner even more than I would consider myself a stereotypical Trekkie, though all of the rest of it has at least *some* stuff that is good.
I won't spoil it for people who haven't seen it yet, but that's what I am finding promising about The Man in the High Castle so far: there are certain characters that are utterly abhorrent but you're shown enough depth to them that you have to ask serious questions about how they could have gotten that way and how they maintain the type of doublethink required (and IF they can do it forever). This Ferris guy is no comparison to an Inspector Kido or a Smith...he's more of a pause, roll eyes at obvious cartoonish reference, and move on. If you ask me, the BEST way to realize a villain is to make the viewer actually have to question if they could somehow be pushed across the line and to do that, the only way to do it is depth.
In STO, I think one of the best adversaries we've had has been the Vaadwaur. You can't just judge that situation on the first look, even though the Vaadwaur HAVE done evil and that can't be denied. I am just not seeing something of that quality here since all it did was copy/paste the news in a way that looks clumsy to me.
Oh...and JJ actually managed to get more of a "pause and think" out of me with his take on Khan than Roddenberry. There. I said it!
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"Kyona nodded in reply, stirring her Risian tea somewhat absently. “That he did, although he couldn’t resist another very logical recommendation for the use of an armored tail sheath while on duty."
Armored... Tail... Sheaths...
We're getting those right? cuz kitty M.A.C.O. armor could like... use all of that
@gulberat that's why I liked Exodus so much in the comics. He's really old(he was an actual crusader!), and has a weird perspective on life. But he genuinely wants to make the world a better place.
This sort of thing is why I like the concept of a non-villainous antagonist. It's a person with different goals than yours who is competing with you for something. Not because they're a bad person really, but because their goals conflict with yours.
I really don't do comics but sometimes I like X-Men and Magneto is another example of a truly realized villain who is chilling because you really have to wonder how close you might come to the edge of you were him. (And if not for that quality of writing a certain moment in Days of Future Past would not have brought a tear to my eye...)
And in Trekdom, the ultimate villains are Dukat and Chang...both utterly messed up and both utterly sure they are right, and we are shown how they rationalize and doublethink and even get hints as to the opportunities to be better that they squandered. (Chang really hits Dukat levels if you consider Klingon Academy canon.)
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Great! I wish that these stories were more in-game, as cutscenes or even records like Sela's ico reputation.
10 forward? So on Odyssey the cafeteria is also on 10th deck? In TNG cafeteria was named "10F" on Enterprise, that wasn't official name of it on every Galaxy. I understand that this is next next Enterprise (tradition and so) but now I wanna see blueprints of Oddy.
Yeah, I wish this story was told *in* the game itself
Magneto vs Apoccy has always been fun. But... part of why I mentioned Exodus is that he was one of Magneto's allies. "bad guy"s or not the two of them have fought the worst of the worst that the X-Men have ever encountered.
Heh, Mags HATES the Red Skull. It's a bit odd, but Magneto's backstory involves having been persecuted by TRIBBLE as a child... and the Red Skull... is a TRIBBLE.
Both are very powerful... Holocaust is totally nuts though.
Heh, Mags isn't as powerful as Apoccy really, but he's more skilled in combat.
All this because Kal Dano couldn't wait five flippin' minutes to turn the sun back on before running off to bury the MacGuffin in the sand...
(for the most unsatisfying reason in all time travel stories, "because." This thing, unlike all the other things, can't be changed. Why? "Because.")
For what it's worth, though, Trek has always been about addressing (then-)current events and social issues in a Sci Fi context. That's kind of its thing.
Of those that want these Blogs to be in game... what i want MORE is that freakin' Data Core from the Annorax....
I want a screen to screen comparison of the events of the Prime Universe and STO's current one(because right now we've SERIOUSLY frelled up the Prime Universe's history, THANKS GENOCIDE TIME MACHINE!)
I wanna know if, in this timeline, the Na'kuhl STILL went back in time and fiddled with World War II.... If so that means it doesn't matter what the Federation does, it won't change ANYTHING...
BUT... because this is now an alternate Prime Universe.... Things may be different.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Of those that want these Blogs to be in game... what i want MORE is that freakin' Data Core from the Annorax....
I want a screen to screen comparison of the events of the Prime Universe and STO's current one(because right now we've SERIOUSLY frelled up the Prime Universe's history, THANKS GENOCIDE TIME MACHINE!)
I wanna know if, in this timeline, the Na'kuhl STILL went back in time and fiddled with World War II.... If so that means it doesn't matter what the Federation does, it won't change ANYTHING...
BUT... because this is now an alternate Prime Universe.... Things may be different.
