How and why do you think will it drive prices higher?
Because now people will list items for 1 billion instead of 500 million because they can?
I can set the price of shoes to one billion $. That doesn't mean anybody is going to buy them.
If somebody thinks, prices would rise with the new 1b EC exchange cap, that person doesn't understand the functionality of a competitive market.
Its called inflation.
Inflation happens with or without the new exchange cap. Items that are worth more than 500m today are not being sold one the exchange, they are traded directly using the trading channels. All this cap increase really does is to make it easier for sellers und buyers of pricey items to find each other.
worst idea ever,.. now things will be way over-priced- I guess I can say good bye to ever get a lock-box ship now.
Why would you think this will make things cost more? I'm genuinely curious.
@repetitiveepic, I actually don't think the price cap in and of itself is the problem with the economy right now. It's the fact that it's happening at the same time as we've had a massive jolt to the EC supply resulting from the Admiralty System. That, even more than the Exchange price cap, is where the trouble will come from. It's inflation, basically. I am still concerned that we will see grey-market transactions taking place above the new limit and people being gouged by those. Note, these probably would not occur if there were no limit at all, but for me the greater source of concern is the injection of a far greater EC supply.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I'm siding with repetitiveepic for once. He's using basic logic and nobody will answer him. They just keep repeating the same silly and baseless arguments.
Inflation happens with or without the new exchange cap. Items that are worth more than 500m today are not being sold one the exchange, they are traded directly using the trading channels. All this cap increase really does is to make it easier for sellers und buyers of pricey items to find each other.
Every time a cap is made. It sets the bar higher and readies the market for higher prices. Thus inflation hits. You won't see it at first, but it will happen.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
When this goes live and the promo ship prices stay the same or more likely drop I'm going to write a giant "I told you so" thread and bask in the satisfaction of being right.
worst idea ever,.. now things will be way over-priced- I guess I can say good bye to ever get a lock-box ship now.
Why would you think this will make things cost more? I'm genuinely curious.
@repetitiveepic, I actually don't think the price cap in and of itself is the problem with the economy right now. It's the fact that it's happening at the same time as we've had a massive jolt to the EC supply resulting from the Admiralty System. That, even more than the Exchange price cap, is where the trouble will come from. It's inflation, basically. I am still concerned that we will see grey-market transactions taking place above the new limit and people being gouged by those. Note, these probably would not occur if there were no limit at all, but for me the greater source of concern is the injection of a far greater EC supply.
It's possible, but even if this is the case, changing the exchange cap dramatically reduces the problem of 'grey-market' trading, because right now there are 5 items which can only be bought and sold that way, and after the change, there will only be one such item.
That's true now, but as the effect of the Admiralty system takes hold, I'm not so sure we're getting any more than a temporary reprieve.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
There are no caps on the US economy and last time I checked inflation was perfectly fine.
I mentioned in my post that if there were no cap on the Exchange, then that would likely put a permanent damper on grey-market transactions. As long as a limit does exist, then the grey market transactions will always be there even if we get a temporary reprieve while inflation from the Admiralty system kicks in.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Lets use a real world example, the Vonph Dreadnought.
Every day I see people trying to sell them for 650m, 625m, 600m, and today, 575m. Usually only one of these is being advertised for sale at a time. Occasionally someone finds a buyer, but sellers appear to outnumber buyers.
Thursday, exchange gets fixed, what happens?
Guy A posts one for 1,000,000,000 for the lulz
Guy B has been trying to sell his for 650m, so he posts his for 650m.
Guy C has been trying to sell his for 625m, he posts his for 625m
Guy D has been trying to sell his for 600m, so he posts his for 600m
Guy E has been trying to sell his for 575m, so he posts his for 575m.
Guy C decides 'welp, im probably not going to get 625m, but maybe i can get 599 after the 575 one sells, so he post his for 599m
Guy F wins a vonph, he searches the exchange and sees the cheapest one is 575m, he posts his for 570m.
And so on, and so forth.
That's true. I can speak of personal experience since I sold a Vonph only a few days ago for 650m. After I had sold the ship and stopped posting my trade offer I received a PM by a guy asking me if the Vonph had been sold. Because he wanted to wait till I was done so he could start offering his Vonph for 700m. That's a form of "price managment" that won't be possible anymore in the future. This guy will still be able to post his item for 700m but it would get undercut by other sellers.
All it's going to do is make some people richer in the short run and cause EC inflation in the long run.
