I would agree if you wasn't capped at 8k/day. But to make 30k zen with 3 free chars (the max you can have as free player) at the current rate of 240dil/zen that will take almost a year...
You can buy more character slots with the FREE zen you can earn through the dilithium exchange. So there goes that excuse. Next?
PS: whether you "agree" or not is irrelevant. You are factually wrong. You do not "need" anything from the game store, and you can in fact earn anything in the store without spending any of your own money. Whether you personally like how it works has nothing to do with the actual facts.
This is an infernal loop. If you buy free characters slots that's delay the time until you get your first T6 ship.
We will disagree on that then. For me it is impossible to enjoy the game without the store.
So? You're slowed down a bit for a larger gain in the end...trouble is to many people don't think of the bigger picture when you can just toss money at the problem then complain like you actually were forced to pay money, which you weren't.
Slowed a bit? You ll need EC cap, spend dilithium on reputation projects, spend dilithium on upgrades and buy bank slots to be able to stock your sets. And ofc you spent your skills points right like all new players so you don't have to buy skill respec.
I won't complain on how much I spent on this game, what I say is that you can't enjoy it without spending money. And if you are gonna tell me that someone can enjoy the game only by farming 8k dilit on 5-7 chars/day, then I must ask myself about the true goal of the life.
You don't need the EC cap to buy stuff on the C-Store
You don't need to buy reputation gear...nor do you need to spend dilithium to level reputations
You don't need bank slots to buy from the C-Store
You don't need to upgrade gear to buy items on the C-Store...nor do you need MK XIV Epics to perform most of the content in this game...heck you don't need XIV Epics to do anything.
No one said it was perfect...but it isn't P2W because you aren't willing to put in the time and you prefer the instant gratification of purchasing stuff with money.
If anything it's P2GetThingsQuicker.
Since DR has launched I've gotten multiple T6 ships off the C-Store...only one I paid for was the T6 Intrepid, since I really wanted the bridge, I haven't had much money to spend on STO in a while...but I still get along fine...and I don't even cap dilithium on multiple characters daily.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Sto is probably one of the weakest mmos I've ever played. It's engine is very, very dated and it shows. It lacks any semblance of balance as new more powerful abilities keep getting added for the sake of $$$. You can clearly see this in how dead pvp has become. A game with an active pvp community is generally a game with good skill and class balance. Game immersion has been abandoned for $$$. With starfleet, kdf, and Romulan characters flying all sorts of alien ship's. Ground combat is pretty poor. The menu and txt based admiralty and doff system feels dated and isn't really fun or make your character feel like a senior officer. The only reason to do it is for easy rewards without actually playing the game. The character classes are basically useless. The game is 98% kill as quickly as possible so tac characters are by far the most popular and efficient. Overall the game feels like a giant carnival where you win prizes. Step right up to the repetitive summer and winter events and get a flashy new toy.
The only reason I still play is because I like flying a space ship around and because it's star trek and there's no real alternative to get my star trek fix.
STO has a remarkably good free2play system. Like, outstandingly good. Nothing that matters in the game is behind a paywall.
There's lots of different ways to get the best stuff. Many of the very best items in
The cash shop loot- stuff from lockboxes, its all tradable!
Its a very casual game that also has rewards for big effort.
A great balance, a diversity of play styles supported. _ If you're casual, you can still enjoy the game pew pew without needing to max anything out. If you want to progress further, you can farm, grind, trade, whatever.
Borticus says "play smart" and the game rewards playing smart, but you can still enjoy the game playing it casually. Hard to beat!
Exactly. When the game first did the conversion to dilithium and F2P I was like "$20 for a ship! No F-ing way". Back then you needed to grind it out...every day. Now with all the events, reputation, and just playing dilly you get, it's easy. I own every single "pack" in the game. I didn't spend a cent. The only "grinding" I did (which was painful admittedly) was doing the 14 day events on a bunch of different toons. I actually spent $50 recently during the 15% spend and 20% off ship sale. I bought 2 ship bundles and 3 other single ships including the new Jupiter. I love collecting the different ships.
Someone mentioned they hated the rep system. I think it is one of the best features. It allows players to create a playstyle all their own. Phaser weapon set? Sure. Tetryon set? No problem. AP set? Gotcha covered.
Someone mentioned EVE. EVE is really a great game but it is WAY too hardcore for my taste. You can't really be casual and play the game. Sure the offline skillups are casual and you can take your mining boat into high sec space and mine but all the good stuff is in low sec space which requires WAY too much effort. What I do like about it is that a few small frigates equipped the proper way can easily punish a battleship. The right loadout is everything. The space effects are more "real" feeling than STO as well as the explosions.
