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Customization & Tailor restrictions – Role-Player’s perspective

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  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    Actually... that skirt has no reason to be restricted to any faction. Yes, keep the 'iconic' apparels like uniforms locked to factions if need be. But, when an item can be made look as generic clothing, such as this skirt in question? No reason for it to be locked, in an off-duty outfits. Keep the faction uniforms, which are 'iconic' to that faction to them, but... again, other stuff, let people have it, I'd imagine. Too much? I personally don't think so. But, generic outfits, that's not even breaking any "faction walls"...

    And that is something I can agree with. That has been my stance always. At least my key sticking point. Those uniforms are a big part of what it means to be a part of that faction/race.

    More generic outfits to be used in off-duty is ok with me.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    dareau wrote: »
    protogoth wrote: »
    dareau wrote: »

    Did you really read my post?

    TL-DR version: "Swimwear" Category = everything in tailor. "Off Duty" = everything but Risa only Swimsuits. "Uniform" = what's there right now.

    In those handful of "militarisitc duty areas" like Commander's Office areas, etc., the uniform restriction would be implemented. Slot would have to be reserved to allow said restriction to function, but right off the top of my head it is so restricted already.

    Everywhere else is fair game for off duty, aka "everything but Risa Swimwear, at once if so desired.

    More for you to read below...

    My posts were mostly not aimed at you, more at people like rosetyler51, who are keen on restricting stuff for, as you said "mah immersion". Your proposal is still much better off than what some people seem to be entitled about, in terms of dictating what characters of others are "supposed" to wear, for these people's version of "mah immersion"...

    I'm insanely petty and you mocked me...by missing my point by a mile. neato

    This was the point where I would try again to get it through your skull that what I'm "fighting" for but much like the borg this thread has worn me down to the point where I simply don't care. You have adapted so time for the next part. Assimilate, take what you out of three factions I truly care for and cast aside what goes again your "Trek". I will do as you have ordered and put on my blinders.


    "All a story needs is someone to tell it and someone to listen. When everyone seeks to tell a story at once this simple rule is broken."
    -Wisdom of a Fool

    PS: I always try to end on a smile so a joke. Borg and Romulans working together. That was quick. I thought it would take at least a year before Star Empire is back.

    I have read this thread all the way through, but perhaps I missed something. Where did anyone suggest taking anything they want from all three factions? Is someone asking for Fed players to have access to KHG? For KDF players to have access to MACO? For either to have access to my glorious TOS Romulan minidress or the Romulan Republic 1/2 uniforms? For RRF players to be allowed to wear TOS Starfleet uniforms? I haven't seen that. Are you perhaps again engaging in Slippery Slope fallacy, or is this Bifurcation fallacy along the lines of "all or nothing"?

    Between your and Miss Darkrider's posts that is how I took this so called "freedom". Doing away with all faction ties in the tailor. And that is what I don't want to happen. I will say this once again. The system is broken but it was put there for a reason. To give choosing a faction a sense of meaning.

    That why I'm in this thread and that is what I want to protect.
    626OfBi.jpg
    A nice example of groan-inducing NPC, with outfit we can’t mix & match.

    If I'm not mistaken, this "character" is wearing the Feddie ToS Fem Top and a RR Skirt, with flower accents.

    As such, I can see how Rosetyler "thought" that part and parcel of this thread includes "tearing down the faction walls".

    However, this image is the only place, to the best of my memory of what I've read in this thread, that a stunt like that occured. At least until I came in and posted my "everything in tailor" thoughts...

    I "automatically factored" that these "mergers / reclassifications" would be built off of the current availability schemes so no Feds in KDF clothes or Gorns in Orion String-kinis. However, without the clarity and this picture floating around out there, I can see the confusion...

    So let's make this "officially-official":

    Are we OK with taking a character's "entire outfit accessibility" and placing it in the "swimwear" tab, removing only the Risa-only swimsuits for the "off duty" tab, and leaving the current uniform accessibility alone? Then making the "command" areas of the various bases "uniform only" regions, while the remainder of the game world is accessible to "off duty" outfits...​​

    The top in that screenie is a TOS (not ToS, please, please, please; "The Original Series" is TOS, while ToS is "Terms of Service") female top, yes. But no, it's not Feddie. It's a TOS Mirror Universe female top. And yes, the skirt is a Romulan skirt, from Virinat, prior to Virinat being attacked and survivors joining the Republic.

