I do agree that the damage dropoff for cannon fire should be reduced and that regular dual cannons should have a wider arc, like 90 degrees. Bring cannon and torp damage ability up to match FaW damage.
Seriously...how quickly do you want the content in this game to be over? CCA has been dones in less then 1 min by good pug teams and the AVERAGE pug does it in under 2 and a half min. Remember that the devs want you to spend around 15 min in these suckers. That optional timer is suppose to be failed more often then not. You all are messing with their metrics asking for even MORE power to get through the content even FASTER. And the last time their metrics was this messed up...what they came up with wasn't pretty...and if you take nerf off the table, then that is what they have.
They are the ones responsible for designing such powerful power creep, therefore they are the ones who decide how to resolve the issue, if at all!!!
IMO, the Devs are the real problem.
They want this and there isn't anything we can do about it.
Actually...they don't. We are clearing content WAY too fast for what they want for their metrics. The trouble is, they can do another DR pass...which will be highly unpopular...
I'm not sure why another DR event (which I liked) would somehow balance out Beams vs non-Beams.
If they didn't want B:FaW>Everything Else, it would have been changed long ago.
As an example, the Devs didn't like KDF toons running around ESD a few days ago (which was completely harmless btw).
What happened?
Emergency maintenance the next day.
Nerf BFaW or buff Cannons/Torps/Sci.
That seems to be the consensus here, but who is holding the keys?
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
I don't think just a nerf or buff is the way that is too much of a swing in either direction, as a buff to the other abilities bringing them up to bfaw is going to just make the average dps of a group rise quite abit. As i have said it should be a combo of small nerfs to bfaw bringing it down to a set par that they chose, while then giving buffs to the other abilities to bring them up to that par as well.
I would love to see certain changes to some abilities like shown below.
Beam overload: This i think would be nice to be changed to more of a toggle ability, which when toggled-on gives a both a critical chance buff as well as a damage buff (divided across your beam arrays/banks), but yet would increase the power consumption of your beam banks/arrays also. It would have uses both for broadsiding ships that use multiple beams or those ships that use a single array/bank.
Torpedo spread: For me i would like to see this changed to more of a beam fire-at-will type functions, in that it would fire a main spread from the launcher you activated, but then would also launch smaller 1-3 torpedo spreads from the other similar type torpedo launchers on your ship that have targets in their firing arc. This would make it that stacking torpedo launchers on a ship would actually have a similar appeal as stacking cannons/beams does currently, while also improving the aoe damage of spread itself.
Cannon: Rapid fire: This change would be kinda like the beam overload change above in that I would rather see it as a toggle, which improves your slotted cannon's rate of fire while it is active, but yet will also increase the power consumption of your cannons while it is active too. Both this an beam overload done in a toggle form would combo well with cannon spread/bfaw as it would increase the rate of fire or the damage an critical hit chance of the aoe while it is active, but would also make managing power levels more important in ways (might even see some drop in dps output as it would impact over-capping abit too.)
There appears to be a tone that if BFAW isn't nerfed then the DEV's will give us another Delta Rising. This simply will not happen as Delta Rising damaged the game immensely. They are not going to make that mistake again. I repeat they are not going to make that mistake again.
DR wasn't that bad...really. Not in the long term anyways. Yeah, short term, it was terrible, but overall, the game kind of came out better for it...unless you use cannone or torps and are not part of the top 2% of DPSers. And you can keep being in denial all you want, but when the way they can balance this game for their metrics is anothe DR pass or nerf BFAW and you are taking nerf BFAW off the table...hey guess what is left.
edit: Okay for those of you who keep saying another DR pass will never happen, let me ask you this. IF they gave you a choice, another DR like pass OR we nerf BFAW, which one do you pick?
I'd take a nerf to BFAW as the hit point sponges that came with DR stopped me running 50% of the STF content i did pre-DR as it was not fun. And i still have not recovered to playing that content again as hitting a brick wall is NOT FUN and haven't got back into those maps for fear of hitting a brick wall.
So by metrics a STF should take 15 mins to complete. If that is the case why have different careers, powers, traits, specialisation trees basically the ability to create different builds.
