Yeah - wasn't one of the tenants of Season 10 from the Dev tream "We don't want to invalidate ships you've spent money on" -- yet now they seem to be coming out with T6 iconic (Intrepid, Galaxy, etc.) ships and you'd think they'd give a player who had bought the earlier T5 (whether upgraded to the U version or not) iterAtion of the ship at least some small discount on the T6 version.
Just goes to show when it comes to ANYTHING C-Store, Cryptic's 'word' isn't worth much. If they realize some Whale will pay they'll throw it out the door with some doublespeak if they go back on something said previously.
It's a business and their bottom line is profit above all else.
Name me one single time in the entire history of STO that you got a discount from buying the same ship as you moved from one tier to the next. That was the way it has always been and then with DR hitting last October, it's a surprise to everyone? Really???
Example:
- You bought a T4 C-Store Galaxy when your character hit Captain.
- When your character was eligible for T5 ships, you bought a T5 C-Store Galaxy. No discount from having owned the T4 version.
- You liked the Galaxy so much you bought the T5 Fleet Galaxy. Only discount is if you had owned the C-Store Galaxy at T5.
That's the way things have been for years, ever since the Fleet Ship System was implemented.
- DR hits. You buy the T6 C-Store Galaxy. No discount from owning lower tiered versions.
- You want the T6 Fleet Galaxy. No discount unless you own the T6 C-Store Galaxy.
In short, Cryptic's followed the exact same pattern Cryptic's been doing for years now. And people are still surprised?
And for all you guys that seriously believed when Cryptic said that T5U = T6 before Profits Rising hit, you guys were really naive.
Tier 6 and tier 5-U Fleet Avenger Battlecruiser do not come with a starship trait.
They have exactly the same starship mastery skills
The tier 6 has a slightly higher base hull
Tier 6 comes with one extra bridge officer power
Console layout is exactly the same.
The skin is exactly the same.
Are we saying that (two basic features) one extra bridge officer power and a stronger hull = new ship?
Its the same ship. They changed the value of two stats.
The difference between the Arbiter and tier 5-U Fleet Avengers: New skin, Starship trait, one extra bridge officer power, one less science console, slightly stronger base hull.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
You could argue that the T5 Intrepid Retrofit is the same as the standard T4 Intrepid except for a couple values, yet it is considered a seperate entity. By your argument, we should get a discount on the Intrepid Retrofit if we own the free, standard Intrepid or even the Intrepid Refit.
Nothing has changed in how Cryptic approaches C-Store ships. Nothing at all. The ONLY reason this argument is coming up is because people feel entitled to have something because they have a lower tier version of it. They see the same thing but better, when in fact it is a seperate entity under the hood. The fact it can use the parts of a previous model is a bonus that was added for people who want the ship to look like an older version.
You could argue that the T5 Intrepid Retrofit is the same as the standard T4 Intrepid except for a couple values, yet it is considered a seperate entity. By your argument, we should get a discount on the Intrepid Retrofit if we own the free, standard Intrepid or even the Intrepid Refit.
No, that's not my argument at all.
My point begins with the purchase of the original Avenger which was bought from the C-store.
Your example begins with a ship acquired for free, in game.
Nothing has changed in how Cryptic approaches C-Store ships. Nothing at all. The ONLY reason this argument is coming up is because people feel entitled to have something because they have a lower tier version of it.
No, people feel unfairly treated because there isn't sufficient enough difference between a Tier 5-U starship and its Tier 6 equivalent to justify charging the full amount with no discount.
In my mind if you have the Tier 5 Avenger, Fleet Tier 5 Avenger then the Tier 6 Avenger should have its ship modules reduced to 1 because, arguably the difference between a Tier 5 Avenger compared to the Tier 5-U and Tier 6 Avenger is broadly the same barring 2 stat changes (bridge officer skill and higher hull).
Just grind the Dil and convert it to Zen, then all your problems will be solved about having to pay for the T6 equivalent (insofar as only having to pay your electric and internet bill for the time spent grinding).
As with the Cruiser X-Faction Bundle and the Pathfinder, there's really only 2 choices: Suck it up and reinvest, or stick with your existing choices.