    But as jodarkrider said, there's really no reason for that skirt to be faction-restricted. It's not a uniform piece (officially, it's called "Formal" in the Tailor, unless they've changed the name, and since my RRF characters can wear the usual Formalwear, I don't see any reason to restrict that particular skirt to RRF only; it's certainly not something I remember seeing in canon, although maybe I should rewatch "Unification" parts 1 and 2, which are the only place I recall seeing any non-politician Romulan civilians in civilian attire). And the top there, while certainly part of the Imperial Starfleet uniform in the 2260s, is a fairly generic cropped fitted tank top (heck, these days, you could probably get away with calling it a "sports bra"), which is a. not the exclusive purview of any particular faction, and b. absolutely NOT a Federation Starfleet uniform piece. That said, it is something which must be purchased in the C-store (I have it myself) and there was a swimwear top introduced this year which is very similar in appearance, which can be worn with robe pants in an off-duty slot, and which I suspect could likewise be worn with a skirt.
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,389 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Actually... that skirt has no reason to be restricted to any faction. Yes, keep the 'iconic' apparels like uniforms locked to factions if need be. But, when an item can be made look as generic clothing, such as this skirt in question? No reason for it to be locked, in an off-duty outfits. Keep the faction uniforms, which are 'iconic' to that faction to them, but... again, other stuff, let people have it, I'd imagine. Too much? I personally don't think so. But, generic outfits, that's not even breaking any "faction walls"...

    Where do we draw the line? A lot of the "iconic" apparels are nothing more than "stock" clothes with some sort of "tweak" to make them part of the uniform...

    You could reclassify just about every bottom option - Basically everything but the bottoms of "one piece" outfits like the TOS Rommie and TOS Nurse dresses, and the TNG bottoms due to their weird cut for the feet.

    Quite a few tops would qualify as well. Besides the earlier depicted Mirror Female "sports bra / bikini top", TOS Medical = T-shirt. TOS and whatever they call the KDF's "TOS" tops are "long sleeve t-shirts". Add a bit of an exotic twist, and the TOS male mirror top can be a leather jacket with ascot. KDF also can contribute shirts and fur coats with vests over them.

    "Artificial" as it may be, but uniforms would have to be taken as either "faction restricted" just because it fits someone's "style", or you are advocating a complete blow-up of the tailor system and everyone can wear anything.

    Do note - I'm not "taking sides" on this matter yet. I'm getting a better feel for where you stand on this particular issue...​​
    Post edited by dareau on
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,389 Arc User
    protogoth wrote: »
    dareau wrote: »
    protogoth wrote: »
    dareau wrote: »

    Did you really read my post?

    TL-DR version: "Swimwear" Category = everything in tailor. "Off Duty" = everything but Risa only Swimsuits. "Uniform" = what's there right now.

    In those handful of "militarisitc duty areas" like Commander's Office areas, etc., the uniform restriction would be implemented. Slot would have to be reserved to allow said restriction to function, but right off the top of my head it is so restricted already.

    Everywhere else is fair game for off duty, aka "everything but Risa Swimwear, at once if so desired.

    More for you to read below...

    My posts were mostly not aimed at you, more at people like rosetyler51, who are keen on restricting stuff for, as you said "mah immersion". Your proposal is still much better off than what some people seem to be entitled about, in terms of dictating what characters of others are "supposed" to wear, for these people's version of "mah immersion"...

    I'm insanely petty and you mocked me...by missing my point by a mile. neato

    This was the point where I would try again to get it through your skull that what I'm "fighting" for but much like the borg this thread has worn me down to the point where I simply don't care. You have adapted so time for the next part. Assimilate, take what you out of three factions I truly care for and cast aside what goes again your "Trek". I will do as you have ordered and put on my blinders.


    "All a story needs is someone to tell it and someone to listen. When everyone seeks to tell a story at once this simple rule is broken."
    -Wisdom of a Fool

    PS: I always try to end on a smile so a joke. Borg and Romulans working together. That was quick. I thought it would take at least a year before Star Empire is back.

    I have read this thread all the way through, but perhaps I missed something. Where did anyone suggest taking anything they want from all three factions? Is someone asking for Fed players to have access to KHG? For KDF players to have access to MACO? For either to have access to my glorious TOS Romulan minidress or the Romulan Republic 1/2 uniforms? For RRF players to be allowed to wear TOS Starfleet uniforms? I haven't seen that. Are you perhaps again engaging in Slippery Slope fallacy, or is this Bifurcation fallacy along the lines of "all or nothing"?

