A "self defense force" is still a military force, lets not argue semantics here
If you take the example of the japanese self-defense force, it is indeed a military force, but lacking three of the main assets of a full military force : aircraft carriers, nuclear weapons and force-projection airplanes / ships, since she is forbidden by treaty to build them. So in the ST universe, a self-defense force could suffer the same kind of restrictions, like a limitation of ship mass, class (no battlecruisers, no escorts, and so on) or weaponry.
I don't know if they have restriction about what they can or cannot build, but as far as we know the Cardassian Union has battleships (Keldon Class), still, I think restrictions were lifted after the democratization and their alliance with the Federation in the 2390s.
A "self defense force" is still a military force, lets not argue semantics here
If you take the example of the japanese self-defense force, it is indeed a military force, but lacking three of the main assets of a full military force : aircraft carriers, nuclear weapons and force-projection airplanes / ships, since she is forbidden by treaty to build them. So in the ST universe, a self-defense force could suffer the same kind of restrictions, like a limitation of ship mass, class (no battlecruisers, no escorts, and so on) or weaponry.
Considering most self-defined militaries lack aircraft carriers and nuclear weapons, I'm not sure it's the best comparison.
Everybody who keeps claiming that Contagion still happened even after Butterfly negated the event needs to explain how deleting the Borg transwarp hub restored that event, using lore and evidence presented in-game and not conjecture.
Everybody who keeps claiming that Contagion still happened even after Butterfly negated the event needs to explain how deleting the Borg transwarp hub restored that event, using lore and evidence presented in-game and not conjecture.
I'm waiting..
Why would it have not happened after the Borg's invasion and assimilation of Romulus was erased from history? If you're wanting a detailed explanation of why it was reverted, then give an equally detailed explanation of why it shouldn't have been reverted with the erasure of the Hub that allowed the Borg easy access to Romulus 20 years before.
I can understand events not happening they way we remember them happening if the Borg had invaded 20 years before. If that had never happened, I don't see why most event wouldn't have unfolded in much the same way that we remembered them.
However, my big problem with the whole Krenim time alteration dealie, is the fact that the Temporal shield should have protected the ship from the shockwave of the Initial temporal incursion. They shouldn't have needed to keep those temporal shields up for all time in perpetuity though. I don't recall that having needed to be done in the Voyager (T.V.) episodes.
Everybody who keeps claiming that Contagion still happened even after Butterfly negated the event needs to explain how deleting the Borg transwarp hub restored that event, using lore and evidence presented in-game and not conjecture.
I'm waiting..
Why would it have not happened after the Borg's invasion and assimilation of Romulus was erased from history? If you're wanting a detailed explanation of why it was reverted, then give an equally detailed explanation of why it shouldn't have been reverted with the erasure of the Hub that allowed the Borg easy access to Romulus 20 years before.
I can understand events not happening they way we remember them happening if the Borg had invaded 20 years before. If that had never happened, I don't see why most event wouldn't have unfolded in much the same way that we remembered them.
However, my big problem with the whole Krenim time alteration dealie, is the fact that the Temporal shield should have protected the ship from the shockwave of the Initial temporal incursion. They shouldn't have needed to keep those temporal shields up for all time in perpetuity though. I don't recall that having needed to be done in the Voyager (T.V.) episodes.
You're clearly not thinking of how the Borg invasion was erased.
Again, the Borg occupation of Romulus happens because preventing the Yamato from finding Iconia results in [SCENE MISSING] which enables the Borg to invade Romulan space.
The solution is to erase the Borg transwarp hub to prevent the more powerful Borg from reaching Romulus.
This results in the Iconians invading again due to [SCENE MISSING].
Aside from the fact that how erasing the transwarp hub makes things near to how they were never being explained because Butterfly is utter garbage written by someone who is if not Satan himself then someone who shares his zip code, there is no possible way that limiting the Borg's movements would cause the Yamato to find Iconia.