Because like all other MMOs, there comes a point where that fancy former top tier gear is eclipsed by a new top tier gear, and sometimes they have the same visual; just newer stats or abilities. And like them, you can grind for it free. The cash shop option is just there if you want to get it faster.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
Just grind the Dil and convert it to Zen, then all your problems will be solved about having to pay for the T6 equivalent (insofar as only having to pay your electric and internet bill for the time spent grinding).
As with the Cruiser X-Faction Bundle and the Pathfinder, there's really only 2 choices: Suck it up and reinvest, or stick with your existing choices.
Because like all other MMOs, there comes a point where that fancy former top tier gear is eclipsed by a new top tier gear, and sometimes they have the same visual; just newer stats or abilities. And like them, you can grind for it free. The cash shop option is just there if you want to get it faster.
Agreed.
Can we please have this "T5 = T6 Discount" argument added to the FCT?
they want us to pay for the same thing over and over again. buy ship 2500 zen buy fleet version of ship 500 more zen..... t5u comes along at 700 zen more. so that's 3700 zen so far...... t6 version of ship come out at 3000 zen ... next will be fleet t6 for another fleet module at 500 zen so flying a d'deridex will cost me 7200 zen. this will be the case for most ships. that's not a steep price ... that is a f'n vertical price! it really dose take the pi$$. oh and before some one says you can do it for free thru the Dexchange ... I know this but it don't change they way cryptic has gone about pricing these things and the structure or lack of structure on discounts due to historical purchases.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
Dude... is anyone FORCING you to get a T5, upgrade it to Fleet, upgrade it to T5U, buy a T6, and upgrade that to Fleet T6?
I believe the answer to that is a resounding No. You are NOT required to buy all the things. You can just go straight to the T6 and leave it at that.
I plan on buying the Negh'Tev once I grind out the Zen, and I might pick up the T6 Mogai later on. But I'm not required to buy other things to slap on the new shiny. Some ships do get a bonus for things off older ships, but they are not required.
I've got a Mogh on my KDF. I CAN upgrade it to Fleet and T5U, but I CHOOSE not to. The fact I'm flying my Delta Pack Mat'ha isn't a factor. The point is all the shiny is an option. You wanna do that, fine. Go buy the shiny. That's your choice. But it is not a requirement to buy all the shiny to fly one ship.
Has mining dilithium and converting it into zen ever, even once, been a viable option?
Currently 612,500 would get me 2500.
612,500 divided by 8000 = 76 days until I could afford the arbiter.
Please.
Dude... I ground out a Delta Pack. Its doable. Especially if you know how. You got alts and know where the best DL farming is? Go to town. Consider it a goal to work towards.
Dude... is anyone FORCING you to get a T5, upgrade it to Fleet, upgrade it to T5U, buy a T6, and upgrade that to Fleet T6?
I believe the answer to that is a resounding No. You are NOT required to buy all the things. You can just go straight to the T6 and leave it at that.
I plan on buying the Negh'Tev once I grind out the Zen, and I might pick up the T6 Mogai later on. But I'm not required to buy other things to slap on the new shiny. Some ships do get a bonus for things off older ships, but they are not required.
I've got a Mogh on my KDF. I CAN upgrade it to Fleet and T5U, but I CHOOSE not to. The fact I'm flying my Delta Pack Mat'ha isn't a factor. The point is all the shiny is an option. You wanna do that, fine. Go buy the shiny. That's your choice. But it is not a requirement to buy all the shiny to fly one ship.
you clearly missed the point. have a nice day
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
And what point is that exactly? And why the sarcastic, semi insulting "have a nice day" line?
my point was clear. oh and your presumption on being sarcastic and semi insulting is completely incorrect. are people in this day and age insulted when some one says have a nice day to them??
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
No. Its how it came aross. You just totally dismissed what I said and pretty much told me to get lost.
Normally saying "Have a nice day" is supposed to be a positive farewell. In this case... its brushing me off in a rude manner, and your point was NOT clear. I pointed out that you are not required to buy everything to fly one ship. For some, yes having the consoles from the older ships may give you a set bonus, but that is it. You can build a T6 ship just fine even without upgrading a T5 to a Fleet T5U.
OP, your issue is one of the reason why I stopped [redacted].
As soon as I understood how 90% of my ships would have become outdated in the blink of an eye (quite recently), STO had trespassed the "this far no farther" line.
