Will DS9 ever be scaled correctly?

mattjohnsonva

Will DS9 ever be scaled correctly?

nightken

nope, from what I've heard at one point it was, but it looked to small so they made bigger.

marcusdkane

With the model kit of DS-9, it's possible to wedge the MicroMachine edition of the Defiant in the docking clamp... And the proportions are the same as per the show...

smokeybacon90

nightken wrote: »

nope, from what I've heard at one point it was, but it looked to small so they made bigger.

i.e. it looked correct, so they made it wrong?

kagasensei

A Dev once commented on that... It's all about being able to properly display an object in relation to a larger group of players as well as symbolically display the size of a location via its outward appearance. It was a conscious decision for Cryptic to ridiculously oversize DS9 and K7, as these stations canon-models would be approximately the same size or smaller than the bigger player ships... Relating to a social hub that is smaller than your own avatar didn't feel "right" apparently...

If you ask me, the best option would be to make the "DS9 System" map an instance for 5 players max and to completely redo the station model at canon size (the current model is just poor quality, not only size-wise).

A real problem would be the large battle outside the station in "Boldly They Rode". The station would simply completely disappear among all the starships if it was canonically sized.

As for K7... remove it from the game. Its interior is of extremely low quality and the station serves no real purpose (other than a few breadcrumb missions).

mustrumridcully0

smokeybacon90 wrote: »

nightken wrote: »

nope, from what I've heard at one point it was, but it looked to small so they made bigger.

i.e. it looked correct, so they made it wrong?

Yes.

With 20 player ships around, the correctly sized DS9 would seem unimpressive and kinda lost in space.

I don't mind either way. Much more important to fix that interior.

irwin109

I feel a lot of this game needs a rescale, some bits are far too small and then bits like DS9 are too big, or our ships are the wrong size (and most definitely not the right size in comparison with one another)

farshore

My first thought was that the Defiant had infamous scaling problems.

chiyoumiku

I get why they did it to be honest. In reguards to K7's interior, I wish they'd revamp it. seriously. It is used for missions and it warrents an overhaul to make it more in line with ESD and the forthcoming DS9 change.

ryugasirius

The "actual" DS9 would be only slightly larger than a D'deridex class warbird. Pretty unimpressive. So it was enlarged (all space stations are made larger to convey a sense of "mass", and "persistence", a fixed point in space rather than just a spaceship-without-engines). It's just a visual thing.

kayajay

Off-topic, but the other day, I'm beamed-up from DS9 and my Annorax was docked at an upper pylon...perfectly.

taylor1701d

I don't mind K-7... It's a little sparse perhaps..
It could use a little ESD interior treatment. But its not all that bad a starbase really.
I used to go there frequently to restock batteries and switch up loadouts/ships for Ker'rat.

baudl

they could just eliminate the whole problem by getting rid of this zone "step" completely...just put the button for docking at DS9 in sector space so that you can transition directly from sector space to the interiour. Same for K-7 and some other stations.

toiva

As noted upthread, DS9 scaled correctly seemed too small.

Personally, I'd rather have correct scale and maybe lower instance player limit. But the choice isn't mine.

royalsovereign

Leave K-7 alone. It serves a purpose for players with less-than-minimum spec machines because it is far less lag-inducing than the new ESD.

lianthelia

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

Will DS9 ever be scaled correctly?

Probably have to do with that I just woke up...but that picture made me lol...seeing that tiny little Defiant there. Could dock that Defiant in the station!

kyrrok

I don't really see the need to rescale. It certainly is not the size as compared to the shows, but unless we're actually deciding on which size station to build to accomodate which size ship, I don't see the importance. I'm willing to just write the whole thing off and say it's just a game.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

kerygan

because it would fit into a Odissey , or other larger ship. This is the ST game, not show. I doubt that in the show was or will be a fleet of Scimitars @ DS9.

timelord79

In that shot of the show the Defiant is a bit too large. It was made that way for the same reason as the station is too big in the game.
To make it look good.
that picture makes the Defiant almost as big as a Galaxy class saucer.
In some action scenes when it is flying around the station fighting Klingons it is much better scaled.

