nice, it was nice to come back to this after a few days and read your posts:)
Errr , thanks , but I'm not sure you understood the basis for my stance .
My advocation for a T1 PVP system did not solely spring from my love of lower tier ship PVP .
@ all
honestly, there's nothing wrong with pvp in sto,
And this would be one of our sources for disagreement ... , as I too find the current Meta to be unfit for enjoyable & equal footed PVP .
I would like to add to that time of the vanilla that many of those members were shaming other folks daily on the forums and opvp for not joining, that was a big turn off for many as what was seen in its final days, hence... its demise
Most of the "official" thread for VPVP was full of discussions about what could / should / can be allowed .
I have no idea what went on in OPVP , but I know from reactions on the forums as well as from my own fleet that some found VPVP either too restrictive or too much of a bother .
Thus clashes of opinion were inevitable , especially since VPVP was heavily and enthusiastically promoted .
as all good things, it takes time and perseverance
Not any more .
Neither PVP or PVE in this game are SO AWSOME to climb the mountain of full Rep trees and full Spec trees and full unique Doffs , and full unique space or ground traits , and top all that off with Mk 14 gear and ships that have the latest cheese .
You are either welcome to disagree , or you're welcome to claim that PVP in an unequal footing is a good thing , or you're welcome to claim that not all of the above is needed .
I won't be mad at you for either of those claims , but I will disagree with them on the basis of your claim -- perseverance is not enough anymore , neither for old players and most certainly not for new ones .
the previous attempts at a pvp channel that's primary purpose was to side step a lot of the junk in sto pvp and have fun matches, rules that many could agree with and see the logic behind... all failed because of leadership
you wont make friends by shouting at other players to join your channel, that their current ships are cheese boats, and that they suck at pvp and have to prove it by "their" rules... its a turn off- it never worked in the past and it will never work in the future
No leadership is 100% responsible for how "it's people" behave .
PVP-ers are a rowdy bunch at times , and that's the "bad" that you have to accept with the good .
all of the previous attempts would have succeeded if they were led by even handed leadership, that would have controlled the volume of epeen rage that was shown by the members and had the endurance to see the channel grow in time
People are not drones .
The won't be controlled by a "benevolent dictator" nor an "even handed leader" .
My own references to 'Voporak' in my posts above make that clear .
I respect him for his work on VPVP , but I don't always agree with him , nor do I shy away from expressing disagreement .
I do want to point out, it takes time
all these older channels seen a burst of members out of the gate, had a couple weeks of players AND THEN for whatever honest reasons (life, game grind, timing, etc) the base slowed down a bit,
and folks would log in, expect to see a 5v5 ready to go and... it wasn't
On that we can agree .
As I'm not exactly on neither US or EU time zones , it's often the case for me ... even with my own fleet .
and instead of going out and recruiting, going out and drumming up interest, going out and helping folks get ready for the channel... most all just whined about in on the forums and opvp then logged LOL
shortly after the leadership would implode in a ball of "QQ" a big wall of text over how they tried to save pvp and it failed then run off to the shadows of the game as the channel crumbled
flash in a pan really,
so I don't count any of the previous attempts, every single one FAILED due to leadership, simple as that
And here's where we disagree .
As I pointed out , there was recruitment (even overzealous recruitment) .
What I find you completely dismissing is the combination of the "DR effect" and Intel ship abilities .
DR brought plenty of stuff , one of which was the absolute need to play PVE ... , to advance your Spec tree .
Many PVP-ers detest playing PVE , especially the repetitive , challange-less stuff like Japori .
Thus they put down their hats , said "thanks but no thanks" and in oh so many ways declared that PVP was dead .
All this would not have mattered to VPVP if you could turn your Spec powers off somehow .
But thanks to Cryptic's wisdom , you couldn't .
'Voporak' and others foresaw this bringing a spiralling unbalance to what VPVP was all about , chose to join the "PVP is dead" crowd . I can't blame them for that , because they were right in the long run .