Oh, but my theory of Butterfly had it that what we were in before we used the Annorax wasn't the Prime timeline, but that we created it in that moment. Which also explains why our character in that episode was so cavalier about the risks until the final scene that we repeated...the version of ourselves we see for most of the episode did not have the Temporal Cold War background that we do in most episodes.
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Comments
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A common knock on lots of science fiction works, including sometimes Star Trek itself, is that humanity is always portrayed as being a very diverse group of competing beliefs and interests, and aliens are generally portrayed as monolithic: everyone thinking exactly the same way, believing exactly the same things, and acting in exactly the same way. Its actually more realistic to me to portray the Na'kuhl government as taking one position, but the Na'kuhl people as not all willing to go down with the ship with them. In every conflict there are refugees, and they usually don't care about what governments say, at least not enough to avoid doing whatever they can to save themselves when possible.
Even if some of the Na'kuhl don't officially want Federation or Alliance help, there's still the matter of millions of Na'kuhl refugees trying to escape their dying homeworld and looking for somewhere to go. The Na'Kuhl may not want us to come to them, but they are still coming to us, because there's not many options for them to go.
Amen. If there was any time we needed Trek's humanistic message, it certainly is now.
The author clearly understands the ethos of Star Trek. Take the aforementioned praise and a raise and double it.
Also, the comment about the Tux Utat...can someone tell me why we hI'd it inserted of destroying it? O_o
This is also an opportunity to expand on post-war story arcs that are faction-specific. Someone with a lot of characters might find it dull after a while playing the same episode 20+ times per week just for a spec point and a new trinket. A nice 15-episode [5 episodes per faction] set around rebuilding, restoration, and new discoveries, leading into new events and interweaving the episodes to tell a complete story. [I would try to accomplish that in the Foundry, but I don't have the know-how to operate the Foundry that well.]
I do like the references to previous series, but the Ten-Forward reference needed to be something different. An example would be the name of the Enterprise-E's lounge, The Happy Bottom Riding Club [TNG novel Resistance by J.M. Dillard], named by Captain Riker before his departure from the Enterprise to command the Titan. A unique name for the crew lounge would have been great for the Enterprise-F, especially if it was named by a former Enterprise officer, such as La Forge. But that is just an opinion. It would have carried on a tradition used in those novels. But, I do still like the nod to previous Trek series.
It would be nice to see other actors and actresses return to reprise their respective roles. Who doesn't want to see Kira kick some TRIBBLE in the 25th century?
Overall, a very good read. I look forward to new sippets of story to set up the next FE.
On a completely unrelated note, with the launch of the Armada system, will we see, in the future as all fleets in each armada maxes out, Armada Holdings? And, in theory, would that possibly introduce a new variant of ships, equipment, and other trinkets?
Because it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. We were meant to hide it so it could be found and destroyed in our past by Jean Luc Picard (see TNG episode S03E19 "Captain's Holiday")
My character Tsin'xing
I agree, it makes sense if you assume that the Na'khul government are still saying "stuff you" but these people are just the segment of the population that are totally ignoring them. And if there's more than one group of Na'kuhl in play doing different things, then that means we could have a sciencey story with another lot of them!
Yes, I thought they rather skated over that too. Why was it? Given the importance of the fact that you couldn't reignite the star, they needed to make the distinction between Na'khul's sun and Lukari's sun a little more obvious, like, say, the remnant exploding... (OK, not exploding, the Na'khul would have been blown up, but maybe collapsing into a brown dwarf or something like that.)
The Na'kuhl were a species that evolved to gain a certain degree of control over time. During the 29th century, they were a faction in the Temporal Cold War – vehemently opposed to the Temporal Accord – and were led by Vosk, a dangerous fanatic who viewed time travel as his innate right despite the damage that consequently might be done to the timeline.
Read the rest of this entry at: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Na'kuhl
STO Devs: Please show more canon background information on your featured races and/or characters in the future. Showing this would help all players, regardless of their level of knowledge on the game. Trek minutia is almost essential to the success of Star Trek itself!
I swear I heard a sharp, long-drawn "MEEEOOW!" reading those lines...
I thought the crew lounge for each ship carries a different name by tradition O.o
Then again, the name "Enterprise" is an entirely different story in itself.
Shon has a lot of mistrust to fix with the Na'kuhl
What's up with the "schism" in the Federation Council about helping the Na'kuhl? They may have ties with the Breen and the Tzenkethi -- so what?
We know that things are... tense with the Breen from previous episodes, and we haven't seen or heard nothing about the Tzenkethi yet, much less of hostilities in the 25th century; but that doesn't mean that we should recoil from assisting the Na'kuhl, or that every Na'kuhl citizen is a spy.