You can be extremely generous to the narrative and work out a convoluted way in which the Iconians took notice of us through other means because the Borg's transwarp abilities were lessened... somehow. But there is absolutely no connection you can make with the Yamato and the Borg. None. Given that the event that caused the Yamato to go to Iconia was still erased because that's how the Krenim weapon works, you can't undo it's erasures ever, the only way you can is by erasing the weapon itself), Contagion still never happened.
Incidentally, Midnight establishing that T'Ket has a 200,000 year old rage boner for the Romulans rather contradicts the entire premise of Butterfly to begin with.
If that abortion of an episode has been struck from the STO narrative, I'd find that acceptable.
Though given this storyline, I now question why the Iconians murdered the Preservers when they were neutral.
Yeah the whole preserver thing makes no sense now with this ending. As the Iconians had no beef with them, and just had a beef with the rest of us in the Alpha.
You can be extremely generous to the narrative and work out a convoluted way in which the Iconians took notice of us through other means because the Borg's transwarp abilities were lessened... somehow. But there is absolutely no connection you can make with the Yamato and the Borg. None. Given that the event that caused the Yamato to go to Iconia was still erased because that's how the Krenim weapon works, you can't undo it's erasures ever, the only way you can is by erasing the weapon itself), Contagion still never happened.
You can't undo its erasures, but you can counteract indirect results of erasures (which avoiding Contagion was) with further erasures, as happened more than once in Year of Hell. That being said, you are perfectly right that handwaves has to be resorted to... possibly it was a 'the simplest, smoothest way to ensure that transwarp conduit is never built was by having the Yamato find Iconia', but that's still a big stretch.
I'm waiting on why anything in Butterfly eliminates the Contagion episode?
Because that was the entire point of the first erasure: making Contagion not happen. The problem is that the connection between the second erasure and making Contagion happen again is rather uncertain.
Yeah the whole preserver thing makes no sense now with this ending. As the Iconians had no beef with them, and just had a beef with the rest of us in the Alpha.
I'm still pondering the Alpha part myself, given T'ket wanted revenge specifically on the Romulans. What was the logic for them to start a galactic war? Its like a neighbor taking your pet and you taking it out on everyone in town.
Yeah the whole preserver thing makes no sense now with this ending. As the Iconians had no beef with them, and just had a beef with the rest of us in the Alpha.
I'm still pondering the Alpha part myself, given T'ket wanted revenge specifically on the Romulans. What was the logic for them to start a galactic war? Its like a neighbor taking your pet and you taking it out on everyone in town.
Particularly bizarre considering that Romulans didn't exist yet, so she couldn't have known to target that species specifically, and not say....all vulcanoids. (which considering the scattershot manner in which the Iconian arc has painted their revenge, would have been more in character).
Makes even less sense considering the away team+ player + Klingon npc that may be helping them. One Romulan (apparently) goes beserk and guns down three Iconians? exterminate their species. Five other Romulans help them escape? won't even recognize your species all that time they are plotting the extermination of your species. But stand next to them while holding their magic ball? Instantly recognized, war is called off. But they don't recognize Sela specifically even when they are putting her on the throne, or when they have her in custody of the Elachii for an extended period of time.
Similarly weird if you take away teams full of other species-particularly Klingons considering the NPC hanger-on is also Klingon. Apparently the crowd of Klingons standing around them, fighting off their enemies, rescuing them from certain death, jumping in front of Sela's disruptor, etc-wasn't worthy of remembrance. I guess Iconians have really selective memory.
Other things that bug me...
-Are we just going to gloss over that they screwed over the dewans right after the scene where they escape? They not only hung them out to dry, but made them extinct by sabotaging the gateway after they used it. So they went from Federation-copy to 'kill em all' in a few minutes...do we really want to be friends with these people?
-What happened to the Bluegills/Tal Shiar/Elachii/Feklhri etc? The only servitor faction we ever completely defeat is the Vaudwaar...so where are the rest of the servitors? I would expect that with the Iconians finally committing their own forces, they wouldn't shy away from utilizing the rest of their servitors, at least as cannon fodder, if nothing else...so where were they? Why did the Solonae never really show up at all? I mean, I had figured the Dyson carrier was made for a purpose...