By that reasoning that every STF should take 15 mins, all builds, all powers, all traits should be equal so we simply have a vanilla game where nothing you equip matters, specialisation doesn't matter, the skill tree doesn't matter either. the ship doesn't matter or the career, the match should take 15 mins as this is the design.
The problem isn't BFAW. That alone doesn't net you 50-100k dps or more, or else everyone would be doing it. What allows those insane numbers is some sort of combination that is esoteric or expensive or both, and as I'm not in the dps league I don't know precisely what it is. But some people know, and the devs need to find out. Then they should nerf THAT, whatever it is, and the unbalance will disappear.
Yes, there is a magical thing that allows people to do those numbers. Looking at STO playerbase, it looks esoteric, even if you wouldn't expect it from a gaming community. If you consider time factor, it can also be pretty expensive. That magical thing that needs to be discovered by devs and nerfed is...
"piloting." that in it's self is the only "worth it" buff all around to make a ship from one pos into a good one that can pull damage even with VR Mk xii+ (just getting in the door at admiral)
The problem isn't BFAW. That alone doesn't net you 50-100k dps or more, or else everyone would be doing it. What allows those insane numbers is some sort of combination that is esoteric or expensive or both, and as I'm not in the dps league I don't know precisely what it is. But some people know, and the devs need to find out. Then they should nerf THAT, whatever it is, and the unbalance will disappear.
You are right in that assumption. It's basically a mix of power overcapping, damage boost stacking and debuffing both for yourself and on the team that is creating big DPS numbers. However, those mechanics are also available for the other types of builds (non-FAW) but they are lagging behind somewhat so FAW and that's why FAW is so popular and that's why FAW is the focus of people who want the powercreep reigned-in.
Personally, I do not think the powercreep in this game is that bad yet. Those doing above 50k are still a very small portion of the playerbase so I'd be careful about calling for a nerf to damage. I'm more for a change to FAW's AOE effect (cone around a primary target) to bring it to parity with other AOE weapons abilities and a buff to other weapon types (cannons and torps) to create a bit more diversity in the game.
I also made an alternate suggestion in another thread:
Remove shared cool downs between AOE and single target BOff abilities (such as FAW and BO, CRF and CSV, or TS and HY)
Slightly increase the cool downs of AOE weapons abilities
Lower AOE crit chance
Decrease accuracy on AOE weapons skills
Substantially reduce the CDs of single target weapons enhancement skills (BO, CRF and HY) to make them more spammable.
Increase accuracy of single target skills along with their CritH
Move CRF down to ensign
Since shared CDs are removed, you can fire BO with FAW, CRF with CSV or a HY immediately after a TS. AOE will still be potent, but their longer cool down would would make them more useful in softening up targets. Focused fire will finish off what AOE shots leave behind.
Just from a Star Trek story logic perspective, BFAW was only ever shown, in any way, as something that a large ship with a plethora of beam arrays ever did. You didn't see the Defiant shooting beams all over the place. You didn't even see Voyager doing that.
A proper balancing would involve:
1) limiting BFAW to cruisers -- making that their primary DPS ability
2) limiting CSV and CRF to Escorts/Raiders -- making that their primary DPS ability
3) limiting GW and other major damage dealing Sci magic abilities to Science ships -- making that their primary DPS ability
4) that leaves TS and THY as an ability available to all types of ship, allowing a variety of torp builds -- balance Torpedo builds against the other three styles.
Do all that, and make it approximately equal chances, in terms of the possible DPS output.
But that would take a whole heck of a lot of work.
That's the way it should be.
I'm just curious what 'Warbirds' would be confined to, under your authoritarian suggestion. Since, they aren't cruisers, they have no cruiser commands. They aren't escorts, cause half of them turn slower then an Galaxy. And outside of the Ha'nom and the R'Mor, none of them are science ships. So....that just leaves what, Torpedoes? Well, the Romulans were the first ones to be devistating with Torps in TOS.
Remove shared cool downs between AOE and single target BOff abilities (such as FAW and BO, CRF and CSV, or TS and HY)
Slightly increase the cool downs of AOE weapons abilities
Lower AOE crit chance
Decrease accuracy on AOE weapons skills
Substantially reduce the CDs of single target weapons enhancement skills (BO, CRF and HY) to make them more spammable.