Someone also mentioned the graphics of STO are dated. Well sure. The game is almost 6 years old. The ground graphics are ok but the ships and space graphics still look good. I recently got a 4k TV and run STO on that. I created a movie music mod for STO a few years ago that replaces the in game music with music from the movies and listening to that in surround on a 70" 4k TV is really amazing. It's like you are really flying your own ship!
I originally wrote this up to point a few friends at it so they could read what I love about this game. I'm glad to see so many feel the same way.
Paying for ships is fine for me, but free players should have a free T6 ship, at least once per account.
I really don't understand this at all. You don't need a T6 ship to be competitive at all. Oe a couple toons I haven't bothered with T6 ships and am using T5-U ships I bought for 300k and upgraded for 8m. Those toons do great because, how effective you are has very little to do with the ship and more to do with the rest of the build. I've been playing just over 6 months now and there's no way I would agree this is a P2W game.
For me, SWG is still the best MMO I have ever played. STO is good, even with the many bugs/flaws but SWG had more to it... aside from character creation/customization. The good thing is SWG can still be played on both pre-CU and post-NGE servers via emulators.
As far as F2P models go, STO has the best one that I have seen. The only other games that are on that level, as F2P goes, would be Path of Exile and Rift.
-AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- ProjectPhoenix Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Sto is probably one of the weakest mmos I've ever played. It's engine is very, very dated and it shows. It lacks any semblance of balance as new more powerful abilities keep getting added for the sake of $$$. You can clearly see this in how dead pvp has become. A game with an active pvp community is generally a game with good skill and class balance. Game immersion has been abandoned for $$$. With starfleet, kdf, and Romulan characters flying all sorts of alien ship's. Ground combat is pretty poor. The menu and txt based admiralty and doff system feels dated and isn't really fun or make your character feel like a senior officer. The only reason to do it is for easy rewards without actually playing the game. The character classes are basically useless. The game is 98% kill as quickly as possible so tac characters are by far the most popular and efficient. Overall the game feels like a giant carnival where you win prizes. Step right up to the repetitive summer and winter events and get a flashy new toy.
The only reason I still play is because I like flying a space ship around and because it's star trek and there's no real alternative to get my star trek fix.
I won't tell you that you are wrong because both you and I are entitled to our own opinions. I would like to address many of the issues you pointed out though.
The game is 6 years old. The engine plays like any game that is six years old. You can't knock a game's graphics 6 years after it has been released and compare it to current games. It's not really a fair comparison. What I look at is the fact that is still looks pretty good. The space combat looks and sounds cool. The ships still look great.
This game like all others suffers from balance issues. Every single MMO to date has had these issues. I'm not super thrilled by the things like kemocite behind lockboxes or exorbitant EC costs but I don't have them and I still hold my own. I am often 1-3 on things like Adv. CE event.
I'm not really into PVP but from all the stats I have seen around MMOs the PVP community is a much smaller aspect of games than the PVE community. Mainly because there are way to many min/maxxers that like to show their epeen by griefing or severely overpowering their opponents because their gear is off the charts. They are generally super hard core. So I don't think an active PVP community is a good/bad reflection on an overall game. If STO were like EVE and there wasn't a PVP community I would worry.
I think game immersion has actually gotten better. The story cutscenes, the real actors voice acting, the way some of the missions start like an episode of the TV show...all of that is getting better and better. I have to say though that the music mod I created to replace the in game music with music from the real movies/TV show makes a HUGE difference for me. It's like a whole other game.
Ground combat is poor. No arguing there but then again, this is like 2 MMOs in one. A space physics based game and a ground based physics game. Remember the game Earth & Beyond? They wanted to do a space and ground game but couldn't pull it off. No other MMO has really done this yet...6 years later!
They plan on updating the DoFF system. It does need something. The admiralty system is new and will get better over time. At least there is a use for all those ships now that we have collected over the years. The rewards for doing something so simple are pretty great too.
If you are a min/maxxer then sure, TAC capts are the best because you make stuff go boom real quick. But I have to tell you, with the right gear and setup, a SCI capt with exotic weapons is damn effective...and wicked fun too. I love coming up with different builds and trying to pair them with different weapons/skills to make them successful. That is 1/2 the fun for me.
At least they have events that have good payouts. Not many other games do this. A free T6 ship is a pretty good payout. 50k dilly is a pretty good payout. I think all the rewards are pretty nice based on effort.