"I can now charge a Billion EC for the same ship I could only charge 500 million for before? Cool!"
Frankly, they should remove the ability to do 1 on 1 trades for the super rare ships. That way they're forced to use a max price of 1 billion EC. Otherwise, we'll just end up in an even worse situation down the road.
Out of a sea of whining and complaining finally something that makes SENSE. Well said and I support it
The whole problem with this mentality, is that people think the more $$$ being made, the less valuable it becomes!
News flash, $$$ isn't worth TRIBBLE, not even the paper it is printed on, or the coin it is minted on, and only has what can be deemed a value, because people are willing to trade for it, steal it, kill for it, rob others of out of it, etc.
(...)
But this is exactly what causes inflation. You are right that currency has no objective value, that is it's point. But if everyone can generate more and more currency it becomes less valued. 100.000 EC in STO is basically not worth spending because you can generate that amount in a matter of minutes (or an hour) via for example a full run of hourly rep projects or selling loot to a vendor. You and anyone else can easily generate that amount of EC out of thin air basically which is why 100.000 EC is not much. And since we all generate more and more EC automatically it loses more and more value which is why the prices go up. The admirality system added a huge EC spring with assignments that crit for several 100k EC, as a result prices go up cosntantly because people ask for more EC to increase the gap between what they can generate themselves and what hteir profit through selling stuff will be.
This is very very bad the markets is already hyper inflated.
That'd be the fault of all the EC inputs that recently opened up, not the possibility that the exchange can host 500 million to 1 billion EC items.
Some people cannot seem to fathom, that inflation isn't so much more EC being produced, but that those who already have vast sums, and those with little sums keep raising the cost of everything.
Because those already with vast sums, just are greedy and want more of what they already have a ton of, and those with little keep having to ask for more for what provides theirs!
A never ending cycle of monetary bull TRIBBLE, and one that eventually gets out of hand and leads to complaints naturally.
Why else do you think the poverished - middle class, is always griping about the top 1%?
Because the top 1%, is never satisfied with being the top 1%, EVER!!!
That's not actually true though. The exchange price limit does not matter the way you think it does. It has never been any kind of impediment for prices, and has not caused the prices of cheaper items to magically go up.
Look, the economy is not some imaginary abstract thing, its a set of facts. facts about supply, facts about demand, facts about costs.
It doesn't work on the basis of talismans that 'set the bar' and then, as if by magic, things just happen.
There are reasons, clear reasons, for it being the way it is. If you know the facts, you can start to find the reasons.
Yours isn't true. Each time a new level is hit the rest will adjust to it. And raise the prices. Then everyone is paying for it. Once the cap hits, you won't see it from the start. But it will go up in due time. I used to buy nice gear from the exchange when I first started at a good price. Since then its gone up and never came back down. Once it hit a level, I used to buy off the Dil store. They took that away so I craft now. I refuse to pay for gear off the exchange unless its from lock boxes. Even those are gone up from the older ones back in the summer. So over time those gear went up. As players gained more ways to get EC. This is where your inflation is working.
Why the cap is going up? One for the players want it, Second to set the new level of purchasing. Why else would others be happy to see a new cap? To put items even higher to make more. Granted some items will drop as they don't sell at that time, and as the current hot items go out. They go right back up due to they get rare, and at times even higher than they first started.
The Admiralty System is just starting. They have not fully implemented it yet. So once in full fruition the EC market will be a lot different than it is now. Even the Dil exchange is also affecting it. As the Keys used to be much lower. Look at them now, they are priced high compared to a year ago. Cause that market has gone up so did the price of keys via EC. They hit a new level as well.
This is only the beginning of a newer higher price levels. For the record, I have yet to unlock my Bank to increase my original cap of 10 million on all my characters.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Lets use a real world example, the Vonph Dreadnought.
Every day I see people trying to sell them for 650m, 625m, 600m, and today, 575m. Usually only one of these is being advertised for sale at a time. Occasionally someone finds a buyer, but sellers appear to outnumber buyers.
Thursday, exchange gets fixed, what happens?
Guy A posts one for 1,000,000,000 for the lulz
Guy B has been trying to sell his for 650m, so he posts his for 650m.
Guy C has been trying to sell his for 625m, he posts his for 625m
Guy D has been trying to sell his for 600m, so he posts his for 600m
Guy E has been trying to sell his for 575m, so he posts his for 575m.
