Goodbye Season 10: The war that never was.

fulleatherjacket

Because three STF's do not constitute a galaxy-spanning war. When will the Dominion get involved to help? Has that plot arc been abandoned? Why were there never Herald-based red alerts or some other mechanic that would make the game feel like there were invaders in our own back yards? Are we really going to conclude this disaster of a season with a big ol' Krenim reset button and just pretend it never happened?

Because despite whatever information about season 11 that is released, it is guaranteed to be 90% inane combat. Instead of a pointless conclusion to a war that doesn't even feel like a war which will be followed up by another season of mindless starship destruction "that's about rebuilding and exploration, we promise!", can we not just fix season 10 so it feels like we're fighting a war that matters to win our victory and peace at a terrible cost? DS9 did it and it took three seasons. Season 10 feels as close to a real war as all the previous seasons did, meaning not at all.

thay8472

Give me six months in the foundry and I'll give you a war.

captsol

thay8472 wrote: »

Give me six months in the foundry and I'll give you a war.

I look forward to this.

thegrandnagus1

thay8472 wrote: »

Give me six months in the foundry and I'll give you a war.

Did you read the OP? If so, did you miss this?

Why were there never Herald-based red alerts or some other mechanic that would make the game feel like there were invaders in our own back yards?

No matter how many foundry missions you create, or how great they are, the "war" will still only exist in those missions and will have no effect on the game world. That is what he is talking about in the quote above. Foundry missions will really be no different than the episode missions telling the story of the war, and he is obviously not satisfied with that.

warmaker001b

thegrandnagus1 wrote: »

thay8472 wrote: »

Give me six months in the foundry and I'll give you a war.

Did you read the OP? If so, did you miss this?

Why were there never Herald-based red alerts or some other mechanic that would make the game feel like there were invaders in our own back yards?

No matter how many foundry missions you create, or how great they are, the "war" will still only exist in those missions and will have no effect on the game world. That is what he is talking about in the quote above. Foundry missions will really be no different than the episode missions telling the story of the war, and he is obviously not satisfied with that.

It's the same exact thing that happened to the Federation-Klingon War, the original, main premise of STO when it launched. Short of specific story missions and PVP, flying around Sector Space, you got no impression a war was going on. Things got a lot muddled when you had the Cross Faction "Omega Force" and content along those lines. In the Dominion story arc when Captain Idiot Kurland lost DS9, you, as a KDF player, recapture DS9 and hand it over to your enemy, the Federation. Lots of stuff didn't make sense.

Anyways, yeah, the 2 major wars (Federation-Klingon War, Iconian War) and several brush fires with minor powers (Voth, Borg, Hirogen... LOL, Kazon... Really..., Undine), there was never a feeling our galaxy was at war.

Go fly Sector Space right now. What makes one believe that the Iconians are handing our collective asses right now?

captsol

Unfortunately, the Delta Quadrant 'conflict' was probably handled the best out of all of STOs wars. I actually felt some sense that things were going on, however little it was. I didn't feel that at all with the Iconians, especially when my ship could eradicate them easily in spite of their supposed superior technology. I also never felt overwhelmed by numbers, everything was happening in the background and you were just supposed to smile and nod and accept it.

thay8472

No. Guilty ... I only read the title.

artan42

thay8472 wrote: »

Give me six months in the foundry and I'll give you a war.

Half a mission?



Please continue... *strokes magic beard*
​​

gradii

captsol wrote: »

Unfortunately, the Delta Quadrant 'conflict' was probably handled the best out of all of STOs wars. I actually felt some sense that things were going on, however little it was. I didn't feel that at all with the Iconians, especially when my ship could eradicate them easily in spite of their supposed superior technology. I also never felt overwhelmed by numbers, everything was happening in the background and you were just supposed to smile and nod and accept it.

I especially liked the assault on Vaadwaur prime in Takedown. that felt somewhat like actually commanding a critical war operation.

hypl

gradii wrote: »

I especially liked the assault on Vaadwaur prime in Takedown. that felt somewhat like actually commanding a critical war operation.