Many people have commented or implied that all they care about is $$. It is a big portion of the decision making process as this is a business that employs a bunch of people. They have to make money to keep going. I won't knock them for that. When it gets greedy is when there is a problem. I think their store is fairly reasonable based on how easy it is to make dilly throughout gameplay.
You seem less than enamored by the game so I am curious, it says you have 1200 posts. That seems like a lot of posts by someone that doesn't like the game very much. Why invest so much time in the forums if you don't like the game very much? I would probably move on and probably wouldn't post anything.
@bmcd73 I've got a lot of posts because I've been around for a long time. As I said at the end of my post I play because it's star trek and there isn't really any alternative.
As for your counterpoints they all seem like a lot of excuses. Ground combat is bad? Oh it's because it's two games in one. That's not a good reason for bad gameplay.
The doff system was updated once already and it wasn't really an improvement. More like a gui update. As for rewards I did mention that the rewards. It's just not fun. As for the admiralty system it may get new missions added at some point, but if the doff system is any indication we won't be getting much.
I don't dispute the fact that the events pay out great. But are they fun? I don't know anyone, at least anyone I play with, that enjoyed doing the recent mirror event. Particularly the poor mission design where players end up having to wait around for 5 minutes for the second phase of the mission to start because it's time gated.
Everything in this game feels really rushed and cheap when compared with other mmos I've played. They have a deadline to meet and buggy content is released to holodeck to be fixed later. I don't know of many mmos that do that. Even the recent episode had some issues that took, I believe, 3 patches to rectify.
For me, SWG is still the best MMO I have ever played. STO is good, even with the many bugs/flaws but SWG had more to it... aside from character creation/customization. The good thing is SWG can still be played on both pre-CU and post-NGE servers via emulators.
As far as F2P models go, STO has the best one that I have seen. The only other games that are on that level, as F2P goes, would be Path of Exile and Rift.
Both of those I hated...Pre-CU was buggy and so many classes were useless...and post-NGE was a wanna be WoW Clone.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
though my gaming experience is not as extensive as yours I have had been playing computer games for a very long time and have played a lot of different games on a lot of different platforms starting with the Sinclair ZX81 and moving up through the Commodore C-64 and Amiga and a few other computer platforms on to the PC's of today.
STO is the only game that has kept me playing for this long, this winter event being my forth one.
from here on in I can only agree with your assessment of the various changes, as you say cryptic have made a few bad choices but thankfully they have corrected some of them but most of the changes have definitely been for the better.
there is no other game that has kept me playing for even one year let alone nearly four.
I started playing naturally as FTP and then some time later bought the lifetime sub and I have never regretted that choice.
SWTOR has so much better story telling and if you have a high end PC....the graphics are like none other. Also, check out EVE online. I know its a sub based MMO but going stronger than ever. I could care less for WOW or fantasy stuff. In terms of real Sci Fi those two are so much better than STO. Still STO rules to some degree if you are poor and can't access Eve or SWOTR.
funnily enough I didn't care much for SWTOR, I found the missions to be far too repetitive in as much as you are traversing the same map and fighting the same enemy groups time and time and time again and then when you get to the area where the actual mission objective is its just a matter of flick switch of push button or pull lever and you are done now return over the same repetitive map to hand in your mission and collect the reward.
the free to play system was crippling forcing players to end up paying real money to access much of the content and I also found a lot of other players to be very rude and unhelpful to new players.
it was also very tedious having to continually repair your gear after every mission and at later levels even multiple times during the mission.
the space combat was boring beyond belief offering you virtually no freedom of movement within the map and having to continually circle the same preset course while you attempt to take out the targets then forcing you to pay to play more then 3 space missions a week even including replaying a mission you might have previously failed.
I played it for a few months but soon tired of it.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
For me, SWG is still the best MMO I have ever played. STO is good, even with the many bugs/flaws but SWG had more to it... aside from character creation/customization. The good thing is SWG can still be played on both pre-CU and post-NGE servers via emulators.
As far as F2P models go, STO has the best one that I have seen. The only other games that are on that level, as F2P goes, would be Path of Exile and Rift.
I can say that Facebook games might be equal in that regard, but yeah... they're not MMOS.
Sorry but for me a game that give you any advantage when paying is a P2W.
So pretty much every game in the history of games is P2W then. Legend of Zelda, can't win if you don't pay for the game. Deck of Cards? P2W for sure! Checkers, Chess? Both P2W.
