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The Butterfly (Dis)continuity
gulberat
Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
This is something I've speculated about once before, and I was wondering what you guys thought about it...
One of the criticisms (among many) that I've heard about Butterfly has been the apparent illogic in seeming to have progressed through the game and only then create the Sphere Builders. As in, we were from a timeline where the Temporal Cold War never happened yet somehow the Sphere Builders and all of that was canon. It appears to be a nonsensical contradiction. This perception is increased by the discussion in the ending scene suggesting that we are now in an alternate timeline and that nothing else we've done before that point is a part of the new timeline.
But what if instead, the canon, "Prime Universe" version of our toon did NOT fire the weapon--and we learned not to do it because of what an alternate version of us...one for whom the Temporal Cold War was never a reality and thus was more cavalier about time travel than we are...made the mistake of encouraging his/her team to fire the weapon? This universe may have looked a good bit like ours, and we also provoked the Iconians in that universe. But it's not ours.
Under this theory, the prime timeline for our character is NOT one in which we actually fired the weapon. Our timeline--the real timeline--is one with a more careful Department of Temporal Investigations and more respect for the Temporal Prime Directive, and even though we were getting desperate enough to build the Krenim ship, we hesitated and protested just long enough for us to get the temporal core that proved what a disaster the attempt to use the weapon would be.
Unlike Divide et Impera, at least, if you follow this theory, you can assume that a (literally) more ignorant version of your character fired the weapon--one who did not have as good of an understanding of the severity of time travel and whose Starfleet was likely less bothered by it too (because no TCW in that universe). But the true version of your character, the one who is aware of the Temporal Cold War and has been all along--the version you've loved playing in every other mission--never did it, and protested long enough to save his/her team from firing.
It still isn't a perfect solution by any means, but the idea that what we saw was a timeline sans TCW with a more cavalier attitude to temporal manipulation than your canon toon has, rather than being the prime timeline, does help me understand why my character acted in a way that as we know from the canon shown in all five series, was unbelievably rash. Our alternate version is guilty, yes. But it's NOT us and we are not responsible for his/her actions. YOU are the one who stalled, stonewalled, and protested long enough to stop it.
One of the criticisms (among many) that I've heard about Butterfly has been the apparent illogic in seeming to have progressed through the game and only then create the Sphere Builders. As in, we were from a timeline where the Temporal Cold War never happened yet somehow the Sphere Builders and all of that was canon. It appears to be a nonsensical contradiction. This perception is increased by the discussion in the ending scene suggesting that we are now in an alternate timeline and that nothing else we've done before that point is a part of the new timeline.
But what if instead, the canon, "Prime Universe" version of our toon did NOT fire the weapon--and we learned not to do it because of what an alternate version of us...one for whom the Temporal Cold War was never a reality and thus was more cavalier about time travel than we are...made the mistake of encouraging his/her team to fire the weapon? This universe may have looked a good bit like ours, and we also provoked the Iconians in that universe. But it's not ours.
Under this theory, the prime timeline for our character is NOT one in which we actually fired the weapon. Our timeline--the real timeline--is one with a more careful Department of Temporal Investigations and more respect for the Temporal Prime Directive, and even though we were getting desperate enough to build the Krenim ship, we hesitated and protested just long enough for us to get the temporal core that proved what a disaster the attempt to use the weapon would be.
Unlike Divide et Impera, at least, if you follow this theory, you can assume that a (literally) more ignorant version of your character fired the weapon--one who did not have as good of an understanding of the severity of time travel and whose Starfleet was likely less bothered by it too (because no TCW in that universe). But the true version of your character, the one who is aware of the Temporal Cold War and has been all along--the version you've loved playing in every other mission--never did it, and protested long enough to save his/her team from firing.
It still isn't a perfect solution by any means, but the idea that what we saw was a timeline sans TCW with a more cavalier attitude to temporal manipulation than your canon toon has, rather than being the prime timeline, does help me understand why my character acted in a way that as we know from the canon shown in all five series, was unbelievably rash. Our alternate version is guilty, yes. But it's NOT us and we are not responsible for his/her actions. YOU are the one who stalled, stonewalled, and protested long enough to stop it.
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I mean, it makes no sense that there is zero consequence in game for all the messed up stuff that went on... You just carry on as normal when you've deleted all kinds of things which would have had consequences.
BUT, if it took place in an alternate timeline then there wouldn't be consequences in the prime timeline.
Off topic: it saddened me so much they whited out the scene as she said "I love you"...
I'm sure that was the effect they were going for.
If Noye sees that same scene, I bet he turns traitor and goes with the Tuterians/Sphere Buildere. Which may explain the 26th century Sphere Builder ships having front ends that look kind of like Annorax's ship.
As far as my time theory...
It's not exactly that the actions in that timeline had no effect so much as they created the timeline we've spent all the rest of our gaming time in. We can rest easy because the wiser version of our character who knows the full consequences of temporal manipulation stopped the weapon from being fired in the prime timeline.
