Too few Carriers, why?

bindingchains

I might be wrong, but the last Carrier (2 hangar carrier) was added close to a year ago, the winter event Breen Carrier. I've been away for 5 months and apparently there has not been a single new Carrier since that. This game has a formidable number of escort and cruiser class ships, but when it comes to carriers (2 hangar, hopefully 3 someday?).. its almost a joke. Isnt it time to start making some serious effort to balance that? As a 2 hangar carrier player, I've been hoping for nice options since I started playing, several years ago.

warmaker001b

Meh, Hangar Units have repeatedly been hit with the Nerf Bat since last year. It's not really worth using them anymore.

seriousdave

warmaker001b wrote: »

Meh, Hangar Units have repeatedly been hit with the Nerf Bat since last year. It's not really worth using them anymore.

That and the hangar commands & pet AI really aren't up to snuff either. Like pets refusing to go full impulse and stay behing on the other side of the map, just to name one of many issues......

There are exceptions though but those are very few.

warmaker001b

seriousdave wrote: »

warmaker001b wrote: »

Meh, Hangar Units have repeatedly been hit with the Nerf Bat since last year. It's not really worth using them anymore.

That and the hangar commands & pet AI really aren't up to snuff either. Like pets refusing to go full impulse and stay behing on the other side of the map, just to name one of many issues......

There are exceptions though but those are very few.

It's all disappointing, really. I used to be a very hardcore Carrier player. Not the 1-Hangar Slot pretenders. The true, 2-Hangar Slot types. For PVE and PVP they used to rock really good. Now they're just for light shows and pretending they actually do something.

mustrumridcully0

I always thought STO had too many Carriers. There has never been a clear canonical depiction of carriers with swarms of fighters, even if background material sometimes suggested otherwise (and was often contradicted by on screen evidence). But let's not roll up that old debate.

I suspect that there are diehard Carrier fans** and diehard Science Vessel fans* - and they represent a minority. Which is why Cryptic doesn't make too many of them, as the market saturates quickly.

Maybe it's all the overpoweredness of BFAW, but I am not so sure... It seems Cruisers were always more popular, even when Escorts where the master race of space ships.


*) I am one of them.
**) I am not one of them.

brian334

Ah, for the good old days, when Science Ships ruled the aether, and Cruisers were our healboats. Back then we sometimes let our pet Escorts out, but only if they were bugships.

We said, "Ye," and "Hark," a lot back then too.

captainoblivous

Because their pets were nerfed heavily not so long ago and they are more of a pain in the TRIBBLE to use than they ever were. At least in the old days if the pets bugged out or flew off to the other side of the map you could just spawn a new set right away. Nowadays you can't do that.

Really, they aren't worth the extra aggro*.

*Aggro as in personal stress, rather than enemy aggro.

peterconnorfirst

Yea OP. I also think its time for a Tier 6 Recluse.

karlbarb

I'm a big carrier fan myself, but it's true that they feel weaker. I get the impression that carrier pets were originally made for level 50 content and haven't scaled up.

lizwei

JHAS pets remain pretty dominant.
I'm sure this has nothing to do with the exhorbitant prices needed for access to them..

vonhellsting

Romulans don't even have one yet.

lianthelia

They never really added many true carriers, since the Atrox we haven't seen a faction Carrier...since the Atrox we've only seen 4 Carriers, 3 of which are lock box related. In total all we have are 7 full Carriers in game...

Trouble is the way of the game...all people want is the pew pew...but Cryptic seems to want to nerf everything to the ground that isn't beams...and carriers generally have 6 weapons like Sci ships...since they crushed pets they aren't a viable alternative to weapons.

Best bet is a Command Cruiser...get a Hangar and 8 weapons...so can do pew pew FaW with pets...

davefenestrator

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Yea OP. I also think its time for a Tier 6 Recluse.

If that is a lock box ship instead of a 700 million EC R&D pack ship . . .SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

ataloss

warmaker001b wrote: »

Meh, Hangar Units have repeatedly been hit with the Nerf Bat since last year. It's not really worth using them anymore.

I agree, as much as I enjoy piloting a carrier, they aren't worth it anymore. The carrier pets have been beaten half to death with the nerf bat. The ONLY saving grace would be to make carrier pets immune to warp core breaches.

bindingchains

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I always thought STO had too many Carriers. There has never been a clear canonical depiction of carriers with swarms of fighters, even if background material sometimes suggested otherwise (and was often contradicted by on screen evidence). But let's not roll up that old debate.

I suspect that there are diehard Carrier fans** and diehard Science Vessel fans* - and they represent a minority. Which is why Cryptic doesn't make too many of them, as the market saturates quickly.

There are not too many. There are like 7 full carriers, not hybrids with only 1 hangar, carriers with 2 hangars. Like someone said, the Romulans dont even have a carrier for theirselves, how can the market get saturated?