That's a stupid analogy and you know it. Spending 30 dollars to play a game is different then spending 30 dollars for an ability or ship that makes gameplay easier. P2p - p2w. Two different things.
So under that reasoning, for something to qualify as "Not-P2W" then paying for something would be the exact same as not paying. In that case, why would someone pay for something?
...Why would they pay for anything?
Because they have an unhealthy hatred of communism?
Nike sorry to say you are seriously misinformed if you think STO is pay to win. Granted some of the stuff on the c store is by far better than anything you get for free the Lockbox especially even more so BUT if you wanna see real pay to win go play some Korean mmos. Stuff you can buy in the virtual stores on 90% of those mmos are 5 to 10 times better than anything you can get for free in the game and a few of those mmos you don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of playing mid to end game without forking over $100. I've played a lot of mmos and I keep coming back to this one because I can leave play for 2 weeks get my dil convert it and get the new ship that's come out. And before you ask yes I have payed money into this game but it only covers about 1/8th of the stuff I've gotten most of it from multiple toons making dil and then refining it.
STO is the only game that has kept me playing for this long, this winter event being my forth one.
from here on in I can only agree with your assessment of the various changes, as you say cryptic have made a few bad choices but thankfully they have corrected some of them but most of the changes have definitely been for the better.
there is no other game that has kept me playing for even one year let alone nearly four.
I started playing naturally as FTP and then some time later bought the lifetime sub and I have never regretted that choice.
I probably play video games not as long as you do but certainly share your feeling and attitude towards STO.
I only took Delta Rising hard because of the ad hoc increase in game difficulty and increased grind but yea, one year later cryptic has integrated more than enough means to compensate for that.
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I really like playing STO and I play almost every day, but for me the best MMO game I ever played was Star Wars Galaxies, hands down.
I wish Cryptic would take more away from how much fun everything was in that game (up to NGE/CU).
It wasn't perfect, but it certainly brought the flavor of all aspects of the Star Wars Universe to the players.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
This is totally the case here.
Can you level faster? Yes you can buy exp boost
Can you have more money? Yes buy keys and sell it
Can you get better ships? Yes a lot of choices here
Can you have top doff? Yes buy duty officer packs
Can you have more ships for admiralty? Yes you can buy brig slots and ship slots, and ships too
Can you upgrade stuff faster? Yes, exchange zen for dilithium and have unlimited upgrades
Can you craft faster? Yes, you can finish the process earlier and you can buy R&D bundles and/or R&D boosts
Whatever the time he spend in game, the free player will never catch up with a p2w player.
I am from Belgium and english isn't my main language, sorry if I make mistakes.
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
This is totally the case here.
Can you level faster? Yes you can buy exp boost
Can you have more money? Yes buy keys and sell it
Can you get better ships? Yes a lot of choices here
Can you have top doff? Yes buy duty officer packs
Can you have more ships for admiralty? Yes you can buy brig slots and ship slots, and ships too
Can you upgrade stuff faster? Yes, exchange zen for dilithium and have unlimited upgrades
Can you craft faster? Yes, you can finish the process earlier and you can buy R&D bundles and/or R&D boosts
The true is a free player will never catch up with a p2w player.
For me the critical aspect of pay-to-win is that it creates two classes of players. People that spend money can buy advantages that you can't get without spending money on the game yourself.
The Dilithium/Zen Exchange system is basically what avoid this from happening. If Cryptic releases the new Tier 7 Superdreadnought-Battlecarrier with 3 hangar bays and 6 forward weapon slots and 7 tactical console slots for 16,000 Zen, no one is forced to buy that Zen with his real money. He can grind for Dilithium and exchange it for the Zen. Cryptic still earns money, because the Zen he got for his Dilithium was bought by someone, but it wasn't him. This way, even the biggest whale never gets an advantage others that spend less can't have, and even the poorest player can still achieve any goal.
As a disclaimer: Some people may have different qualifications. But I think creating a 2-class system for players is the most harmful aspect of P2W. It means the true F2Pers are forever second class citizens,and it will be a big turn off. You could just as well say that you only get from level 50 to 60 by spending money.
My perception of P2W is colored by the first time I was exposed to the concept, which was in World of Tanks. The game (AFAIK) doesn't work like that anymore, but back then, the only way to acquire gold ammunition was buying it. And gold ammo greatly improved your chance to penetrate enemy armor, meaning it was a must-have if you wanted to win in a PvP only.