Btw -- So the Tzenkethi are still at some kind of cold war with the Federation / Alliance then?
Very good read! It may be too much to ask / hope for, buuuut can we haz cutscenes that cover little scenes like this every once in a while?
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
I know people have different opinions but my expectation if one is going to be doing a morality play is actually a MUCH higher level of art and subtlety/nuance that I am not seeing here, and that to me just ties in with other inconsistencies and writing weaknesses I have seen of other kinds.
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As for morality plays... I usually think they're trite and contrived.... doesn't matter what decade they're from. 40s... 60s... 2010... doesn't matter. Usually either the morality takes a back seat to action, or it's just dumb. the only one I can really think of I liked was the one with Gul Darheel.
My character Tsin'xing
Considering the events of "Sunrise", I figured Kal Dano wasn't very confident in his, or the player's, ability to keep the Tholians from stealing it again before he got done reigniting the Na'kuhl star with it.
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DS9 is where I think we got the kind of subtlety I want to see, and oddly enough, it even seems like late seasons of ENT may have delivered a bit of it too. "Duet" is well played, but a LOT of DS9 episodes that touch controversial issues are IMO far superior to their Anvilicious counterparts in TNG that beat you over the head with the Writer-Endorsed Perspective and often give the leads cardboard cutouts to fight and pontificate to. DS9 made you have to stop and think and in some cases even have to consider which side you were on or if both sides were wrong. Even when a villain is obviously in the wrong, there's more to them than an obvious pastiche or parody--and IMO you get better self-examination in your viewers when you go the subtler route. When it comes down to it I am ultimately a Niner even more than I would consider myself a stereotypical Trekkie, though all of the rest of it has at least *some* stuff that is good.
I won't spoil it for people who haven't seen it yet, but that's what I am finding promising about The Man in the High Castle so far: there are certain characters that are utterly abhorrent but you're shown enough depth to them that you have to ask serious questions about how they could have gotten that way and how they maintain the type of doublethink required (and IF they can do it forever). This Ferris guy is no comparison to an Inspector Kido or a Smith...he's more of a pause, roll eyes at obvious cartoonish reference, and move on. If you ask me, the BEST way to realize a villain is to make the viewer actually have to question if they could somehow be pushed across the line and to do that, the only way to do it is depth.
In STO, I think one of the best adversaries we've had has been the Vaadwaur. You can't just judge that situation on the first look, even though the Vaadwaur HAVE done evil and that can't be denied. I am just not seeing something of that quality here since all it did was copy/paste the news in a way that looks clumsy to me.
Oh...and JJ actually managed to get more of a "pause and think" out of me with his take on Khan than Roddenberry. There. I said it!
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Armored... Tail... Sheaths...
We're getting those right? cuz kitty M.A.C.O. armor could like... use all of that
This sort of thing is why I like the concept of a non-villainous antagonist. It's a person with different goals than yours who is competing with you for something. Not because they're a bad person really, but because their goals conflict with yours.
My character Tsin'xing
And in Trekdom, the ultimate villains are Dukat and Chang...both utterly messed up and both utterly sure they are right, and we are shown how they rationalize and doublethink and even get hints as to the opportunities to be better that they squandered. (Chang really hits Dukat levels if you consider Klingon Academy canon.)
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Yeah, I wish this story was told *in* the game itself
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Heh, Mags HATES the Red Skull. It's a bit odd, but Magneto's backstory involves having been persecuted by TRIBBLE as a child... and the Red Skull... is a TRIBBLE.
Both are very powerful... Holocaust is totally nuts though.
Heh, Mags isn't as powerful as Apoccy really, but he's more skilled in combat.
My character Tsin'xing
(for the most unsatisfying reason in all time travel stories, "because." This thing, unlike all the other things, can't be changed. Why? "Because.")
For what it's worth, though, Trek has always been about addressing (then-)current events and social issues in a Sci Fi context. That's kind of its thing.
I want a screen to screen comparison of the events of the Prime Universe and STO's current one(because right now we've SERIOUSLY frelled up the Prime Universe's history, THANKS GENOCIDE TIME MACHINE!)
I wanna know if, in this timeline, the Na'kuhl STILL went back in time and fiddled with World War II.... If so that means it doesn't matter what the Federation does, it won't change ANYTHING...
BUT... because this is now an alternate Prime Universe.... Things may be different.
Oh, but my theory of Butterfly had it that what we were in before we used the Annorax wasn't the Prime timeline, but that we created it in that moment. Which also explains why our character in that episode was so cavalier about the risks until the final scene that we repeated...the version of ourselves we see for most of the episode did not have the Temporal Cold War background that we do in most episodes.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.