Yeah - wasn't one of the tenants of Season 10 from the Dev tream "We don't want to invalidate ships you've spent money on" -- yet now they seem to be coming out with T6 iconic (Intrepid, Galaxy, etc.) ships and you'd think they'd give a player who had bought the earlier T5 (whether upgraded to the U version or not) iterAtion of the ship at least some small discount on the T6 version.
Just goes to show when it comes to ANYTHING C-Store, Cryptic's 'word' isn't worth much. If they realize some Whale will pay they'll throw it out the door with some doublespeak if they go back on something said previously.
It's a business and their bottom line is profit above all else.
Lie right there from their part. Really the T6 Avenger invalidates the T5U counterpart: there's no reason to pick it up compared to the T6 variant, like there isn't going to be any reason to get a T5U Defiant/B'Rel/T'Varo when the T6 ones will come out, Excelsior, Galaxy, Intrepid etc. included. I just feel it obvious.
I have a T-5U Fleet Avenger, and thats why my wallet stays firmly closed these days. There are enough free T6's for me to enjoy without paying through the nose for anything else.
The only one missing the point in this thread is you. Like it or not, the Arbiter and the Avenger are not the same ship and you don't get a discount on one from purchasing the other. Yes, the Arbiter is the upgraded version of the Avenger and it's able to use the Avenger skin, but it's not the Avenger. The Arbiter is slightly more powerful and allows the use of Intel Specialist powers that the Avenger does not. You might not think that extra hull, extra shields, extra BoFF power, a specialist seat, a new console, and a new skin make it a different ship.. but you're wrong.
There is no point in arguing about it, if you want the Fleet Discount on the T6 Arbiter then you need to buy the T6 Arbiter form the C-Store for 3k Zen (2500 if you buy this weekend.) If you feel that's unreasonable, then simply don't buy it. Crying about it and arguing with people that try to explain it to you won't change anything. You asked a question and it was answered. Not our faults if you don't like the answer.
Have a nice day. (You can take that however you wish.)
Uhh, yeah I agree with you rattler2, T5 ships are still useful, just the other day I took my old Mirror Patrol Escort and decked it out with MK XII gear (No C-Store/Lockbox anything, save the ship itself) and did some patrols with it in the Delta Quadrant.
And you know what?
I didn't die once, and even managed to peak 11k dps more than once too.
T5s are still useful, but if you want the extra punch of a T6 you'll have to pay for it.
Hehe, you can't expect to get a discount on a 2015 gaming laptop just because you bought the 2014 last year, which is still a more than capable machine mind you.
No. Its how it came aross. You just totally dismissed what I said and pretty much told me to get lost.
Normally saying "Have a nice day" is supposed to be a positive farewell. In this case... its brushing me off in a rude manner, and your point was NOT clear. I pointed out that you are not required to buy everything to fly one ship. For some, yes having the consoles from the older ships may give you a set bonus, but that is it. You can build a T6 ship just fine even without upgrading a T5 to a Fleet T5U.
my 1st post is clearly about the pricing of a ships progression. many people have gone through a ship or many ships life span progressions and I pointed out that there is a massive lack of structure acknowledging historical purchases.
you clearly did miss that point. but more baffling is how you've turned me wishing you a nice day in to me being rude, insulting and sarcastic. seriously though try and have a nice day.
Has mining dilithium and converting it into zen ever, even once, been a viable option?
Currently 612,500 would get me 2500.
612,500 divided by 8000 = 76 days until I could afford the arbiter.
Please.
Actually, this is quite viable, assuming you have an alt or two... or five.
I bought myself the Delta pack, Iconic bundle, pathfinder bundle... and that's just since Delta Rising without opening my wallet. Got them all through the Dil exchange, it's definately possible for you to grind out 6k zen for a ship bundle, or just 3k if you are intent on getting just the one ship.
If you need or really want it, you will work for it. If you don't, then you won't. Simple as that.
And to add, new hull models require work to place the weapon hardpoints, scale all ability visuals to the hull, properly ensure all skins from Material to Shield skins are appropriately placed, and ensure compatibility with other visual hulls if it has one.
