...
Yes, I have the ships, so maybe my perspective is off. But I've missed limited time/exclusive items in other games, without it being the end of the world. Or thinking that it's "bad for the game"
...
It is bad for the game because there are fewer people to play with. More people have been quiting and even getting groups in the DPS channels is pretty slow now.
This change does NOTHING to retain players. The absolute best case you can get from this change is neutral to player numbers. The problem is that we don't have the best case, we have a less than best case and a change that is negative towards player numbers. If I don't have as many people to play with why log in? If I don't log in why should others login to play etc etc.
I want to see the game do well and I don't like seeing changes that does nothing to encourage people to stay.
That's the thing. The C-store ships are always there. The Risian event ships are not always going to be there.
they should be, at least during the events.
there already are sort-of-unique super special things out there, like lockbox ships and promotional ships
the event stuff should be left alone, or occasionally added to.
I remember the first time I saw the chell, in the undine "space" battlezone. I actually sent the guy at tell excitedly asking what it was. I was equally excited to get it during the event. To use it and to collect it, like adding it to a collection.
It's just that these threads are all acting like this is some out-of-nowhere, incomprehensible, how-could-any-dev-think-this-is-ok, slap to the face. Rather than something that's happened in games, regularly, for over a decade. I'm completely baffled that people are so taken aback by this.
It's just that these threads are all acting like this is some out-of-nowhere, incomprehensible, how-could-any-dev-think-this-is-ok, slap to the face. Rather than something that's happened in games, regularly, for over a decade. I'm completely baffled that people are so taken aback by this.
It is from out of nowhere, Cryptic has never retired event ships before. That's the point.
If this was something Cryptic has been doing for the last 5 years, I probably wouldn't bat an eyelash, but this is a recent thing they've done.
I'm not talking about other games that do this. I'm talking about Star Trek Online. Just because other games have done this does not mean that it is morally or ethically correct. I feel the same way about lockboxes, for instance.
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right. I think it is disrespectful that they throw months of work out the window for no apparent reason. But I don't think it's the end of the world or the end of the game or anything.
I'm just disappointed, that's all. I'll enjoy the Risian summer event regardless, lag and rubberbanding not withstanding.
If Cryptic wasn't always harping on "Well, our time is limited and developer hours are valuable, that's why we don't do X or Y...", maybe I wouldn't be bringing this up.
If Cryptic says their labor hours are valuable, they should prove it.
But if they're going to remove content instead of adding it. Instead of preserving it -- then that sends the opposite message to, "Hey, our developer time is limited and valuable, be patient!"
Personally, I think they should have told people before this event, but given people this event to get things unlocked, in the knowledge that things will be changing after.
This is how I feel too. I'm hoping I have these slotted somewhere, but I don't think I did.
If developer time is valuable, then the things they create are valuable.
If the things they create are valuable, then they should be regarded as valuable.
OK, and for arguments sake, what if they are viewed by the Devs as ... , "by next month you won't be wanting this , you'll be wanting something else " ?
'Cuz that's pretty much what came out of Taco, when ppl were asking last year for a bridge for the Risian liner that we could see from the outside of the ship .
... we already had a tweet from Zero about certain Devs thinking that the missions that were removed were "s#it" , and the tone of Taco's response above seems to project an idea that their players are a bit fickle , and only the new ship holds our interest for a limited time . This isn't a right vs wrong issue . Just a combination of perceptions and interests . Right now Cryptic has an interest to drum up their event ships as a "get'em while they're hot! " . You can choose to play along or not ...
What is more desirable, being the designer for a limited edition ship envied by many or the designer of a ship handed to every self-entitled weenie that ever said MINE! MINE!?
OK, and for arguments sake, what if they are viewed by the Devs as ... , "by next month you won't be wanting this , you'll be wanting something else " ?
'Cuz that's pretty much what came out of Taco, when ppl were asking last year for a bridge for the Risian liner that we could see from the outside of the ship .
... we already had a tweet from Zero about certain Devs thinking that the missions that were removed were "s#it" , and the tone of Taco's response above seems to project an idea that their players are a bit fickle , and only the new ship holds our interest for a limited time . This isn't a right vs wrong issue . Just a combination of perceptions and interests . Right now Cryptic has an interest to drum up their event ships as a "get'em while they're hot! " . You can choose to play along or not ...
Bridges and ships are not remotely the same thing. Although it is interesting the Breen bridge exists but no Risian bridge.
