And yet, with the revamp of the maps and no sector changes, I think it makes it LESS convenient to have it right on the edge. I keep getting the pop-up, asking if I want to go into the DS9 sector. And if the ENTIRE Galaxy were only 100,00-light years across, then why was Voyager deep in the Delta and nowhere near Earth? I'd say 100,00 each QUADRANT and unless to you have Quantum Slipstream, travelling sector space is monotonous as the best of times, so and again, why not just put everything in the centre of the Alpha Quadrant and stop all of this nonsense with the Beta?
Our galaxy is, in fact, 100,000 light years across. No, really, it's a scientific fact. Voyager's distance from where they originated was listed at about 70,000 light years during Caretaker, right in the script. Ask yourself, if a quadrant was 100,000 light years across, how could this be? At best, they'd be at the very near part of a neighboring quadrant, assuming they started halfway or so out, which is roughly how far out from center Earth is at approximately 30,000 light years out.
in fact that's not entirely correct, although they may not be 70,000 light years as the crow flies so to speak you have to remember that they would not necessarily be able to travel in a strait line as that could take them too close to the centre of the galaxy and that giant black hole that lurks there so it could well be that the shortest possible safe rout they will have to travel will be 70,000 light years in distance.
just as google maps will give you the mileage from one place to another via roads that are not necessarily all in a strait line so the on-board computer would report the shortest safe distance even though this might also not necessarily be in a strait line.
but then going back to my last comment regarding star trek inconsistencies, why did they not instead make their way to the gamma quadrant and the far end of the DS9 wormhole surly that would have been a much quicker way to get home.
my best advice is stop worrying about inconsistencies in the series and movies and the inconsistencies in sto and just enjoy them all for what they are, just a good collection of storys.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
in fact that's not entirely correct, although they may not be 70,000 light years as the crow flies so to speak you have to remember that they would not necessarily be able to travel in a strait line as that could take them too close to the centre of the galaxy and that giant black hole that lurks there so it could well be that the shortest possible safe rout they will have to travel will be 70,000 light years in distance.
from where voyager ended up and where earth is located, i seriously doubt a straight line would take them anywhere near enough to sagittarius a* to be of any concern
it would definitely take them through the core (and thus the great barrier), but they should still be several dozen if not hundred LY short of that supermassive black hole
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
in fact that's not entirely correct, although they may not be 70,000 light years as the crow flies so to speak you have to remember that they would not necessarily be able to travel in a strait line as that could take them too close to the centre of the galaxy and that giant black hole that lurks there so it could well be that the shortest possible safe rout they will have to travel will be 70,000 light years in distance.
from where voyager ended up and where earth is located, i seriously doubt a straight line would take them anywhere near enough to sagittarius a* to be of any concern
it would definitely take them through the core (and thus the great barrier), but they should still be several dozen if not hundred LY short of that supermassive black hole
you will see the rout is far from being strait, on screen that doesn't look like much of a curve but on a galactic scale that is more then enough to account for the extra above that of a strait line to make the journey 70,000 light years in distance.
try putting a strait line between the start and end points to see where a strait line would take them, right through the galactic centre (the big glowie bit in the middle) and far to close to that supermassive black hole for comfort, not good.
even if the black hole didn't suck them in the radiation level could be far too much for voyagers defences to screen out and totally fatal to the crew.
thank you again memory alpha.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
What's really silly is thinking that dividing the galaxy into four equal parts is appropriate.
It's four major divisions, it's split further into blocks, sectors, systems and the various powers that overlap all three subdivisions.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
What's really silly is thinking that dividing the galaxy into four equal parts is appropriate.
We divide planets into hemispheres, why not galaxies into quadrants?
Galaxies are not round balls. Well, some are, but not ours.
It makes pretty decent sense, actually, once you deal with the fact that it's written by humans who have trouble thinking in three dimensions. For all intents and purposes the Milky Way is basically a flat disk: it's only about 1000 ly thick on average, only 1% of its diameter, so for basic direction-finding you can get away with using only two coordinate axes. Though realistically you'd need three, dividing the galaxy into octants. But nobody ever called the Star Trek writers ace astronomers.