Guy C decides 'welp, im probably not going to get 625m, but maybe i can get 599 after the 575 one sells, so he post his for 599m
Guy F wins a vonph, he searches the exchange and sees the cheapest one is 575m, he posts his for 570m.
And so on, and so forth.
repetitiveepic's point seems valid, this had been the case no matter what the item or EC cap, saw it when the Epic weapons hit.
Comments
This times 1000.
There will be some initial silliness on the part of sellers. But the prices will level out to more reasonable levels over time.
Its called inflation.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Inflation happens with or without the new exchange cap. Items that are worth more than 500m today are not being sold one the exchange, they are traded directly using the trading channels. All this cap increase really does is to make it easier for sellers und buyers of pricey items to find each other.
@repetitiveepic, I actually don't think the price cap in and of itself is the problem with the economy right now. It's the fact that it's happening at the same time as we've had a massive jolt to the EC supply resulting from the Admiralty System. That, even more than the Exchange price cap, is where the trouble will come from. It's inflation, basically. I am still concerned that we will see grey-market transactions taking place above the new limit and people being gouged by those. Note, these probably would not occur if there were no limit at all, but for me the greater source of concern is the injection of a far greater EC supply.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I'll just leave this here:
Every time a cap is made. It sets the bar higher and readies the market for higher prices. Thus inflation hits. You won't see it at first, but it will happen.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
When this goes live and the promo ship prices stay the same or more likely drop I'm going to write a giant "I told you so" thread and bask in the satisfaction of being right.
That's true now, but as the effect of the Admiralty system takes hold, I'm not so sure we're getting any more than a temporary reprieve.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I mentioned in my post that if there were no cap on the Exchange, then that would likely put a permanent damper on grey-market transactions. As long as a limit does exist, then the grey market transactions will always be there even if we get a temporary reprieve while inflation from the Admiralty system kicks in.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
That's true. I can speak of personal experience since I sold a Vonph only a few days ago for 650m. After I had sold the ship and stopped posting my trade offer I received a PM by a guy asking me if the Vonph had been sold. Because he wanted to wait till I was done so he could start offering his Vonph for 700m. That's a form of "price managment" that won't be possible anymore in the future. This guy will still be able to post his item for 700m but it would get undercut by other sellers.
Out of a sea of whining and complaining finally something that makes SENSE. Well said and I support it
No matter your opinion of the recent inflation banning certain items from Trade or sell treats the symptom not the disease.
How would you enforce something like that!? The forum mobs decide what can and can't be sold? Lol that would be so much better...
Some people cannot seem to fathom, that inflation isn't so much more EC being produced, but that those who already have vast sums, and those with little sums keep raising the cost of everything.
Because those already with vast sums, just are greedy and want more of what they already have a ton of, and those with little keep having to ask for more for what provides theirs!
A never ending cycle of monetary bull TRIBBLE, and one that eventually gets out of hand and leads to complaints naturally.
Why else do you think the poverished - middle class, is always griping about the top 1%?
Because the top 1%, is never satisfied with being the top 1%, EVER!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yours isn't true. Each time a new level is hit the rest will adjust to it. And raise the prices. Then everyone is paying for it. Once the cap hits, you won't see it from the start. But it will go up in due time. I used to buy nice gear from the exchange when I first started at a good price. Since then its gone up and never came back down. Once it hit a level, I used to buy off the Dil store. They took that away so I craft now. I refuse to pay for gear off the exchange unless its from lock boxes. Even those are gone up from the older ones back in the summer. So over time those gear went up. As players gained more ways to get EC. This is where your inflation is working.
Why the cap is going up? One for the players want it, Second to set the new level of purchasing. Why else would others be happy to see a new cap? To put items even higher to make more. Granted some items will drop as they don't sell at that time, and as the current hot items go out. They go right back up due to they get rare, and at times even higher than they first started.
The Admiralty System is just starting. They have not fully implemented it yet. So once in full fruition the EC market will be a lot different than it is now. Even the Dil exchange is also affecting it. As the Keys used to be much lower. Look at them now, they are priced high compared to a year ago. Cause that market has gone up so did the price of keys via EC. They hit a new level as well.
This is only the beginning of a newer higher price levels. For the record, I have yet to unlock my Bank to increase my original cap of 10 million on all my characters.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
repetitiveepic's point seems valid, this had been the case no matter what the item or EC cap, saw it when the Epic weapons hit.