Tier 6 and tier 5-U Fleet Avenger Battlecruiser do not come with a starship trait.
They have exactly the same starship mastery skills
The tier 6 has a slightly higher base hull
Tier 6 comes with one extra bridge officer power
Console layout is exactly the same.
The skin is exactly the same.
Are we saying that (two basic features) one extra bridge officer power and a stronger hull = new ship?
Its the same ship. They changed the value of two stats.
The difference between the Arbiter and tier 5-U Fleet Avengers: New skin, Starship trait, one extra bridge officer power, one less science console, slightly stronger base hull.
You really are a bright one, aren't you? "Attention to Detail" eludes you. Let me hold your hand and lead you through this.
Firstly, you're comparing Fleet T5U Avenger stats to the T6 C-Store (NON-FLEET) Avenger stats. Console layouts at C-Store to Fleet equivalents are the same. A lot of base stats are the same. What the T6 version irrefutably has over T5:
1. Starship Mastery Trait. Please PM me when Cryptic implements Starship Mastery Traits like Reciprocity, All Hands on Deck, etc. on T5 ships.
2. +1 BOFF Skill Total: This may not seem like much, but that extra ability is a game changer for ships. That +1 got the Galaxy some teeth finally. For example, that +1 let some Cruisers that used to be too ENG heavy finally get some extra TAC capability. Along the lines of Cmdr & LtCdr ENG with LtCdr TAC. How many T5 Cruisers are like that? For the Avenger, you get a freakin' LtCdr Universal Station. Do you understand the scale of BOFF ability strength with LtCdr instead of being capped at Lt like the T5 version was? Do you understand what extra leeway this gives to a build?
3. ALL T6 Ships so far have Specialization BOFF ability access. Whether they're Full Specialization Ships like the Intel Ships (i.e. Eclipse, Qib, Faeht, etc) or limited access like the Iconic Cruisers and Avenger, Mogh, Mogai, JHSS, Sheshar, etc. More tools for a player to tweak a ship build in a desired direction while still retaining traditional TAC, ENG, SCI ability access. As of right now, no T5 ship has Specialization access. For the T6 Avenger, it gains a pretty respectable LtCdr TAC / Hybrid Station. In conjunction with the LtCdr Universal station, this is a wonderful combo and the T5 Avenger cannot replicate that flexiblity that it's T6 counterpart can.
For example, a very quick and hasty T6 Mogh/Avenger.
Ens TAC - TT1 LtCdr TAC/Intel - IntelTeam 1 (lessen threat, +stealth in combat), APB1, OSS3 Cmdr ENG - EPTS1, ET2, EPTW3, ASIF3 (or DEM3 for the fans of DEM out there) Lt SCI - ST1, HE2 LtCdr Universal - (TAC) - TT1, BFAW2, BFAW3
Not counting the +1 BOFF skill at T6, the T6 Avenger's access to Intel already gives it an extra edge the T5 one can never replicate.
========
There's more to it than "another BOFF ability" if you read the descriptions and understand what's going on.
Tier 6 and tier 5-U Fleet Avenger Battlecruiser do not come with a starship trait.
They have exactly the same starship mastery skills
The tier 6 has a slightly higher base hull
Tier 6 comes with one extra bridge officer power
Console layout is exactly the same.
The skin is exactly the same.
Are we saying that (two basic features) one extra bridge officer power and a stronger hull = new ship?
Its the same ship. They changed the value of two stats.
The difference between the Arbiter and tier 5-U Fleet Avengers: New skin, Starship trait, one extra bridge officer power, one less science console, slightly stronger base hull.
You really are a bright one, aren't you? "Attention to Detail" eludes you. Let me hold your hand and lead you through this.
Firstly, you're comparing Fleet T5U Avenger stats to the T6 C-Store (NON-FLEET) Avenger stats. Console layouts at C-Store to Fleet equivalents are the same. A lot of base stats are the same. What the T6 version irrefutably has over T5:
1. Starship Mastery Trait. Please PM me when Cryptic implements Starship Mastery Traits like Reciprocity, All Hands on Deck, etc. on T5 ships.
2. +1 BOFF Skill Total: This may not seem like much, but that extra ability is a game changer for ships. That +1 got the Galaxy some teeth finally. For example, that +1 let some Cruisers that used to be too ENG heavy finally get some extra TAC capability. Along the lines of Cmdr & LtCdr ENG with LtCdr TAC. How many T5 Cruisers are like that? For the Avenger, you get a freakin' LtCdr Universal Station. Do you understand the scale of BOFF ability strength with LtCdr instead of being capped at Lt like the T5 version was? Do you understand what extra leeway this gives to a build?