I appreciate your thoughts zobovor. I can pull up the Vanilla rules for a basis if you'd like (I saved them on my computer), but first consider this:
You say that we need to pick up the challenge for a last, best hope for victory. Now see, Vanilla PvP was my last, best hope for victory. When DR hit and it all started going downhill, I did everything in my power to save VPvP. Rejecting spec points didn't work, accepting spec points didn't work, compromising didn't work. Nothing worked. I didn't just give up and join the "PvP is dead" crowd because of some bumps in the road, I gave up because the last, best hope for victory I could muster was defeated. T5U PvP started up soon after with much less restrictive rules, but even that didn't work.
When you've seen your own last, best hope fail, when you've seen other people's last best hopes fail, you simply don't have the will to try again. I know it's easy to say from your position that we can try again... but I'm not going to. I can say that PvP is dead and that any new last best hope will fail because I have seen it happen. I'm not going to try again just to fail again.
Edit: I should also add that I wrote a guest blog for VPvP after Smirk gave me the OK. And y'know what? On top of taking weeks to make simple responses via forum mail, he never published it. He never even got back to me on acquiring screenshots for it.
The devs (read: Geko) don't care about PvP. It won't get development. I have been here for three and a half years and speaking from that experience I can wholeheartedly and truly say that nothing is coming. It's done. It's over. No amount of user-created channels or tournaments can save it. The match is finished, and we lost.
I appreciate your thoughts zobovor. I can pull up the Vanilla rules for a basis if you'd like (I saved them on my computer), but first consider this:
You say that we need to pick up the challenge for a last, best hope for victory. Now see, Vanilla PvP was my last, best hope for victory. When DR hit and it all started going downhill, I did everything in my power to save VPvP. Rejecting spec points didn't work, accepting spec points didn't work, compromising didn't work. Nothing worked. I didn't just give up and join the "PvP is dead" crowd because of some bumps in the road, I gave up because the last, best hope for victory I could muster was defeated. T5U PvP started up soon after with much less restrictive rules, but even that didn't work.
When you've seen your own last, best hope fail, when you've seen other people's last best hopes fail, you simply don't have the will to try again. I know it's easy to say from your position that we can try again... but I'm not going to. I can say that PvP is dead and that any new last best hope will fail because I have seen it happen. I'm not going to try again just to fail again.
Edit: I should also add that I wrote a guest blog for VPvP after Smirk gave me the OK. And y'know what? On top of taking weeks to make simple responses via forum mail, he never published it. He never even got back to me on acquiring screenshots for it.
The devs (read: Geko) don't care about PvP. It won't get development. I have been here for three and a half years and speaking from that experience I can wholeheartedly and truly say that nothing is coming. It's done. It's over. No amount of user-created channels or tournaments can save it. The match is finished, and we lost.
Game over, man.
Pretty much that. Exactly how I felt with T5U PvP, I gave up. It had a short boom but as of now, like the queues, it died.
thats missing the point of an mmo. instead of messing around trying to force life out of a putrescent donkey corpse, its soo much easier to just play a game that is actually balanced for and actively supports pvp.
bug ship vs defiant,
6 doff slots vs guy with 5
wells vs dyson
elanchi vs normal disruptors
congratulations on repeating the fact that cryptic have a long standing tradition of TRIBBLE up any semblance of balance.
that it was only terrible in the past, doesnt excuse the repugnant state of the current game.
and if i wanted to put effort into recreation, i would find something more constructive.
you want to be proud of your genious of turning a game into an unpaying job, you gop right ahead. other games offer me much better entertainment value for money, and i dont need to go trawling the forums desperatly trying to get others who will comply with my personal self imposed difficulty.
bug vs defiant is so season 4.They made it now that bug vs bug is no longer balanced since there are 2 types of bugs t5 and t6.Hey their money grab worked looked at how many people are left in game lol
I think folks are mixing up the "current meta" with whats possible
what is possible is to talk with a friend, agree to fly with whatever ship, tier, traits, doffs, consoles, etc and then do a pvp match
you can avoid all the b.s. that you think exists by doing that- don't have to worry about the "grind" don't have to worry about the broken stuff, just FIND SOME PEOPLE THAT AGREE WITH YOUR STYLE is all,
that's called effort, that's called taking responsibility for your own enjoyment in sto:)
Hey, y'know I tried that already.