Personally I prefer polar coordinates in my own writing, with directions given as "coreward", "rimward", "up-spin", and "down-spin", with an arbitrary up/down.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
honestly I never understood the reason to name the quadrants in this particular order. Normaly people would count them clockwise starting with alpha (current beta) then beta (current alpha) then gamma north of beta and then delta...you know, clockwise.
Instead it is zig-zag, or an inverted "Z"...seems a bit random to me. But I guess canon is canon and the " round clock concept" is something abandoned in the realy federation.
black hole in the center of the galaxy ???? i thought that kirk proved that GOD was at the center of the galaxy......
also star trek inconsistencies are inconsist
We can't visit the centre of the galaxy, because of the insane amount of radiation from the millions of millions of stars tightly clustered together. Gravity wells and of course the black hole there would TRIBBLE with navigation. That's why Voyager had to go around it. To be honest, wouldn't it had been better to make for the gamma quadrant wormhole?
We can't visit the centre of the galaxy, because of the insane amount of radiation from the millions of millions of stars tightly clustered together. Gravity wells and of course the black hole there would TRIBBLE with navigation. That's why Voyager had to go around it. To be honest, wouldn't it had been better to make for the gamma quadrant wormhole?
your assuming that it would be any closer and/or less dangerous. so nope at best it's roughly equal.
and what would you say stranded far from from home and the captian decided to cross two unkown quadrants to get home.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
We can't visit the centre of the galaxy, because of the insane amount of radiation from the millions of millions of stars tightly clustered together. Gravity wells and of course the black hole there would TRIBBLE with navigation. That's why Voyager had to go around it. To be honest, wouldn't it had been better to make for the gamma quadrant wormhole?
Well, with the right spect, escaping gravity wells ain't a problem. Although the galactic center is probably maybe more like GW MCMLXXII, so you may need more than 99 spec points on that.
honestly I never understood the reason to name the quadrants in this particular order. Normaly people would count them clockwise starting with alpha (current beta) then beta (current alpha) then gamma north of beta and then delta...you know, clockwise.
Instead it is zig-zag, or an inverted "Z"...seems a bit random to me. But I guess canon is canon and the " round clock concept" is something abandoned in the realy federation.
Yes, zigzagging is somewhat random, but maybe it was politicians who decided the conventions, not exactly scientists (and since there is no fixed point on the disc to show where to start, so it gets arbitrary like Greenwich for our earthen time zones, it would make sense to call "your" area alpha. And since most of Fed is in beta, it would make sense to change that. But this is not Cryptic's/STO's fault.
Apart from that: clockwise and counterclockwise can only be properly defined when you know from where to look. What is clockwise from one side is counterclockwise from the other. That being said, the default direction in maths and physics is counterclockwise, not clockwise.
Well, if the way it is set up is according to the source material, then fine. Does not change the fact that this game is poorly coded. Take a stroll into Romulas Command and see for yourself. Not just that place, many other maps with major graphics lag regardless of system specs..poor coding is poor.
Has nothing to do whatsoever with this thread (and is untrue, because I normally do not experience any lags on New Rom command. That doesn't mean they don't exist for others, but "regardless of system specs" is not true. And no, I am not running a top notch system here). So after your original, quite harshly worded, post was refuted, you needed another shot at the game, even if nothing to do with what we're discussing?
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
not know, since til voyger we knew nothing about the borg beside they are really powerful. but it was on there list of things to look out, they just hoped they would not run across borg space.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
We can't visit the centre of the galaxy, because of the insane amount of radiation from the millions of millions of stars tightly clustered together. Gravity wells and of course the black hole there would TRIBBLE with navigation. That's why Voyager had to go around it. To be honest, wouldn't it had been better to make for the gamma quadrant wormhole?
Shorter distance, probably, but there's a different problem if they went that direction. VOY started in 2371 (I calculated May based on the stardate given in "Caretaker"), which wasn't long after first contact with the Dominion. Giving Janeway just a little credit for intelligence, she probably figured it'd be simpler to duck around a huge, very hostile state on what was for her the near side of the wormhole.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
They had to know it was likely, from Enterprise D's report.
define likely. they had one cube one point in space with a short chase. and no idea where in borg space that cube was or if if it even was even in borg space, which compared to what we saw in voyger it very well may not have been.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Remember, Picard was connected. He could give a rough layout, guinan would had said where they were too as well.