    Between your and Miss Darkrider's posts that is how I took this so called "freedom". Doing away with all faction ties in the tailor. And that is what I don't want to happen. I will say this once again. The system is broken but it was put there for a reason. To give choosing a faction a sense of meaning.

    That why I'm in this thread and that is what I want to protect.
    626OfBi.jpg
    A nice example of groan-inducing NPC, with outfit we can’t mix & match.

    If I'm not mistaken, this "character" is wearing the Feddie ToS Fem Top and a RR Skirt, with flower accents.

    As such, I can see how Rosetyler "thought" that part and parcel of this thread includes "tearing down the faction walls".

    However, this image is the only place, to the best of my memory of what I've read in this thread, that a stunt like that occured. At least until I came in and posted my "everything in tailor" thoughts...

    I "automatically factored" that these "mergers / reclassifications" would be built off of the current availability schemes so no Feds in KDF clothes or Gorns in Orion String-kinis. However, without the clarity and this picture floating around out there, I can see the confusion...

    So let's make this "officially-official":

    Are we OK with taking a character's "entire outfit accessibility" and placing it in the "swimwear" tab, removing only the Risa-only swimsuits for the "off duty" tab, and leaving the current uniform accessibility alone? Then making the "command" areas of the various bases "uniform only" regions, while the remainder of the game world is accessible to "off duty" outfits...

    The top in that screenie is a TOS (not ToS, please, please, please; "The Original Series" is TOS, while ToS is "Terms of Service") female top, yes. But no, it's not Feddie. It's a TOS Mirror Universe female top. And yes, the skirt is a Romulan skirt, from Virinat, prior to Virinat being attacked and survivors joining the Republic.

    But as jodarkrider said, there's really no reason for that skirt to be faction-restricted. It's not a uniform piece (officially, it's called "Formal" in the Tailor, unless they've changed the name, and since my RRF characters can wear the usual Formalwear, I don't see any reason to restrict that particular skirt to RRF only; it's certainly not something I remember seeing in canon, although maybe I should rewatch "Unification" parts 1 and 2, which are the only place I recall seeing any non-politician Romulan civilians in civilian attire). And the top there, while certainly part of the Imperial Starfleet uniform in the 2260s, is a fairly generic cropped fitted tank top (heck, these days, you could probably get away with calling it a "sports bra"), which is a. not the exclusive purview of any particular faction, and b. absolutely NOT a Federation Starfleet uniform piece. That said, it is something which must be purchased in the C-store (I have it myself) and there was a swimwear top introduced this year which is very similar in appearance, which can be worn with robe pants in an off-duty slot, and which I suspect could likewise be worn with a skirt.

    Actually, I popped in-game to test, and since I don't have any Fem RR characters, I popped on one of my RR characters and took one of his BOffs to the tailor and checked what she could wear.

    That exact skirt shown up on her when I picked "Romulan Civilian" under skirts. Almost that exact same color...

    Since BOffs can't wear "off duty", that skirt is considered a "uniform" piece by at least one part of the game. Can't say if it's also a "formal" option for the RR or not...​​
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    "A complete blow-up of the tailor system and everyone can wear anything" sounds pretty awesome to me. That's what they have in Champions Online and it works.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    "A complete blow-up of the tailor system and everyone can wear anything" sounds pretty awesome to me. That's what they have in Champions Online and it works.

    STO has military organizations with specific uniforms; "everyone can wear anything" won't work in this game. My main is a Romulan, and she's not in Starfleet or the Klingon Defense Force, but the Romulan Republic Forces. She does not want to wear Starfleet or KDF uniforms. I have Fed and KDF characters who can wear those.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,928 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    protogoth wrote: »
    STO has military organizations with specific uniforms; "everyone can wear anything" won't work in this game. My main is a Romulan, and she's not in Starfleet or the Klingon Defense Force, but the Romulan Republic Forces. She does not want to wear Starfleet or KDF uniforms. I have Fed and KDF characters who can wear those.

    EDIT: I decided to rephrase that:

    Costumes you made wouldn't change if only the option to use all costumes would persist. Your character wouldn't have to use those. This is always a rather thin argument against more options.

    I do however agree in principle with not making faction attire available cross-faction. Then again, nobody can honestly claim that it would change anything, we have plenty of "third faction" clothes available cross-faction and I don't know if wearing a Klingon uniform on a Fed character is any different from ahving a crew with all kinds of uniforms from different eras, colored in every imaginable way on top of the off-duty outfits we all can take into "duty" anyway.
    ​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    protogoth wrote: »
    STO has military organizations with specific uniforms; "everyone can wear anything" won't work in this game. My main is a Romulan, and she's not in Starfleet or the Klingon Defense Force, but the Romulan Republic Forces. She does not want to wear Starfleet or KDF uniforms. I have Fed and KDF characters who can wear those.