3. ALL T6 Ships so far have Specialization BOFF ability access. Whether they're Full Specialization Ships like the Intel Ships (i.e. Eclipse, Qib, Faeht, etc) or limited access like the Iconic Cruisers and Avenger, Mogh, Mogai, JHSS, Sheshar, etc. More tools for a player to tweak a ship build in a desired direction while still retaining traditional TAC, ENG, SCI ability access. As of right now, no T5 ship has Specialization access. For the T6 Avenger, it gains a pretty respectable LtCdr TAC / Hybrid Station. In conjunction with the LtCdr Universal station, this is a wonderful combo and the T5 Avenger cannot replicate that flexiblity that it's T6 counterpart can.
For example, a very quick and hasty T6 Mogh/Avenger.
Ens TAC - TT1 LtCdr TAC/Intel - IntelTeam 1 (lessen threat, +stealth in combat), APB1, OSS3 Cmdr ENG - EPTS1, ET2, EPTW3, ASIF3 (or DEM3 for the fans of DEM out there) Lt SCI - ST1, HE2 LtCdr Universal - (TAC) - TT1, BFAW2, BFAW3
Not counting the +1 BOFF skill at T6, the T6 Avenger's access to Intel already gives it an extra edge the T5 one can never replicate.
========
There's more to it than "another BOFF ability" if you read the descriptions and understand what's going on.
Are you that rude in real life or does a keyboard empower you?
To be clear I am comparing the tier 6 fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser and tier 5 fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser.
As my post you quoted said.
Neither come with a starship mastery. If you want the mastery you have to buy the Arbiter.
The console layout is the same.
They added one bridge officer skill
They changed the ltcdr tac seat to include Intel skills
The hull is slightly stronger
So they changed some values, three to be precise. No matter how useful you may think they are the fact remains there are only three differences between the two ships.
This to me doesn't equate to new ship. It's a minor upgrade, and I would have preferred they treated it as such and reduced the ship module count for tier 5-u Avenger owners especially if you already own the original Avenger.
cryptic does not exist in a magical microcosm where only cryptic and sto exists in teh world of computer games.
the players have choices, and are choosing other places to spend money, because other places are providing better entertainent value..
Unfortunately for you the price of ships in STO is customary, check the marketplaces for SWTOR, WoW, Destiny ($20 for emblems and emotes, and that can only be paid for with real currency), and particularly the Star Citizen ship-based backing options. The C-store is also supported by one of the friendlier F2P economic schemes on the market (everything besides vet reward and obsolete event items can be earned, or at least supplemented, through Dil and the game shovels that to you by the tanker full.)
What might help you understand the economics of this game is that not all F2P games work by charging small amounts for frequent purchases (ex. single cosmetic items). Others are based on less frequent, but higher value sales (ex. ships with a direct tie-in to core gameplay) the cost of which in STO is distributed throughout all those involved in the Zen/Dil transactions. What the populations pays works out the same in both cases, something equivalent to the cost of running a modern online video game. But content varies.
Neither come with a starship mastery. If you want the mastery you have to buy the Arbiter.
Actually, that's not true. If you particularly want the Arbiter's starship trait you have to buy the arbiter. If you want mastery levels you just need a T5-U upgrade token.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Tier 6 and tier 5-U Fleet Avenger Battlecruiser do not come with a starship trait.
They have exactly the same starship mastery skills
The tier 6 has a slightly higher base hull
Tier 6 comes with one extra bridge officer power
Console layout is exactly the same.
The skin is exactly the same.
Are we saying that (two basic features) one extra bridge officer power and a stronger hull = new ship?
Its the same ship. They changed the value of two stats.
The difference between the Arbiter and tier 5-U Fleet Avengers: New skin, Starship trait, one extra bridge officer power, one less science console, slightly stronger base hull.
You really are a bright one, aren't you? "Attention to Detail" eludes you. Let me hold your hand and lead you through this.
dude
...no need to be acerbic; his point is valid. If he owns the t5u AND the Z-store variant, why should be be obliged for the full cost of entry for another one? 1 or 2 fleet upfrage modules> sure. But 4 AND the cost in the store? utter nonsense.
If you disagree - cool! But no need to be a pendulous frenulum over it.
If you buy the new T6, the Fleet version is discounted down to 1-2 modules, just like all fleet versions of store items are.
Does the OP think the T5 version should grant the ability to get the fleet T6 or something? You look through the Zen store, none of the upgraded versions of the ships have ever worked that way.