Increase accuracy of single target skills along with their CritH
Move CRF down to ensign
Since shared CDs are removed, you can fire BO with FAW, CRF with CSV or a HY immediately after a TS. AOE will still be potent, but their longer cool down would would make them more useful in softening up targets. Focused fire will finish off what AOE shots leave behind.
[/quote]
The problem there, is shortening the CD on single target abilities will make the PVPers, (if there are any left) scream to high heaven.
The problem isn't BFAW. That alone doesn't net you 50-100k dps or more, or else everyone would be doing it. What allows those insane numbers is some sort of combination that is esoteric or expensive or both, and as I'm not in the dps league I don't know precisely what it is. But some people know, and the devs need to find out. Then they should nerf THAT, whatever it is, and the unbalance will disappear.
Yes, there is a magical thing that allows people to do those numbers. Looking at STO playerbase, it looks esoteric, even if you wouldn't expect it from a gaming community. If you consider time factor, it can also be pretty expensive. That magical thing that needs to be discovered by devs and nerfed is...
piloting.
Piloting does have its effect, but even piloting is not the major factor, as even the best pilots in game cannot hit what is destroyed too quickly!!!
IMO, the Devs are the real problem.
They want this and there isn't anything we can do about it.
Actually...they don't. We are clearing content WAY too fast for what they want for their metrics. The trouble is, they can do another DR pass...which will be highly unpopular...
I'm not sure why another DR event (which I liked) would somehow balance out Beams vs non-Beams.
If they didn't want B:FaW>Everything Else, it would have been changed long ago.
As an example, the Devs didn't like KDF toons running around ESD a few days ago (which was completely harmless btw).
What happened?
Emergency maintenance the next day.
Nerf BFaW or buff Cannons/Torps/Sci.
That seems to be the consensus here, but who is holding the keys?
That's far from the consensus.
The consensus is closer to leave BFAW alone and buff cannons and torps.
As far as what the consensus is among the majority of STO players?
Nobody knows.
One of the things that makes BFAW overpowered is the fact that it is "autohit" for 10 seconds of weapon cycling against multiple targets. So the first order of business is to ... question ... the "autohit" feature used by BFAW. If you make [ACC] an issue for BFAW usage, that would be helpful in toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW. Best possible option would be to do a Best of Both Worlds take on nerfing BFAW in this fashion, such that attacks made against:
Starships are still "autohit"
Shuttles and Fighters are NOT "autohit" and require Accuracy checks
Destructible Torpedoes and Destructible Mines are NOT "autohit" and require Accuracy checks
Add in a "flavoring" of having an Accuracy penalty of distance between firing ship and target (similar to the damage reduction due to range) and we'd be in business. "Tune" the Accuracy penalty to BFAW such that there is less of a penalty on higher ranks of skill (-5% Accuracy penalty per 1.5/2.0/2.5 km range to $Target at Ranks I/II/III?) and validate with playtesting.
The "random" aspect of BFAW is something that shouldn't be interfered with, methinks.
Do that change and you'd be going a long way, as a Developer, to toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW versus things that can't even withstand a single hit, let alone multiple hits.
Stop crying about BFAW, STO desperately needs balance if it's going to survive. They've already kicked out 1 community due to a lack of balance and they're on the verge of loosing another. Stop crying about it, and ask for everything to be balanced along with it. Don't be afraid to take on something that can actually fight back and put up a fight.
Learn to play the game without unbalanced abilities and start enjoying good gameplay.
LOL in one brief sentence you invalidated your self. You call for balence then in the very next sentence learn to play with unbalenced. Was in your corner until that.
Oh yeah Balence yeah I recall a certian game called WOW where a class was brought in to Balence the game. Oh how the masses cried foul. Frankly if every faction was balenced with the other oh how boring a game STO would be. It would lead to a blandness with no difference outside of looks as to what one faction or another was. Balence is an illusion stop crying for balence and maybe learn how to adapt to changes in a game just like a normal person does in life. That said certian things are broken and are out of hand equally across faction lines.