Sure Cryptic cheated with the Fleet T6 version, which is a copy/edit of the C-Store version with the old Fleet skin. Had Cryptic released a new T6-specific Fleet Skin and a new Unique T6 Fleet-specific hull design, then we would not have likely had this thread (which is almost practically identical to the Intrepid/Pathfinder drama thread we had when the Pathfinder was released).
I agree. When you own a T6 fleet ship it is possible you also own the Fleet T5U version of it, the T5 retrofit, the T3/4/5 refit - and you pay full price every time. That's a pretty hostile pricing model Cryptic uses - then agian, it works.
When you buy a new computer it is possible you also own last year's version of it, the 3 years ago model, a model the manufacturer sold 7 years ago with a kinda sorta similar name, and so on - and you pay full price every time. That's a pretty hostile pricing model computer manufacturers use...
Replace "computer" with product of your choice.
Seriously, who's ever heard of getting discounts on new product based on owning some previous version of it?
Except, for the fact that your Strawman argument falls flat on it's own face in this case.
Physical products, like cars, computers, groceries, clothing, and/or even TANGIBLE services like being served at a restaurant, getting a haircut and having
your clothes dry cleaned are ALL completely different than a "non-existent", non-tangible, computer graphics representation of a Sci-fantasy spaceship that is nothing more than polygons arranged in a certain way & that ONLY "exists" as a sequence of 1's and 0's on a computer hard drive.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
Actually. No it doesn't. We generally pay full price when we replace our computers. We generally pay full price if we get a sequel to a game or movie that we already own. We generally pay full price to upgrade our operating systems...
The point is... a product is a product, be it virtual or physical.
For example of a virtual product, buying Half-Life on Steam. You do not get a physical copy. Then you go and buy Half-Life 2 on Steam. Again, no physical product, and you don't get a discount for owning Half-Life.
And speaking of digital or physical gaming products; usually the bundles are better. Buying the complete collection of Elder Scrolls, or Mass Effect, etc which also sometimes come with the full DLC/Expansions is cheaper in the long run than individual investment of each part (unless you're a Pre-Order Collector's Edition hunter/collector).
Of course, after the fiasco that was the Intrepid 3-Pack bundle, Cryptic has since learned to instead bundle one ship of each Faction that's equivalent/near-equivalent status with each other (as X-Faction bundles, while still marketing the 3/9 pack megabundles containing Tac/Eng/Sci variants of the same core ship).
OP, your issue is one of the reason why I stopped [redacted].
As soon as I understood how 90% of my ships would have become outdated in the blink of an eye (quite recently), STO had trespassed the "this far no farther" line.
Yeah - wasn't one of the tenants of Season 10 from the Dev tream "We don't want to invalidate ships you've spent money on" -- yet now they seem to be coming out with T6 iconic (Intrepid, Galaxy, etc.) ships and you'd think they'd give a player who had bought the earlier T5 (whether upgraded to the U version or not) iterAtion of the ship at least some small discount on the T6 version.
Just goes to show when it comes to ANYTHING C-Store, Cryptic's 'word' isn't worth much. If they realize some Whale will pay they'll throw it out the door with some doublespeak if they go back on something said previously.
It's a business and their bottom line is profit above all else.
Lie right there from their part. Really the T6 Avenger invalidates the T5U counterpart: there's no reason to pick it up compared to the T6 variant, like there isn't going to be any reason to get a T5U Defiant/B'Rel/T'Varo when the T6 ones will come out, Excelsior, Galaxy, Intrepid etc. included. I just feel it obvious.
I have a T-5U Fleet Avenger, and thats why my wallet stays firmly closed these days. There are enough free T6's for me to enjoy without paying through the nose for anything else.
For those that have the T5-U Avenger, the only decent option IMO is to allow them to upgrade to the T6 for a small fee. Twenty-five dollars is not a small fee. T6 upgrade tokens should be available for all T5-U ships. The fee of $5.00 would be reasonable considering the improvements in the T6 versus the T5-U.
Not only do I wholeheartedly agree with each of you, I also (for what it's worth) award you with a Citizen Kane applause; especially to panzerbjorne39 for a really great idea for Cryptic to placate the players that find themselves in this particular type of situation.
Comments
Name me one single time in the entire history of STO that you got a discount from buying the same ship as you moved from one tier to the next. That was the way it has always been and then with DR hitting last October, it's a surprise to everyone? Really???