Make me wonder why Captain Kagran exists at all. Our characters led that charge on Vaadwaur Prime, and then we're thrown into the backseat again with the Iconians, taking orders from a subordinate.

anazonda

If you look at it from up high, the war has been brewing for a long time...

EVERYTHING you've done since creating your character, has been throwing wrenches into the machinery of the Iconian rebels plans.

From exposing the vulcan ambassador at P'jem, to making peace with the RR and Klingons, and finally killing off one of them.

The only difference is, that by hitting the Delta Quadrant and messing with the Vadwaaur (whatever) you threw the wrench in to the final piece that made them mad.

oldravenman3025

With five years of build up, I was expecting something a little more lengthy and epic.


Instead, it's going to be, in all likelyhood, a "tell" instead or "show" or "do" kinda war.


Disappointing.

drakethewhite

gradii wrote: »

I especially liked the assault on Vaadwaur prime in Takedown. that felt somewhat like actually commanding a critical war operation.

I felt rather spoon fed to be the one in command myself, however I will agree that the construction of the mission there was far better than anything from the Iconian 'War'. As it goes out with a whimper, I'll be glad to forget about it completely. It will become part of STO that I'll just never return to even with alts.

The sad thing is that they so interlaced that storyline with everything before that I've lost interest in *all* their stock missions because I know they'll end up with one big dud of a outcome.

I'm hoping for a massive change in direction, although to be honest the addition of more the same Fleet Holdings and now a new DOFF system that will likely require far more ships than I'm interesting in having... I feel it's a foolish hope.

Ideally a gaming company should sell me an experience and adventure, the other micro-transactions along the way should be seen from the Player's PoV as nothing more than enhancements for that core. Sadly, Cryptic seems only capable of making the micro-transactions and nothing more.

kodachikuno

I recently did a new play through of mass effect 3... its really sad that ME3 uses a lot of the same tricks STO often does (ie small maps, waves of mobs, small team) but manages to really capture the feel of a devastating galactic war every time you turn around. Most of it just in text but with the occasional cutscenes to reinforce it. They also employed clever use of backdrop animations like while fighting on Palavan's moon. Cryptic came close with their 'massive fleet battle' backdrop but it was just so flat it couldn't really be 'felt'

oldravenman3025

kodachikuno wrote: »

I recently did a new play through of mass effect 3... its really sad that ME3 uses a lot of the same tricks STO often does (ie small maps, waves of mobs, small team) but manages to really capture the feel of a devastating galactic war every time you turn around. Most of it just in text but with the occasional cutscenes to reinforce it. They also employed clever use of backdrop animations like while fighting on Palavan's moon. Cryptic came close with their 'massive fleet battle' backdrop but it was just so flat it couldn't really be 'felt'

And Bioware undid that epic feel with the color coded endings.


I would prefer to forget anything that was released after the first game.

kodachikuno

oldravenman3025 wrote: »

And Bioware undid that epic feel with the color coded endings.


I would prefer to forget anything that was released after the first game.

There is way too much butthurt over those endings still. And way too many people expect happy endings and plots/endings that don't require you to think and see little clues. Fortunately ME3 Deluxe was how I played and thus got the improved endings but still.

also... been meaning to say... epic sigpic is epic man love that

oldravenman3025

kodachikuno wrote: »

oldravenman3025 wrote: »

And Bioware undid that epic feel with the color coded endings.


I would prefer to forget anything that was released after the first game.

There is way too much butthurt over those endings still. And way too many people expect happy endings and plots/endings that don't require you to think and see little clues. Fortunately ME3 Deluxe was how I played and thus got the improved endings but still.

also... been meaning to say... epic sigpic is epic man love that

I never played the Deluxe version (I'm assuming that it's different from the so-called "Extended Cut", which I did play.)


And thanks for the compliment on the sig pic. I found it amusing, and decided to use it.

lizwei

I would argue that ME3's extended cut is actually worse. It flaunts Bioware's own arrogance, it essentially changes nothing since you're still forced to cooperate with an insane AI using provably faulty logic and it's endings are even more antithetical to the themes of the original game.