Not so much. Sure, they'd have the location Q dragged Picard off to and the coordinates of the El-Aurian homeworld, but that's two datapoints across tens of thousands of cubic light-years where they pretty much just know the locations of stars. That is an inconceivably huge volume of space. Starfleet did not have enough data to know exactly where in the DQ the Borg were; they just knew they were in the DQ, period.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
What's really silly is thinking that dividing the galaxy into four equal parts is appropriate.
We divide planets into hemispheres, why not galaxies into quadrants?
Galaxies are not round balls. Well, some are, but not ours.
It makes pretty decent sense, actually, once you deal with the fact that it's written by humans who have trouble thinking in three dimensions. For all intents and purposes the Milky Way is basically a flat disk: it's only about 1000 ly thick on average, only 1% of its diameter, so for basic direction-finding you can get away with using only two coordinate axes. Though realistically you'd need three, dividing the galaxy into octants. But nobody ever called the Star Trek writers ace astronomers.
Personally I prefer polar coordinates in my own writing, with directions given as "coreward", "rimward", "up-spin", and "down-spin", with an arbitrary up/down.
Well, yes and no. The majority of the galaxy is in the disk, but there's a sparse cloud of stars above and below the disk.
Well, yes and no. The majority of the galaxy is in the disk, but there's a sparse cloud of stars above and below the disk.
Then again, mostly around the disc's center, not so much on the outskirts. If you look at the galaxy as a whole, the "height" differences out where Sol lies are really negligible.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Well, yes and no. The majority of the galaxy is in the disk, but there's a sparse cloud of stars above and below the disk.
Then again, mostly around the disc's center, not so much on the outskirts. If you look at the galaxy as a whole, the "height" differences out where Sol lies are really negligible.
Well, yes and no. You're thinking of the bulge. I'm talking about the galactic halo.
why are we bickering over its shape? We all know that the galaxy is going to be remade sooner or later, after it collides with the other galaxy.
It seems a bit pointless. In a few thousand million years (when Star Trek fans finally stop arguing) we're suddenly going to rammed into another galaxy, making all our compromises void .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
In a few thousand million years (when Star Trek fans finally stop arguing)
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I think you give mankind too much credit on that one.
Earth will have become uninhabitable due to the increased luminosity of the Sun, anyway, so it'd be like Star Trek if Earthlings survive this far.
Plus ramming into a galaxy would endanger our poor little ex-homeworld (and maybe the alien species we'd be allied or at war with) more, it wouldn't be much. Space is mostly full of nothingness after all. So if we get destroyed by another ramming galaxy it'd more due to bad luck than being predicted.
Comments
in fact that's not entirely correct, although they may not be 70,000 light years as the crow flies so to speak you have to remember that they would not necessarily be able to travel in a strait line as that could take them too close to the centre of the galaxy and that giant black hole that lurks there so it could well be that the shortest possible safe rout they will have to travel will be 70,000 light years in distance.
just as google maps will give you the mileage from one place to another via roads that are not necessarily all in a strait line so the on-board computer would report the shortest safe distance even though this might also not necessarily be in a strait line.
but then going back to my last comment regarding star trek inconsistencies, why did they not instead make their way to the gamma quadrant and the far end of the DS9 wormhole surly that would have been a much quicker way to get home.
my best advice is stop worrying about inconsistencies in the series and movies and the inconsistencies in sto and just enjoy them all for what they are, just a good collection of storys.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
from where voyager ended up and where earth is located, i seriously doubt a straight line would take them anywhere near enough to sagittarius a* to be of any concern
it would definitely take them through the core (and thus the great barrier), but they should still be several dozen if not hundred LY short of that supermassive black hole
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
if you look at the picture from the series of the astrometrics lab here >
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/5/5f/Astrometrics.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070906022131&path-prefix=en
and the close up image of the display with voyagers entire planned jouney shown here >
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/4/4b/Voyager_route.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060325142324&path-prefix=en
you will see the rout is far from being strait, on screen that doesn't look like much of a curve but on a galactic scale that is more then enough to account for the extra above that of a strait line to make the journey 70,000 light years in distance.
try putting a strait line between the start and end points to see where a strait line would take them, right through the galactic centre (the big glowie bit in the middle) and far to close to that supermassive black hole for comfort, not good.
even if the black hole didn't suck them in the radiation level could be far too much for voyagers defences to screen out and totally fatal to the crew.
thank you again memory alpha.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
It's four major divisions, it's split further into blocks, sectors, systems and the various powers that overlap all three subdivisions.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
We divide planets into hemispheres, why not galaxies into quadrants?