Since the game is a pure PvP title, that makes the 2-class system it creates even worse than it would be in STO, where PvP is just an afterthought.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
STO? A very fun game. Quite enjoyable indeed. Video game comfort food. A nice taste of Trek even if the story is more JJ Trek than Gene Trek. It's obvious that a huge amount of work went into improving the game since I last played. The Cardassian arc is miles improved, just for example.
But you still exhaust what's on offer within a month's time of casual playing... Which is three times longer longer than what it takes to get through NWO, BTW... Like all MMOs, the endgame is raiding for gear to help you raid better. Store is for hats. So it goes.
Greatest? Hardly
Above all there is not even remotely enough content or varied activities to even nominate it for consideration.
And PvP is dead and there is no endgame content to even speak of.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
The best MMORPG ever? Lol, no... not by a long shot. Is it a great F2P MMORPG, yes in so far as it's F2P matrix is the most generous you're likely to find especially when compared to the likes of SWToR.
I have to say, there is no "best" MMORPG on the market. The best ones are the best for different reasons. My first MMO was EVE Online while all my friends were yelling FOR THE HORDE in WoW I was pew pewing low sec and getting killed a lot. I remember the look on my friends faces when I told them if you lost your ship there was no respawn you'd have to buy another with all new gear, as if they imagined dying in PvP and losing a full raid set they spend a month grinding for lol. That's what I loved EVE for, it was unforgiving, the adrenaline rush of warping in onto a target unsure if you would come out in one piece. It rewarded careful planning, coordination with your buddies waiting a jump behind in case you found something juicy to gank.
I moved over to WoW after EVE to see what the fuss was about and it was an absolute blast, I loved it. When TBC came out the wait at the portal was one of the most memorable things I've ever seen in an MMO (more so since I was on a PvP server!). It's past it's prime now, but it's still a VERY good game and Blizzards storytelling is second to none. I really wish they'd get into the movie business, their cinematics are always incredible.
The biggest issues with STO are the blatant power creep issues with DPS being supreme above everything else. The way in which you can PUG one STF after another and no one even responds in chat is worrying for a "multiplayer" game where people are supposed to talk to one and other. Even doing LFG in WoW people would nearly always reply in chat and organise who would do what and where. The gap between a good player and a bad one is so staggeringly huge in STO but I guess that's the price for being F2P, you get REALLY bad players joining and sadly getting all the way to end game for what it's worth without having a basic understanding of core game mechanics because the level cap is so easy to get to. It's also true that Cryptic will cater to the 1% of players who punch perhaps up to 10x more DPS than Joe Casual which means the gulf between players only gets wider and gameplay suffers as a result.
To be honest, it's been at least three years since I played WoW. I might even give it a go again once I get bored of STO again in the next few months.
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STO is free to play except for a tiny minority of veteran rewards which don't gain you much if anything compared to going free. Every single other thing in the game is free with a varying degree of work to get it if you want it, simply by playing the game. I've bought about 3-4 c store ships but I've also ground out the zen for another 3-4 so it's easy enough to do with patience. People seem to act like they want things NOW and can't grasp the idea of actually working for a reward like a ship.
As for free ships, content and items you get loads of stuff! Based on the current trend each year you can for free get: - a T6 winter ship - a T6 summer ship - a T6 anniversary ship - free giveaway ships from anywhere from T1-5 - free costumes from giveaways - mountains of dilithium poured at you from events, which can be run on as many characters as you can afford, or just had free ones. All of which can be turned into money. - free instant access to all new content with the only limit being character level.
That's a lot of free stuff for a supposedly pay-2-win game.
For myself STO is nowhere near the best MMO ever, nor is it in the view of majority of gamers or critics and isnt hailed as one. That said i dont disagree with your opinions that this game is the best for you...great you found a good game for your particular taste. Other MMO out there do certain things far better then STO. Storytelling already mentioned for example in SWOTR....ground combat is terrible in STO there are far better MMO with it, but i must say that combination of ground and space does give the game a certain appeal...F2P element is done better in many other games while here if you are prepared to grind its still okay...PVP i wont even mention...and so on. STO isnt known as a game that brought something revolutionary to the table, its an average MMO that does good and bad things. Why I do play it passionately is simply because its Star trek and for most of the time it does retain that feeling.
I wouldn't say best (haven't played that many MMO's)...but it is my favorite.
Just for comparison sake, I also have SWTOR on my laptop, but almost never play it, because I'd rather be playing STO.
Very rarely does it get played. Pretty much only load it up once every 3-4 months (if that !) and usually when STO is down, for updates, patching, and/or maintenance.