So they changed some values, three to be precise. No matter how useful you may think they are the fact remains there are only three differences between the two ships.
There's six, you neglected the new ship skins, hull parts, and the new console. Whether or not you use them is a choice, much like that intel spec seat and starship trait. But its still part of the package you're paying for.
1. Starship Mastery Trait. Please PM me when Cryptic implements Starship Mastery Traits like Reciprocity, All Hands on Deck, etc. on T5 ships.
Also...I don't think a PM's necessary. Just go use your T5 ships with those traits slotted. If the question is earning traits on T5, word replace "trait" with "console" and you have the precedent for why that's not going to happen. You don't get Nadeon bombs without the Tempest, nor do you get Reciprocity without the Phantom.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Actually, that's not true. If you particularly want the Arbiter's starship trait you have to buy the arbiter. If you want mastery levels you just need a T5-U upgrade token.
If you buy the new T6, the Fleet version is discounted down to 1-2 modules, just like all fleet versions of store items are.
Only if you purchase the Arbiter. If you own the orginal Avenger, Tier 5 Fleet Avenger you are charged full price (5 ship modules) for the Tier 6 Fleet Avenger - and I am arguing that the Tier 6 should be discounted to one module if you have paid real money for earlier iterations of the ship because the tier 6 Fleet Avenger is really just an upgraded model not a new ship and players have already invested and paid for that ships existence in the game.
So they changed some values, three to be precise. No matter how useful you may think they are the fact remains there are only three differences between the two ships.
There's six, you neglected the new ship skins, hull parts, and the new console. Whether or not you use them is a choice, much like that intel spec seat and starship trait. But its still part of the package you're paying for.
NO THERE ISN'T
The Tier 5-U Fleet Avenger uses exactly the same skin and hull parts as the Tier 6 Fleet Avenger. (Only the Arbiter is different)
It has the same console layout. The same ship mastery skills and both do not come with a starship mastery trait.
So here is what is being said.
The Tier 6 Fleet Avenger is exactly the same ship as the Tier 5-U Avenger but with three values changed (two bridge officer values and hull) that is it. It is not a new ship it is an upgraded model from the Tier 5-U Avenger. Because of that it would have been nice if Criptic had reduced the module number from 5 to 1 for those who already have two iterations of the same ship.
Perhaps we don't want to fork out 2500 (soon to be 3000) zen on the Arbiter.
At the end of all this people will have 4 versions of the same ship and spent between 6000 - 7000 zen, just to get a:
Tier 6 Fleet Avenger with 2 unique consoles, 1 starship trait, an Intel/Tac slot and 1 extra bridge officer power.
For their trouble they will own 4 ships, 3 of which are largely exactly the same.
The Tier 6 Fleet Avenger is exactly the same ship as the Tier 5-U Avenger...
And for the 100th time, this is where you're going wrong. Regardless of how similar that stats may be, the Tier 6 Fleet version and the T5-U Fleet version are NOT THE SAME SHIP.
Just like the Tier 3 Romulan Valdore and the T5 Romulan Mogai are not the same ship. Same skin, few upgraded values.. different tier, different ship.
The answer has been given to you, you just refuse to accept it. You need to either except it and move on flying your current ship or buy the new ship. Those are your only 2 options no matter how much you complain.
I have the original Avenger Battlecruiser, which I paid full price for. I have the Fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser which is upgraded to T-5U, purchased for 20,000 energy credits and 1 ship module.
Why do I need to pay full price (20,000 energy credits and 5 ship modules - which is going to cost money, roughly £15) for the tier 6 iteration of the Fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser?
Surely the ship modules should reduce to 1 if you've already purchased the original Avenger Battlecruiser?
Yes, I get that I "don't need it" but it is, when fully upgraded, a better ship and the point still stands that I have already invested cash (twice already) into this ship design, so why?
I get, at a push, that if I want the Arbiter skin it's going to cost me £15,00 (2500 zen) - even then this could have been discounted for those who bought the original Avenger.
If I buy both (Arbiter and Tier 6 Fleet cruiser) the way zen works I'm looking at spending £50 - that's expensive.
well, you pay full price of 5 fleet modules, since fleet t6 "avenger" is not avenger but fleet version of t6 eqivalent of it.
THe entire point of the T6 rereleases is to make people with more money than sense buy the same ship twice. That's why you don't get a discount.
Pretty much. People still think that with an extra ship mastery, another boff station with intel boffs or watever, or/and another console slot will make wonders and such a difference.. actually there is almost no difference between a t5U and a t6 in performance. People will keep forgetting this until T7's are here.