It makes pretty decent sense, actually, once you deal with the fact that it's written by humans who have trouble thinking in three dimensions. For all intents and purposes the Milky Way is basically a flat disk: it's only about 1000 ly thick on average, only 1% of its diameter, so for basic direction-finding you can get away with using only two coordinate axes. Though realistically you'd need three, dividing the galaxy into octants. But nobody ever called the Star Trek writers ace astronomers.
Personally I prefer polar coordinates in my own writing, with directions given as "coreward", "rimward", "up-spin", and "down-spin", with an arbitrary up/down.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Instead it is zig-zag, or an inverted "Z"...seems a bit random to me. But I guess canon is canon and the " round clock concept" is something abandoned in the realy federation.
also star trek inconsistencies are inconsist
We can't visit the centre of the galaxy, because of the insane amount of radiation from the millions of millions of stars tightly clustered together. Gravity wells and of course the black hole there would TRIBBLE with navigation. That's why Voyager had to go around it. To be honest, wouldn't it had been better to make for the gamma quadrant wormhole?
your assuming that it would be any closer and/or less dangerous. so nope at best it's roughly equal.
and what would you say stranded far from from home and the captian decided to cross two unkown quadrants to get home.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Well, with the right spect, escaping gravity wells ain't a problem. Although the galactic center is probably maybe more like GW MCMLXXII, so you may need more than 99 spec points on that.
Yes, zigzagging is somewhat random, but maybe it was politicians who decided the conventions, not exactly scientists (and since there is no fixed point on the disc to show where to start, so it gets arbitrary like Greenwich for our earthen time zones, it would make sense to call "your" area alpha. And since most of Fed is in beta, it would make sense to change that. But this is not Cryptic's/STO's fault.
Apart from that: clockwise and counterclockwise can only be properly defined when you know from where to look. What is clockwise from one side is counterclockwise from the other. That being said, the default direction in maths and physics is counterclockwise, not clockwise.
Has nothing to do whatsoever with this thread (and is untrue, because I normally do not experience any lags on New Rom command. That doesn't mean they don't exist for others, but "regardless of system specs" is not true. And no, I am not running a top notch system here). So after your original, quite harshly worded, post was refuted, you needed another shot at the game, even if nothing to do with what we're discussing?
not know, since til voyger we knew nothing about the borg beside they are really powerful. but it was on there list of things to look out, they just hoped they would not run across borg space.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Shorter distance, probably, but there's a different problem if they went that direction. VOY started in 2371 (I calculated May based on the stardate given in "Caretaker"), which wasn't long after first contact with the Dominion. Giving Janeway just a little credit for intelligence, she probably figured it'd be simpler to duck around a huge, very hostile state on what was for her the near side of the wormhole.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
define likely. they had one cube one point in space with a short chase. and no idea where in borg space that cube was or if if it even was even in borg space, which compared to what we saw in voyger it very well may not have been.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
yet, they didn't know where it was till the found that dead drone. so it seems whatever info they got was rather limited if not useless.
I would continue but sadly I have to go to work.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
Then again, mostly around the disc's center, not so much on the outskirts. If you look at the galaxy as a whole, the "height" differences out where Sol lies are really negligible.
My character Tsin'xing
It seems a bit pointless. In a few thousand million years (when Star Trek fans finally stop arguing) we're suddenly going to rammed into another galaxy, making all our compromises void
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I think you give mankind too much credit on that one.
Earth will have become uninhabitable due to the increased luminosity of the Sun, anyway, so it'd be like Star Trek if Earthlings survive this far.
Plus ramming into a galaxy would endanger our poor little ex-homeworld (and maybe the alien species we'd be allied or at war with) more, it wouldn't be much. Space is mostly full of nothingness after all. So if we get destroyed by another ramming galaxy it'd more due to bad luck than being predicted.