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Kemocite laced weapons - really?

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  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    do you have a poster of yourself on your bedroom ceiling flashing a thumbs up and a wink?
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • hipachilleshipachilles Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Edit: I do like the idea of the devs trolling the exchange with a "classic gear" lock box. KLW manuals, Plasmonic Leech, the expensive doffs, 50 million EC traits, etc.

    They would make a killing with this. Throw in the "event" ships and items, too. I have been without my exocomp for years (sent it on a colonization mission years ago before the red letters warning you about losing doffs) with no way to reclaim it.
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    It's a player driven market and messing with the marked directly is most often a bad thing.

    We just need some EC sink. Outside of the exchange or other player to player transactions, what do players buy with EC? not much. On the flip side, how many ways is there to make EC? Lots. The farm vs spend ratio is way on the farm side leading to some inflation.

    OK, in all reality you have the best idea here. As much as I want Cryptic to make it easier to get the expensive shinies that have been lost to time, doing so might not be the smartest thing for the economy. The next lockbox re-run will add some supply and push down prices a bit.

    Until then, I am hoping a new Tac BOFF power gets released to make KLW less desired and a new EC sink is added. I can't remember the last time I spent EC at a vendor. The best items come from the exchange, lockboxes, lobi, rep, or fleet stores.
    Post edited by hipachilles on
  • bioixibioixi Member Posts: 764 Arc User
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.
  • bioixibioixi Member Posts: 764 Arc User
    bioixi wrote: »
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.

    You never figured space rich people have hoards of items?

    So? everyone will have 100k EC, they'll have a lot of "expensive" items and no-one to sell them to.
  • sdkraustsdkraust Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    bioixi wrote: »
    bioixi wrote: »
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.

    You never figured space rich people have hoards of items?

    So? everyone will have 100k EC, they'll have a lot of "expensive" items and no-one to sell them to.

    So everyone would go on a giant vender trash spree?
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    sdkraust wrote: »
    bioixi wrote: »
    bioixi wrote: »
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.

    You never figured space rich people have hoards of items?

    So? everyone will have 100k EC, they'll have a lot of "expensive" items and no-one to sell them to.

    So everyone would go on a giant vender trash spree?
    It's even worse than that. You don't need to go on a vendor trash spree. People will probably simply nots ell the really big ticket items (like Lockbox ships), but they can sell cheaper items, like lockbox weapons or traits. Maybe at a grossly reduced price compared to what we have now - just enough that the 100k EC people without anything can star buying it. But at that point, the guys that own something are making profit, and have an advantage over the rest.


    The current state of things did start with everyone being on equal grounds. Everyone started at Level 1 with no Energy Credit to his or her name. And yet, fast forward 5 years later, we have the have-nots and the space-rich.
    What will happen if you don't even start on equal grounds?​​
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • bioixibioixi Member Posts: 764 Arc User
    sdkraust wrote: »
    bioixi wrote: »
    bioixi wrote: »
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.

    You never figured space rich people have hoards of items?

    So? everyone will have 100k EC, they'll have a lot of "expensive" items and no-one to sell them to.

    So everyone would go on a giant vender trash spree?
    It's even worse than that. You don't need to go on a vendor trash spree. People will probably simply nots ell the really big ticket items (like Lockbox ships), but they can sell cheaper items, like lockbox weapons or traits. Maybe at a grossly reduced price compared to what we have now - just enough that the 100k EC people without anything can star buying it. But at that point, the guys that own something are making profit, and have an advantage over the rest.


    The current state of things did start with everyone being on equal grounds. Everyone started at Level 1 with no Energy Credit to his or her name. And yet, fast forward 5 years later, we have the have-nots and the space-rich.
    What will happen if you don't even start on equal grounds?​​

    It would still take several years to reach this level of economy inflation.
  • hyefatherhyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    Yeah I paid 140m for the lieutenant level for my efficient saurian BOff.

    Then I paid 145m for another lieutenant level for my pirate fed nausicaan.

    They will probably add another tactical BOff with good space abilities and I will buy another one for them too.

    You and Me, need to talk. I could have and maybe still can save you a ton of ECs. I have 5 characters at max level and max reputation. 4 of those characters are Fed and 1 is Klingon. So that means I'm able to get 4 Klingon boffs for the fed side and 1 Fed boff for the Klingon side. TBH, I'd forgot all about being able to claim those boffs until I read your post. If your interested in getting a few more feds with pirate, give me a whisper ingame. I promise they will be alot cheaper than 140 mil.