Example:
- You bought a T4 C-Store Galaxy when your character hit Captain.
- When your character was eligible for T5 ships, you bought a T5 C-Store Galaxy. No discount from having owned the T4 version.
- You liked the Galaxy so much you bought the T5 Fleet Galaxy. Only discount is if you had owned the C-Store Galaxy at T5.
That's the way things have been for years, ever since the Fleet Ship System was implemented.
- DR hits. You buy the T6 C-Store Galaxy. No discount from owning lower tiered versions.
- You want the T6 Fleet Galaxy. No discount unless you own the T6 C-Store Galaxy.
In short, Cryptic's followed the exact same pattern Cryptic's been doing for years now. And people are still surprised?
And for all you guys that seriously believed when Cryptic said that T5U = T6 before Profits Rising hit, you guys were really naive.
Like what?
They have exactly the same starship mastery skills
The tier 6 has a slightly higher base hull
Tier 6 comes with one extra bridge officer power
Console layout is exactly the same.
The skin is exactly the same.
Are we saying that (two basic features) one extra bridge officer power and a stronger hull = new ship?
Its the same ship. They changed the value of two stats.
The difference between the Arbiter and tier 5-U Fleet Avengers: New skin, Starship trait, one extra bridge officer power, one less science console, slightly stronger base hull.
Nothing has changed in how Cryptic approaches C-Store ships. Nothing at all. The ONLY reason this argument is coming up is because people feel entitled to have something because they have a lower tier version of it. They see the same thing but better, when in fact it is a seperate entity under the hood. The fact it can use the parts of a previous model is a bonus that was added for people who want the ship to look like an older version.
No, that's not my argument at all.
My point begins with the purchase of the original Avenger which was bought from the C-store.
Your example begins with a ship acquired for free, in game.
Completely different.
No, people feel unfairly treated because there isn't sufficient enough difference between a Tier 5-U starship and its Tier 6 equivalent to justify charging the full amount with no discount.
In my mind if you have the Tier 5 Avenger, Fleet Tier 5 Avenger then the Tier 6 Avenger should have its ship modules reduced to 1 because, arguably the difference between a Tier 5 Avenger compared to the Tier 5-U and Tier 6 Avenger is broadly the same barring 2 stat changes (bridge officer skill and higher hull).
And then when T7 comes out, Cryptic will do it again in T7 Ultra 4K HD.
As with the Cruiser X-Faction Bundle and the Pathfinder, there's really only 2 choices: Suck it up and reinvest, or stick with your existing choices.
Because like all other MMOs, there comes a point where that fancy former top tier gear is eclipsed by a new top tier gear, and sometimes they have the same visual; just newer stats or abilities. And like them, you can grind for it free. The cash shop option is just there if you want to get it faster.
Agreed.
Can we please have this "T5 = T6 Discount" argument added to the FCT?
I believe the answer to that is a resounding No. You are NOT required to buy all the things. You can just go straight to the T6 and leave it at that.
I plan on buying the Negh'Tev once I grind out the Zen, and I might pick up the T6 Mogai later on. But I'm not required to buy other things to slap on the new shiny. Some ships do get a bonus for things off older ships, but they are not required.
I've got a Mogh on my KDF. I CAN upgrade it to Fleet and T5U, but I CHOOSE not to. The fact I'm flying my Delta Pack Mat'ha isn't a factor. The point is all the shiny is an option. You wanna do that, fine. Go buy the shiny. That's your choice. But it is not a requirement to buy all the shiny to fly one ship.
Currently 612,500 would get me 2500.
612,500 divided by 8000 = 76 days until I could afford the arbiter.
Please.
Dude... I ground out a Delta Pack. Its doable. Especially if you know how. You got alts and know where the best DL farming is? Go to town. Consider it a goal to work towards.
you clearly missed the point. have a nice day
And what point is that exactly? And why the sarcastic, semi insulting "have a nice day" line?
my point was clear. oh and your presumption on being sarcastic and semi insulting is completely incorrect. are people in this day and age insulted when some one says have a nice day to them??
Normally saying "Have a nice day" is supposed to be a positive farewell. In this case... its brushing me off in a rude manner, and your point was NOT clear. I pointed out that you are not required to buy everything to fly one ship. For some, yes having the consoles from the older ships may give you a set bonus, but that is it. You can build a T6 ship just fine even without upgrading a T5 to a Fleet T5U.