I would not mind if the game's station would be reduced in size a bit as a compromise.
If you want to recreate some iconic shots from the show, I advice to look into forced perspective.
That works surprisingly well.

xayss

if you see the federation base or any fleet base is the same size a class galaxy cant enter into base doors

captainoblivous

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

smokeybacon90 wrote: »

nightken wrote: »

nope, from what I've heard at one point it was, but it looked to small so they made bigger.

i.e. it looked correct, so they made it wrong?

I don't mind either way. Much more important to fix that interior.

What is so broken about the interior? I can understand that it needs work, but it doesn't need a total redo like what happened to esd (I'm still not too fussed about that either.). Texture work, adding more bank and mail terminals, more/better direction signs etc. An overhaul, rather than a replacement.

gulberat

I want to be able to dock on the upper and lower pylons. That would be a fun thing if it actually worked and resulted in automatically transferring you to the DS9 ground map...

mayito2009

If you look at the real shot the one from the show, you realize that the ship is a tad too big in comparison with the station, in the show you see people walking in the station like in the game with plenty of room. That ship in the show is too big for the station, so the STO approach makes more sense than the show.

gulberat

captainoblivous wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

smokeybacon90 wrote: »

nightken wrote: »

nope, from what I've heard at one point it was, but it looked to small so they made bigger.

i.e. it looked correct, so they made it wrong?

I don't mind either way. Much more important to fix that interior.

What is so broken about the interior? I can understand that it needs work, but it doesn't need a total redo like what happened to esd (I'm still not too fussed about that either.). Texture work, adding more bank and mail terminals, more/better direction signs etc. An overhaul, rather than a replacement.

The DS9 interior doesn't look much like the show IMO. For starters, lighting aboard the station in canon was always much closer to what we currently see in game on Drozana Station. Heck, even parts of the new ESD come closer to the correct ambience despite the Fed architecture. A lot of the "Cardassianness" of the station has been lost. I am hopeful we'll get a revamp but if I were on the dev team I'd hold that until last because of how much hype there is about it.

The one hangup that could happen would be with Boldly They Rode, but all that would require IMO would be to pass that off as a different area and not the Promenade.

hypl

The interior could use a revamp to accurately reflect the show, particularly Quark's bar. The exterior could use some texture and lighting updates. As for it's size, it's probably best to keep it as-is, even if it does look kind of silly.

shar487a

The Defiant has always been over-sized next to DS9 on TV. A quick Google search for "DS9 docked ships" illustrates how other ships scaled, especially when a Galaxy was docked on one of the upper pylons.

a3001

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

Will DS9 ever be scaled correctly?

Short answer: never.

mayito2009

If you honestly look at that picture and compare the size with the station, the people inside the ship would be like 13 meters tall.

orangeitis

kagasensei wrote: »

A Dev once commented on that... It's all about being able to properly display an object in relation to a larger group of players as well as symbolically display the size of a location via its outward appearance. It was a conscious decision for Cryptic to ridiculously oversize DS9 and K7, as these stations canon-models would be approximately the same size or smaller than the bigger player ships... Relating to a social hub that is smaller than your own avatar didn't feel "right" apparently...

If you ask me, the best option would be to make the "DS9 System" map an instance for 5 players max and to completely redo the station model at canon size (the current model is just poor quality, not only size-wise).

A real problem would be the large battle outside the station in "Boldly They Rode". The station would simply completely disappear among all the starships if it was canonically sized.

As for K7... remove it from the game. Its interior is of extremely low quality and the station serves no real purpose (other than a few breadcrumb missions).

That's a RIDICULOUS, unjustified reason, devs. If that "larger group of players" looks bad alongside a properly-scaled DS9, the properly-scaled DS9 is not the problem. The proper solution would be to rework how docking procedures go, make the number of players per instance smaller, or even enlarge the players' warp-in location.

I disagree here about K-7 though. I don't think anything should be permanently removed because revamping is an option. Maybe it's not right now, but it could be later on.

bobbydazlers

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

smokeybacon90 wrote: »

nightken wrote: »

nope, from what I've heard at one point it was, but it looked to small so they made bigger.

i.e. it looked correct, so they made it wrong?

Yes.

With 20 player ships around, the correctly sized DS9 would seem unimpressive and kinda lost in space.

I don't mind either way. Much more important to fix that interior.

my sentiments exactly, the promenade should be in the middle with the habitat ring where the current map is based.