    Groot@hyefather Federation
    Paitheon@hyefather Federation
    Bloodbeard@hyefather Federation
    Stryker@hyefather Reman/Fed
    Gilgamesh@hyefather Klingon

    P.S. Don't forget.
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    @hyefather

    BOFF trading was patched out of the game a few months ago, sorry. It really does suck.
  • hyefatherhyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    @hyefather

    BOFF trading was patched out of the game a few months ago, sorry. It really does suck.

    When I get FU#K?D, I get FU#K?D at all ends. Figures.

  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    I hear you man, I find EC easier to grind than FC so I bought most of my BOFF's before the change. But I want more, guess I'll just have to bite the bullet.
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Aside from the fact that it is morally wrong to take people's money arbitrarily, 100k ec is laughable. You can't even blow your nose in 100k ec.

    The better solution is to adjust the silver ec cap to 50mil approximately matching inflation, and raise the gold cap to 10bil. As more gold is mined, players are given more space to put their gold.

    The real travesty is that the ec cap is the same as it has been for years, even as the economy has inflated.
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    You're never going to get space rich selling TRIBBLE to vendors. If it matters to you which vendor you sell garbage to, you're doing something terribly wrong.

    You can only get space rich by selling things to other players.

    You walloped it right out of the park.
    Especially in todays market.


    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    bioixi wrote: »
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.

    You never figured space rich people have hoards of items?

    Good point, let's also wipe all items not currently equipped on the active ship or player character, including all boxed ships and all unused manuals.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    bioixi wrote: »
    bioixi wrote: »
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.

    You never figured space rich people have hoards of items?

    So? everyone will have 100k EC, they'll have a lot of "expensive" items and no-one to sell them to.

    Well as a "rich" dude... I can tell you if they did that most of us would likely just leave. However more likely in my case I would just go play another MMO for a month or two. When I get back, you will all be flush with EC again and way I go same as it was. You don't seem to understand. When I say I have somewhere in and around 10-15ish billion or so the majority of it is in items. Sure I have a few toons with a nice big fat EC stack... but most of my stuff is in lockbox ships/traits/doff packs oh and my 20 or so 999 stacks of lobi (I logged into a neglected toon the other day and realized I had another 10 stacks of lobi there, first world problems). I know people that have 2x what I have. Thing is ALL of our own toons are pretty pimped, I could just you know play the game for a month with no real need to make EC anyway.

    Oh also if all of a sudden there was no EC in anyones hands... it wouldn't force people to dump things worth 100s of millions for pennies... it would simply make the trade channel more popular, until the EC repopulated. :)
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    Ok this post is going to be just slightly off topic. It is clear there are a few people posting in this thread who like the OP are a bit space poor.

    So would like to give you a few basic things to think about when you are playing... that will help you not be space poor. Perhaps alone you won't make yourself space rich with these tips, but perhaps space middle class at least.

    1) You do NOT get rich hording... Ride the waves. (yes holding on to things for months is something you do when you have nothing left to invest in.. consider it when you make your 4th or 5th billion). Until then buy low sell high.

    2) You do NOT become rich trying to corner expensive markets. (If you think the best way to get rich is to buy up 10 copies of X or Y trait or Ship because there are only 10 on the market at 10mil each and I can resell for 15 mil and make a killing... think again your going to loose your wad... trust me someone like me is sitting there with 100 of those in the bank and we WILL notice when the price spikes 50% and WE will profit not you... although people that think they can buy up my stuff one a time that I post in the inbetween spaces for hours on end are good for me... don't be that guy, that buys 200 million of my X at a 30% profit to me cause your going to "corner the market" lol)

    3) VOLUME VOLUME VOLUME. In the real world who would you rather be... the company that builds 10 cars a year and sells them for 250k each with a cost of 100k per car. OR would you rather be the company that sells 1,000 cars a year at 25k each at a cost of 10k each ? I know I know your saying right now ya but that is the same amount of profit. You would be right... accept the company making the high volume product is going to be constantly turning things over and not have to invest near as much to get going. (trust me in STO or in any MMO you will make 10x as much moving small things... cause 1 they move more 2 you can generally get more profit % out of them and 3 you can jump in with little to no risk)

    4) The STO economy doesn't revolve around lockboxes, or EC, or Dilithium... it revolves around crafting materials. (See if you go this far you just learned the truth of STO)

    I'll leave it there that should be enough advice to get almost anyone going of they think about what I just said. If it still hasn't sunk in what I am saying here is a better plan for someone with ZERO captial and who wants to make 10-20 million in an hour or so and not just sit at the exchange.