    Just because your character wouldn't want to wear it doesn't mean other should not have that possiblity, doesn't it? It's not tha the availability of costumes suddenly changes the ones you already made.

    There are reasons for and against a completely open tailor, I don't want to dive into those. But "I don't want that" is always a rather "fishy" argument.
    ​​

    The reason is:
    We're not CO. We're STO. We have three factions (sort of) which are military. Militaries have their own uniforms. They don't wear each other's uniforms.

    The comments about my characters' desires are merely elaborations on something I said earlier.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,928 Arc User
    protogoth wrote: »
    The reason is:
    We're not CO. We're STO. We have three factions (sort of) which are military. Militaries have their own uniforms. They don't wear each other's uniforms.

    The comments about my characters' desires are merely elaborations on something I said earlier.

    I decided to rephrase the posting in the meantime, I felt it sounded differently from what I was trying to say (sometimes, as a non-native speaker, I feel things I write just sound wrong). pig-1.gif

    ​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I do however agree in principle with not making faction attire available cross-faction. Then again, nobody can honestly claim that it would change anything, we have plenty of "third faction" clothes available cross-faction and I don't know if wearing a Klingon uniform armor (Personal Note: yeah, with maybe exception of bortaSqu', these 'uniforms' are not uniforms, really, canon-speaking, and bortaS is Cryptic-original) on a Fed character is any different from ahving a crew with all kinds of uniforms from different eras, colored in every imaginable way on top of the off-duty outfits we all can take into "duty" anyway.
    ​​
    Well, I won't dig into history-lesson or background of my character in any wide way, but purely, as a Roleplayer perspective of that - long story short, she has ties to a Klingon family, so she does wear the Klingon attire at times. Now, we clearly can't do that with Feddies n' stuff - and I'm not going to argue for or against unlocking all other faction outfits; as it is a bit lot of a sticky situation, granted - but, the solution for me, was to simply re-make the character on the KDF side.

    In short, if people want, they already can find a way around 'Faction' uniform restrictions, without doing anything shady. It's a bit clumsy, has it's limitations, but for the roleplaying purposes, the fact I can't run Fed missions on my KDF character & KDF missions on my Fed character - has little bearing - as it's purely aesthetical meaning for me, intended for enriching my roleplaying experience. And, I think I'm not alone who has done something similar with their characters; whenever they wanted them to display something not of their faction.

    What I'd like, is to have some sort of 'Officer exchange' mission, or reputation, or even event similar to 'Delta recruit', except, reward people for making Rom/KDF characters, by giving those rewards account-wide - both factions would gain influx of players & we roleplayers would be happy. :P, and give *some* parts cross-faction as a reward (yes, would kill for Worf sash, to display the warrior pride on my Fed uniform :(, wanted it for last year & half ), but that's a long topic for another day. (And I'm not going to be making it, kinda taking a break from ideas & these forums for most part... or trying to)
    Post edited by jodarkrider on
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,389 Arc User
    (yes, would kill for Worf sash, to display the warrior pride on my Fed uniform :(, wanted it for last year & half )

    Are you talking about the one from Worf's TNG career? It was given out as a freebie during a TNG "anniversary" event. One time deal, newer characters are stuck without... :(​​
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    dareau wrote: »
    Are you talking about the one from Worf's TNG career? It was given out as a freebie during a TNG "anniversary" event. One time deal, newer characters are stuck without... :(​​
    Yeah, that one. Or *any* Klingon Baldric (sash) they'd give us at this point; to put over the uniform. But, regarding that Worf sash, I sadly came in late 2013. It is nonsensial to keep people locked-out of things which have merely aesthetic and mostly RP value. I've always was of mindset 'let us get things'... they seem to often push in completelly opposite direction, even when it's such trivial matter such as this.

    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    protogoth wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    protogoth wrote: »
    STO has military organizations with specific uniforms; "everyone can wear anything" won't work in this game. My main is a Romulan, and she's not in Starfleet or the Klingon Defense Force, but the Romulan Republic Forces. She does not want to wear Starfleet or KDF uniforms. I have Fed and KDF characters who can wear those.