Cryptic knows that people with money and money whales will buy the next shiny no matter what, so, that is their call. If they only add the ship mastery xD, people will buy it anyways, because it is T6, just for the number.
Other consideration is the custome. Personally thats my main reason to buy ships, i will never ever fly a ship that i dont like asthetically. I sometimes allucinate when people say "i dont care about the visual look, i just want the ship to perform nice"... seriously?? xd and some people still wonder why the designers are so "lacking on skills..".
So, if i want my Mogh to have other possibilities to customize, well, thats the main reason to buy it. And honestly, the ship look for me is essential.
actually there is almost no difference between a t5U and a t6 in performance.
Really? I challenge you to find any T5-U that can beat an Eclipse or Qib, they don't stand a chance unless the build is TRIBBLE, the pilot is TRIBBLE, or some combination of the two. Sorry but by making this statement you're showing a real lack of knowledge as to how much difference a full commander specialisation can make, especially on an Intel or Pilot ship. They are massively more deadly in PvP and have far more impact and survivability in PvE.
And this is why a T6 ship is not the same as a T5 ship.
what????? omg, dude, seriously, learn how to play this game..lol "they dont stand a chance" ow... xD. If you think a T5U does not stand a chance against a eclipse or watever ship you name it, then you are proably one of the less skilled players in this game. Sorry but it is a fact. or, the other option is you are a cryptic white knight and you "need" to promote the sells of T6 ships.. but i dont think this is the case.
On a humor note i will never fight against a Qib. That ship is so ugly that i cant even stand seeing it in space lolz.
I don't see it as invalidating what we've got. T5 and T5U are still viable ships. Just like T4 used to be before all the power creep and Fleet level ships. Before I gorund out my Delta Pack, most of my characters were still flying T5 ships. My KDF was flying the Mirror Qin and Kamarag Retro, my Romulan was flying a Fleet Mogai... I still got an Engie that has the old Fleet Patrol Escort, I've got a Sci in a Vesta...
And I still see T5s in STFs that perform just as good as any T6.
The only real advantage a T6 has besides leveling effectiveness (which it starts out at 0) is 1 console and a specialization gimick. Take the gimick and leveling out... Its not that different at all.
Agreed. Tier 5 still gets the job done.
Only one of my characters is running a Tier 6 ride. The rest are T5U, C-Store and Fleet.
Tier 6 and tier 5-U Fleet Avenger Battlecruiser do not come with a starship trait.
They have exactly the same starship mastery skills
The tier 6 has a slightly higher base hull
Tier 6 comes with one extra bridge officer power
Console layout is exactly the same.
The skin is exactly the same.
Are we saying that (two basic features) one extra bridge officer power and a stronger hull = new ship?
Its the same ship. They changed the value of two stats.
The difference between the Arbiter and tier 5-U Fleet Avengers: New skin, Starship trait, one extra bridge officer power, one less science console, slightly stronger base hull.
You really are a bright one, aren't you? "Attention to Detail" eludes you. Let me hold your hand and lead you through this.
dude
...no need to be acerbic; his point is valid. If he owns the t5u AND the Z-store variant, why should be be obliged for the full cost of entry for another one? 1 or 2 fleet upfrage modules> sure. But 4 AND the cost in the store? utter nonsense.
If you disagree - cool! But no need to be a pendulous frenulum over it.
Name me one instance, one example in the history of STO where you got a discount for a higher tiered ship due to owning a lower tiered one.
I'm sure the Intrepid fans would LOVE to hear that.
Tier 6 and tier 5-U Fleet Avenger Battlecruiser do not come with a starship trait.
They have exactly the same starship mastery skills
The tier 6 has a slightly higher base hull
Tier 6 comes with one extra bridge officer power
Console layout is exactly the same.
The skin is exactly the same.
Are we saying that (two basic features) one extra bridge officer power and a stronger hull = new ship?
Its the same ship. They changed the value of two stats.
The difference between the Arbiter and tier 5-U Fleet Avengers: New skin, Starship trait, one extra bridge officer power, one less science console, slightly stronger base hull.
You really are a bright one, aren't you? "Attention to Detail" eludes you. Let me hold your hand and lead you through this.
Firstly, you're comparing Fleet T5U Avenger stats to the T6 C-Store (NON-FLEET) Avenger stats. Console layouts at C-Store to Fleet equivalents are the same. A lot of base stats are the same. What the T6 version irrefutably has over T5:
1. Starship Mastery Trait. Please PM me when Cryptic implements Starship Mastery Traits like Reciprocity, All Hands on Deck, etc. on T5 ships.