    1) Play the game... do as hard a content as you can... earn some R&D Crafting materials.
    2) Sell those materials
    3) Take the 1-2 million you have made over 30min or so... and start investing in MORE crafting materials.
    4) Think about what I have said so far and consider this scenario.... You see 555 Beta Particles on the exchange at 4,500 EC each so 2,497,500... in between you see another 100 or so spread out over 20 listings between 4500 and 6000... BUY them all up to that point ... and list your 655 (in 2-3 posts) 4,257,500. Give or take you just made a million EC and it will turn over within an hour pretty much any time of day.
    5) Start Crafting holes... tech is easy of course... but people DO buy crafted components... just pay close attention to the costs.

    Now I will head out... remember if your selling things that only cost 1-2k each... if you are selling them in stacks of 999 and you can buy them for just 1k less then they sell, you made a million ec.

    Stop worrying about X or Y rich guy hording this or that trait, or this ship or that book. I admit I have stock on all those things because hey I have been playing 5 years and I ain't a moron sure I grab when its low. Truth is I rarely ever resell that stuff I keep it for me... but I can tell you the Crafting market makes me millions every day... If I want something I make the EC to buy it cause you don't get rich spending your stash all the time. If I decide I need 300 million today for something stupid, I make that in a few hours... and my biggest mover on that will almost always be crafting related.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    lizwei wrote: »
    bioixi wrote: »
    I say we do an economy wipe, delete everyone's EC, save 100k for basic expenses.

    You never figured space rich people have hoards of items?

    Good point, let's also wipe all items not currently equipped on the active ship or player character, including all boxed ships and all unused manuals.

    Why?

    I don't get the motivation to harm/rob others.


    Envy... someone forgot to tell them its a game.

    Its not like real life, the developers hand out EC for free... and items which can be traded for EC. People seem to forget that nothing in the game is in fact real. Its all pretend and its all obtainable if you are willing to log in which is what Cryptic wants.
  • sdkraustsdkraust Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    Or you could sell your giant hordes of items and allow prices to go down.

    It's not like you need tens of billions of EC. Ever. You're just being miserly.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Lucky for me my ship has limited tac seating so I've no room for kemocite. And now that pvp is so pointless there's really no need for me to have the best of the best to stay competitive.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • cassiusdiocassiusdio Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    The exploits HAVE been reported and Cryptic has not fixed them. There are a number of reasons for this, one possibility being that they can't find a simple solution. That is why we 'fat cats' keep these under wraps until Cryptic can fix them. I could create a post right now that would give everyone the simple way to exploit and make billions but if I were to do that the entire game economy would crash in a matter of days...

    We are in fact doing the community a service by keeping said information locked down until the problem is fixed by the DEV's. So I don't understand your hatred except that it's the latest trend in today's world to hate rich people.

    Edited: Was off-topic near the end

    Sorry you could not be more wrong. With these actions you just protect the ones using the exploit.

    If you really had an interest in fixing them you would have posted the exploit on reddit and here and forced a fix.
    It is a sad history but the past has shown that stuff only gets fixed once it goes cataclysmic *looks at japori*

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,875 Arc User
    bobs1111 wrote: »
    And you know what happens now? I'm seeing more and better loot drop much more often. I'm trying harder content with bigger rewards because higher difficulty settings are trivial in terms of added time/challenge/cost. I went from getting 50-100k EC a day to getting 500k to 1M or more, with the prospect of more very attainable. Just from killing faster and being choosy about vendors.

    People area always missing the obvious ways to make money playing as well... they worry about loot drops. Yet never seem to consider how much they make from the Crafting drops.

    One blue crafting box; = (at least)
    10 Whites (2-20k)
    10 Greens (2-20k)
    7 Blue (70-280k)
    3 Purple (10-150k) (these are not random so easy to plan for
    1 Salvage Tech = 380k

    Bottom line is even a bad Blue crafting box is worth 400k to you... and a good one can be worth over a million. (when the greens upgrade to blue and you pull 17 Z or Rub particles)

    These don't take very long to earn... and you can easily earn 3-4 of them a night. Play 2 or 3 toons though 2-3 missions each and you can easily make 7-10 million ec just selling the salvage tech and particles.