Comments
You don't need the EC cap to buy stuff on the C-Store
You don't need to buy reputation gear...nor do you need to spend dilithium to level reputations
You don't need bank slots to buy from the C-Store
You don't need to upgrade gear to buy items on the C-Store...nor do you need MK XIV Epics to perform most of the content in this game...heck you don't need XIV Epics to do anything.
No one said it was perfect...but it isn't P2W because you aren't willing to put in the time and you prefer the instant gratification of purchasing stuff with money.
If anything it's P2GetThingsQuicker.
Since DR has launched I've gotten multiple T6 ships off the C-Store...only one I paid for was the T6 Intrepid, since I really wanted the bridge, I haven't had much money to spend on STO in a while...but I still get along fine...and I don't even cap dilithium on multiple characters daily.
The only reason I still play is because I like flying a space ship around and because it's star trek and there's no real alternative to get my star trek fix.
Exactly. When the game first did the conversion to dilithium and F2P I was like "$20 for a ship! No F-ing way". Back then you needed to grind it out...every day. Now with all the events, reputation, and just playing dilly you get, it's easy. I own every single "pack" in the game. I didn't spend a cent. The only "grinding" I did (which was painful admittedly) was doing the 14 day events on a bunch of different toons. I actually spent $50 recently during the 15% spend and 20% off ship sale. I bought 2 ship bundles and 3 other single ships including the new Jupiter. I love collecting the different ships.
Someone mentioned they hated the rep system. I think it is one of the best features. It allows players to create a playstyle all their own. Phaser weapon set? Sure. Tetryon set? No problem. AP set? Gotcha covered.
Someone mentioned EVE. EVE is really a great game but it is WAY too hardcore for my taste. You can't really be casual and play the game. Sure the offline skillups are casual and you can take your mining boat into high sec space and mine but all the good stuff is in low sec space which requires WAY too much effort. What I do like about it is that a few small frigates equipped the proper way can easily punish a battleship. The right loadout is everything. The space effects are more "real" feeling than STO as well as the explosions.
Someone also mentioned the graphics of STO are dated. Well sure. The game is almost 6 years old. The ground graphics are ok but the ships and space graphics still look good. I recently got a 4k TV and run STO on that. I created a movie music mod for STO a few years ago that replaces the in game music with music from the movies and listening to that in surround on a 70" 4k TV is really amazing. It's like you are really flying your own ship!
I originally wrote this up to point a few friends at it so they could read what I love about this game. I'm glad to see so many feel the same way.
Live love and prosper fellow Star Trek Geeks!!!
As far as F2P models go, STO has the best one that I have seen. The only other games that are on that level, as F2P goes, would be Path of Exile and Rift.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
I won't tell you that you are wrong because both you and I are entitled to our own opinions. I would like to address many of the issues you pointed out though.
The game is 6 years old. The engine plays like any game that is six years old. You can't knock a game's graphics 6 years after it has been released and compare it to current games. It's not really a fair comparison. What I look at is the fact that is still looks pretty good. The space combat looks and sounds cool. The ships still look great.
This game like all others suffers from balance issues. Every single MMO to date has had these issues. I'm not super thrilled by the things like kemocite behind lockboxes or exorbitant EC costs but I don't have them and I still hold my own. I am often 1-3 on things like Adv. CE event.
I'm not really into PVP but from all the stats I have seen around MMOs the PVP community is a much smaller aspect of games than the PVE community. Mainly because there are way to many min/maxxers that like to show their epeen by griefing or severely overpowering their opponents because their gear is off the charts. They are generally super hard core. So I don't think an active PVP community is a good/bad reflection on an overall game. If STO were like EVE and there wasn't a PVP community I would worry.
I think game immersion has actually gotten better. The story cutscenes, the real actors voice acting, the way some of the missions start like an episode of the TV show...all of that is getting better and better. I have to say though that the music mod I created to replace the in game music with music from the real movies/TV show makes a HUGE difference for me. It's like a whole other game.
Ground combat is poor. No arguing there but then again, this is like 2 MMOs in one. A space physics based game and a ground based physics game. Remember the game Earth & Beyond? They wanted to do a space and ground game but couldn't pull it off. No other MMO has really done this yet...6 years later!
They plan on updating the DoFF system. It does need something. The admiralty system is new and will get better over time. At least there is a use for all those ships now that we have collected over the years. The rewards for doing something so simple are pretty great too.
If you are a min/maxxer then sure, TAC capts are the best because you make stuff go boom real quick. But I have to tell you, with the right gear and setup, a SCI capt with exotic weapons is damn effective...and wicked fun too. I love coming up with different builds and trying to pair them with different weapons/skills to make them successful. That is 1/2 the fun for me.