I know, I know, so many are just livid over the idea of this suggestion, but it is the fix to that problem of op, grindfest, broken, gear
fact-
and that's really the only solution at this point, cryptic wont fix it,
I agree.
there will never be a day you can do the pug ques and expect not to see the junk, its private matches with your own rules and YOUR the only one that can make that happen, no one is going to fix this for you, so you can either A: cry about it daily or B: take responsibility for your own fun in pvp:)
Sounds familiar.
this isn't a insult- LOL so many seem like their taking it that way:(
No, I'm sure it's not an insult, neither are your oh-so cleverly hidden stabs at me for trying to do, y'know, exactly what you're saying I should do.
but trust me, if you do that? you will start to have some fun,
There's a video on youtube somewhere of one of those.
and as all good things do take time, so if you keep at it?
I did.
who knows,
perhaps your charismatic enough to make a lot of friends, perhaps you bump into a few others doing the same thing your doing and it swells into a group of 40, 50, 60, people wanting to fly pvp with your rules
I see it better to do that, then sit around complaining about things that will never change in this game- power creep
At the peak, I had 110+ people...
as for spec trees? ....LOL!! to me the fight between the guy with the finished spec tree vs a guy that's 50% done is no different then anything else in the past
bug ship vs defiant,
6 doff slots vs guy with 5
wells vs dyson
elanchi vs normal disruptors
Thanks for proving how much broken stuff there is. I'm sorry, but I don't want that. I want and organized way to clear off the broken stuff. And I tried it.
and the list goes on and on and on AND has been in this game for years, FOLKS your never, ever going to do a truly fair pvp match ever in this game without you and your opponent flying the same ship, with the same gear- if people want to cry and point their finger at the guy with the finished spec tree as the reason they lost cause they didn't get theirs finished?... all I got to say to that is its the same old argument that was the bug ship, the recluse, the list literally... literally goes on
but you know what the difference with the silly spec trees are vs all the other stuff folks use to blame? you can get your own spec tree up...
With the current level of xp gain, I'd rather stick nails in my eyes spend months grinding out specs. No thanks. They're bad. And I'll stand by that.
its not "buy a hundreds of million EC lockbox ship", its not some "payed through the nose lobi set or weapon set", this is just something you can get finished on your own at your own speed
Like... make a second job out of my game, or wait a year to unlock them all?
also, pro tip:
go do alerts.. like borg, right outside earth space, then when the boss pops? leave, change maps, rinse/repeat
you will finish your spec trees in no time doing that
See above
OR
don't worry about it, cause even doing doffing for god sakes will get you about a spec point a week for doing nothing but clicking up a full list of doff missions
I doffed real hard after DR and got nowhere. The gain is pathetic.
and if that's to much for you? if you seriously want max spec trees in 3 minutes of effort I got nothing for you except to laugh in your face over how pathetic of a gamer you are for wanting all of that for zero effort
First off, nice insult/assumption combo. Second, I don't want it in 3 minutes. I want to be able to get them in a reasonable amount of time without making a second job, or the ability to turn them off for an equal footing.
better to just let go the hang up over spec trees wrecking your pvp and just focus on finding folks to pvp with, you will have a lot more fun, you wont log on angry anymore and hey, one day you will log in and your spec tree will just be done, seriously it will finish on its own given enough time.. now.. LOL zero effort does mean its going to take months and months, BUT still,
no one got a full set of elanchi disruptors doing nothing LOL-
again, its all in your hands- ALL of it, the level that you want to pvp at, friends to pvp with, all of it.. you just gotta take responsibility for your own fun is all
And I did so. And as it turns out, specs were the death of it. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Vanilla PvP. That was my kind of fun. I took responsibility for it. My kind of fun was a place where there was no broken garbage, no imbalance. And it worked, it worked until Cryptic shoved imbalance on us. I really, really don't care what you say about specs, but they are unbalancing. No one wants to grind for months on end just to get on an equal playing field of something supposed to be about minimal grinding. I don't want to, Hilbert doesn't want to, Gio doesn't want to.