2. +1 BOFF Skill Total: This may not seem like much, but that extra ability is a game changer for ships. That +1 got the Galaxy some teeth finally. For example, that +1 let some Cruisers that used to be too ENG heavy finally get some extra TAC capability. Along the lines of Cmdr & LtCdr ENG with LtCdr TAC. How many T5 Cruisers are like that? For the Avenger, you get a freakin' LtCdr Universal Station. Do you understand the scale of BOFF ability strength with LtCdr instead of being capped at Lt like the T5 version was? Do you understand what extra leeway this gives to a build?
3. ALL T6 Ships so far have Specialization BOFF ability access. Whether they're Full Specialization Ships like the Intel Ships (i.e. Eclipse, Qib, Faeht, etc) or limited access like the Iconic Cruisers and Avenger, Mogh, Mogai, JHSS, Sheshar, etc. More tools for a player to tweak a ship build in a desired direction while still retaining traditional TAC, ENG, SCI ability access. As of right now, no T5 ship has Specialization access. For the T6 Avenger, it gains a pretty respectable LtCdr TAC / Hybrid Station. In conjunction with the LtCdr Universal station, this is a wonderful combo and the T5 Avenger cannot replicate that flexiblity that it's T6 counterpart can.
For example, a very quick and hasty T6 Mogh/Avenger.
Ens TAC - TT1 LtCdr TAC/Intel - IntelTeam 1 (lessen threat, +stealth in combat), APB1, OSS3 Cmdr ENG - EPTS1, ET2, EPTW3, ASIF3 (or DEM3 for the fans of DEM out there) Lt SCI - ST1, HE2 LtCdr Universal - (TAC) - TT1, BFAW2, BFAW3
Not counting the +1 BOFF skill at T6, the T6 Avenger's access to Intel already gives it an extra edge the T5 one can never replicate.
========
There's more to it than "another BOFF ability" if you read the descriptions and understand what's going on.
Are you that rude in real life or does a keyboard empower you?
To be clear I am comparing the tier 6 fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser and tier 5 fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser.
As my post you quoted said.
Neither come with a starship mastery. If you want the mastery you have to buy the Arbiter.
The console layout is the same.
They added one bridge officer skill
They changed the ltcdr tac seat to include Intel skills
The hull is slightly stronger
So they changed some values, three to be precise. No matter how useful you may think they are the fact remains there are only three differences between the two ships.
This to me doesn't equate to new ship. It's a minor upgrade, and I would have preferred they treated it as such and reduced the ship module count for tier 5-u Avenger owners especially if you already own the original Avenger.
Improvements are improvements. There is more to it than "+1 BOFF ability" which your earlier reply was along the lines of. There are reasons why there's a T5U Avenger and a T6 Avenger. T5U is nice but it's not quite up there. Please let me know when the T5U Avenger can do the same things as well as the T6 version.
Whether you want to pay up for the T6 is entirely up to the player. But don't come to the boards acting like the T6 Avenger isn't much of a ship then go on in the very same posts you made wanting the T6 one be cheaper because you had the lower tiered one. Because that sounds like you're contradicting yourself.
One thing that I am seeing is that some are actually empowering themselves on how T5 should not give discounts to T6 ones by repeating the same old story.
That's faulty from the start. Buying again what you already is out of this world and you shouldn't even arguing on iterations of this topic.
They just took the old Avenger, buffed it even more, made a new skin and pulled it out. Still not believing me? Ok.
Try removing the Arbiter skin, you'd be buying again the Avenger with better stats.
Could have they released a new skin for the Avenger? Just like how they sold ship costumes pre-fleet ships?
How about making a token, from the very beginning, that could give access to every T5 ship specialization ship slots to pick by the user, instead of making you buy again the same ships at higher prices?
Still not believing me? Check Steam reviews for STO. It's a stream of downvotes.
One thing that I am seeing is that some are actually empowering themselves on how T5 should not give discounts to T6 ones by repeating the same old story.
That's faulty from the start. Buying again what you already is out of this world and you shouldn't even arguing on iterations of this topic.
They just took the old Avenger, buffed it even more, made a new skin and pulled it out. Still not believing me? Ok.
Try removing the Arbiter skin, you'd be buying again the Avenger with better stats.
Could have they released a new skin for the Avenger? Just like how they sold ship costumes pre-fleet ships?
How about making a token, from the very beginning, that could give access to every T5 ship specialization ship slots to pick by the user, instead of making you buy again the same ships at higher prices?