I have characters flying 4 out of 5 of the seasonal event ships as their main ship, personally. I happen to like them myself and while they aren't for everyone and not even for every character, one of the things you can do is switch between ships for some change of scenery and maybe experiment with it (much more palatable to do pre-DR though thanks to the upgrade nonsense now).
I feel very bad for people who won't be able to get them. The expectation was there, being able to get the old ships the next year. Changing it before letting people meet that expectation this year is just bad form, something Cryptic seems to do a lot lately. It does sour the event, and I'm sure there will be a lot of surprised and very disappointed people on Risa this year, given that most people don't read the forums or the articles even.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
It is from out of nowhere, Cryptic has never retired event ships before. That's the point.
Actually... not ENTIRELY accurate. When they released the Patrol Escort Refit, they retired the old Fleet Patrol Escort in favor of the new Fleet Patrol Escort Refit. The old FPE had the BOff layout of the Advanced Escort, while the new one I believe has one more like the Patrol Escort Refit and has the fused tailgun.
Also... the non fleet variant Ambassador and Kamarag Retrofits are not available.
Anyways... retiring the old T5 Risian ships might be because everyone is going to want the shiny T6 stuff instead of the "inferior" T5/T5U ships.
Well to be frank I am very disappointed in the ship announcement. Since the Cryptic started giving away ships there has not been a Science ship released. I know people are going to call me out about the Breen carrier and the Dyson Destroyer but these ships and not true science ships. The carrier is science based but anyone that truly plays science ships know that this is not one of them. The Dyson Destroyer is a gimmick ship, I am willing to bet most players used it in its tactical mode. While I agree that this ship could qualify it had to many gimmicks. This or any event could be used to give the Klingon and Romulan Factions a good science ship. I think Cryptic has dropped the ball and I am disappointed that we get another cookie cutter cruiser. I am going to reserve the right to change my minds based on the stats, this years ship can be a faction Scimitar equalizer (I doubt it).
Actually... not ENTIRELY accurate. When they released the Patrol Escort Refit, they retired the old Fleet Patrol Escort in favor of the new Fleet Patrol Escort Refit. The old FPE had the BOff layout of the Advanced Escort, while the new one I believe has one more like the Patrol Escort Refit and has the fused tailgun.
Anyways... retiring the old T5 Risian ships might be because everyone is going to want the shiny T6 stuff instead of the "inferior" T5/T5U ships.
I'm aware of the Fleet Escort being retired, that was the precedent that was set. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now. When I say "recent", it's meant to be relative.
There is a major difference, however. The Patrol Escort still survives in the form of the Tempest -- the Risian Corvette and Cruiser are actually gone entirely unless you got them already.
I've mentioned this point in the main thread, but it seems more on topic here: the fact that there is no new T5 or T6 Risian ships that replace the existing ships, or even some pilot escort at the very least, goes to show the sudden removal of Risian Corvette & Cruiser had no purpose whatsoever other than to make a lot of people unhappy, to say the least (see the page count for the official thread of it as evidence), and to use this to suddenly introduce some nonsensical precedent of exclusivity, possibly for the purpose of metrics alone.
I usually can see conspiracies everywhere but I can't even remotely guess any reason for removing these ships from the game.
Kill the pearls - fine. If you want the new ship you will need to get 1000 of the new currency this year for it, too. That = more participation. Why is this not desirable?
I was very much hoping for a pilot corvette. The old Risian ships are actually pretty good. The Kobali is slightly better than the luxury cruiser, but both Risian ships do just fine. In fact the special console from last year is extremely powerful.
I have no interest whatsoever in a Ferengi cruiser. If it was a pilot ship ok, but not another large ship. I would have to assume this will mean a sale on pilot ships and or a T6 defiant. If so, then okay If not, then pilot seems pretty well abandoned as well.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I've mentioned this point in the main thread, but it seems more on topic here: the fact that there is no new T5 or T6 Risian ships that replace the existing ships, or even some pilot escort at the very least, goes to show the sudden removal of Risian Corvette & Cruiser had no purpose whatsoever other than to make a lot of people unhappy, to say the least (see the page count for the official thread of it as evidence), and to use this to suddenly introduce some nonsensical precedent of exclusivity, possibly for the purpose of metrics alone.
agree
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but quite frankly, I'm still a little confused and irritated. Even though, I do understand we are playing in a "sandbox" that isn't our own, that's just how these games go.