    So how ANYONE can complain about ec in this game is beyond me honestly. Yes there are lots of things to spend it on... and if you want something really nice you may need to drop 100+ million... but if you just play casual 3-4 nights a week if your doing harder content you should be able to make that much EC in a month. (not working the market... start doing that just a little and you can easily double that number)

    Not everyone can do a elite? Not everyone can do a advanced even :p

    Did a advanced pug the other day and well...had 2 people doing under 5k dps...heck one of them didn't even break 2k dps. I don't have the kind of friends who pull huge numbers and my fleet has recently had problems so doing a planned elite is like impossible for me...and with the luck I've been having pugging Advanced runs...I can't imagine Elite to be anything but a huge nightmare and constant failures.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Not everyone can do a elite? Not everyone can do a advanced even :p

    This is true. :) However anyone reading what I post with half a bit of intelligence can go to the exchange and notice what those boxes sell for on say a busy weekend. ;)

  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    sdkraust wrote: »
    Or you could sell your giant hordes of items and allow prices to go down.

    It's not like you need tens of billions of EC. Ever. You're just being miserly.

    First you have no idea what I need. lol My 20+ well geared toons need resources.

    Second, I didn't get that horde of stuff by wishing it into existence. I also didn't get it by spending real world $. I got it by SPENDING EC to buy either keys or those items from other people selling them. They got EC for them. I'm not hording the EC am I ? :) Also for the record I use my stash.. I give my stash away... I sell a few... I help friends. I earned them I get to do what I want with em. lol

    If I dumped them on the market for 25% of there value... you wouldn't be very likely to get any of it anyway. Before you would even notice someone like me would see them and be more then happy to take them off my hands at those prices and horde them themselves or turn them around for a profit at the proper price. My friend as much as I have I know exactly how much I don't have the power to effect the market for more then an hour or so tops. :) Anyone that gets good at working the market realizes that fast... even things that don't seem to move fast, in order to really work that market takes TONS of resources and you can't hold it for more then an hour or two tops before others see what your doing and get in on it.

    The only way to work the market with success really... and people might not get this... is to drive prices DOWN DOWN DOWN. Its true... if you don't believe me go and look at Z-Particles right now. I point those out because for the past week they have been under manipulation. I tried a few posts ago to enlighten people in regards to becoming space rich. To get rich having something that is high volume like that sitting 30% undervalue is GOOD. I am also NOT talking about just buying and waiting for the price to go back from 22k to 40k and profit. No no people (including me honesty) are making millions every day right now by keeping them low... which is why someone has posted 20+ stacks of 999 at a lowish price (most people don't want to buy 18x20 million ec worth of Z parts so the price goes down). Keeping that price down buying in numbers when people dump there stashes and moving the price just a few K at a time makes big profits. If you don't get it its ok... most people don't understand how keeping something undervalued can make you money... which is likely why everyone isn't shorting the stack exchange. :)
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    Is the kemocite-laced weapons skill actually any good, and does it share a cd with any other tac skills?
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    Is the kemocite-laced weapons skill actually any good, and does it share a cd with any other tac skills?

    1) Yes. Probably the only worthwhile Tac Ensign ability, particularly if you have two Tac stations. As noted, there are builds (particularly FAW based) where you will see a substantial DPS improvement from this one ability.

    2) No.
  • paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    Is the kemocite-laced weapons skill actually any good, and does it share a cd with any other tac skills?

    1) Yes. Probably the only worthwhile Tac Ensign ability, particularly if you have two Tac stations. As noted, there are builds (particularly FAW based) where you will see a substantial DPS improvement from this one ability.

    2) No.

    You get to squeeze more from Kemo with Torps, 100% proc. Beams not so much but icing. The advantage of kemo is if you are running a cookie cutter full beam build vs other buffs, it is easy to see the damage gain compared to the likes of Focused assault whose DPS contribution is diluted with your beam damage.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Can't blame pvp anymore. Pvp doesn't exist.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    Is the kemocite-laced weapons skill actually any good, and does it share a cd with any other tac skills?

    1) Yes. Probably the only worthwhile Tac Ensign ability, particularly if you have two Tac stations. As noted, there are builds (particularly FAW based) where you will see a substantial DPS improvement from this one ability.

    2) No.

    Thanks for answering.
  • spaceeagle20spaceeagle20 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    tamujiin wrote: »
    Keys are up, Prices on the exchange are up, dil exchange is up, i think cryptic just changed their business model and said TRIBBLE the whiners, lets no longer cater to them.