At least they have events that have good payouts. Not many other games do this. A free T6 ship is a pretty good payout. 50k dilly is a pretty good payout. I think all the rewards are pretty nice based on effort.
Many people have commented or implied that all they care about is $$. It is a big portion of the decision making process as this is a business that employs a bunch of people. They have to make money to keep going. I won't knock them for that. When it gets greedy is when there is a problem. I think their store is fairly reasonable based on how easy it is to make dilly throughout gameplay.
You seem less than enamored by the game so I am curious, it says you have 1200 posts. That seems like a lot of posts by someone that doesn't like the game very much. Why invest so much time in the forums if you don't like the game very much? I would probably move on and probably wouldn't post anything.
As for your counterpoints they all seem like a lot of excuses. Ground combat is bad? Oh it's because it's two games in one. That's not a good reason for bad gameplay.
The doff system was updated once already and it wasn't really an improvement. More like a gui update. As for rewards I did mention that the rewards. It's just not fun. As for the admiralty system it may get new missions added at some point, but if the doff system is any indication we won't be getting much.
I don't dispute the fact that the events pay out great. But are they fun? I don't know anyone, at least anyone I play with, that enjoyed doing the recent mirror event. Particularly the poor mission design where players end up having to wait around for 5 minutes for the second phase of the mission to start because it's time gated.
Everything in this game feels really rushed and cheap when compared with other mmos I've played. They have a deadline to meet and buggy content is released to holodeck to be fixed later. I don't know of many mmos that do that. Even the recent episode had some issues that took, I believe, 3 patches to rectify.
Both of those I hated...Pre-CU was buggy and so many classes were useless...and post-NGE was a wanna be WoW Clone.
STO is the only game that has kept me playing for this long, this winter event being my forth one.
from here on in I can only agree with your assessment of the various changes, as you say cryptic have made a few bad choices but thankfully they have corrected some of them but most of the changes have definitely been for the better.
there is no other game that has kept me playing for even one year let alone nearly four.
I started playing naturally as FTP and then some time later bought the lifetime sub and I have never regretted that choice.
funnily enough I didn't care much for SWTOR, I found the missions to be far too repetitive in as much as you are traversing the same map and fighting the same enemy groups time and time and time again and then when you get to the area where the actual mission objective is its just a matter of flick switch of push button or pull lever and you are done now return over the same repetitive map to hand in your mission and collect the reward.
the free to play system was crippling forcing players to end up paying real money to access much of the content and I also found a lot of other players to be very rude and unhelpful to new players.
it was also very tedious having to continually repair your gear after every mission and at later levels even multiple times during the mission.
the space combat was boring beyond belief offering you virtually no freedom of movement within the map and having to continually circle the same preset course while you attempt to take out the targets then forcing you to pay to play more then 3 space missions a week even including replaying a mission you might have previously failed.
I played it for a few months but soon tired of it.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
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I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
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So pretty much every game in the history of games is P2W then. Legend of Zelda, can't win if you don't pay for the game. Deck of Cards? P2W for sure! Checkers, Chess? Both P2W.
They should rename GameStop P2WStop!
Because they have an unhealthy hatred of communism?
I probably play video games not as long as you do but certainly share your feeling and attitude towards STO.
I only took Delta Rising hard because of the ad hoc increase in game difficulty and increased grind but yea, one year later cryptic has integrated more than enough means to compensate for that.
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I wish Cryptic would take more away from how much fun everything was in that game (up to NGE/CU).
It wasn't perfect, but it certainly brought the flavor of all aspects of the Star Wars Universe to the players.
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Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This is totally the case here.
Can you level faster? Yes you can buy exp boost
Can you have more money? Yes buy keys and sell it
Can you get better ships? Yes a lot of choices here
Can you have top doff? Yes buy duty officer packs
Can you have more ships for admiralty? Yes you can buy brig slots and ship slots, and ships too
Can you upgrade stuff faster? Yes, exchange zen for dilithium and have unlimited upgrades
Can you craft faster? Yes, you can finish the process earlier and you can buy R&D bundles and/or R&D boosts
Whatever the time he spend in game, the free player will never catch up with a p2w player.
For me the critical aspect of pay-to-win is that it creates two classes of players. People that spend money can buy advantages that you can't get without spending money on the game yourself.