Still not believing me? Check Steam reviews for STO. It's a stream of downvotes.
Name me one time, one example in STO where we ever had a discount for a higher tiered ship due to owning a lower tiered one.
T4 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid did not give a discount for T5 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid, and right now, no discount from T4 or T5 to get a T6 Galaxy/Intrepid. The T1 B'Rotlh BOP did not give a discount for the T5 B'Rel nor the T5 Fleet B'Rel. This had been brought up before, long before the advent of T6, long before "Delta Rising" even existed on these boards, before T6 and DR was even a thought in our heads. And you people around here were fine with it.
Then all the sudden, the trend continues with T6, and people act like there was a massive change in how business was carried out?
Name me one time, one example in STO where we ever had a discount for a higher tiered ship due to owning a lower tiered one.
T4 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid did not give a discount for T5 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid, and right now, no discount from T4 or T5 to get a T6 Galaxy/Intrepid. The T1 B'Rotlh BOP did not give a discount for the T5 B'Rel nor the T5 Fleet B'Rel. This had been brought up before, long before the advent of T6, long before "Delta Rising" even existed on these boards, before T6 and DR was even a thought in our heads. And you people around here were fine with it.
Then all the sudden, the trend continues with T6, and people act like there was a massive change in how business was carried out?
Who said that it's ever been a good policy? If you're fine with spending 30$ for a ship you already have go on ahead.
I'd rather use them on Steam.
And still, you'd be using them on a game that on medium settings runs worse than Tomb Raider 2013 on high settings.
Name me one time, one example in STO where we ever had a discount for a higher tiered ship due to owning a lower tiered one.
T4 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid did not give a discount for T5 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid, and right now, no discount from T4 or T5 to get a T6 Galaxy/Intrepid. The T1 B'Rotlh BOP did not give a discount for the T5 B'Rel nor the T5 Fleet B'Rel. This had been brought up before, long before the advent of T6, long before "Delta Rising" even existed on these boards, before T6 and DR was even a thought in our heads. And you people around here were fine with it.
Then all the sudden, the trend continues with T6, and people act like there was a massive change in how business was carried out?
Who said that it's ever been a good policy? If you're fine with spending 30$ for a ship you already have go on ahead.
I'd rather use them on Steam.
And still, you'd be using them on a game that on medium settings runs worse than Tomb Raider 2013 on high settings.
So in other words, you got nothing?
Like I said, this was brought up before YEARS ago, and you guys swallowed it wholesale.
Hard to say entitlement when they want to make you pay again what you have just because they added to it a new skin and buffed stats while keeping most unaltered.
Comments
You really are a bright one, aren't you? "Attention to Detail" eludes you. Let me hold your hand and lead you through this.
Firstly, you're comparing Fleet T5U Avenger stats to the T6 C-Store (NON-FLEET) Avenger stats. Console layouts at C-Store to Fleet equivalents are the same. A lot of base stats are the same. What the T6 version irrefutably has over T5:
1. Starship Mastery Trait. Please PM me when Cryptic implements Starship Mastery Traits like Reciprocity, All Hands on Deck, etc. on T5 ships.
2. +1 BOFF Skill Total: This may not seem like much, but that extra ability is a game changer for ships. That +1 got the Galaxy some teeth finally. For example, that +1 let some Cruisers that used to be too ENG heavy finally get some extra TAC capability. Along the lines of Cmdr & LtCdr ENG with LtCdr TAC. How many T5 Cruisers are like that? For the Avenger, you get a freakin' LtCdr Universal Station. Do you understand the scale of BOFF ability strength with LtCdr instead of being capped at Lt like the T5 version was? Do you understand what extra leeway this gives to a build?
3. ALL T6 Ships so far have Specialization BOFF ability access. Whether they're Full Specialization Ships like the Intel Ships (i.e. Eclipse, Qib, Faeht, etc) or limited access like the Iconic Cruisers and Avenger, Mogh, Mogai, JHSS, Sheshar, etc. More tools for a player to tweak a ship build in a desired direction while still retaining traditional TAC, ENG, SCI ability access. As of right now, no T5 ship has Specialization access. For the T6 Avenger, it gains a pretty respectable LtCdr TAC / Hybrid Station. In conjunction with the LtCdr Universal station, this is a wonderful combo and the T5 Avenger cannot replicate that flexiblity that it's T6 counterpart can.
For example, a very quick and hasty T6 Mogh/Avenger.