Just to chuck some ideas out there, perhaps the changes the Iconians made to themselves and their Herald pets is responsible for some of their memory issues? To go from physical being to energy being couldn't have been straightforward, and add to that a few millennia of festering hate it's perhaps understandable they'd be genocidal maniacs by the time they began plotting the universe's downfall.
As far as the Dewans, I thought the Iconians moved on and then much later the Dewans tried to reactivate the Gate and it wrecked their world.
Maybe the Dewans just screwed up the reactivation? The sabotage of the gateway seemed to have happened a lot later. It was mentioned I think in Sphere of Influence that the Iconians/Solenae manipulated A'dranna into rigging the gate?
Both. The Hur'q apparently work for the Iconians. Not originally, of course-one of those retcons that Cryptic slips in from time to time without telling anybody, like when they retconned the Romulan military into consisting entirely of the Tal Shiar- replacing references to the former with references to the latter in older episodes. Or how the reason for the New Romulus gate disaster that almost wiped out the Republic's new homeworld was changed from 'incompetence' to 'iconian sabotage'
I guess irresponsible genetic alteration could conceivably be responsible for their bizarre memory inconsistencies and mood swings. But I don't think 'The Iconians are mentally damaged because they were incompetent scientists' isn't exactly something I'd personally choose as an explanation to the central conflict we have had in Star Trek Online for a longer period than any Trek show has lasted. I really hope 'all this horrible stuff happened because everyone is incompetent, insane and/or an idiot' is not the explanation Cryptic was going for, but it kinda comes across as that.
Regarding the transwarp gate...I have a pet theory about that. I can't prove it, and if true it should have been explained in the episode, but my personal theory is that the Borg actually didn't build that first transwarp gate over Romulus: Hakeev, in his incredible arrogance, did. And in this timeline where his attention was not divided by also having Iconian technology to mess with and not just Borg, his experiments on Borg tech went way further than they did in the prime timeline. In my theory, he is the one who drew the Borg to Romulus when his big transwarp experiment failed and the Borg came to claim the gate he'd oh so nicely built for them. Under this theory, erasing the gate means erasing all conditions leading to Hakeev doing that particular stupid experiment. Which meant restoring the discovery of Iconia to distract him from ever doing that.
Convoluted? Yes. Not properly explained by the episode even if true? Yes. But that is my personal theory.
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I think ultimately, the name of the episode alluded to the Butterfly Effect for a reason - a single change can have great, unpredictable ripple effects. And so we can try to make guesses why things worked out the way they did, but they'd only be guesses. I think Chaos Theory neither expects us to be able to predict that a particularly butterfly will cause a Hurricane on the other side of the world, not be able to trace back which butterfly on the other side of the world caused a particular hurricane.
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Everybody who keeps claiming that Contagion still happened even after Butterfly negated the event needs to explain how deleting the Borg transwarp hub restored that event, using lore and evidence presented in-game and not conjecture.
I'm waiting..
In the initial incursion - Nog took out the asteroid; leading to the Borg assimilation of Romulus, etc. and CHANGING much of the Prime Universe's history.
^^^
To fix this Nog did another 'fast and loose' (IE no long simulations to predict the outcome, more just a hope) incursion and erased a Transwarp Hub.
^^^
This 'reset' the Prime Universe timeline to the point where the one race was wiped out (well actually I believe assimilated by the Borg; because they failed to develop a defense technology they had in the original unaltered timeline); and also reset the timeline to the point Nog's first incursion (removing the Asteroid) - NEVER HAPPENED. That's why in 'Butterfly' you're suddenly just back at the Krenim Research Lab - and Nog's telling you how he was on the ship's Bridge, noticed a power drain, etc. - and then talks about what they found in the protected computer core showing they attempted two incursions, the second to reverse unexpected changes from the first.
Thus, again (per the episode) the ONLY previous thing not fully restored was the one race's attempt to develop a defense against the Borg (which they were successful at in the original unaltered timeline; but failed in the timeline created when Nog eliminated the Transwarp Hub.)