    Just because your character wouldn't want to wear it doesn't mean other should not have that possiblity, doesn't it? It's not tha the availability of costumes suddenly changes the ones you already made.

    There are reasons for and against a completely open tailor, I don't want to dive into those. But "I don't want that" is always a rather "fishy" argument.
    ​​

    The reason is:
    We're not CO. We're STO. We have three factions (sort of) which are military. Militaries have their own uniforms. They don't wear each other's uniforms.

    The comments about my characters' desires are merely elaborations on something I said earlier.
    Except we don't have uniforms. A uniform means everyone wearing the same thing. We have large mix-and-match wardrobes that are arbitrarily split into a few mutually-exclusive categories for no good reason. The restrictions are lame and get in the way of my creativity, but they don't stop me from showin up for duty in a pink bathrobe if I want to.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    warpangel wrote: »
    protogoth wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    protogoth wrote: »
    STO has military organizations with specific uniforms; "everyone can wear anything" won't work in this game. My main is a Romulan, and she's not in Starfleet or the Klingon Defense Force, but the Romulan Republic Forces. She does not want to wear Starfleet or KDF uniforms. I have Fed and KDF characters who can wear those.

    Just because your character wouldn't want to wear it doesn't mean other should not have that possiblity, doesn't it? It's not tha the availability of costumes suddenly changes the ones you already made.

    There are reasons for and against a completely open tailor, I don't want to dive into those. But "I don't want that" is always a rather "fishy" argument.
    ​​

    The reason is:
    We're not CO. We're STO. We have three factions (sort of) which are military. Militaries have their own uniforms. They don't wear each other's uniforms.

    The comments about my characters' desires are merely elaborations on something I said earlier.
    Except we don't have uniforms. A uniform means everyone wearing the same thing. We have large mix-and-match wardrobes that are arbitrarily split into a few mutually-exclusive categories for no good reason. The restrictions are lame and get in the way of my creativity, but they don't stop me from showin up for duty in a pink bathrobe if I want to.

    Class A Service uniform, Class B Duty uniform, Day Dress uniform, Evening Dress uniform, ... and that's not even getting into the variations on combat uniforms, for which I have instead a picture:

    AirForceCommendationMedalRibbon.jpg

    Clearly, even within the concept of "uniform," there are variations. The only concern is whether those variations be "regulation" or no.
  • wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Hmm, so maybe we're not as hopelessly opposed as we thought? I'm certainly not in favour of letting people wear each others' factions' uniforms, either. What I'm thinking of, and what JoDarkrider, Protogoth etc. seem to be thinking of, is letting people mix their *own* uniform with off-duty parts.
    protogoth wrote: »
    And is ESD a military headquarters? It's a spacedock. Diplomatic affairs have been held there. Traders and merchants go there. Mercenaries who work for Starfleet go there. Does it have military facilities? Of course. Does it have a military commander? Obviously. But is it, per se, a military headquarters? I have my doubts. It's a spacedock for Earth. If it were a military headquarters, surely it would named something like "Starfleet Command Spacedock" or "Starfleet Command Headquarters."

    It's absolutely not. You misread my post - I was saying that the military headquarters *in* ESD, i.e. Quinn's office and the "Ops" area immediately around it, should be uniform-only. I agree, the rest of ESD always comes across to me as one of the *most* "relaxed" areas of the game and certainly somewhere that would always be full of civilians, and Starfleeters coming off duty. Looks a bit like a motorway service station, if you have those in America.
    protogoth wrote: »
    wombat140 wrote: »
    I mean, we already have some costumes restricted by area - the Clubs for the Club Wear and Risa for the Swimwear. How do you know it's more difficult, have you been involved in this kind of programming? (I haven't so I wouldn't know.)

    And yet, you can wear Clubwear all over ESD, not just in Club 47.

    Just checked the relevant dev blog and you're right. My mistake. So it's possible that there really isn't a mechanism for what I was suggesting about making only certain parts of ESD uniform-only.
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    wombat140 wrote: »
    Hmm, so maybe we're not as hopelessly opposed as we thought? I'm certainly not in favour of letting people wear each others' factions' uniforms, either. What I'm thinking of, and what JoDarkrider, Protogoth etc. seem to be thinking of, is letting people mix their *own* uniform with off-duty parts.
    Pretty much, in its' most simple form, yeah.

    But to make sort of TL;DR of my OP - please note ALL of the features, with the exception of the free-color palettes are already possible, within the game mechanics, so no additional work for devs, aside of letting us access them, in a legit way:

    Giving us outfits we don't have access to, even though some of our BOFFs do. Many examples of that are in the game.