Ens TAC - TT1
LtCdr TAC/Intel - IntelTeam 1 (lessen threat, +stealth in combat), APB1, OSS3
Cmdr ENG - EPTS1, ET2, EPTW3, ASIF3 (or DEM3 for the fans of DEM out there)
Lt SCI - ST1, HE2
LtCdr Universal - (TAC) - TT1, BFAW2, BFAW3
Not counting the +1 BOFF skill at T6, the T6 Avenger's access to Intel already gives it an extra edge the T5 one can never replicate.
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There's more to it than "another BOFF ability" if you read the descriptions and understand what's going on.
Are you that rude in real life or does a keyboard empower you?
To be clear I am comparing the tier 6 fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser and tier 5 fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser.
As my post you quoted said.
Neither come with a starship mastery. If you want the mastery you have to buy the Arbiter.
The console layout is the same.
They added one bridge officer skill
They changed the ltcdr tac seat to include Intel skills
The hull is slightly stronger
So they changed some values, three to be precise. No matter how useful you may think they are the fact remains there are only three differences between the two ships.
This to me doesn't equate to new ship. It's a minor upgrade, and I would have preferred they treated it as such and reduced the ship module count for tier 5-u Avenger owners especially if you already own the original Avenger.
Unfortunately for you the price of ships in STO is customary, check the marketplaces for SWTOR, WoW, Destiny ($20 for emblems and emotes, and that can only be paid for with real currency), and particularly the Star Citizen ship-based backing options. The C-store is also supported by one of the friendlier F2P economic schemes on the market (everything besides vet reward and obsolete event items can be earned, or at least supplemented, through Dil and the game shovels that to you by the tanker full.)
What might help you understand the economics of this game is that not all F2P games work by charging small amounts for frequent purchases (ex. single cosmetic items). Others are based on less frequent, but higher value sales (ex. ships with a direct tie-in to core gameplay) the cost of which in STO is distributed throughout all those involved in the Zen/Dil transactions. What the populations pays works out the same in both cases, something equivalent to the cost of running a modern online video game. But content varies.
Actually, that's not true. If you particularly want the Arbiter's starship trait you have to buy the arbiter. If you want mastery levels you just need a T5-U upgrade token.
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Member since December 2009
dude
...no need to be acerbic; his point is valid. If he owns the t5u AND the Z-store variant, why should be be obliged for the full cost of entry for another one? 1 or 2 fleet upfrage modules> sure. But 4 AND the cost in the store? utter nonsense.
If you disagree - cool! But no need to be a pendulous frenulum over it.
Does the OP think the T5 version should grant the ability to get the fleet T6 or something? You look through the Zen store, none of the upgraded versions of the ships have ever worked that way.
There's six, you neglected the new ship skins, hull parts, and the new console. Whether or not you use them is a choice, much like that intel spec seat and starship trait. But its still part of the package you're paying for.
Also...I don't think a PM's necessary. Just go use your T5 ships with those traits slotted. If the question is earning traits on T5, word replace "trait" with "console" and you have the precedent for why that's not going to happen. You don't get Nadeon bombs without the Tempest, nor do you get Reciprocity without the Phantom.
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Only if you purchase the Arbiter. If you own the orginal Avenger, Tier 5 Fleet Avenger you are charged full price (5 ship modules) for the Tier 6 Fleet Avenger - and I am arguing that the Tier 6 should be discounted to one module if you have paid real money for earlier iterations of the ship because the tier 6 Fleet Avenger is really just an upgraded model not a new ship and players have already invested and paid for that ships existence in the game.
NO THERE ISN'T
The Tier 5-U Fleet Avenger uses exactly the same skin and hull parts as the Tier 6 Fleet Avenger. (Only the Arbiter is different)
It has the same console layout. The same ship mastery skills and both do not come with a starship mastery trait.
So here is what is being said.
The Tier 6 Fleet Avenger is exactly the same ship as the Tier 5-U Avenger but with three values changed (two bridge officer values and hull) that is it. It is not a new ship it is an upgraded model from the Tier 5-U Avenger. Because of that it would have been nice if Criptic had reduced the module number from 5 to 1 for those who already have two iterations of the same ship.
Perhaps we don't want to fork out 2500 (soon to be 3000) zen on the Arbiter.
At the end of all this people will have 4 versions of the same ship and spent between 6000 - 7000 zen, just to get a:
Tier 6 Fleet Avenger with 2 unique consoles, 1 starship trait, an Intel/Tac slot and 1 extra bridge officer power.
For their trouble they will own 4 ships, 3 of which are largely exactly the same.
Value for money.
The pain is self inflicted, you just refuse to understand.