Due to the lack of carriers, gameplay problems and serious nerfs its more than expected people wont use them, but not for preference, because Cryptic is not helping and making them useless! So if they are turning their back on Carriers rather than fix them or add more, to incentive their use, they are doing a terrible game management/improvement job.

lianthelia

bindingchains wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I always thought STO had too many Carriers. There has never been a clear canonical depiction of carriers with swarms of fighters, even if background material sometimes suggested otherwise (and was often contradicted by on screen evidence). But let's not roll up that old debate.

I suspect that there are diehard Carrier fans** and diehard Science Vessel fans* - and they represent a minority. Which is why Cryptic doesn't make too many of them, as the market saturates quickly.

There are not too many. There are like 7 full carriers, not hybrids with only 1 hangar, carriers with 2 hangars. Like someone said, the Romulans dont even have a carrier for theirselves, how can the market get saturated?

Due to the lack of carriers, gameplay problems and serious nerfs its more than expected people wont use them, but not for preference, because Cryptic is not helping and making them useless! So if they are turning their back on Carriers rather than fix them or add more, to incentive their use, they are doing a terrible game management/improvement job.

Does this honestly surprise you? I mean they do this with everything...

Cannons suck - check
Torpedoes suck - check
Mines suck - double check
Fighters suck - check
Carriers suck - check
Science sucks - check
Escorts suck - well if you know how to fly them well or have all the fancy traits and stuff not...

This game is basically centered around flying Beam Cruisers these days...if one is really paranoid you could even say the Tachyon Beam buff the Borg and the Iconian ramming speed stuff were designed to make lighter ships like Escorts and Sci's harder to fly...I know I'm having a hell of a time with it after switching over from my Sarr Theln to a Pilot Escort.

I lose my shields in seconds and I have to remain vulnerable until the beam is done because any shield heal will just drain too...plus in my last GtG Advanced several times in a row I was crit hit by the Baltim Raiders for more than my entire hull strength.

bioixi

Maybe they should get a new equipment slot, something like the secondary deflector sci-ships got but carrier style for a bit more customization, I mean, several items that fit in the same unique slot and give different bonuses.

For example:

-Deploy an extra wing (3 fighters/1 frigate).
-Automatically recall heavily damaged ships and a bonus to their repair rate
-Add an extra ability
-etc.

I think we should be able to customize our frigates/fighter wings, I don't mean using our own items, but being able to choose from a variety of weapon, equipment, ability and energy configurations.

mustrumridcully0

brian334 wrote: »

Ah, for the good old days, when Science Ships ruled the aether, and Cruisers were our healboats. Back then we sometimes let our pet Escorts out, but only if they were bugships.

We said, "Ye," and "Hark," a lot back then too.

No, the other old times, when the game was called Escorts Online. I thin

bindingchains wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I always thought STO had too many Carriers. There has never been a clear canonical depiction of carriers with swarms of fighters, even if background material sometimes suggested otherwise (and was often contradicted by on screen evidence). But let's not roll up that old debate.

I suspect that there are diehard Carrier fans** and diehard Science Vessel fans* - and they represent a minority. Which is why Cryptic doesn't make too many of them, as the market saturates quickly.

There are not too many. There are like 7 full carriers, not hybrids with only 1 hangar, carriers with 2 hangars. Like someone said, the Romulans dont even have a carrier for theirselves, how can the market get saturated?

By the non-Romulan-specific-but-Romulan-Available Carriers, of course. And I think the 1-hangar carriers also tell Cryptic something about how many of the Romulan players really, really want to have a Carrier.​​

nobadee

Hanger bay pets are rather worthless in their current incarnation. Within about sixty seconds of combat all of my pets are dead, due to core breaches or they are trying to play catch up with me. It's almost like having a fifth wheel. On top of this, hanger bay types are worthless and almost never used. Cryptic really needs to wake up to the reality of just how horribly unbalanced EVERYTHING in this game is.

devilzaphan

Carriers are not totally worthless on the pve side of the game, depending on the type of hanger pet deployed they can be somewhat effective. I recently went back to playing with a carrier(Xindi) instead of tactical carrier with beams and i find it still can chew up 3 to 4 enemies in 10 minutes on elite setting.
Even with the nerfs to hanger pets i still want to fly carriers, and i'm not alone as i have seen a few carriers around. Granted Cryptic does need to make faction specific carriers and beef them up some, carriers used to be great tanks as well as annoyances to other fleets in pvp and granted they need to give pet A.I. better script. Can't say all pets are viable right now as some are very poor.

dagorheru

personally, i think they should up the AI on hull seperations and hanger pets. but they need to make a carrier that is a carrier. the escort carrier is like the WWII battleship that launched a fighter, while the carriers are like escort carriers only dabling their toes into the carrier field. make a carrier that is a carrier, maybe like 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, but like 6+ hangers. and a command to launch all fighters till max is out per hanger bay.

devilzaphan

dagorheru wrote: »

personally, i think they should up the AI on hull seperations and hanger pets. but they need to make a carrier that is a carrier. the escort carrier is like the WWII battleship that launched a fighter, while the carriers are like escort carriers only dabling their toes into the carrier field. make a carrier that is a carrier, maybe like 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, but like 6+ hangers. and a command to launch all fighters till max is out per hanger bay.