I think BFAW getting a modest accuracy penalty along with a crit chance penalty would be enough. BFAW should be MODESTLY nerfed while cannons are MODESTLY buffed.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
One of the things that makes BFAW overpowered is the fact that it is "autohit" for 10 seconds of weapon cycling against multiple targets. So the first order of business is to ... question ... the "autohit" feature used by BFAW. If you make [ACC] an issue for BFAW usage, that would be helpful in toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW. Best possible option would be to do a Best of Both Worlds take on nerfing BFAW in this fashion, such that attacks made against:
Starships are still "autohit"
Shuttles and Fighters are NOT "autohit" and require Accuracy checks
Destructible Torpedoes and Destructible Mines are NOT "autohit" and require Accuracy checks
Add in a "flavoring" of having an Accuracy penalty of distance between firing ship and target (similar to the damage reduction due to range) and we'd be in business. "Tune" the Accuracy penalty to BFAW such that there is less of a penalty on higher ranks of skill (-5% Accuracy penalty per 1.5/2.0/2.5 km range to $Target at Ranks I/II/III?) and validate with playtesting.
The "random" aspect of BFAW is something that shouldn't be interfered with, methinks.
Do that change and you'd be going a long way, as a Developer, to toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW versus things that can't even withstand a single hit, let alone multiple hits.
Except that BFAW is almost never used to clear fighter and mines...so this change does nothing. Making it so it doesn't auto hit star ships is also nigh useless because you pretty much auto hit star ships anyways...even if you have zero acc mods. Now if you make it so that BFAW suffers from say a 50% reduction to accuracy so you actually NEED acc mods to reliably hit while spamming BFAW...well...now we have something.
It's not because they're already dead by FaW. Same w/ destructible torpedoes. Most don't notice in PvE because they're already dead via FaW upon firing.
PvP... ha...
What would help is that those mines/torps wouldn't be auto-hit by FaW unless player targeted. Give it the treatment that Quantum Phase got for Spread.
One of the things that makes BFAW overpowered is the fact that it is "autohit" for 10 seconds of weapon cycling against multiple targets. So the first order of business is to ... question ... the "autohit" feature used by BFAW. If you make [ACC] an issue for BFAW usage, that would be helpful in toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW. Best possible option would be to do a Best of Both Worlds take on nerfing BFAW in this fashion, such that attacks made against:
Starships are still "autohit"
Shuttles and Fighters are NOT "autohit" and require Accuracy checks
Destructible Torpedoes and Destructible Mines are NOT "autohit" and require Accuracy checks
Add in a "flavoring" of having an Accuracy penalty of distance between firing ship and target (similar to the damage reduction due to range) and we'd be in business. "Tune" the Accuracy penalty to BFAW such that there is less of a penalty on higher ranks of skill (-5% Accuracy penalty per 1.5/2.0/2.5 km range to $Target at Ranks I/II/III?) and validate with playtesting.
The "random" aspect of BFAW is something that shouldn't be interfered with, methinks.
Do that change and you'd be going a long way, as a Developer, to toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW versus things that can't even withstand a single hit, let alone multiple hits.
Except that BFAW is almost never used to clear fighter and mines...so this change does nothing. Making it so it doesn't auto hit star ships is also nigh useless because you pretty much auto hit star ships anyways...even if you have zero acc mods. Now if you make it so that BFAW suffers from say a 50% reduction to accuracy so you actually NEED acc mods to reliably hit while spamming BFAW...well...now we have something.
It's not because they're already dead by FaW. Same w/ destructible torpedoes. Most don't notice in PvE because they're already dead via FaW upon firing.
PvP... ha...
What would help is that those mines/torps wouldn't be auto-hit by FaW unless player targeted. Give it the treatment that Quantum Phase got for Spread.
I think BFAW getting a modest accuracy penalty along with a crit chance penalty would be enough. BFAW should be MODESTLY nerfed while cannons are MODESTLY buffed.
That makes a sense. If you have two guns and firing simultaneously, you have 2x more dmg, but you have much lesser accuracy. BFAW now has automatical hit.
And btw Go down fighting is solid piece of TRIBBLE too. The more your ship is damaged, the more damage you'll do? With Zahl's Invincible trait you are dps king.