The Dilithium/Zen Exchange system is basically what avoid this from happening. If Cryptic releases the new Tier 7 Superdreadnought-Battlecarrier with 3 hangar bays and 6 forward weapon slots and 7 tactical console slots for 16,000 Zen, no one is forced to buy that Zen with his real money. He can grind for Dilithium and exchange it for the Zen. Cryptic still earns money, because the Zen he got for his Dilithium was bought by someone, but it wasn't him. This way, even the biggest whale never gets an advantage others that spend less can't have, and even the poorest player can still achieve any goal.
As a disclaimer: Some people may have different qualifications. But I think creating a 2-class system for players is the most harmful aspect of P2W. It means the true F2Pers are forever second class citizens,and it will be a big turn off. You could just as well say that you only get from level 50 to 60 by spending money.
My perception of P2W is colored by the first time I was exposed to the concept, which was in World of Tanks. The game (AFAIK) doesn't work like that anymore, but back then, the only way to acquire gold ammunition was buying it. And gold ammo greatly improved your chance to penetrate enemy armor, meaning it was a must-have if you wanted to win in a PvP only.
Since the game is a pure PvP title, that makes the 2-class system it creates even worse than it would be in STO, where PvP is just an afterthought.
But you still exhaust what's on offer within a month's time of casual playing... Which is three times longer longer than what it takes to get through NWO, BTW... Like all MMOs, the endgame is raiding for gear to help you raid better. Store is for hats. So it goes.
7.5/10. Would play again.
Best MMO overall? Nope, can't say that. That would probably be Eve Online.
Above all there is not even remotely enough content or varied activities to even nominate it for consideration.
And PvP is dead and there is no endgame content to even speak of.
I have to say, there is no "best" MMORPG on the market. The best ones are the best for different reasons. My first MMO was EVE Online while all my friends were yelling FOR THE HORDE in WoW I was pew pewing low sec and getting killed a lot. I remember the look on my friends faces when I told them if you lost your ship there was no respawn you'd have to buy another with all new gear, as if they imagined dying in PvP and losing a full raid set they spend a month grinding for lol. That's what I loved EVE for, it was unforgiving, the adrenaline rush of warping in onto a target unsure if you would come out in one piece. It rewarded careful planning, coordination with your buddies waiting a jump behind in case you found something juicy to gank.
I moved over to WoW after EVE to see what the fuss was about and it was an absolute blast, I loved it. When TBC came out the wait at the portal was one of the most memorable things I've ever seen in an MMO (more so since I was on a PvP server!). It's past it's prime now, but it's still a VERY good game and Blizzards storytelling is second to none. I really wish they'd get into the movie business, their cinematics are always incredible.
The biggest issues with STO are the blatant power creep issues with DPS being supreme above everything else. The way in which you can PUG one STF after another and no one even responds in chat is worrying for a "multiplayer" game where people are supposed to talk to one and other. Even doing LFG in WoW people would nearly always reply in chat and organise who would do what and where. The gap between a good player and a bad one is so staggeringly huge in STO but I guess that's the price for being F2P, you get REALLY bad players joining and sadly getting all the way to end game for what it's worth without having a basic understanding of core game mechanics because the level cap is so easy to get to. It's also true that Cryptic will cater to the 1% of players who punch perhaps up to 10x more DPS than Joe Casual which means the gulf between players only gets wider and gameplay suffers as a result.
To be honest, it's been at least three years since I played WoW. I might even give it a go again once I get bored of STO again in the next few months.
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Every single other thing in the game is free with a varying degree of work to get it if you want it, simply by playing the game.
I've bought about 3-4 c store ships but I've also ground out the zen for another 3-4 so it's easy enough to do with patience. People seem to act like they want things NOW and can't grasp the idea of actually working for a reward like a ship.
As for free ships, content and items you get loads of stuff!
Based on the current trend each year you can for free get:
- a T6 winter ship
- a T6 summer ship
- a T6 anniversary ship
- free giveaway ships from anywhere from T1-5
- free costumes from giveaways
- mountains of dilithium poured at you from events, which can be run on as many characters as you can afford, or just had free ones. All of which can be turned into money.
- free instant access to all new content with the only limit being character level.
That's a lot of free stuff for a supposedly pay-2-win game.
Just for comparison sake, I also have SWTOR on my laptop, but almost never play it, because I'd rather be playing STO.
Very rarely does it get played. Pretty much only load it up once every 3-4 months (if that !) and usually when STO is down, for updates, patching, and/or maintenance.
If they could revamp ground combat, rebalance the classes and powers and by extension fix PVP I think it would definitely be in the running.
Neverwinter just did some class rebalancing so it can't that difficult programming wise.