There probably is a place in the game for special limited time ships, it's just
(A) confusing to see this whole deal announced right before the event, you take away stuff right before the event? really? right before? why not next year? give fair warning, that makes a whole lot more sense to me.
and (B) The new art is nice, essential even. But I'd like to see bug fixes more than that. Not that the art isn't great, it's great, but those are just my priorities. Which is in conflict with how things are in this game, it seems.
Im told if you have one of the Risian ships then you can get them on other chars. How? Beyond the other chars needing 40 pearls? Or is that the only way?
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Im told if you have one of the Risian ships then you can get them on other chars. How? Beyond the other chars needing 40 pearls? Or is that the only way?
If you already earned the (old) Risian Ships there is supposed to be an "Account-Unlock-Store" soon-ish ... but considering the New Blog still states the 40 Pearl Discount for the (new) Risian / Ferengi - Ship ... it's probably "not that soon" ...
PS : I'm getting some kind of mixed message here ... wait for the Account-Unlock ... or "grind" 40 Pearls on each Toon ...
I think I am just going to skip the event. This behavior of not allowing people to get old ships is bad for the game. It makes it harder for new players to join. It also means for the winter event that new players will never get the Sarr Theln and the frigate pets.
The only way to get them to change is to refuse to participate.
I know people like exclusive content but it is bad for the game in general and there is no good reason for it. You should be able to earn any previous ship with the new currency and the currency can change every year. That way people will play the event if they don't have the ships and they can't just save up for the next year.
I don't know of any other way to get them to change. Most of my friends have quit already due to various bad decisions cryptic keeps making.
so your answer to not getting old ships is to not bother getting new ships either, I fail to see the logic in this and if you think this will bother cryptic think again, the only person you will hurt is yourself.
of course if you can get every other player to boycott the event too you might stand a chance but I don't think you have much hope of that.
I won't ever understand this. This is the only MMO I have encountered where the developers routinely delete content. I have played MMOs since EQ1 and Asheron's Call and this idea of just removing content is destructive and harms the health of the game.
they are not removing the ships completely from the game, anyone who has the ships can still use them whenever they please, all they are removing is players ability to get the ships, most on line games offer special one time items like this, if you fail to get them when they are available you will never get them, I have experienced this in many on line games its nothing new.
also let me remind you they never offered past ships to players during the anniversary event if you did not get them that year you would not get them ever.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
So... essentially, all that time they spent creating those ships means nothing. Labor hours. Meetings. Payroll. All of it meaningless.
The ship was not deleted forever.
Players that have it still can use it.
That why it's overblown. The ship is not deleted from the game and no one ever can use it anymore. It's right there, in my ship selection list, I can fly it if I want, and so can countless of other players.
And Star Trek Online is not the only game with unique or time limited rewards. Star Wars for example as PvP Seasonal rewards that are unique - and worse, not everyone can even qualify for them, since the rewards are based on your ranking.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If you already earned the (old) Risian Ships there is supposed to be an "Account-Unlock-Store" soon-ish ... but considering the New Blog still states the 40 Pearl Discount for the (new) Risian / Ferengi - Ship ... it's probably "not that soon" ...
PS : I'm getting some kind of mixed message here ... wait for the Account-Unlock ... or "grind" 40 Pearls on each Toon ...
its says in the original post you only need to get the ship on one character then it automatically unlocks on all your others and for any future characters you might make.
yet to see how this works and whether its a permanent unlock or a one time claim, be sweet if its permanent so you can delete event ships if your tight on space and claim them back later.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
its says in the original post you only need to get the ship on one character then it automatically unlocks on all your others and for any future characters you might make.
yet to see how this works and whether its a perminant unlock or a one time claim.
Could have sworn it said 40 Vouchers in the "original" post ... maybe another Edit ... but nvm ...
The only thing I agree with is that it's a shame to retire art assets. Then again, the ship still remains in the game if you unlocked it once.
All the other complaints I don't understand. Those are event ships. When you aren't around for the event you don't get them. I don't get a certain concert bracelet or whatever if I don't visit the concert either. In future events there will be other and probably better ships.
They should have made them tradeable on the exchange, though. That doesn't work anymore now they turn then into reclaimable account unlocks, but being able to sell the boxed event ships would have worked (I can buy old concert shirts and stuff after all on ebay).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
All this commotion caused by people who desperately wanted to claim all the ships and wasnt playing years before... It is entirely your fault! You cant always expect to gain everything the old players got when you were not around. Besides, you are not missing anything gamebreaking, you can find close alternatives in the C-store or on the exchange from lockboxes. The unique design is a reward for people who limited time event at that time. It is normal, that is why it is called limited time event.