Even if i have BFAW everywhere, because i love cruiser play (broadsiding), i am not agaist a nerf of BFAW. Currently is [acc] mod on weapons nearly useless (PvE). What put the B FAW any penalty on accuracy and make [acc] playable ?
What about buff or rework some nearly useless abilities like mask signature, particle burst, boarding party etc.
Stop buffing insane dps builds with things like energy refrequencer. Some players are able to solo any elite stf without any healing ability thx refrequencer, shield generator and pattern beta healing doff.
That makes a sense. If you have two guns and firing simultaneously, you have 2x more dmg, but you have much lesser accuracy. BFAW now has automatical hit.
BFAW actually does not automatically hit. Try speccing NO points in accuracy then going against Vaadwaur. I remember missing ALL THE FRICKIN time before I learned to spec accuracy. It's just once you build for accuracy you stop noticing when you miss as it does not happen often.
And btw Go down fighting is solid piece of TRIBBLE too. The more your ship is damaged, the more damage you'll do? With Zahl's Invincible trait you are dps king.
The problem there is with an OP trait: Invincible, NOT Go down fighting.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
The problem isn't BFAW. That alone doesn't net you 50-100k dps or more,
It doesn't net you such big numbers but BFAW is the problem.
Take a ship, basically equip it with dual cannons etc, an attack pattern and CRF or CSV, then take the same ship and swap out CRF or CSV and replace it with beams and BFAW and that ship will do a lot more damage, therefore, at its base BFAW is the problem as it is so much stronger than the other equivalent skills. I know, as I've done it myself with ships (with varying degrees of upgrades etc)
It also helps in the Undine battle zone. At the end where you fight off the ships, I used to find it really hard to even get a decent reward when only using cannons and CSV, but as soon as I equipped beams and BFAW I was getting a good reward.
Off topic but that whole zone and Voth 'space' zone seem to be anti-escort, with all the things that destroy your turn rate (yellow bubbles, and a crapton of torps) it makes it very difficult for escort to DPS but has minimal affect against cruisers.
Reading some of these posts, I like the idea of changing BFAW mechanics. I don't like the firing at two targets per beam. Is there an explanation for how that could be possible anyway? I know we currently pay for it with more drain. But I do kinda find it silly.
How about FAW change the base weapon mechanics. Currently a normal firing beam will fire 4 shots at the current target (not able to switch target), then a one second recharge.
Change it so FAW activates only one shot (one second fire cycle) with no recharge.
Targeting:
-20 acc for FAW I, Tries to fire at current target. If firing not possible or no target, selects debuffed target or random target in weapon arc
-10 acc for Faw II, Tries to fire at current target. If firing not possible or no target, selects debuffed target or nearest target in weapon arc
-0 acc for FAW III. Tries to fire at current target. If firing not possible or no target, selects debuffed target or nearest target with downed shield facing in weapon arc. (might need to be weakest nearby target, to make this work right)
(Prioritizing debuffed targets will help teamwork and quicker kills)
(Beware, enemy npcs should get this too)
Drain/fire rate:
The drain mechanic is unchanged, but ends up determining the firing rate. -10 drain per extra weapon firing as currently. As soon as power recovers to less than -10, it shoots the next beam that is ready to fire. (This firing in sequence would allow for quick target switching)
(Firing rate would be determined by the power transfer rate of your ship and the extra transfer from having buffed power above 125, up to the point at which all weapons have fired)
(ships with lower power transfer rate will fire slower, but even so, waiting for drain recovery gives the advantage of not firing beams at lower weapon power, giving better chance to punch through a weakened shield facing rather than just being a weak shot)
(This would especially help a beam boat that is for some reason not running full weapon power) (would prevent firing beams near zero power)
Cooldown:
The ability lasts 15 seconds with CD of 30 seconds. Global cooldown 15sec. During the ability, for every second that there is no target to shoot at, the CD of the current officer gets reduced by one second to the global minimum of 15seconds.
(So if you activated FAW on a bridge officer but no targets could be fired upon, the ability is immediately reusable after the 15 seconds.) If there were targets, then either wait the cooldown or activate your second bridge officer.