Thus the events of 'Contagion' et al did all still happen after Nog's reversal of his first incursion, by his elimination of that Borg Transwarp Hub.
The events in the episode 'Butterfly' (in the Prime Universe) ultimately became (after Nog's second incursion):
- You show up to assist in testing alternate timeline scenarios in preparation for a use of the weapon.
- Nog tells you that something happened and it appears the weapon was used twice; and they're looking into what the info in the protected core tells them about said uses of the weapon.
- You leave.
(Your character doesn't even realize that the race that was assimilated/destroyed ever existed. But all previous events depicted in the TV series TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT still happened )
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I think what confuses most people here is how deleting the transwarp gate made the previously deleted asteroid reappear (since that one is required for Contagion to happen).
I think what confuses most people here is how deleting the transwarp gate made the previously deleted asteroid reappear (since that one is required for Contagion to happen).
Which is part of how I came up with the idea that Hakeev did an idiot experiment and built the gate himself from stuff he scrounged off the Borg, and that deleting said experiment required a near reset of all conditions that would lead him to come up with that boneheaded idea in the first place. Unlike deleting living people, as Annorax did, the deletion of an inanimate object and thus even conceiving of building that object required the reset of other conditions.
Again just a pet theory and if true it should have been explained, but that is how I reconcile it.
(Oh, and my idea also conveniently explains Hakeev getting that "special status" with the Borg, as the Queen's do-over on the whole Locutus thing--do-over implied by the name "Secundus.")
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I think what confuses most people here is how deleting the transwarp gate made the previously deleted asteroid reappear (since that one is required for Contagion to happen).
No, the events of Contagion only require the Yamato to find Iconia. It doesn't specificy what way it does find it. (And I am not sure it's canonical that the Yamato finds Iconia due to an old comet/asteroid.)
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the Nopada gateway? still usable by us? or given back to the iconians? i don't even remember why there is a gateway on Nopada and why the alliance (before uneasy allies) had not taken control of this gateway.
Everybody who keeps claiming that Contagion still happened even after Butterfly negated the event needs to explain how deleting the Borg transwarp hub restored that event, using lore and evidence presented in-game and not conjecture.
I'm waiting..
In the initial incursion - Nog took out the asteroid; leading to the Borg assimilation of Romulus, etc. and CHANGING much of the Prime Universe's history.
^^^
To fix this Nog did another 'fast and loose' (IE no long simulations to predict the outcome, more just a hope) incursion and erased a Transwarp Hub.
^^^
This 'reset' the Prime Universe timeline to the point where the one race was wiped out (well actually I believe assimilated by the Borg; because they failed to develop a defense technology they had in the original unaltered timeline); and also reset the timeline to the point Nog's first incursion (removing the Asteroid) - NEVER HAPPENED. That's why in 'Butterfly' you're suddenly just back at the Krenim Research Lab - and Nog's telling you how he was on the ship's Bridge, noticed a power drain, etc. - and then talks about what they found in the protected computer core showing they attempted two incursions, the second to reverse unexpected changes from the first.
Thus, again (per the episode) the ONLY previous thing not fully restored was the one race's attempt to develop a defense against the Borg (which they were successful at in the original unaltered timeline; but failed in the timeline created when Nog eliminated the Transwarp Hub.)
Thus the events of 'Contagion' et al did all still happen after Nog's reversal of his first incursion, by his elimination of that Borg Transwarp Hub.
The events in the episode 'Butterfly' (in the Prime Universe) ultimately became (after Nog's second incursion):
- You show up to assist in testing alternate timeline scenarios in preparation for a use of the weapon.
- Nog tells you that something happened and it appears the weapon was used twice; and they're looking into what the info in the protected core tells them about said uses of the weapon.
- You leave.
(Your character doesn't even realize that the race that was assimilated/destroyed ever existed. But all previous events depicted in the TV series TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT still happened )
Sorry, that is not only full of conjecture, it's also completely impossible in the canon.