I dont understand the statement of wasted art either. Nothing is wasted, like you cant get Bulwark or JHAS now, those ships are only available for those who already have the ships.
On the other note, this time we are getting ferengi, not risian ship. And it is called warship so if I am not mistaken it should have 8 weapons and destroyer ship mastery package. Furthermore, because it is ferengi ship it will maybe not have set bonuses with previous consoles from risian ships in which case you will not miss on this either.
Comments
It is bad for the game because there are fewer people to play with. More people have been quiting and even getting groups in the DPS channels is pretty slow now.
This change does NOTHING to retain players. The absolute best case you can get from this change is neutral to player numbers. The problem is that we don't have the best case, we have a less than best case and a change that is negative towards player numbers. If I don't have as many people to play with why log in? If I don't log in why should others login to play etc etc.
I want to see the game do well and I don't like seeing changes that does nothing to encourage people to stay.
they should be, at least during the events.
there already are sort-of-unique super special things out there, like lockbox ships and promotional ships
the event stuff should be left alone, or occasionally added to.
I remember the first time I saw the chell, in the undine "space" battlezone. I actually sent the guy at tell excitedly asking what it was. I was equally excited to get it during the event. To use it and to collect it, like adding it to a collection.
EDIT:
this point should be driven home
It's just that these threads are all acting like this is some out-of-nowhere, incomprehensible, how-could-any-dev-think-this-is-ok, slap to the face. Rather than something that's happened in games, regularly, for over a decade. I'm completely baffled that people are so taken aback by this.
It is from out of nowhere, Cryptic has never retired event ships before. That's the point.
If this was something Cryptic has been doing for the last 5 years, I probably wouldn't bat an eyelash, but this is a recent thing they've done.
I'm not talking about other games that do this. I'm talking about Star Trek Online. Just because other games have done this does not mean that it is morally or ethically correct. I feel the same way about lockboxes, for instance.
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right. I think it is disrespectful that they throw months of work out the window for no apparent reason. But I don't think it's the end of the world or the end of the game or anything.
I'm just disappointed, that's all. I'll enjoy the Risian summer event regardless, lag and rubberbanding not withstanding.
If Cryptic wasn't always harping on "Well, our time is limited and developer hours are valuable, that's why we don't do X or Y...", maybe I wouldn't be bringing this up.
If Cryptic says their labor hours are valuable, they should prove it.
But if they're going to remove content instead of adding it. Instead of preserving it -- then that sends the opposite message to, "Hey, our developer time is limited and valuable, be patient!"
This is how I feel too. I'm hoping I have these slotted somewhere, but I don't think I did.
OK, and for arguments sake, what if they are viewed by the Devs as ... , "by next month you won't be wanting this , you'll be wanting something else " ?
'Cuz that's pretty much what came out of Taco, when ppl were asking last year for a bridge for the Risian liner that we could see from the outside of the ship .
... we already had a tweet from Zero about certain Devs thinking that the missions that were removed were "s#it" , and the tone of Taco's response above seems to project an idea that their players are a bit fickle , and only the new ship holds our interest for a limited time . This isn't a right vs wrong issue . Just a combination of perceptions and interests . Right now Cryptic has an interest to drum up their event ships as a "get'em while they're hot! " . You can choose to play along or not ...
Had to add this to my sig!!:D:D
Bridges and ships are not remotely the same thing. Although it is interesting the Breen bridge exists but no Risian bridge.
I have characters flying 4 out of 5 of the seasonal event ships as their main ship, personally. I happen to like them myself and while they aren't for everyone and not even for every character, one of the things you can do is switch between ships for some change of scenery and maybe experiment with it (much more palatable to do pre-DR though thanks to the upgrade nonsense now).
I feel very bad for people who won't be able to get them. The expectation was there, being able to get the old ships the next year. Changing it before letting people meet that expectation this year is just bad form, something Cryptic seems to do a lot lately. It does sour the event, and I'm sure there will be a lot of surprised and very disappointed people on Risa this year, given that most people don't read the forums or the articles even.
Actually... not ENTIRELY accurate. When they released the Patrol Escort Refit, they retired the old Fleet Patrol Escort in favor of the new Fleet Patrol Escort Refit. The old FPE had the BOff layout of the Advanced Escort, while the new one I believe has one more like the Patrol Escort Refit and has the fused tailgun.
Also... the non fleet variant Ambassador and Kamarag Retrofits are not available.