And for the 100th time, this is where you're going wrong. Regardless of how similar that stats may be, the Tier 6 Fleet version and the T5-U Fleet version are NOT THE SAME SHIP.
Just like the Tier 3 Romulan Valdore and the T5 Romulan Mogai are not the same ship. Same skin, few upgraded values.. different tier, different ship.
The answer has been given to you, you just refuse to accept it. You need to either except it and move on flying your current ship or buy the new ship. Those are your only 2 options no matter how much you complain.
Yeah, buyers remorse is strong in STO. Especially when the new thing you bought is broken/bugged in some way.
Really takes the shine off...
Still, I console myself to the knowledge that it it didn't cost me anything other than the time to convert Dilithium into Zen.
well, you pay full price of 5 fleet modules, since fleet t6 "avenger" is not avenger but fleet version of t6 eqivalent of it.
+1!
Pretty much. People still think that with an extra ship mastery, another boff station with intel boffs or watever, or/and another console slot will make wonders and such a difference.. actually there is almost no difference between a t5U and a t6 in performance. People will keep forgetting this until T7's are here.
Cryptic knows that people with money and money whales will buy the next shiny no matter what, so, that is their call. If they only add the ship mastery xD, people will buy it anyways, because it is T6, just for the number.
Other consideration is the custome. Personally thats my main reason to buy ships, i will never ever fly a ship that i dont like asthetically. I sometimes allucinate when people say "i dont care about the visual look, i just want the ship to perform nice"... seriously?? xd and some people still wonder why the designers are so "lacking on skills..".
So, if i want my Mogh to have other possibilities to customize, well, thats the main reason to buy it. And honestly, the ship look for me is essential.
what????? omg, dude, seriously, learn how to play this game..lol "they dont stand a chance" ow... xD. If you think a T5U does not stand a chance against a eclipse or watever ship you name it, then you are proably one of the less skilled players in this game. Sorry but it is a fact.
On a humor note i will never fight against a Qib. That ship is so ugly that i cant even stand seeing it in space lolz.
Agreed. Tier 5 still gets the job done.
Only one of my characters is running a Tier 6 ride. The rest are T5U, C-Store and Fleet.
Name me one instance, one example in the history of STO where you got a discount for a higher tiered ship due to owning a lower tiered one.
I'm sure the Intrepid fans would LOVE to hear that.
Improvements are improvements. There is more to it than "+1 BOFF ability" which your earlier reply was along the lines of. There are reasons why there's a T5U Avenger and a T6 Avenger. T5U is nice but it's not quite up there. Please let me know when the T5U Avenger can do the same things as well as the T6 version.
Whether you want to pay up for the T6 is entirely up to the player. But don't come to the boards acting like the T6 Avenger isn't much of a ship then go on in the very same posts you made wanting the T6 one be cheaper because you had the lower tiered one. Because that sounds like you're contradicting yourself.
That's faulty from the start. Buying again what you already is out of this world and you shouldn't even arguing on iterations of this topic.
They just took the old Avenger, buffed it even more, made a new skin and pulled it out. Still not believing me? Ok.
Try removing the Arbiter skin, you'd be buying again the Avenger with better stats.
Could have they released a new skin for the Avenger? Just like how they sold ship costumes pre-fleet ships?
How about making a token, from the very beginning, that could give access to every T5 ship specialization ship slots to pick by the user, instead of making you buy again the same ships at higher prices?
Still not believing me? Check Steam reviews for STO. It's a stream of downvotes.
Name me one time, one example in STO where we ever had a discount for a higher tiered ship due to owning a lower tiered one.
T4 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid did not give a discount for T5 Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid, and right now, no discount from T4 or T5 to get a T6 Galaxy/Intrepid. The T1 B'Rotlh BOP did not give a discount for the T5 B'Rel nor the T5 Fleet B'Rel. This had been brought up before, long before the advent of T6, long before "Delta Rising" even existed on these boards, before T6 and DR was even a thought in our heads. And you people around here were fine with it.
Then all the sudden, the trend continues with T6, and people act like there was a massive change in how business was carried out?
Who said that it's ever been a good policy? If you're fine with spending 30$ for a ship you already have go on ahead.
I'd rather use them on Steam.
And still, you'd be using them on a game that on medium settings runs worse than Tomb Raider 2013 on high settings.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement
So in other words, you got nothing?
Like I said, this was brought up before YEARS ago, and you guys swallowed it wholesale.
Hard to say entitlement when they want to make you pay again what you have just because they added to it a new skin and buffed stats while keeping most unaltered.