It's really hard to put that in a way that makes sense though.
We are used to thinking, in a lot of our fiction, according to the trope that the alternate timeline is the meaner, crueler one and the prime timeline is the friendlier one. Even the JJverse is an example of this trope: the JJverse is a meaner universe with stronger weapons and a more militarized Starfleet because of what Nero did, and from the prime universe perspective it's a "corruption" of sorts (though unlike a lot of people that doesn't set me into a raging fury to acknowledge its existence as another Trek).
In this case, I think it's the other way around: the real timeline, the one we've known all this time according to the canon five shows is in fact the meaner, rougher universe that knows temporal war. It's not the presumably happier universe that never knew the Xindi attacks or the Sphere Builders, and thus naively underestimated the consequences of firing Annorax's weapon. Remember too that Annorax never fired his weapon in the prime timeline either and the only reason we know is the Krenim seeing into an alternate timeline. That alternate may was one of the ones with the TCW, though the Krenim didn't recognize that distinction at the time since we know their simulations are far from omniscient.
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It's fascinating because the Sphere Builders seem to be in a similar situation to the Solanae. They are both extradimensional species that have a goal of altering normal space so that they can inhabit it to the detriment of the native species. It's a testament to the Iconians technology level that they were going to do it in one shot with a single facility instead of the massive operation that the Sphere Builders had. Even if that facility took centuries to build, the Sphere Builders were a thousand years into their operation when they were hit by Hurricane Archer.
In any event the conclusion of the war with the Sphere Builders would still be a century off. That said, I don't expect to see the Sphere Builders at all. They've already lost their war. The premise of the war with them was that the Delphic Expanse had continued to grow and the Sphere Builders were able to field a full force in our space until they were defeated by Starfleet. With the destruction of their network this has never come to pass. The NX-01 and the Xindi not only defeated them in the past, but in doing so they prevented the war in the future. This timeline should never even see the Sphere Builders.
Whether or not we see the Sphere Builders in future STO seasons I can't say, as it would depend on whether they try *another* technique to get at the Federation when, as you say, their attempt with the Delta Expanse failed.
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Clauda. She was stable in our universe; unlike a Sphere Builder. Perhaps, the being assimilated is wrong and they instead did achieve the transcendence, and the blame for disappearance fell in the wrong place? That would lead back to the events of the TCW.
Someone's going to have to replay the mission...
That's my thought, that the Tuterians blame the Federation for the misfortune that led them to the dangerous experiments that removed them from normal space. (In my headcanon--perhaps soon to be real canon?--Noye finds out Starfleet and its allies deprived him of having a wife and he goes crazy, finding the the Tuterians and lending all of his knowledge to them to make them such a power in the Temporal Cold War. Again, that explains their ship designs and very Krenim-like way of talking about time in ENT.) As I recall, all we heard Noye say was that the Tuterians has failed and that there are none in this timeline. He didn't say outright "they were assimilated," which I think would've been very much on his mind after seeing the assimilated Romulus.
But my thought is that what we saw is the creation of the prime timeline.
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I don't know, could it treble back on itself in order to work out right? Once through to create the timeline with no Tuterians, 2nd time to create the hypothesised STO timeline, 3rd to diverge into the timeline of prime Trek?
But that would lead to the weapon being fired as a fixed point in time...
Time is difficult.
----
Ok, we know the Tuterians were stable in the timeline shown in Butterfly. If they are the Sphere Builders, they aren't stable in Prime Trek.
I do think this has a much better explanatory power than saying the timeline that recovers the core is Prime/STO Trek.
Ok, pre-Butterfly timeline has Tuterians living in main universe.
...
I don't know, it sets up a paradox as far as I can see.
My thought is that crazy as it seems, the destruction of Romulus happened in both timelines for similar reasons. This would be a once-in-a-billion sort of odds, amongst all the universes in the multiverse.
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Now that is slightly hinted at in the episode dialogue, not unlike Annorax's theories in Year of Hell about time fighting against him (crazy as he was).
Ultimately though, part of my reasoning on this theory is that it makes everybody "going YOLO" and rushing headlong into the temporal blunder, including your character and DTI more palatable, on grounds that the "YOLO version" and his/her universe had seen much less of the destructive effects of temporal manipulation, compared to what our true, canon character has seen. That version was far more naive and cavalier than the "you" you've played in every other episode (and the last few minutes of Butterfly).
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That being said, the episode is still mental. But I'm going to let them finish their story before I make a final judgement on it.
Well the Sphere builder ships were just reused models of other Delta Quadrant ships...people seem to forget how that battle was nothing but reused Voyager ship models
So honestly there is no real connection to that
Yeah, that is a good point, you can't really make a call in a tentative case based on ships, canon had them all over the place...
If only the Black and White Guardians were still around, they have this key...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I fail to see anything that constitutes some sort of attack against Cryptic. That would require me to be offended or angry--and if I were at that stage, I can assure you I would no longer be trying to work out the logic or make it right.