    Letting us mix & match the reputation armors, and uniform parts & off-duty pieces, as we see fit, at least in off-duty slot, if devs want 'clean' uniform slot, etc. No reason it's not possible. The game mechanics for it exist. Except - restricted to *us*. Foundry itself has this function, when you can do this.

    Letting us use currently unavailable (=hidden, restricted to our use) functions of the tailor, such as 'face preset', letting us set akin a mood of the character.

    No restricting of any hairstyle, because of species & gender. As long as the species can biologically grow hair, it should be a fair game.

    Unlocked & properly purchased features should be useable on every character & our BOFFs (as long as it's account unlock), no matter the species. (Again, that includes non-biological features, such as Borg implants)

    Letting Alien-Gen folks use even the biological-parts of Species they bought over C-Store. After all, it's supposed to be 'Alien'; no reason to restrict even biological pieces in any form here, I'd imagine that could make it interesting for AlienGen people to purchase the C-store species, to enrich their AlienGen character.

    Freeing & unifying of the color-palettes - that's not in the OP, but mentioning, as people expressed interest in it & I think it'd be neat. No reason to limit the color palettes, because of faction.

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  • aliendejouraliendejour Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth.

    Physical Parts
    Species-specific physical parts should stay mostly species specific. What I mean by 'mostly' is that non-facial elements (tails, claw feet) should be open to Alien-Gen characters. This expands options for more alien aliens but still keeps cannon species unique.

    Clothing
    It seems necessary to keep some clothing categories, but condense them down to just three categories.
    • Uniform - This would only contain faction specific uniforms and stay open to characters and boffs as it is now.
    • Off-Duty - This would be the largest category as it would hold everything that's not in the other two categories. I think as many things should be in this one as could be reasonably justified to allow RP'r mix-matching. Off-Duty should also be opened to both characters and boffs.
    • Off-Duty, Restricted - This would be for outfits that are location restricted. Logically this would only be open to characters since boffs aren't used in the areas with restrictions. (Personally, I'm not big on location restrictions but, let's be honest, they're a necessary compromise to get some outfits in the game - i.e. swimsuits)

    The idea is to let factions and species keep some unique aspects without creating an unnecessary number of restrictions.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    Just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth.

    Physical Parts
    Species-specific physical parts should stay mostly species specific. What I mean by 'mostly' is that non-facial elements (tails, claw feet) should be open to Alien-Gen characters. This expands options for more alien aliens but still keeps cannon species unique.

    Clothing
    It seems necessary to keep some clothing categories, but condense them down to just three categories.
    • Uniform - This would only contain faction specific uniforms and stay open to characters and boffs as it is now.
    • Off-Duty - This would be the largest category as it would hold everything that's not in the other two categories. I think as many things should be in this one as could be reasonably justified to allow RP'r mix-matching. Off-Duty should also be opened to both characters and boffs.
    • Off-Duty, Restricted - This would be for outfits that are location restricted. Logically this would only be open to characters since boffs aren't used in the areas with restrictions. (Personally, I'm not big on location restrictions but, let's be honest, they're a necessary compromise to get some outfits in the game - i.e. swimsuits)

    The idea is to let factions and species keep some unique aspects without creating an unnecessary number of restrictions.

    I'm ok with this.
  • bltrrnbltrrn Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    I know this has been requested before, but a plug for Starfleet service ribbons, as part of a more complete uniform.
    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

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  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    As it stands currently, I don't grind for Rep armors, simply because Fleet equipment is pretty much superior in every way when it comes to ground items.

    BUT: If you could Mix/Match pieces from the different sets, I'd be ALL over that shizzle!!! Voth Helmet with Maco Armor...Sweet! There's all sorts of fun combos one could do. I mean, why not also just make the armor pieces from the set a "visualization" unlock. I mean, if you like the look of the Undine armor but like the specs of the Fleet armor, why not have the options for that costume once you purchase it?

    But in the current idiom, I don't even bother. To that end, I agree with the OP: reduce barriers, increase options. Also, open up ALL pieces to sub-palettes and textures.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,928 Arc User
    (...) I mean, if you like the look of the Undine armor but like the specs of the Fleet armor, why not have the options for that costume once you purchase it?
    (...)