As for STO, well, the lack of any impact on us in this so-called war is obvious.
I would have thought the conclusion to an arc that's been going on for 5 years would be far lengthier. It's like they got this far, didn't actually have a plan, ran out of ideas and just decided to kill the whole thing.
It is amusing reading about one of the themes of season 11 being "rebuilding". Rebuilding what, exactly? All I've seen in this whole war are a few minor ship losses usually due to Klingon stupidity (no offence, KDF, but you've really been given some outstandingly dumb characters this season).

kyrrok

lizwei wrote: »

I would argue that ME3's extended cut is actually worse. It flaunts Bioware's own arrogance, it essentially changes nothing since you're still forced to cooperate with an insane AI using provably faulty logic and it's endings are even more antithetical to the themes of the original game.

As for STO, well, the lack of any impact on us in this so-called war is obvious.
I would have thought the conclusion to an arc that's been going on for 5 years would be far lengthier. It's like they got this far, didn't actually have a plan, ran out of ideas and just decided to kill the whole thing.
It is amusing reading about one of the themes of season 11 being "rebuilding". Rebuilding what, exactly? All I've seen in this whole war are a few minor ship losses usually due to Klingon stupidity (no offence, KDF, but you've really been given some outstandingly dumb characters this season).

You mean the attack on the Herald Sphere? Dumb move perhaps but necessary. They needed to buy time for the timeship's construction. It was expensive for sure, but the penalty for letting the Iconians make their final push to destroy the galaxy before the timeship was complete is more expensive still.

As to the words "no offense", what was it that Dr. Who said about such a saying??? Anyone?

lizwei

kyrrok wrote: »

You mean the attack on the Herald Sphere? Dumb move perhaps but necessary. They needed to buy time for the timeship's construction. It was expensive for sure, but the penalty for letting the Iconians make their final push to destroy the galaxy before the timeship was complete is more expensive still.

As to the words "no offense", what was it that Dr. Who said about such a saying??? Anyone?

Considering the lack of *any* noticable pressure on us, I'm just not seeing the reason for this push.
Kyana itself is basically immune from any invasion, and we don't see any effect of the war elsewhere, even within the narrative of the episodes, the Iconians had one minor victory over the Preserver planet, then got their asses handed to them by Tom Paris' group (their silly plan with the Solanae doesn't even make any sense if the Heralds are meant to be so implaccable).

Fleets that could've been used to defend key worlds were instead thrown into a meat grinder, no advantage was taken of being able to infiltrate the interior of the herald sphere (two words: trilithium missile), and the only victory there is achieved only because M'Tara's deep personal stupidity rivals Kagran's.

thay8472

Parking a fleet next to the Krenim base then returning to said Krenim base after killing M'Tara ... If T'Ket ... If L'Miren is smart... goodbye timeship.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

thegrandnagus1

fulleatherjacket wrote: »

I agree with the op. We need dev intervention to scr*w over other players so that the op gets what he wants. We need market intervention and price controls in order to force everyone else to pander to one guy instead of expecting that guy to take responsibility for fulfilling his own simple needs by his own effort.

Wrong thread bro.

happyhappyj0yj0y

fulleatherjacket wrote: »

Because three STF's do not constitute a galaxy-spanning war. [...] Why were there never Herald-based red alerts or some other mechanic that would make the game feel like there were invaders in our own back yards?

I'm just happy there's been so little Herald content, and that it's over so soon since the point of becoming "open war" as opposed to the Iconians taking clandestine potshots.

Giant hammer-wielding golems and floating magicians is nice for WoW and all, but really don't work here. I'm hoping that after the "war" is done (hopefully completely and totally in the next FE, and fingers crossed it's a short one) that it is erased from history and we never have to see another Herald in any content ever again so we can all just appropriately forget it happened.

kodachikuno

oldravenman3025 wrote: »

I never played the Deluxe version (I'm assuming that it's different from the so-called "Extended Cut", which I did play.)


And thanks for the compliment on the sig pic. I found it amusing, and decided to use it.

nope not really, it just came with the extended cut and a bunch of mutiplayer dlc and some odd bits... which means I never had to deal with 'just' the base ending, I got to see the extended on my first run.
Don't get me wrong tho... the ME3 ending was a let down and not what I would have done... Im just saying that it doesn't deserve all the butthurt and rage over it... esp years later.