Now as for your claims that I bullied people in OPvP for not joining in... um no. Yes, I did zealously advertise. And I did say that the idea of VPvP was the best way to go. But did I shame people for not joining? No. However, let's take a look back now that we're nine months later. I said back then that normal PvP was going to collapse under the grinding and garbage. I said that we needed to set down rules to survive. And was I right?
Look around. Do you see PvP happening? Do you see the community thriving? No. I was right in the end. PvP did collapse under garbage. And what are the last, best hopes being tried to survive? Rules. VPvP was attacked at every turn for being laying out rules that people could play under. 110+ people joined in... more than exist in the community right now.
beamy, I challenge you to try again. Instead of sitting there, lashing out at everyone else - and if you're going to make spurious claims about me, say my name and don't hide behind "the leadership" - you get your TRIBBLE out there and see what it's like to try to make anything work now. It's your turn. You've had your little fun calling us quitters for leaving the impossible battle, so go do what you're saying to do. Go get private matches going, dozens of them, with teams of 5v5, take pictures, take videos, show us how alive and well PvP is, THEN come back and tell us how amazing the Star Trek Online Player vs. Player experience is.
I'm Admiral Voporak, son, the creator of Vanilla PvP, my last, best hope, and if you have a problem with that, you are cordially invited to eat your own words and do better.
P.S. Dreadnought the MMO looks to be everything STO PvP was not. I'm taking responsibility for my fun by going there. If you wanna find me on the their forums, the name's Spork.
After reading through some of your text walls, I think you should leave the discussion Beameddown. Your point of view is flawed and its causing more harm than good to a community that is slowly trying to resurface itself (I say this because last month no one couldn't even get C&H to start but these last 2 weeks have been surprising with the amount of queues popping) despite the latest influx of rubbish that has yet to be balanced.
I personally never did VPvP, wasn't my cup of tea. I never used broken and unbalanced cheese anyway because getting kills thanks to a console hardly proves what I'm capable of and I had already proved several times I could take on 2 players of equal gear to me at the same time. I was after bigger fish and always chased after stronger opponents, even ones that used cheese, to improve my skills (it's where I learned the value of the BFI Ram). I respect what VPvP stood for and its success (100+ people is success Beameddown). But today the problem isn't just cryptic, it's the players left in PvP. Players that have always thrived using broken gear to compete because they know they don't have the balls and the skills to win otherwise. These players are driving away the last few loyal PvPers.
The solution however is simple, don't rage quit, gang up on these players in a queue or Ker'rat on sight and don't assist them if they're on your team.
Or a tactic that I've used in C&H is, if they come for you and you're on your own, drag them into a ball of players and watch them try to fight then.
The gear difference was once manageable. It was bearable even just before DR. Grab fleet ship, fleet equips (no need for mad EC), certain doffs, an additional slot, and you could compete. Heck, if you knew enough, even RA level equips could work. Rep powercreep was held somewhat in check since you could slot only 4.
Then specs, paid Boff powers, and upgrades blew that all to hell. Granted, one can theoretically grind out the paid stuff, but it takes stupid lengths of time to have anything beyond a single setup.
Specs now are almost exactly what they said they wanted to avoid when limiting the number of rep abilities slottable.
Add that to the issues the game already had rendering all those different abilities, and well......
I was always casual, monkeying around with setups, never sticking with one long enough to optimize it, resulting in a small collection of lockbox ships, fleet ships, playing with blue MkXI when everyone rocked purple MkXII. I still had several wonky ideas I was hoping to get round to sometime, but then I lost my drive. It just didn't seem worth it anymore.
I'm still in STO, but just as a space-Barbie-theme park player. Look at the pretty colours, swoop through space and play an episode. That's about all it feels good for. The very essence of being all dressed up with nowhere to go.
you can avoid all the b.s. that you think exists by doing that- don't have to worry about the "grind" don't have to worry about the broken stuff, just FIND SOME PEOPLE THAT AGREE WITH YOUR STYLE is all,
that's called effort, that's called taking responsibility for your own enjoyment in sto
again, its all in your hands- ALL of it, the level that you want to pvp at, friends to pvp with, all of it.. you just gotta take responsibility for your own fun is all
[also, pro tip:
go do alerts.. like borg, right outside earth space, then when the boss pops? leave, change maps, rinse/repeat
you will finish your spec trees in no time doing that
Just logged in to say this:
Beameddown no offence but... This is by far mind numbing stupidest set of sentences you ever wrote.