Anyways... retiring the old T5 Risian ships might be because everyone is going to want the shiny T6 stuff instead of the "inferior" T5/T5U ships.
I'm aware of the Fleet Escort being retired, that was the precedent that was set. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now. When I say "recent", it's meant to be relative.
There is a major difference, however. The Patrol Escort still survives in the form of the Tempest -- the Risian Corvette and Cruiser are actually gone entirely unless you got them already.
Kill the pearls - fine. If you want the new ship you will need to get 1000 of the new currency this year for it, too. That = more participation. Why is this not desirable?
I was very much hoping for a pilot corvette. The old Risian ships are actually pretty good. The Kobali is slightly better than the luxury cruiser, but both Risian ships do just fine. In fact the special console from last year is extremely powerful.
I have no interest whatsoever in a Ferengi cruiser. If it was a pilot ship ok, but not another large ship. I would have to assume this will mean a sale on pilot ships and or a T6 defiant. If so, then okay
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Who knows they might just add old Event-Ships to the Lobi Store, further down the road ...
... considering ...
It really is a shame they killed off those ships like that.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
agree
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but quite frankly, I'm still a little confused and irritated. Even though, I do understand we are playing in a "sandbox" that isn't our own, that's just how these games go.
There probably is a place in the game for special limited time ships, it's just
(A) confusing to see this whole deal announced right before the event, you take away stuff right before the event? really? right before? why not next year? give fair warning, that makes a whole lot more sense to me.
and (B) The new art is nice, essential even. But I'd like to see bug fixes more than that. Not that the art isn't great, it's great, but those are just my priorities. Which is in conflict with how things are in this game, it seems.
EDIT: /done (posting about this, I hope)
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
If you already earned the (old) Risian Ships there is supposed to be an "Account-Unlock-Store" soon-ish ... but considering the New Blog still states the 40 Pearl Discount for the (new) Risian / Ferengi - Ship ... it's probably "not that soon" ...
PS : I'm getting some kind of mixed message here ... wait for the Account-Unlock ... or "grind" 40 Pearls on each Toon ...
I already have the cruiser and raider, but I was really looking forward to the carrier
If this means I can't get the carrier this year, I'm going to be devastated
Or you know, Crypdick could realize this idea wasn't well thought out at all and rescind it.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
so your answer to not getting old ships is to not bother getting new ships either, I fail to see the logic in this and if you think this will bother cryptic think again, the only person you will hurt is yourself.
of course if you can get every other player to boycott the event too you might stand a chance but I don't think you have much hope of that.
they are not removing the ships completely from the game, anyone who has the ships can still use them whenever they please, all they are removing is players ability to get the ships, most on line games offer special one time items like this, if you fail to get them when they are available you will never get them, I have experienced this in many on line games its nothing new.
also let me remind you they never offered past ships to players during the anniversary event if you did not get them that year you would not get them ever.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
The ship was not deleted forever.
Players that have it still can use it.
That why it's overblown. The ship is not deleted from the game and no one ever can use it anymore. It's right there, in my ship selection list, I can fly it if I want, and so can countless of other players.
And Star Trek Online is not the only game with unique or time limited rewards. Star Wars for example as PvP Seasonal rewards that are unique - and worse, not everyone can even qualify for them, since the rewards are based on your ranking.
its says in the original post you only need to get the ship on one character then it automatically unlocks on all your others and for any future characters you might make.
yet to see how this works and whether its a permanent unlock or a one time claim, be sweet if its permanent so you can delete event ships if your tight on space and claim them back later.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Could have sworn it said 40 Vouchers in the "original" post ... maybe another Edit ... but nvm ...
All the other complaints I don't understand. Those are event ships. When you aren't around for the event you don't get them. I don't get a certain concert bracelet or whatever if I don't visit the concert either. In future events there will be other and probably better ships.
They should have made them tradeable on the exchange, though. That doesn't work anymore now they turn then into reclaimable account unlocks, but being able to sell the boxed event ships would have worked (I can buy old concert shirts and stuff after all on ebay).
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I dont understand the statement of wasted art either. Nothing is wasted, like you cant get Bulwark or JHAS now, those ships are only available for those who already have the ships.
On the other note, this time we are getting ferengi, not risian ship. And it is called warship so if I am not mistaken it should have 8 weapons and destroyer ship mastery package. Furthermore, because it is ferengi ship it will maybe not have set bonuses with previous consoles from risian ships in which case you will not miss on this either.