My thinking:
I think the FAW prioritizing debuffed targets would make this much more team useful. After all it should be more tactical than aoe.
Engineering abilities need to be factored in this. Eps flow consoles might have to be considered in your build to trade tankiness for more fire rate. Might give a nice buff to engineering builds and eng captains who are likely stuck with FAW I and not FAW II or III.
This firing pattern would look a lot more like it does in TV shows. Not this dps spamming the whole map with 8 beams each firing at two targets.
More thoughts:
Maybe dual beam banks should be able to fire at two targets simultaneously.
Your comments.
The problem there is with an OP trait: Invincible, NOT Go down fighting.
Go down fingting is still a nonsence. With Invincible, it is laughable overpowered (+110% dmg). The more your ship is damaged, the more damage you'll do? It should not be properly vice versa ?
STO is only TRIBBLE game where players do themselves the ship damage to do higher weapons damage output.
But this thread is about a nerf BFAW. As i wrote before, even if i have BFAW everywhere, i vote for a nerf ( accuracy penalty or longer cooldown or both).
This will not happen because it would raise a lot whinners what they cry: "Why we can't have nice things" or "you stole my i win button toy".
I say similar: I want some nice things what encourage me to play something else than full beam ships with BFAW.
What's funny is I'm a pure sci player and I've used pure exotic damage since LoR and DR did not make much of a difference for me except I noticed stuff took about a minute to kill on elite and dreads took 3 mins. After that the power creep that occurred towards sci and the subsequent nerf have left me stronger than ever even with said nerf. Personally Tactical needs rebalancing or science needs a uber buff.
What's funny is I'm a pure sci player and I've used pure exotic damage since LoR and DR did not make much of a difference for me except I noticed stuff took about a minute to kill on elite and dreads took 3 mins. After that the power creep that occurred towards sci and the subsequent nerf have left me stronger than ever even with said nerf. Personally Tactical needs rebalancing or science needs a uber buff.
This. I still do reasonably well with my Sci ship under the right circumstances. Namely STFs that don't contain BFAW spammers. Because frankly, as have said before and will say again, if I take my sci ship into an instance of ISA that contains BFAW spammers, I may as well not be there.
Sounds like you appreciate arriving to a graveyard instead of a battlefield as much as I do. I'm not overly fond of being left out of the action either. I mostly just warp out of there in those cases.
Comments
They are the ones responsible for designing such powerful power creep, therefore they are the ones who decide how to resolve the issue, if at all!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I'm not sure why another DR event (which I liked) would somehow balance out Beams vs non-Beams.
If they didn't want B:FaW>Everything Else, it would have been changed long ago.
As an example, the Devs didn't like KDF toons running around ESD a few days ago (which was completely harmless btw).
What happened?
Emergency maintenance the next day.
Nerf BFaW or buff Cannons/Torps/Sci.
That seems to be the consensus here, but who is holding the keys?
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
I would love to see certain changes to some abilities like shown below.
I'd take a nerf to BFAW as the hit point sponges that came with DR stopped me running 50% of the STF content i did pre-DR as it was not fun. And i still have not recovered to playing that content again as hitting a brick wall is NOT FUN and haven't got back into those maps for fear of hitting a brick wall.
So by metrics a STF should take 15 mins to complete. If that is the case why have different careers, powers, traits, specialisation trees basically the ability to create different builds.
By that reasoning that every STF should take 15 mins, all builds, all powers, all traits should be equal so we simply have a vanilla game where nothing you equip matters, specialisation doesn't matter, the skill tree doesn't matter either. the ship doesn't matter or the career, the match should take 15 mins as this is the design.
Yes, there is a magical thing that allows people to do those numbers. Looking at STO playerbase, it looks esoteric, even if you wouldn't expect it from a gaming community. If you consider time factor, it can also be pretty expensive. That magical thing that needs to be discovered by devs and nerfed is...
piloting.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
You are right in that assumption. It's basically a mix of power overcapping, damage boost stacking and debuffing both for yourself and on the team that is creating big DPS numbers. However, those mechanics are also available for the other types of builds (non-FAW) but they are lagging behind somewhat so FAW and that's why FAW is so popular and that's why FAW is the focus of people who want the powercreep reigned-in.