-You are seriously suggesting to people that want to PvP to do PvE to do PvP.
(after hundreds of hours doing mindnumbing useless grind which you call "in no time")
- You are shifting responsibility for failure of STO PvP and failure of STO in general to players and letting developers of the hook.
-make effort to have fun? take responsibility to have fun? take responsibility to enjoy a GAME?? WTF, are you able to even read what you are writing.
Who are you talking to anyway?
fkn hell, MMOs rot peoples minds it seems.
why is it a bad thing to be a proponent for folks side stepping the cheese and creating private matches?
folks making new friends?
look,
one week your here for sto pvp, the next week your crying about the meta and talking up what new game your playing,
when is this death spiral for you going to finally hit the ground? LOL
I would have thought by now that you would have had enough brain power to see that your bipolar issue is the reason your t5u channel failed LOL
your angry rick, and when you get angry you lash out at everything and everyone around you.. then when you "flip" its all sunshine and roses and you think folks are suppose to laugh it all off with you-
you
have
a
problem,
a real one, in real life- I urge you to go get help, no joke, no sarcasm.. I don't often respond directly to you rick, you know that, years in this game, on these forums, I saw you go through these rollercoaster ups and downs..
that's why I saw your t5u implosion coming a mile away, you were up when you created that channel, but as you tried to drum up interest in it (by trying to shame people to join it, bashing pvp players that weren't in it, and being a jerk) IT started to fail... and then that's when your little rollercoaster started to go down, and boy when you were going down man,
it was not pretty to read on the forums or on opvp,
look, im going to cut this one short, right here, go get help really
next time you start getting angry, STOP for a second, THINK about why your angry, and try and de-escalate yourself down, its just a game, its suppose to be fun
and for the jerk part, JUST BECAUSE you think your done with something, doesn't mean everyone else in the world should be done with it to- LOL
thats delusional megalomania
At least I don't have to resort on capital wording in every sentence, overabudance of capital "LOL"s, or keep on writing threads that are plain madness. If you can't still get it after everyone else's comments... well let's just say that I have the decency to not call brain damaged someone.
And sharx literally stole my words. Having to work to enjoy a game and supporting that idea is outright and plain stupid. Which brings us back to the above:
Beameddown you don't seem to understand that what you're suggesting has been tried already. The problem you are ignoring however is that PvP has been made easy for everyone! It's not difficult to win a match. Get a few embassy consoles, pilot ship, beams, FAW, kemocite, resonance beam and away you go with an "I win" button. PvP isn't harder now, it's easy as chips! Before DR it was difficult, cheese was as much of a crutch as it was an advantage. Back then there was no easy way to win without spending huge resources and even then you had to spend time learning how to use the build. You had to learn how fight and learn how the mechanics of the game worked. But now!? Slap on the aforementioned and press the space bar repeatedly!
You don't need to aim, you're using beams!
You don't need to time you're attacks, embassy consoles will do that for you!
Having a little trouble with that cruiser? Well here's kemocite and resonance beam!
This has allowed every idiot to buy his way into a match and rub it in the faces of everyone who earn't the right to call themselves a good PvPer or Veteran if you like. Back then you had to earn the respect of players with skill, combat prowess and teamwork. Now it's a facerolling fest of Noobs that can't fight without their toys and cry the moment something is nerfed (and believe me they will when the aforementioned get 'balanced').
I still go out and queue for C&H and I'm often in OPvP asking for people to join the queue hoping for a clean match which I get sometimes. And when someone turns up with their Lag-Fail-Build I simply drag them to the nearest Fed/Klink ball and watch them dance.
Private matches however is something that is hardly going to start now. It'll be like trying to wean a child off sweets and candy. These new PvPers won't want to fight without their toys and broken builds because they know they won't stand a chance against people who were rocking out pre-DR and especially pre-LoR. They're not interested in a 10-15min battle of wits, stamina and skill. They want a 5 second fight and then move on to the next 5 second fight.