    Yeah, they changed the business model to "Paradox". Zen, if you buy it for $$$ is pretty much worthless other than for unlocking mediocre zen-store ships with it. Well, 30 bucks per ship is almost decent price. Everything else is overpriced because a lot of stuff still requires way too much grinding, something that a paying customer does not want.

    Then there are lockbox keys and those are way overpriced considering what the chances are to drop a ship or some good piece of gear. You can easily end up paying over 500 bucks for a ship you're really after because there is no official documented numbers what the drop percentage really is on opening lockboxes or R&D boxes when there's a promo running. It has never been released and it never will be because casual lockbox openers like me would probably stop wasting resources on them. And even if it was documented, it's not a guaranteed percentage because we've seen how good Cryptic is with calculating percentage on everything in game.

    You can't buy XP boxes that would speed up the progress, level you up faster, you can't buy specialization points. You can buy are some boosters that are useless in the new xp-frenzy model and they are overpriced, they are worth 10 times less than they are listed. They had meaning pre-DR now they are useless.

    People who want to spend money don't want to grind. If I give you 120 dollars on a micro transaction for a ship bundle, i don't want broken ships that i have to fix by playing 4 or more hours per ship per character. This is why paying people are leaving the game, plus all the bugs and stuff that is annoying but can be tolerated. (btw. dyson ground battlezone and zaria still crash after 6 fixes and now 5 months running bug). If I pay, i don't want to spend time grinding to make it work. It's like buying an overpriced car then having to spend a month to assemble it at home. What kind of reasoning is this? Maybe this is reasonable, maybe i'm stupid or lazy, maybe customers should be forced to assemble the stuff they buy. I don't know. Am I?

    At the current exchange rate of dilithium to zen player earns about $1.05 per hour of play. Good economic model for a game that wants real money would be to make it worth my while to shave off each hour of gameplay by half or even quarter of that amount. Then maybe they'd get more dollars and less hours spent on their products. And the suits care about dollars more than hours, at least they used to.

    And it's suits who decide how long the game keeps running, not us crying here or these overworked devs.

    In other words, it is convenient either to spend a lot of money or not to spend a dime at all.
    I agree with you but consider that they care a lot also about metrics.
    P58WJe7.jpg


  • tacticalrooktacticalrook Member Posts: 810 Arc User
    Trying to corner a market in sto is a pretty good way to turn a small fortune into a smaller fortune.

    For nearly every item in sto, there is no limit to its supply, and no way of knowing whether the market contains a hidden supply.

    People end up throwing good money after bad trying to defend a higher market price fix. In the long run it benefits people who sell to the market cornerer, and hurts him.

    People forget that the market price is set by supply and demand - the cost of creating new items, be it from crafting or opening lock boxes, vs the demand for the item at a given price point.

    If you try to defend a market price fix that is significantly higher than the cost to produce an item, producers will happily sell it to you, or undercut you to sell it to others. Forever, as long as it costs less to make than what you're willing to pay to defend your price fix.

    When you run out of money, they'll keep making the thing until it stops being super profitable to do. And you end up stuck with a lot of an item that you have to sell at a loss if you want to sell at all. This loss is your wealth being transferred to people who sold their items at the higher price you paid to defend.

    That's one half of the supply problem, the unlimited supply part, the other is the hidden supply part. One part of having a diverse space portfolio is having a decent basket of valuable and easily sold stuff. One reason for this is that it allows you to profit at the expense of market fixers. They pay their money to drive up the price of some item, you get to sell yours at the higher price.

    Looking on the exchange and seeing "wow there are only four of these things listed at realistic prices, if I bought all 4, I could hike up the price and relist them," is a mistake. There may only be 4 on the exchange, but there may also be another ten or twenty sitting in people's banks. And of course, if the price gets too high vs the cost of production, people will keep producing the thing until it balances out.

    The prices of items are mainly changed by things out of the players control in the game. A new ship comes out that affects demand for an old ship, a promo makes it better to buy promo packs and sell for ec than to buy keys, a new box comes out with more generous loot, so on and so forth.

    People see big numbers and lose their minds. If you take the time to figure out the cost of producing most expensive items, it becomes clear that without those big prices, nobody would bother doing it. People don't set out to lose money on purpose.
    This is by far the most insightful and practical post I've seen made on the forums about STO's economy in recent memory. These are absolutely critical concepts for poorer folks, who are trying to become space rich, to understand and leverage. I should know, I'm poor.
    /channel_join grind
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