    You can actually do that. If you complete a rep armour set you unlock the tailor options for your character and all your boffs unaffected by what actual armour you wear. You cannot mix and match, however, as the rep armours use their own "uniform" category.​​
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  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    To that end, I agree with the OP: reduce barriers, increase options. Also, open up ALL pieces to sub-palettes and textures.
    That has been an intent of the OP, along with them unlocking currently unavailable outfits AND features in the tailor, which *are* there - we just aren't allowed to use them. Unfortunately, it seems to be an ongoing trend for now - to cater to people who want to dictate their perception of 'immersion' onto the rest of us; despite of most people wanting to make Trek-friendly costumes anyways.

    And yet, nobody sees it as groan inducing to see dozen of Krenim-Weapon Ships parked at ESD. Because I guarantee you, that is more 'immersion' breaking than couple of clothes on a character. (For the record, I don't care what OTHERS wear or fly - I only pinpoint it for the absurdity and lack of logic).
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  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    angrytarg wrote: »
    (...) I mean, if you like the look of the Undine armor but like the specs of the Fleet armor, why not have the options for that costume once you purchase it?
    (...)

    You can actually do that. If you complete a rep armour set you unlock the tailor options for your character and all your boffs unaffected by what actual armour you wear. You cannot mix and match, however, as the rep armours use their own "uniform" category.​​

    Not being able to Mix/Match is lame. I know they need to keep some costume options "exclusive' for NPCs, but that's just silly.

    Also, I can has a costume unlock for my Chromodynamic armor plz?
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    To that end, I agree with the OP: reduce barriers, increase options. Also, open up ALL pieces to sub-palettes and textures.

    And yet, nobody sees it as groan inducing to see dozen of Krenim-Weapon Ships parked at ESD. Because I guarantee you, that is more 'immersion' breaking than couple of clothes on a character. (For the record, I don't care what OTHERS wear or fly - I only pinpoint it for the absurdity and lack of logic).

    I agree with what you say - the "immersion" thing has long since gone: It's Jurassic Spacehip Park now, so why keep the uniforms limited? It's already barbie Dress Up time...might as well go all-in.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • xepthrixepthri Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    They should make a new player Faction called Borg Cooperative full of liberated Borg.
    In addition to Cardassian and Dominion factions.
    Maybe even a Ferengi faction that unlocks once one of your character hits 1 billion GPL, or if you have a Ferengi Federation character, you have an option to quit and join the Ferengi once he is high leveled, but at the cost of access to Fed ships...
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    xepthri wrote: »
    They should make a new player Faction called Borg Cooperative full of liberated Borg.
    In addition to Cardassian and Dominion factions.
    Maybe even a Ferengi faction that unlocks once one of your character hits 1 billion GPL, or if you have a Ferengi Federation character, you have an option to quit and join the Ferengi once he is high leveled, but at the cost of access to Fed ships...

    That's a bit off-topic for this thread (and this forum). And, to be blunt, what "they" should do is bring the KDF and RRF up to par with the darling Feds before they even consider adding a fourth faction/fraction/half-faction/pseudo-faction/whatever.
  • xepthrixepthri Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    The thread "Can Players Wear This" had a series of pictures from the Delta Rising story arc that reminded me of something else to consider; 'time-locked' costumes like the TNG 25th Anniversary sash for Federation characters or the Kobali uniform that was only available during the STO 5th Anniversary event. I don't know about anyone else, but those make me feel as if I'm being punished for not being a player until after the TNG 25th or for not being able to play during the STO 5th due to other considerations.
    That is another good example. I've always wanted the TNG Worf-sash, since late 2013, when I began playing the game, again, surprisingly, for in-character reasons. I'd pay even up to 1k Zen for that. Having possibilities to obtain things, should be encouraged. Players should not be permanently locked out of obtaining things, like aesthetic/artistic assets.


    The limited-time costumes, and even limited-time ships... to me, make little sense. I heard somewhere that they want to give a player 'bragging rights'?
    More like give players a reason to quit.

    First-time player loads up STO. "Hmmm... I wanna be a Ferengi. Let's see what we can do here. Oh cool, Ferengi in the Federation! Now.. ships. Oh there's the TV ship available from a lock box. That's tough to get. I'll have to work on the exchange I guess. Ok, what else is there? Nandine warship? Tier 6? Didn't see it in the shows but it looks Ferengi enough... Wait, only available during that special event, and never again? What? Darn it. Ok I am done. Uninstalling."