There is a way they can get around this hanger limit by increasing the number of pets deployed in each hanger but i like to keep the weapon slots 4/3 and have some kind of 360 deg point defense for torps even if it takes up one of the weapon slots and give carriers a decent turn rate.

coupaholic

I'm not into carriers myself. I did try to use them but just couldn't get on with the clunky commands and the pets' annoying habit of getting themselves killed.

Some TLC would be good. Simply having pets avoid all the huge explosions would be a good start.​​

hunteralpha84

Didn't you guys hear? Theyre making a T6 carrier pack with a new carrier for each faction. Plus frigate class hanger pets for feds and romulans!*






*may not be true

bernatk

dagorheru wrote: »

personally, i think they should up the AI on hull seperations and hanger pets. but they need to make a carrier that is a carrier. the escort carrier is like the WWII battleship that launched a fighter, while the carriers are like escort carriers only dabling their toes into the carrier field. make a carrier that is a carrier, maybe like 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, but like 6+ hangers. and a command to launch all fighters till max is out per hanger bay.

And what would you hang on them?

ataloss

dagorheru wrote: »

personally, i think they should up the AI on hull seperations and hanger pets. but they need to make a carrier that is a carrier. the escort carrier is like the WWII battleship that launched a fighter, while the carriers are like escort carriers only dabling their toes into the carrier field. make a carrier that is a carrier, maybe like 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, but like 6+ hangers. and a command to launch all fighters till max is out per hanger bay.

I think they are affraid to make a 2 fore/2 aft carrier. Why? Because the DPS'ers will complain that it's hurting their elite game rewards.

As much as I support your idea, Cryptic will also have to remove the warp core breach from destroying hanger pets. If they made them immune, I'm sure hangar pets will last much longer.

xayss

i personally think the carriers are made just for support other ships and his pets are only for defense, in my case i got a atrox with romulan pets fighter they doit alot of dmg with his torpedos and use some sci skills for doit more exta dmg,iam mostly one torpedo boat with few beams,alot of shield and hull , but i always keep in second line of atack,anyway no big ships mess with me even i blow up a cube or a any mother ship cross in my path. one example in fleet defense i can deal with one entire group of enemys and the rest of 4 guys can deal with ther other group atack the base , or i can defend one cargo ship and same time fight with the enemy groupd wanna destroy the cargo ship.

paxdawn

ataloss wrote: »

I think they are affraid to make a 2 fore/2 aft carrier. Why? Because the DPS'ers will complain that it's hurting their elite game rewards.

You cannot push DPS to the limit without a carrier like a recluse. It is upto the playerbase if they create a stigma for nanny recluses.

ataloss wrote: »

As much as I support your idea, Cryptic will also have to remove the warp core breach from destroying hanger pets. If they made them immune, I'm sure hangar pets will last much longer.

Scramble fighters is already powerful enough to boost pet damage and boost pet survivability. Even players get killed by warp core breech. Is this one of those demanding an I-Win button?

peterconnorfirst

davefenestrator wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Yea OP. I also think its time for a Tier 6 Recluse.

If that is a lock box ship instead of a 700 million EC R&D pack ship . . .SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

Call me optimistic but I think it will be a lock box ship sooner or later because cryptic just loves our money. The 700 ec madness is left for the Tarantula.

Friend of mine and I used carriers to 2 man KASA right side yesterday. I was in Recluse (of course) and he in the Jem Dread. Was funny, I didn’t estimate our combined DPS to higher than that of the three left squad team mates, yet we finished it much sooner.
Glad that one of my chars is a carrier pilot. Gives the toon a unique role in my gang. With all the traits available I found frigates to have quiet a survivability.

uryenserellont

My plesh brek frigate pets love to circle the target in lazy, wide arcs spamming their useless turrets, then refuse to return when I command them to dock. It's been true with every carrier and pet I've used so far.

Pet AI is as bad as it can be. At the very least pet AI needs to be changed so they swoop in on attack runs spamming all their weapons, then swoop out to about 10k away and turn at half or quarter impulse for another attack run. They have to behave like real life fighter planes attacking ground targets or surface ships or they're useless. Fighters don't lazily circle the target, they attack head-on in strafing runs with guns blazing, rockets etc., climb away, turn and get ready for another pass if necessary.

Might be even better to think of them like torpedo bombers launched from a carrier. Imagine if they circled their target and let their rear gunner plink away at it? Utter nonsense, yet that's exactly what pets do in this game.

It would be fine if they were broadside pets or if they simply had 360 degree weapons like shuttles have. That in fact might be an easier fix than improving their AI.

rattler2

And that is why I used Advanced Slavers. Beam Arrays. Also... the sight of 12 little bugs firing beam arrays off at a single target never gets old.