As I've said, the only way to erase a Krenim timeship incursion is to erase the timeship, and if somehow this rule could be violated (it bloody can't), then nothing would've changed, including Noye's wife.
You can't have it both ways.
Save you questions, next season we'll find that the Iconians went back and erased their fingerprints in this timeline. We'll be like "Iconians, who ?" while they sit back in their isolation and thank us for saving their bacon.
Everybody who keeps claiming that Contagion still happened even after Butterfly negated the event needs to explain how deleting the Borg transwarp hub restored that event, using lore and evidence presented in-game and not conjecture.
I'm waiting..
In the initial incursion - Nog took out the asteroid; leading to the Borg assimilation of Romulus, etc. and CHANGING much of the Prime Universe's history.
^^^
To fix this Nog did another 'fast and loose' (IE no long simulations to predict the outcome, more just a hope) incursion and erased a Transwarp Hub.
^^^
This 'reset' the Prime Universe timeline to the point where the one race was wiped out (well actually I believe assimilated by the Borg; because they failed to develop a defense technology they had in the original unaltered timeline); and also reset the timeline to the point Nog's first incursion (removing the Asteroid) - NEVER HAPPENED. That's why in 'Butterfly' you're suddenly just back at the Krenim Research Lab - and Nog's telling you how he was on the ship's Bridge, noticed a power drain, etc. - and then talks about what they found in the protected computer core showing they attempted two incursions, the second to reverse unexpected changes from the first.
Thus, again (per the episode) the ONLY previous thing not fully restored was the one race's attempt to develop a defense against the Borg (which they were successful at in the original unaltered timeline; but failed in the timeline created when Nog eliminated the Transwarp Hub.)
Thus the events of 'Contagion' et al did all still happen after Nog's reversal of his first incursion, by his elimination of that Borg Transwarp Hub.
The events in the episode 'Butterfly' (in the Prime Universe) ultimately became (after Nog's second incursion):
- You show up to assist in testing alternate timeline scenarios in preparation for a use of the weapon.
- Nog tells you that something happened and it appears the weapon was used twice; and they're looking into what the info in the protected core tells them about said uses of the weapon.
- You leave.
(Your character doesn't even realize that the race that was assimilated/destroyed ever existed. But all previous events depicted in the TV series TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT still happened )
Sorry, that is not only full of conjecture, it's also completely impossible in the canon.
As I've said, the only way to erase a Krenim timeship incursion is to erase the timeship, and if somehow this rule could be violated (it bloody can't), then nothing would've changed, including Noye's wife.
You can't have it both ways.
Not quite true, the original timeship had temporal phase shielding, meaning that it existed outside of time and space and as such, the only way to reverse the effects it had was through turning it's weapon on itself, this also had the added bonus of rendering the timeship undetectable by ships in normal space, at least until Harry and Tom disabled the shielding.
The one we use only has Temporal shields, preventing our integration into the new timeline but it still existed in normal spacetime, hence why it was vunerable to Borg attack, it and it's effects on the timeline can be affected by another shot from the weapon regardless of the target.
You know, erasing the Krenim Time ship from the timeline would solve all issues.
No time ship -> no Other -> no surviving Iconians -> no Iconian War -> no Hobus -> Romulus restored without Borg
You know, erasing the Krenim Time ship from the timeline would solve all issues.
No time ship -> no Other -> no surviving Iconians -> no Iconian War -> no Hobus -> Romulus restored without Borg
Particularly bizarre considering that Romulans didn't exist yet, so she couldn't have known to target that species specifically, and not say....all vulcanoids. (which considering the scattershot manner in which the Iconian arc has painted their revenge, would have been more in character).
Makes even less sense considering the away team+ player + Klingon npc that may be helping them. One Romulan (apparently) goes beserk and guns down three Iconians? exterminate their species. Five other Romulans help them escape? won't even recognize your species all that time they are plotting the extermination of your species. But stand next to them while holding their magic ball? Instantly recognized, war is called off. But they don't recognize Sela specifically even when they are putting her on the throne, or when they have her in custody of the Elachii for an extended period of time.