Things will change again though. Just like LoR changed the game and people thought it was the end and it ended up with season 8.5 being one of the best for PvP, because everyone got used to the equipment and things reached a semi-balanced state, and similarly this season will too end. Players will reach an equilibrium of gear and specialisations and then there won't be any light or cracks for the lag noobs to use as an exploit. It'll be similar to the submarine warfare we experienced before DR and LoR. And finally we'll start seeing the word "HAX" being repeated in OPvP and Ker'rat.
Just so some useful information is posted in this thread that hasn't been repeated 10,000 times over the past 4 years, we'll use a visual diagram for simplicity since atm were asking people Que Pasa!?
Just so some useful information is posted in this thread that hasn't been repeated 10,000 times over the past 4 years, we'll use a visual diagram for simplicity since atm were asking people Que Pasa!?
Comments
Errr , thanks , but I'm not sure you understood the basis for my stance .
My advocation for a T1 PVP system did not solely spring from my love of lower tier ship PVP .
And this would be one of our sources for disagreement ... , as I too find the current Meta to be unfit for enjoyable & equal footed PVP .
Most of the "official" thread for VPVP was full of discussions about what could / should / can be allowed .
I have no idea what went on in OPVP , but I know from reactions on the forums as well as from my own fleet that some found VPVP either too restrictive or too much of a bother .
Thus clashes of opinion were inevitable , especially since VPVP was heavily and enthusiastically promoted .
Not any more .
Neither PVP or PVE in this game are SO AWSOME to climb the mountain of full Rep trees and full Spec trees and full unique Doffs , and full unique space or ground traits , and top all that off with Mk 14 gear and ships that have the latest cheese .
You are either welcome to disagree , or you're welcome to claim that PVP in an unequal footing is a good thing , or you're welcome to claim that not all of the above is needed .
I won't be mad at you for either of those claims , but I will disagree with them on the basis of your claim -- perseverance is not enough anymore , neither for old players and most certainly not for new ones .
No leadership is 100% responsible for how "it's people" behave .
PVP-ers are a rowdy bunch at times , and that's the "bad" that you have to accept with the good .
People are not drones .
The won't be controlled by a "benevolent dictator" nor an "even handed leader" .
My own references to 'Voporak' in my posts above make that clear .
I respect him for his work on VPVP , but I don't always agree with him , nor do I shy away from expressing disagreement .
On that we can agree .
As I'm not exactly on neither US or EU time zones , it's often the case for me ... even with my own fleet .
And here's where we disagree .
As I pointed out , there was recruitment (even overzealous recruitment) .
What I find you completely dismissing is the combination of the "DR effect" and Intel ship abilities .
DR brought plenty of stuff , one of which was the absolute need to play PVE ... , to advance your Spec tree .
Many PVP-ers detest playing PVE , especially the repetitive , challange-less stuff like Japori .
Thus they put down their hats , said "thanks but no thanks" and in oh so many ways declared that PVP was dead .
All this would not have mattered to VPVP if you could turn your Spec powers off somehow .
But thanks to Cryptic's wisdom , you couldn't .
'Voporak' and others foresaw this bringing a spiralling unbalance to what VPVP was all about , chose to join the "PVP is dead" crowd . I can't blame them for that , because they were right in the long run .
You say that we need to pick up the challenge for a last, best hope for victory. Now see, Vanilla PvP was my last, best hope for victory. When DR hit and it all started going downhill, I did everything in my power to save VPvP. Rejecting spec points didn't work, accepting spec points didn't work, compromising didn't work. Nothing worked. I didn't just give up and join the "PvP is dead" crowd because of some bumps in the road, I gave up because the last, best hope for victory I could muster was defeated. T5U PvP started up soon after with much less restrictive rules, but even that didn't work.
When you've seen your own last, best hope fail, when you've seen other people's last best hopes fail, you simply don't have the will to try again. I know it's easy to say from your position that we can try again... but I'm not going to. I can say that PvP is dead and that any new last best hope will fail because I have seen it happen. I'm not going to try again just to fail again.