Personally, I do not think the powercreep in this game is that bad yet. Those doing above 50k are still a very small portion of the playerbase so I'd be careful about calling for a nerf to damage. I'm more for a change to FAW's AOE effect (cone around a primary target) to bring it to parity with other AOE weapons abilities and a buff to other weapon types (cannons and torps) to create a bit more diversity in the game.
I also made an alternate suggestion in another thread:
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The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I'm just curious what 'Warbirds' would be confined to, under your authoritarian suggestion. Since, they aren't cruisers, they have no cruiser commands. They aren't escorts, cause half of them turn slower then an Galaxy. And outside of the Ha'nom and the R'Mor, none of them are science ships. So....that just leaves what, Torpedoes? Well, the Romulans were the first ones to be devistating with Torps in TOS.
The problem there, is shortening the CD on single target abilities will make the PVPers, (if there are any left) scream to high heaven.
Piloting does have its effect, but even piloting is not the major factor, as even the best pilots in game cannot hit what is destroyed too quickly!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That's far from the consensus.
The consensus is closer to leave BFAW alone and buff cannons and torps.
As far as what the consensus is among the majority of STO players?
Nobody knows.
One of the things that makes BFAW overpowered is the fact that it is "autohit" for 10 seconds of weapon cycling against multiple targets. So the first order of business is to ... question ... the "autohit" feature used by BFAW. If you make [ACC] an issue for BFAW usage, that would be helpful in toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW. Best possible option would be to do a Best of Both Worlds take on nerfing BFAW in this fashion, such that attacks made against:
Add in a "flavoring" of having an Accuracy penalty of distance between firing ship and target (similar to the damage reduction due to range) and we'd be in business. "Tune" the Accuracy penalty to BFAW such that there is less of a penalty on higher ranks of skill (-5% Accuracy penalty per 1.5/2.0/2.5 km range to $Target at Ranks I/II/III?) and validate with playtesting.
The "random" aspect of BFAW is something that shouldn't be interfered with, methinks.
Do that change and you'd be going a long way, as a Developer, to toning down the overpowered nature of BFAW versus things that can't even withstand a single hit, let alone multiple hits.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
LOL in one brief sentence you invalidated your self. You call for balence then in the very next sentence learn to play with unbalenced. Was in your corner until that.
Oh yeah Balence yeah I recall a certian game called WOW where a class was brought in to Balence the game. Oh how the masses cried foul. Frankly if every faction was balenced with the other oh how boring a game STO would be. It would lead to a blandness with no difference outside of looks as to what one faction or another was. Balence is an illusion stop crying for balence and maybe learn how to adapt to changes in a game just like a normal person does in life. That said certian things are broken and are out of hand equally across faction lines.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
It's not because they're already dead by FaW. Same w/ destructible torpedoes. Most don't notice in PvE because they're already dead via FaW upon firing.
PvP... ha...
What would help is that those mines/torps wouldn't be auto-hit by FaW unless player targeted. Give it the treatment that Quantum Phase got for Spread.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Oden,
It's WAI.
That makes a sense. If you have two guns and firing simultaneously, you have 2x more dmg, but you have much lesser accuracy. BFAW now has automatical hit.
And btw Go down fighting is solid piece of TRIBBLE too. The more your ship is damaged, the more damage you'll do? With Zahl's Invincible trait you are dps king.
Even if i have BFAW everywhere, because i love cruiser play (broadsiding), i am not agaist a nerf of BFAW. Currently is [acc] mod on weapons nearly useless (PvE). What put the B FAW any penalty on accuracy and make [acc] playable ?
What about buff or rework some nearly useless abilities like mask signature, particle burst, boarding party etc.
Stop buffing insane dps builds with things like energy refrequencer. Some players are able to solo any elite stf without any healing ability thx refrequencer, shield generator and pattern beta healing doff.
BFAW actually does not automatically hit. Try speccing NO points in accuracy then going against Vaadwaur. I remember missing ALL THE FRICKIN time before I learned to spec accuracy. It's just once you build for accuracy you stop noticing when you miss as it does not happen often.