Similarly weird if you take away teams full of other species-particularly Klingons considering the NPC hanger-on is also Klingon. Apparently the crowd of Klingons standing around them, fighting off their enemies, rescuing them from certain death, jumping in front of Sela's disruptor, etc-wasn't worthy of remembrance. I guess Iconians have really selective memory.
Other things that bug me...
-Are we just going to gloss over that they screwed over the dewans right after the scene where they escape? They not only hung them out to dry, but made them extinct by sabotaging the gateway after they used it. So they went from Federation-copy to 'kill em all' in a few minutes...do we really want to be friends with these people?
-What happened to the Bluegills/Tal Shiar/Elachii/Feklhri etc? The only servitor faction we ever completely defeat is the Vaudwaar...so where are the rest of the servitors? I would expect that with the Iconians finally committing their own forces, they wouldn't shy away from utilizing the rest of their servitors, at least as cannon fodder, if nothing else...so where were they? Why did the Solonae never really show up at all? I mean, I had figured the Dyson carrier was made for a purpose...
I agree. And frankly this ending is causing a butterfly effect on it's own, where more and more questions are asked than actually being resolved.
The Murder of the Preservers
Instigating War in the Delta Quadrant (none of them even knew about the Romulans until the Solonae Sphere was discovered).
Aiding the Romulans in order to . . . kill the Romulans? wha?
Instigating war with the Federation by everyone it associated with and.....the Romulans were the focus of the revenge?? wha?
The Iconians remember Sela and the Romulans for being the cause, but somehow knew they had to wait 200,000 years? And merely forget Kagren and you saving them in the first place?
The number they did on the Dewans when they were loyal subjects?
In all honestly, it feels like Cryptic didn't even bother reviewing their own content when making these Iconian episodes. Midnight is the new Divide et Imperia.
Why would long dead Iconians suddenly make the Borg stronger?
... Really? Okay, let's do this.
Hhakhifv (Hakeev for the Rihan-deprived) is the one who was tinkering around with Borg tech, and it didn't start with STO, either. Romulans were messing with Borg tech before he came on the scene. But he's the incompetent twit who incompetently managed to bring Borg to Romulus, Iconians or no Iconians. Voilà!
Here's another question:
Why in the seven shades of billabong did the Krenim timeship need to go to Earth to open the portal?
Isn't that the worst plan ever? Why not just stay nice and safe at Kyana where the Iconians can't go and open it there?
Comments
I don't know if they have restriction about what they can or cannot build, but as far as we know the Cardassian Union has battleships (Keldon Class), still, I think restrictions were lifted after the democratization and their alliance with the Federation in the 2390s.
I'm waiting..
I can understand events not happening they way we remember them happening if the Borg had invaded 20 years before. If that had never happened, I don't see why most event wouldn't have unfolded in much the same way that we remembered them.
However, my big problem with the whole Krenim time alteration dealie, is the fact that the Temporal shield should have protected the ship from the shockwave of the Initial temporal incursion. They shouldn't have needed to keep those temporal shields up for all time in perpetuity though. I don't recall that having needed to be done in the Voyager (T.V.) episodes.
You're clearly not thinking of how the Borg invasion was erased.
Again, the Borg occupation of Romulus happens because preventing the Yamato from finding Iconia results in [SCENE MISSING] which enables the Borg to invade Romulan space.
The solution is to erase the Borg transwarp hub to prevent the more powerful Borg from reaching Romulus.
This results in the Iconians invading again due to [SCENE MISSING].
Aside from the fact that how erasing the transwarp hub makes things near to how they were never being explained because Butterfly is utter garbage written by someone who is if not Satan himself then someone who shares his zip code, there is no possible way that limiting the Borg's movements would cause the Yamato to find Iconia.