Edit: I should also add that I wrote a guest blog for VPvP after Smirk gave me the OK. And y'know what? On top of taking weeks to make simple responses via forum mail, he never published it. He never even got back to me on acquiring screenshots for it.
The devs (read: Geko) don't care about PvP. It won't get development. I have been here for three and a half years and speaking from that experience I can wholeheartedly and truly say that nothing is coming. It's done. It's over. No amount of user-created channels or tournaments can save it. The match is finished, and we lost.
Game over, man.
Pretty much that. Exactly how I felt with T5U PvP, I gave up. It had a short boom but as of now, like the queues, it died.
bug vs defiant is so season 4.They made it now that bug vs bug is no longer balanced since there are 2 types of bugs t5 and t6.Hey their money grab worked looked at how many people are left in game lol
Hey, y'know I tried that already.
I agree.
Sounds familiar.
No, I'm sure it's not an insult, neither are your oh-so cleverly hidden stabs at me for trying to do, y'know, exactly what you're saying I should do.
Yep. I did.
Shoutout to my boy @giotariz.
There's a video on youtube somewhere of one of those.
I did.
At the peak, I had 110+ people...
Thanks for proving how much broken stuff there is. I'm sorry, but I don't want that. I want and organized way to clear off the broken stuff. And I tried it.
With the current level of xp gain, I'd rather stick nails in my eyes spend months grinding out specs. No thanks. They're bad. And I'll stand by that.
Like... make a second job out of my game, or wait a year to unlock them all?
See above
I doffed real hard after DR and got nowhere. The gain is pathetic.
First off, nice insult/assumption combo. Second, I don't want it in 3 minutes. I want to be able to get them in a reasonable amount of time without making a second job, or the ability to turn them off for an equal footing.
And I did so. And as it turns out, specs were the death of it. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Vanilla PvP. That was my kind of fun. I took responsibility for it. My kind of fun was a place where there was no broken garbage, no imbalance. And it worked, it worked until Cryptic shoved imbalance on us. I really, really don't care what you say about specs, but they are unbalancing. No one wants to grind for months on end just to get on an equal playing field of something supposed to be about minimal grinding. I don't want to, Hilbert doesn't want to, Gio doesn't want to.
Now as for your claims that I bullied people in OPvP for not joining in... um no. Yes, I did zealously advertise. And I did say that the idea of VPvP was the best way to go. But did I shame people for not joining? No. However, let's take a look back now that we're nine months later. I said back then that normal PvP was going to collapse under the grinding and garbage. I said that we needed to set down rules to survive. And was I right?
Look around. Do you see PvP happening? Do you see the community thriving? No. I was right in the end. PvP did collapse under garbage. And what are the last, best hopes being tried to survive? Rules. VPvP was attacked at every turn for being laying out rules that people could play under. 110+ people joined in... more than exist in the community right now.
beamy, I challenge you to try again. Instead of sitting there, lashing out at everyone else - and if you're going to make spurious claims about me, say my name and don't hide behind "the leadership" - you get your TRIBBLE out there and see what it's like to try to make anything work now. It's your turn. You've had your little fun calling us quitters for leaving the impossible battle, so go do what you're saying to do. Go get private matches going, dozens of them, with teams of 5v5, take pictures, take videos, show us how alive and well PvP is, THEN come back and tell us how amazing the Star Trek Online Player vs. Player experience is.
I'm Admiral Voporak, son, the creator of Vanilla PvP, my last, best hope, and if you have a problem with that, you are cordially invited to eat your own words and do better.
P.S. Dreadnought the MMO looks to be everything STO PvP was not. I'm taking responsibility for my fun by going there. If you wanna find me on the their forums, the name's Spork.
AHAHAHAHAH and this is why this thread failed at the very beginning.
I personally never did VPvP, wasn't my cup of tea. I never used broken and unbalanced cheese anyway because getting kills thanks to a console hardly proves what I'm capable of and I had already proved several times I could take on 2 players of equal gear to me at the same time. I was after bigger fish and always chased after stronger opponents, even ones that used cheese, to improve my skills (it's where I learned the value of the BFI Ram). I respect what VPvP stood for and its success (100+ people is success Beameddown). But today the problem isn't just cryptic, it's the players left in PvP. Players that have always thrived using broken gear to compete because they know they don't have the balls and the skills to win otherwise. These players are driving away the last few loyal PvPers.