That and my original point was, Mass Effect from start to finish, used many of the same ideas STO does to "breathe life into the universe," and the various plot driven wars, but did so 1000000x more successfully.

crypticarmsman

Yes, I'm really surprised we didn't get some sort of 'Iconian Red Alert' system for the war. If they wanted to make it different from the Borg or Tholian RAs, they could have done it like the Iconians were raiding major Fed/KDF/Romulan star systems (like say you end up defending Betazed from an Iconian fleet, and the space map is you fighting over the planet Betazed.
^^^
Had they done this for some of the new Fed home world systems they added with the sector space revamp; they could have in a way added these worlds to the game in a meaningful way, without having to do a ground social map. (And they're had in the story missions how the Iconians have attempted attacks on major Federation and other facilities, so it would have tied in nicely.)

IMO - big missed opportunity.

maskedmarvel1

i got mass effect 3 the day it was released , never have i been so pissed of with a video game before , the original ending was utterly bewildering , what just happened , did i just destroy all the relays , did i just destroy galactic civilization , did i kill edi , is joker left trapped on some eden planet with liara forever since nobody can rescue them because i destroyed all the relays , the occasional moaning on the STO forums are nothing compared to the sheer outrage that erupted on the bioware forums . but one comparison between STO and ME3 is the iconians and the reapers , both were great as a far off distant threat but when they actually turned up , not so good .

fovrel

Have to agree with the OP. The Iconians and their war is to much hyped. I still have to do some missions from the Iconians arc, but from what I have done, the overall message is, we are on an all out war and we are lossing. Now I have an announcement of season 11 that the war is over, we are back to bussiness as usual, everything is handy and dandy. What a plot spoiler. It seems wars in STO are like seasons, they come and go.

ricosakara

thay8472 wrote: »

Give me six months in the foundry and I'll give you a war.

Six months. Hell, we'll give a whole year, that way you fix out any bugs there might be.

ricosakara

warmaker001b wrote: »

thegrandnagus1 wrote: »

thay8472 wrote: »

Give me six months in the foundry and I'll give you a war.

Did you read the OP? If so, did you miss this?

Why were there never Herald-based red alerts or some other mechanic that would make the game feel like there were invaders in our own back yards?

No matter how many foundry missions you create, or how great they are, the "war" will still only exist in those missions and will have no effect on the game world. That is what he is talking about in the quote above. Foundry missions will really be no different than the episode missions telling the story of the war, and he is obviously not satisfied with that.

It's the same exact thing that happened to the Federation-Klingon War, the original, main premise of STO when it launched. Short of specific story missions and PVP, flying around Sector Space, you got no impression a war was going on. Things got a lot muddled when you had the Cross Faction "Omega Force" and content along those lines. In the Dominion story arc when Captain Idiot Kurland lost DS9, you, as a KDF player, recapture DS9 and hand it over to your enemy, the Federation. Lots of stuff didn't make sense.

Anyways, yeah, the 2 major wars (Federation-Klingon War, Iconian War) and several brush fires with minor powers (Voth, Borg, Hirogen... LOL, Kazon... Really..., Undine), there was never a feeling our galaxy was at war.

Go fly Sector Space right now. What makes one believe that the Iconians are handing our collective asses right now?

You drive a solid point. If the Iconian were kicking our collective asses, we be seeing a new galaxy sector map with tons of lost worlds and bloodshed.

angrytarg

happyhappyj0yj0y wrote: »

I'm just happy there's been so little Herald content, and that it's over so soon since the point of becoming "open war" as opposed to the Iconians taking clandestine potshots.

Giant hammer-wielding golems and floating magicians is nice for WoW and all, but really don't work here. I'm hoping that after the "war" is done (hopefully completely and totally in the next FE, and fingers crossed it's a short one) that it is erased from history and we never have to see another Herald in any content ever again so we can all just appropriately forget it happened.

100% agree with this posting *squeal of approval*​​