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Perhaps so. Not entirely sure it's a full-fledged predestination paradox, but it does make some sense.
At least personally, part of the reason I prefer my own theory is that I feel it better explains the reckless behavior of our toons AND DTI in letting the firing of the weapon go forward. It's easier to think it was a different version of our character, with less understanding of the consequences of timeline alteration, and more naivete, than our normal canon version.
Hmm...that's going to be kind of difficult with the Annorax gamble-ship...
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Something I don't know if anyone has thought about... the presence of our ship and Jarok's ship, on top of the weapon ship... if you remember from "Year of Hell," one ship with temporal shielding could SEVERELY THROW OFF temporal calculations... what about TWO ships?
Doesn't necessarily explain away the logic issue you mentioned... but, something to consider, anyway!
Though you do have a VERY good point IMO about a possible reason why the initial incursion (which I perceive to be from an alternate timeline to the prime one) went so badly wrong. Since Noye and team probably didn't know about Voyager's role in Annorax' temporal hijinks, they wouldn't have known to take that into account.
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This whole Temporal Paradox was covered more succinctly and humorously in The Simpsons Episode from Season 6 - Treehouse of Horror V - Time and Punishment. In that Homer creates a time machine toaster. He keeps going back to pre-historic times and scr*ws up the present. He does this dozens of times. The last one looks normal enough only all the people have lizard tongues. He decides it is close enough and lives with it.
Is that what is in store for us? Close enough but with some subtle differences. Or are we yet to see the full manifestations of what we have done? Or was it all preferable to Kagran throwing away the rest of the Fleets?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
They altered the timeline, something they sworn to never, ever do.
They messed it up, and had to come up with a backup plan to restore it.
They manage to do that, but in the process a race gets erased.
So... at the end of it, no big deal, iconians still here, story still didn't end, a race no longer exist.
I couldn't connect the episode to the least bit of Trek. Seriously disappointing.
Remember when the Voyager was part of a temporal explosion which completely destroyed the Solar System in the 29th century? After a fight in 1996, the Voyager crew was able to prevent that entire incident from happening. However there were certain things which had to continue to exist for various reasons. For one thing, if the Solar System was never destroyed, then Braxton wouldn't have attempted to destroy Voyager. If Voyager didn't resist his attack and the Aeon never went back in time, then there would be no technological boom which gives us our computers today. Elements of that timeline must still exist. The Doctor kept his mobile emitter as well, which means that despite the fact the timeline was changed, they still remember its existence. It's more like the timeline was adjusted, more than it was "erased".
This example is brought up again later when Captain Braxton attempts to destroy the Voyager because they ruined his life. In that episode we see Braxton arrested before he went nuts and yet they still had to deal with Braxton who went nuts. Then after they arrested him a second time after he planted the bomb, they went back and arrested him a third time before he ever planted the bomb. You would think that stopping one Braxton could stop them all, but it's not as easy as erasing parts of time. Instead, every action you take creates different threads which continue to exist and be cataloged. While Janeway was ready to curl up in a fetal position after thinking about time, it's clear that 29th century Starfleet has a better grasp of this concept and they can apparently rejoin or "reintegrate" all these different Braxtons.
Another interesting thing to think about is how one timeline can still be heavily influenced by another. Well, technically I explained that above with the whole Aeon influencing 20th century tech even though the Aeon should never have gone back in time to begin with thing. But another example can be found in the new movies. The Alternate Universe was created in 2233 which means that Star Trek: Enterprise is identical for both the Prime and Alternate universes. Despite the fact that the Alternate Universe would have a completely different 24th century by the time it gets there, the Alternate Universes's past is still influenced by the Prime Universes's 24th century. The Enterprise-E went back in time and destroyed a Borg vessel and assisted humanity's first warp flight. Cochrane's logs of this event still exist in the Alternate Universe, as does the NX-01 fighting remnants of that Prime Borg Sphere. Major events like this are interwoven through both timelines.
Now if I haven't lost anybody, you might be wondering how this ties into what's happening now. Well someone pointed out that the Sphere Builders were mentioned in the timeline where the Tuterians were still a normal people. This doesn't change anything however because the Sphere Builders exist out of time so there is no reason why they couldn't exist in the same universe at the same time. Think of it like Braxton hunting for the guy who destroys Voyager, only to discover that it was him from the future trying to do so. The Tuterians might have been living peacefully as a corporeal species during the events of Enterprise but their future selves still tried to destroy the humans in the 22nd Century. They can't really help that anymore than Braxton could.
I believe this means that the Tuterians existing before and after the temporal incursion means both are still technically the Prime Universe. Everything just had to come full circle in order for it to work. The Tuterians existed as normal people at the same time the Sphere Builders attempted to destroy Earth, but the Tuterians had to be "displaced" in time by our actions in order for all of that to happen to begin with. It's not so much as an alternate universe or anything like that but everything simply coming full circle.
It's a rinse and repeat here. I had enough of the whole story of messing up the timeline and a storyline that has now become linear.