The solution however is simple, don't rage quit, gang up on these players in a queue or Ker'rat on sight and don't assist them if they're on your team.
Or a tactic that I've used in C&H is, if they come for you and you're on your own, drag them into a ball of players and watch them try to fight then.
Then specs, paid Boff powers, and upgrades blew that all to hell. Granted, one can theoretically grind out the paid stuff, but it takes stupid lengths of time to have anything beyond a single setup.
Specs now are almost exactly what they said they wanted to avoid when limiting the number of rep abilities slottable.
Add that to the issues the game already had rendering all those different abilities, and well......
I was always casual, monkeying around with setups, never sticking with one long enough to optimize it, resulting in a small collection of lockbox ships, fleet ships, playing with blue MkXI when everyone rocked purple MkXII. I still had several wonky ideas I was hoping to get round to sometime, but then I lost my drive. It just didn't seem worth it anymore.
I'm still in STO, but just as a space-Barbie-theme park player. Look at the pretty colours, swoop through space and play an episode. That's about all it feels good for. The very essence of being all dressed up with nowhere to go.
To everyone else:
Since it doesn't look like we're going anywhere... Well, we are going somewhere. Alarmingly fast, actually. But since we're not busy other than that, here's a couple of facts.
He's not just a regular moron. He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation, working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron who ever lived... [...]
Quoting GLaDOS, not my words. (Click above sentences for original audio).
Just logged in to say this:
Beameddown no offence but... This is by far mind numbing stupidest set of sentences you ever wrote.
-You are seriously suggesting to people that want to PvP to do PvE to do PvP.
(after hundreds of hours doing mindnumbing useless grind which you call "in no time")
- You are shifting responsibility for failure of STO PvP and failure of STO in general to players and letting developers of the hook.
-make effort to have fun? take responsibility to have fun? take responsibility to enjoy a GAME?? WTF, are you able to even read what you are writing.
Who are you talking to anyway?
fkn hell, MMOs rot peoples minds it seems.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
At least I don't have to resort on capital wording in every sentence, overabudance of capital "LOL"s, or keep on writing threads that are plain madness. If you can't still get it after everyone else's comments... well let's just say that I have the decency to not call brain damaged someone.
And sharx literally stole my words. Having to work to enjoy a game and supporting that idea is outright and plain stupid. Which brings us back to the above:
You don't need to aim, you're using beams!
You don't need to time you're attacks, embassy consoles will do that for you!
Having a little trouble with that cruiser? Well here's kemocite and resonance beam!
This has allowed every idiot to buy his way into a match and rub it in the faces of everyone who earn't the right to call themselves a good PvPer or Veteran if you like. Back then you had to earn the respect of players with skill, combat prowess and teamwork. Now it's a facerolling fest of Noobs that can't fight without their toys and cry the moment something is nerfed (and believe me they will when the aforementioned get 'balanced').
I still go out and queue for C&H and I'm often in OPvP asking for people to join the queue hoping for a clean match which I get sometimes. And when someone turns up with their Lag-Fail-Build I simply drag them to the nearest Fed/Klink ball and watch them dance.
Private matches however is something that is hardly going to start now. It'll be like trying to wean a child off sweets and candy. These new PvPers won't want to fight without their toys and broken builds because they know they won't stand a chance against people who were rocking out pre-DR and especially pre-LoR. They're not interested in a 10-15min battle of wits, stamina and skill. They want a 5 second fight and then move on to the next 5 second fight.
Things will change again though. Just like LoR changed the game and people thought it was the end and it ended up with season 8.5 being one of the best for PvP, because everyone got used to the equipment and things reached a semi-balanced state, and similarly this season will too end. Players will reach an equilibrium of gear and specialisations and then there won't be any light or cracks for the lag noobs to use as an exploit. It'll be similar to the submarine warfare we experienced before DR and LoR. And finally we'll start seeing the word "HAX" being repeated in OPvP and Ker'rat.
That's just being objective.
(edited for more accurate STO picture)
haha that is actually funny