As soon as I understood how 90% of my ships would have become outdated in the blink of an eye (quite recently), STO had trespassed the "this far no farther" line.
Lie right there from their part. Really the T6 Avenger invalidates the T5U counterpart: there's no reason to pick it up compared to the T6 variant, like there isn't going to be any reason to get a T5U Defiant/B'Rel/T'Varo when the T6 ones will come out, Excelsior, Galaxy, Intrepid etc. included. I just feel it obvious.
The only one missing the point in this thread is you. Like it or not, the Arbiter and the Avenger are not the same ship and you don't get a discount on one from purchasing the other. Yes, the Arbiter is the upgraded version of the Avenger and it's able to use the Avenger skin, but it's not the Avenger. The Arbiter is slightly more powerful and allows the use of Intel Specialist powers that the Avenger does not. You might not think that extra hull, extra shields, extra BoFF power, a specialist seat, a new console, and a new skin make it a different ship.. but you're wrong.
There is no point in arguing about it, if you want the Fleet Discount on the T6 Arbiter then you need to buy the T6 Arbiter form the C-Store for 3k Zen (2500 if you buy this weekend.) If you feel that's unreasonable, then simply don't buy it. Crying about it and arguing with people that try to explain it to you won't change anything. You asked a question and it was answered. Not our faults if you don't like the answer.
Have a nice day. (You can take that however you wish.)
And you know what?
I didn't die once, and even managed to peak 11k dps more than once too.
T5s are still useful, but if you want the extra punch of a T6 you'll have to pay for it.
Hehe, you can't expect to get a discount on a 2015 gaming laptop just because you bought the 2014 last year, which is still a more than capable machine mind you.
my 1st post is clearly about the pricing of a ships progression. many people have gone through a ship or many ships life span progressions and I pointed out that there is a massive lack of structure acknowledging historical purchases.
you clearly did miss that point. but more baffling is how you've turned me wishing you a nice day in to me being rude, insulting and sarcastic. seriously though try and have a nice day.
Actually, this is quite viable, assuming you have an alt or two... or five.
I bought myself the Delta pack, Iconic bundle, pathfinder bundle... and that's just since Delta Rising without opening my wallet. Got them all through the Dil exchange, it's definately possible for you to grind out 6k zen for a ship bundle, or just 3k if you are intent on getting just the one ship.
And to add, new hull models require work to place the weapon hardpoints, scale all ability visuals to the hull, properly ensure all skins from Material to Shield skins are appropriately placed, and ensure compatibility with other visual hulls if it has one.
Sure Cryptic cheated with the Fleet T6 version, which is a copy/edit of the C-Store version with the old Fleet skin. Had Cryptic released a new T6-specific Fleet Skin and a new Unique T6 Fleet-specific hull design, then we would not have likely had this thread (which is almost practically identical to the Intrepid/Pathfinder drama thread we had when the Pathfinder was released).
Except, for the fact that your Strawman argument falls flat on it's own face in this case.
Physical products, like cars, computers, groceries, clothing, and/or even TANGIBLE services like being served at a restaurant, getting a haircut and having
your clothes dry cleaned are ALL completely different than a "non-existent", non-tangible, computer graphics representation of a Sci-fantasy spaceship that is nothing more than polygons arranged in a certain way & that ONLY "exists" as a sequence of 1's and 0's on a computer hard drive.
The point is... a product is a product, be it virtual or physical.
For example of a virtual product, buying Half-Life on Steam. You do not get a physical copy. Then you go and buy Half-Life 2 on Steam. Again, no physical product, and you don't get a discount for owning Half-Life.
Of course, after the fiasco that was the Intrepid 3-Pack bundle, Cryptic has since learned to instead bundle one ship of each Faction that's equivalent/near-equivalent status with each other (as X-Faction bundles, while still marketing the 3/9 pack megabundles containing Tac/Eng/Sci variants of the same core ship).
Not only do I wholeheartedly agree with each of you, I also (for what it's worth) award you with a Citizen Kane applause; especially to panzerbjorne39 for a really great idea for Cryptic to placate the players that find themselves in this particular type of situation.
Promotional thing. Won't last long.