    And I am sure the sentiment may be shared by returning players who may have missed some events too. Yeah sure, okay, the item was a 'free reward' during that event. But at least let players still buy it afterwards with cash, i.e. ZEN, or near-cash related currencies like Lobi.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    xepthri wrote: »
    The thread "Can Players Wear This" had a series of pictures from the Delta Rising story arc that reminded me of something else to consider; 'time-locked' costumes like the TNG 25th Anniversary sash for Federation characters or the Kobali uniform that was only available during the STO 5th Anniversary event. I don't know about anyone else, but those make me feel as if I'm being punished for not being a player until after the TNG 25th or for not being able to play during the STO 5th due to other considerations.
    That is another good example. I've always wanted the TNG Worf-sash, since late 2013, when I began playing the game, again, surprisingly, for in-character reasons. I'd pay even up to 1k Zen for that. Having possibilities to obtain things, should be encouraged. Players should not be permanently locked out of obtaining things, like aesthetic/artistic assets.


    The limited-time costumes, and even limited-time ships... to me, make little sense. I heard somewhere that they want to give a player 'bragging rights'?
    More like give players a reason to quit.

    First-time player loads up STO. "Hmmm... I wanna be a Ferengi. Let's see what we can do here. Oh cool, Ferengi in the Federation! Now.. ships. Oh there's the TV ship available from a lock box. That's tough to get. I'll have to work on the exchange I guess. Ok, what else is there? Nandine warship? Tier 6? Didn't see it in the shows but it looks Ferengi enough... Wait, only available during that special event, and never again? What? Darn it. Ok I am done. Uninstalling."


    And I am sure the sentiment may be shared by returning players who may have missed some events too. Yeah sure, okay, the item was a 'free reward' during that event. But at least let players still buy it afterwards with cash, i.e. ZEN, or near-cash related currencies like Lobi.

    True. As a collector-type, permanently removed items are a big no-no for me. It's unfortunately so common in MMOs that I usually see little point in starting a game at all if it's been running for years already. STO didn't used to be that bad, but its been getting worse. I certainly wouldn't start playing anymore now, if I was new.
  • elvnswordselvnswords Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I think the primary fix to this concern would be, imho, to allow for more customization as OP has suggested, but issue out a Uniform Guide with each major update (like Delta Rising, the Iconian War, and the new upcoming update) which states what the core Federation NPCs will be wearing with this update. Perhaps even give a small bonus to players for matching the uniform code on things like Jacket, Pants, Belt and Shoes. This could easilly be expanded on to include a few uniform choices, with various rewards.

    The Standard Uniform would give a chance for a skill point bonus, or minor salvage box, or the currently active Reputation Mark (Iconian right now for example) at the end of any given mission.

    The Reputation Armors when worn to code would give a chance for (50/50?) to drop a small amount of the given Reputation Mark. (MACO = Borg Rep for example), putting more armor on a team would increase the mark payout for every member. (Everyone in MACO armor = 100% drop rate 3 of 5 = 80% drop rate)

    This would add a reward to those who want to wear the "canon" armors and have a canon look (which the Devs seem to want to encourage), but let the rest of us who want to be creative get creative.

    If they really wanted to make this work well, wearing a Fleet Uniform (as set by the Fleet Command for your fleet) could drop fleet marks same as above. Then we can make a uniform and make it the "canon" uniform of our fleet. There is a built in penalty for those who don't participate and nothingi but reward (albiet minor reward) for those who choose too.

    Edit to Add: I too would purchase the Limited Time items from the store, or work to earn them now, if they were made available. Limiting off part of the population creates have and have nots, and that isn't fun or good.

    The only way this kind of thing works is with costume packs available to EVERYONE in the store. Then your haves and have nots are still equal, just seperated by willingness to buy.
  • rllaillieurllaillieu Member Posts: 351 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    So, I've gone over everything on this thread, for the sake of argument, and I am in total agreement with the OP. I, personally and as a roleplayer, hate the fact that I can't have the options that I want. If I want my Fed Joined Trill to tool around ESD in a mostly-Jupiter outfit with an undershirt for the sake of RP, why can't I? Why can't my Rom wander around the Staging Area and the other parts of Mol'Rihan in a uniform jacket with a formal skirt? Why can't my Joined Trill KDF officer lollygag around First City in some of the stock clothes that Feds can get their hands on? I understand the swimsuits on Risa thing, I understand the faction uniform thing, but off-duty and etc being restricted? [modded], completely. I want the option to have my Fed Vulcan in that Romulan Civilian skirt, because it's cute. I want the option to make my characters look however I want them to and I want that option for other players. That's my two cents on the matter at hand.
This discussion has been closed.