You can be extremely generous to the narrative and work out a convoluted way in which the Iconians took notice of us through other means because the Borg's transwarp abilities were lessened... somehow. But there is absolutely no connection you can make with the Yamato and the Borg. None. Given that the event that caused the Yamato to go to Iconia was still erased because that's how the Krenim weapon works, you can't undo it's erasures ever, the only way you can is by erasing the weapon itself), Contagion still never happened.
Incidentally, Midnight establishing that T'Ket has a 200,000 year old rage boner for the Romulans rather contradicts the entire premise of Butterfly to begin with.
If that abortion of an episode has been struck from the STO narrative, I'd find that acceptable.
Yeah the whole preserver thing makes no sense now with this ending. As the Iconians had no beef with them, and just had a beef with the rest of us in the Alpha.
I'm waiting on why anything in Butterfly eliminates the Contagion episode permanently? Given the next incursion changes everything all over.
I'm still pondering the Alpha part myself, given T'ket wanted revenge specifically on the Romulans. What was the logic for them to start a galactic war? Its like a neighbor taking your pet and you taking it out on everyone in town.
Particularly bizarre considering that Romulans didn't exist yet, so she couldn't have known to target that species specifically, and not say....all vulcanoids. (which considering the scattershot manner in which the Iconian arc has painted their revenge, would have been more in character).
Makes even less sense considering the away team+ player + Klingon npc that may be helping them. One Romulan (apparently) goes beserk and guns down three Iconians? exterminate their species. Five other Romulans help them escape? won't even recognize your species all that time they are plotting the extermination of your species. But stand next to them while holding their magic ball? Instantly recognized, war is called off. But they don't recognize Sela specifically even when they are putting her on the throne, or when they have her in custody of the Elachii for an extended period of time.
Similarly weird if you take away teams full of other species-particularly Klingons considering the NPC hanger-on is also Klingon. Apparently the crowd of Klingons standing around them, fighting off their enemies, rescuing them from certain death, jumping in front of Sela's disruptor, etc-wasn't worthy of remembrance. I guess Iconians have really selective memory.
Other things that bug me...
-Are we just going to gloss over that they screwed over the dewans right after the scene where they escape? They not only hung them out to dry, but made them extinct by sabotaging the gateway after they used it. So they went from Federation-copy to 'kill em all' in a few minutes...do we really want to be friends with these people?
-What happened to the Bluegills/Tal Shiar/Elachii/Feklhri etc? The only servitor faction we ever completely defeat is the Vaudwaar...so where are the rest of the servitors? I would expect that with the Iconians finally committing their own forces, they wouldn't shy away from utilizing the rest of their servitors, at least as cannon fodder, if nothing else...so where were they? Why did the Solonae never really show up at all? I mean, I had figured the Dyson carrier was made for a purpose...
Iconians were responsible for the Feklhri? I thought Hur'q were the primary suspects?
Maybe the Dewans just screwed up the reactivation? The sabotage of the gateway seemed to have happened a lot later. It was mentioned I think in Sphere of Influence that the Iconians/Solenae manipulated A'dranna into rigging the gate?
I guess irresponsible genetic alteration could conceivably be responsible for their bizarre memory inconsistencies and mood swings. But I don't think 'The Iconians are mentally damaged because they were incompetent scientists' isn't exactly something I'd personally choose as an explanation to the central conflict we have had in Star Trek Online for a longer period than any Trek show has lasted. I really hope 'all this horrible stuff happened because everyone is incompetent, insane and/or an idiot' is not the explanation Cryptic was going for, but it kinda comes across as that.
Convoluted? Yes. Not properly explained by the episode even if true? Yes. But that is my personal theory.
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In the initial incursion - Nog took out the asteroid; leading to the Borg assimilation of Romulus, etc. and CHANGING much of the Prime Universe's history.
^^^
To fix this Nog did another 'fast and loose' (IE no long simulations to predict the outcome, more just a hope) incursion and erased a Transwarp Hub.