The problem there is with an OP trait: Invincible, NOT Go down fighting.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
It doesn't net you such big numbers but BFAW is the problem.
Take a ship, basically equip it with dual cannons etc, an attack pattern and CRF or CSV, then take the same ship and swap out CRF or CSV and replace it with beams and BFAW and that ship will do a lot more damage, therefore, at its base BFAW is the problem as it is so much stronger than the other equivalent skills. I know, as I've done it myself with ships (with varying degrees of upgrades etc)
It also helps in the Undine battle zone. At the end where you fight off the ships, I used to find it really hard to even get a decent reward when only using cannons and CSV, but as soon as I equipped beams and BFAW I was getting a good reward.
Off topic but that whole zone and Voth 'space' zone seem to be anti-escort, with all the things that destroy your turn rate (yellow bubbles, and a crapton of torps) it makes it very difficult for escort to DPS but has minimal affect against cruisers.
How about FAW change the base weapon mechanics. Currently a normal firing beam will fire 4 shots at the current target (not able to switch target), then a one second recharge.
Change it so FAW activates only one shot (one second fire cycle) with no recharge.
Targeting:
-20 acc for FAW I, Tries to fire at current target. If firing not possible or no target, selects debuffed target or random target in weapon arc
-10 acc for Faw II, Tries to fire at current target. If firing not possible or no target, selects debuffed target or nearest target in weapon arc
-0 acc for FAW III. Tries to fire at current target. If firing not possible or no target, selects debuffed target or nearest target with downed shield facing in weapon arc. (might need to be weakest nearby target, to make this work right)
(Prioritizing debuffed targets will help teamwork and quicker kills)
(Beware, enemy npcs should get this too)
Drain/fire rate:
The drain mechanic is unchanged, but ends up determining the firing rate. -10 drain per extra weapon firing as currently. As soon as power recovers to less than -10, it shoots the next beam that is ready to fire.
(This firing in sequence would allow for quick target switching)
(Firing rate would be determined by the power transfer rate of your ship and the extra transfer from having buffed power above 125, up to the point at which all weapons have fired)
(ships with lower power transfer rate will fire slower, but even so, waiting for drain recovery gives the advantage of not firing beams at lower weapon power, giving better chance to punch through a weakened shield facing rather than just being a weak shot)
(This would especially help a beam boat that is for some reason not running full weapon power) (would prevent firing beams near zero power)
Cooldown:
The ability lasts 15 seconds with CD of 30 seconds. Global cooldown 15sec. During the ability, for every second that there is no target to shoot at, the CD of the current officer gets reduced by one second to the global minimum of 15seconds.
(So if you activated FAW on a bridge officer but no targets could be fired upon, the ability is immediately reusable after the 15 seconds.) If there were targets, then either wait the cooldown or activate your second bridge officer.
My thinking:
I think the FAW prioritizing debuffed targets would make this much more team useful. After all it should be more tactical than aoe.
Engineering abilities need to be factored in this. Eps flow consoles might have to be considered in your build to trade tankiness for more fire rate. Might give a nice buff to engineering builds and eng captains who are likely stuck with FAW I and not FAW II or III.
This firing pattern would look a lot more like it does in TV shows. Not this dps spamming the whole map with 8 beams each firing at two targets.
More thoughts:
Maybe dual beam banks should be able to fire at two targets simultaneously.
Your comments.
Go down fingting is still a nonsence. With Invincible, it is laughable overpowered (+110% dmg). The more your ship is damaged, the more damage you'll do? It should not be properly vice versa ?
STO is only TRIBBLE game where players do themselves the ship damage to do higher weapons damage output.
But this thread is about a nerf BFAW. As i wrote before, even if i have BFAW everywhere, i vote for a nerf ( accuracy penalty or longer cooldown or both).
This will not happen because it would raise a lot whinners what they cry: "Why we can't have nice things" or "you stole my i win button toy".
I say similar: I want some nice things what encourage me to play something else than full beam ships with BFAW.
While space Engis flail around uselessly muttering some random words about Nadion Inversion and power management.
Sounds like you appreciate arriving to a graveyard instead of a battlefield as much as I do. I'm not overly fond of being left out of the action either. I mostly just warp out of there in those cases.