^^^
This 'reset' the Prime Universe timeline to the point where the one race was wiped out (well actually I believe assimilated by the Borg; because they failed to develop a defense technology they had in the original unaltered timeline); and also reset the timeline to the point Nog's first incursion (removing the Asteroid) - NEVER HAPPENED. That's why in 'Butterfly' you're suddenly just back at the Krenim Research Lab - and Nog's telling you how he was on the ship's Bridge, noticed a power drain, etc. - and then talks about what they found in the protected computer core showing they attempted two incursions, the second to reverse unexpected changes from the first.
Thus, again (per the episode) the ONLY previous thing not fully restored was the one race's attempt to develop a defense against the Borg (which they were successful at in the original unaltered timeline; but failed in the timeline created when Nog eliminated the Transwarp Hub.)
Thus the events of 'Contagion' et al did all still happen after Nog's reversal of his first incursion, by his elimination of that Borg Transwarp Hub.
The events in the episode 'Butterfly' (in the Prime Universe) ultimately became (after Nog's second incursion):
- You show up to assist in testing alternate timeline scenarios in preparation for a use of the weapon.
- Nog tells you that something happened and it appears the weapon was used twice; and they're looking into what the info in the protected core tells them about said uses of the weapon.
- You leave.
(Your character doesn't even realize that the race that was assimilated/destroyed ever existed. But all previous events depicted in the TV series TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT still happened
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Which is part of how I came up with the idea that Hakeev did an idiot experiment and built the gate himself from stuff he scrounged off the Borg, and that deleting said experiment required a near reset of all conditions that would lead him to come up with that boneheaded idea in the first place. Unlike deleting living people, as Annorax did, the deletion of an inanimate object and thus even conceiving of building that object required the reset of other conditions.
Again just a pet theory and if true it should have been explained, but that is how I reconcile it.
(Oh, and my idea also conveniently explains Hakeev getting that "special status" with the Borg, as the Queen's do-over on the whole Locutus thing--do-over implied by the name "Secundus.")
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Sorry, that is not only full of conjecture, it's also completely impossible in the canon.
As I've said, the only way to erase a Krenim timeship incursion is to erase the timeship, and if somehow this rule could be violated (it bloody can't), then nothing would've changed, including Noye's wife.
You can't have it both ways.
STO reboot
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Not quite true, the original timeship had temporal phase shielding, meaning that it existed outside of time and space and as such, the only way to reverse the effects it had was through turning it's weapon on itself, this also had the added bonus of rendering the timeship undetectable by ships in normal space, at least until Harry and Tom disabled the shielding.
The one we use only has Temporal shields, preventing our integration into the new timeline but it still existed in normal spacetime, hence why it was vunerable to Borg attack, it and it's effects on the timeline can be affected by another shot from the weapon regardless of the target.
No time ship -> no Other -> no surviving Iconians -> no Iconian War -> no Hobus -> Romulus restored without Borg
It would be Romulus with Borg in that case.
I agree. And frankly this ending is causing a butterfly effect on it's own, where more and more questions are asked than actually being resolved.
The Murder of the Preservers
Instigating War in the Delta Quadrant (none of them even knew about the Romulans until the Solonae Sphere was discovered).
Aiding the Romulans in order to . . . kill the Romulans? wha?
Instigating war with the Federation by everyone it associated with and.....the Romulans were the focus of the revenge?? wha?
The Iconians remember Sela and the Romulans for being the cause, but somehow knew they had to wait 200,000 years? And merely forget Kagren and you saving them in the first place?
The number they did on the Dewans when they were loyal subjects?
In all honestly, it feels like Cryptic didn't even bother reviewing their own content when making these Iconian episodes. Midnight is the new Divide et Imperia.
... Really? Okay, let's do this.
Hhakhifv (Hakeev for the Rihan-deprived) is the one who was tinkering around with Borg tech, and it didn't start with STO, either. Romulans were messing with Borg tech before he came on the scene. But he's the incompetent twit who incompetently managed to bring Borg to Romulus, Iconians or no Iconians. Voilà!
Why in the seven shades of billabong did the Krenim timeship need to go to Earth to open the portal?
Isn't that the worst plan ever? Why not just stay nice and safe at Kyana where the Iconians can't go and open it there?